LA block plane: useless or indispensable

[Daniel Rode]

I've vacillated deciding wether to get a decent low angle block plane or just skip it.

I hear some people say it's one their most used tools and they wouldn't be without one. Others say it's totally unnecessary and everything can be done just as well with a chisel or a smoothing plane.

Mine only block plane is a cheap "contractor grade" Stanley. The iron is at a standard angle and it has the adjustable mouth. Despite some fettling, It doesn't work well. The iron can't be adjusted properly to take an thin even cut. As a result, it mostly sits and collects dust. If I ever buy one, it will be of good quality and mostly likely a LA.

I'm just not sure what I'd use it for? What do you do with yours?

[Christopher Charles]

I have the LN low angle and it's one of my favorite and most used. It was the first really good plane I bought and was a bit of a gateway, thus possibly contributing to my fondness. Use for all sorts of tasks--end grain, easing edges, and other little tasks.

C

[Jim Koepke]

"contