Education Needed about #7 Hand Plane

[Rich Riddle]

Please enlighten a power tool addict about the #7 hand plane. After a recent purchase of a Veritas #4, I now find the desire for a few more planes. A #5 and low angle plane likely comprise the list after the #7. I currently own a LN rabbet block plane, a LN medium shoulder plane, a Veritas #4 and a couple old junkers. This spring will see a new work bench produced and a #7 seems appropriate for the bench top project.

What #7 do you folks recommend? The only one eliminated is Wood River because they don't "fit my hand" well for some reason. Or perhaps I just don't like the way they feel. Do you recommend a new plane or an older one? I have been trying to read about older Record planes but haven't found much information about them. Were they as good as the Stanley models? Any insights you offer will be appreciated.

I am likely the only "power tool" woodworker who buys a couple of hand planes and then starts buying more of them. It's almost like the draw of the "dark side."

[Maurice Ungaro]

Rich, welcome down the slippery slope! As for the #5 and a low angle, you can combine that into one plane with either the LN 62 or the LV Low Angle Jack. I have the LV version and really lik it a lot. Jointer planes are numerous. I just sold my first one (which in fact, I bought to flatten my bench top ....about 10 years ago) - a Record #7. I had replaced the original blade woth a Hock, and it performed like a dream. THere are plenty good older planes that need a home. Stanley Bedrocks are sought after, but the Bailey style works just as good. I aquired a LV Bevel Up Jointer, simply because I was collecting the others, and it makes it possible to swap blades from one to another. I'm sure you'll get plenty of opinions on jointers, even some for the woodies, which work extremely well too.

[paul cottingham]

I have a LV bevel up jointer, and its a fantastic piece of kit. I agree with Maurice, get a low angle jack, it is a great all purpose plane. I use mine all the time. In fact, with a full set of blades, it could be all you ever need. (Just kidding, planes are like peanuts....)

[Rich Riddle]

Very glad you two responded. Before the two of you responded, both a low angle and number five were on the menu. The quality of the Veritas proves similar to LN on the planes in the garage. You both indicated you prefer the Veritas to the LN in low angle plane. Does the Veritas offer the same multiple blade ability of the LN 62? Or did you mean you had the bevel up #7 jointer that Veritas produces? Thanks.

[Maurice Ungaro]

Rich, the LV LA Jack, BU Smoother and BU Jointer all use the same iron/blade. That's part of the rason it's nice to have the combo and a few extra blades ground to different bevels. The LN blade only works on the LN (though you can have multiple blades for it too. They just don't have planes that can swap blades like the LN offering).

[Bryan Robinson]

I tried the LN #8 at a LN event and it was unbelievable. I also have an old Stanley #7, but use the #8 all the time and recommend it.

[Joe Bailey]

I am likely the only "power tool" woodworker who buys a couple of hand planes and then starts buying more of them. It's almost like the draw of the "dark side."

Trust me, you are far from the only (or first) power tool guy to buy a plane, and then another, and then ...

Why do you think it's affectionately called "the slippery slope?"


My two cents on the plane question: why overthink it? the Stanley/Bailey No 7 is readily available, works like a champ, and has a huge, readily available supply of upgrade & replacement parts.

[Judson Green]

Trust me, you are far from the only (or first) power tool guy to buy a plane, and then another, and then ...

Why do you think it's affectionately called "the slippery slope?"


My two cents on the plane question: why overthink it? the Stanley/Bailey No 7 is readily available, works like a champ, and has a huge, readily available supply of upgrade & replacement parts.


^^^What he said^^^

Spring is right around the corner. Yard sales, flea markets. The classified here, that auction site, your local cl.

gloat alert- I got my 7 last summer for ~$6.

[paul cottingham]

Very glad you two responded. Before the two of you responded, both a low angle and number five were on the menu. The quality of the Veritas proves similar to LN on the planes in the garage. You both indicated you prefer the Veritas to the LN in low angle plane. Does the Veritas offer the same multiple blade ability of the LN 62? Or did you mean you had the bevel up #7 jointer that Veritas produces? Thanks.

I use the same blades on my low angle jack, my bevel up smoother, and my bevel up jointer. All three can use the same blade, so I have a toothed blade, a 25 degree, 38 degree, and 50 degree blades. Works great.

[Michael Peet]

Hi Rich,

I have a LN #7 and like it a lot. I originally got it for my own workbench project but now I use it for literally 95% of my planing tasks. You can't go wrong with it but different strokes for different folks and all that.

Best of luck with your decision!

Mike

[Steve Friedman]

Rich,

I have had 5 jointers and they were all great, but different:

L-N #7 - My favorite bench plane of all time. Not too heavy, not too light, and does everything I have ever asked of it. Can be used aggressively or used to take fluffy shavings.

L-N #8 - Nothing else quite like it, but it is HEAVY. The weight helps sometimes, but sometimes I just get exhausted thinking about using it.

Vintage #7 - It was a great plane (flattened by Tablesaw Tom Bussey), but I sold it because I really prefer the extra weight and tight adjuster of the L-N#7.

Veritas BU Jointer - A great plane, but I don't think it replaces the #7. But, you can't do better than the PM-VII iron and I love the fact that you can get a fence for this plane. It is the first plane I grab because I know the blade will always be sharp. But, I still like my #7 more.

ECE Primus Try Plane - I rarely use this, but it's a great plane and can be purchased used very reasonably. The adjuster is a bit weird, but the plane has great mass, but is very light. It's a great plane to use when you need to use it for a long time. I have debated selling this one too because it's kind of redundant, but have been too lazy to do anything about it.

If I were to only own one, it would definitely be a #7. If it's flat and sharp it will quickly become a favorite.

Steve

Edit to add: Was typing when Mike posted. I obviously agree with him.

[David Weaver]

The LN 7 is the best jointer plane I have seen of the metal variety. I'm not convinced that they make the adjuster yoke different for the 8, because the iron is thicker and I had an 8 and a 7 at one time, and the 8 had backlash unlike any LN I've used before.

I don't use the LN now, though, I use a basic stock millers falls jointer if I'm going to use a metal jointer. I just like the feel of the vintage planes better now, and I like that the old stock irons work well with natural stones. Proper use of the cap iron eliminates issues that would've made me prefer the LN several years ago.

[Jim R Edwards]

My favorite #7 is Clifton. It is a bedrock designed plane that is built like a tank. It is a heavy plane that works great for flattening tops but some people prefer a light plane for this task. If you prefer a lighter plane I would recommend a LN #7 1/2 low angle jointer. It's lightweight and the distance between the handles is greater than a bevel down #7 and 8 which I find more comfortable.

[Kees Heiden]

When you get a vintage Stanley, make sure that the sole is flat. Flattening these long ones is a bitch.

[Graham Haydon]

What Kees said, eye the sole or buy from reputable sellers. You might fancy trying a wooden Try, if the soles is bent on that it's moments to resolve.

[Jim Foster]

I have a Record #7 from the mid to late 90's I use all the time. It's flat, but needed some filing on the side of the mouth. It's not the quality of the LN #8 I have, but, it works just as well. I also bought a LV blade for it. If I want thin shavings from it, I can get consistant shavings on the order of .0015-.002 easily in Q-Sawn White Oak, so it will give a pretty wide range of capability. I have bought some used Bailey's that work great, so if you can check for flatness and other potential problems, I would not hesitate to get a used plane for the right price

[Frederick Skelly]

Trust me, you are far from the only (or first) power tool guy to buy a plane, and then another, and then ...

Why do you think it's affectionately called "the slippery slope?"

+2. Note my signature line.

I love my LV BU Jointer (#7). Plan to use it to (finally) finish flattening my bench this weekend.

Also have a 6, 5, 4 and a 3. But I think Im near the bottom of the slope - i just need that LA Jack. And that LV Shooting Plane. And a Plough. And ... ;)

You guys have a good weekend.
Fred

[Jim Matthews]

Buy from Tom Hussey, right here in the Creek.

His rehabs are better than stock, and ready to work.
FWIW - I rarely use a jointer for surfaces, mostly for truing edges.

The wood body planes are my favorites, as they're easier to pull.
Big boards on edge can perch up too high on my bench to manipulate something so heavy as the #8.

What's one of these weigh? Ten pounds, anyway.

I get 80% of the way to flat with a #4 and a well marked out line.

This is one of those tools I think should be rented out with any bench building kit.
That was the only time I really needed one, and rarely since.

I would buy a 5 1/2 or 6 before I purchased something like these large jointers, which I consider luxury items.

[Jim Koepke]

Rich,

It seems there are many choices to run through here.

My preference is old Stanley/Bailey planes. My accumulation of old Stanley/Bailey planes is rather extensive. Only one of my bench planes cost me more than $50. Without that one, a #2, my whole pile of bench planes cost wouldn't add up to the cost of a few new LV or LN planes.

I have always been able to find time easier than finding money. I do not envy those with a reversed situation.

Here is the story of my current #7:

http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?114373-Fettling-A-Plane-from-Junker-to-Jointer

You mention the Wood River plane not feeling right in your hands. To me this is a very important part of the tools in my shop. Many a tote/handle has been modified to fit my hand comfortably. A little wood removal here and there makes for a more pleasing experience.

If at all possible get to a tool event so you can handle the plane(s) you are considering. You may even live close to someone who might be willing to let you have a test drive of their planes.

Before you pull the trigger on an oldie there is much to consider. Even if you get to check the plane before purchasing there may be issues that are unseen. Others have mentioned their issues with "depth adjuster backlash." There is not a single Stanley plane in my shop that does not have the adjuster slop from a half turn to as many as three or four revolutions before engaging when changing blade setting direction. For some, this is an annoyance with which they will not or can not abide. For me it is just a few seconds of reflection on what is being done.

The #7 uses the same 2-3/8" blade as the #4-1/2, #6 and the later #5-1/2 size planes. The #8 uses a 2-5/8" blade. (Early #5-1/2 planes use a 2-1/4" blade.)

The LV set up with the smoother, Jack and jointer all using the same size, 2-1/4" blade does have advantages that many praise.

Bevel up or bevel down doesn't make a lot of difference to me. I do feel a smoother surface is left by a plane with a cap iron. Please note that is just my feeling and may be a misconception.

A lower angle of attack available with some bevel up planes does require less effort to make shavings. That is why I bought a Low Angle Bevel Up Jack (LN #62) to use on my shooting board.

For many the three bench plane solution works. This is having a #4, 5 & 7 to do all the work of hand planes.

If one is always working from full size stock, this may work fine. For me having a full arsenal for working from lumber yard material to a tree felled in my back yard is more my style.

As to your question about Record, They made good planes. Just like Stanley there was a time when the quality may have suffered from cost cutting brought on by corporate/marketing considerations.

jtk

[steven c newman]

Lets see, HAD a Stanley T-9, #8c for about a year. Was way too heavy to lift up onto an edge. Did a nice job when I tapered legs, though. Seemed to be a bit too WIDE to try to keep on the edge of a board.

Sold the #8. Went out and picked up an OLD Stanley #31. Weighs about half. Iron was just a 2-3/8" wide one, about the same as a #7's. At 24" long, still a nice long plane.

Currently use it to joint edges.

Face smoothing is the realm of a DE6c small jointer. At 18" long, it does a decent job on panels.

Still have way too many #5s......

[Andy kerra]

I am a recent convert as well. Started with a number 4 I received as a gift and enjoyed working with it (and was impressed with how much it could do) I decided to ride the slope down.

Second plane was was a no 7. I went back and forth bt a vintage stanley and a new LN. In the end I couldn't justify the price tag on the LN. I got a good liking mid-40s stanley that was lovingly cared for, added a LV blade and chip breaker and it runs like a dream with very very little tlc. I can open it up to take big slices or have it tuned in to take full blade length wisps. I have not doubt the LN is fantastic but at 1/3 the cost and impeccable performance I am good with the Stanley.

That said, it took a lot of ebay patience to get the right one too.

[Winton Applegate]

I have answered that one many times in forums. I have come to realize there are two (or more) mentalities and you might want to examine to determine which you are.
For instance we have a customer, I suspect he is quite well to do. He drives to our business in an immaculate old Datson pick up. Must be from the late seventies or eighties.
I suspect he uses it because he bought it, took care of it and it does the job he needs it to do so why buy the latest, biggest, dieselest.

Then there is the person/guy who "needs" the latest, biggest, dieselest because he likes to look at it.
I guess that's alright too, unless you are trying to breath and work around the thing.

Here is my first hand experience and what I came to realize :
I have both a big O" LN #7 bevel down
A big O' LV bevel up jointer
I like looking at them (and they don't stink like a diesel so I am going to keep them).

What I recommend is :
Use your jack when you get it.
Buy one of these with the money you would spend on the jointer
http://www.amazon.com/Starrett-380-48-48-Inch-Steel-Straight/dp/B0006J4H36/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1393807010&sr=8-2&keywords=Starrett+48+inch

A larger one is too heavy and this length is long enough to get the job done.
I have one.
Plane where it shows high spots. Once you get the bench ever so slightly hollow then plane the perimeter until you get almost no significant light showing under the straight edge.
Make and use two or better yet three winding sticks that reach all the way across your bench the short way. As you flatten use them to take readings on the top to get the wind (twist) out of the top surface.
You would need the straight edge anyway and winding sticks even with the jointers and you can make the top easily without the jointers if you have the straight edge.

If you like looking at the big plane(s) or maybe you are going to joint a whole truck load of long boards, then maybe get the jointers but you don't NEED one to flatten a bench or normal cabinets.

[Winton Applegate]

Hey Rich,
How about some eye candy ?
The price lends perspective as well. $10,000 yeah ten K
http://i801.photobucket.com/albums/yy298/noydb1/jointerplane_zpsb36c4e81.jpg (http://s801.photobucket.com/user/noydb1/media/jointerplane_zpsb36c4e81.jpg.html)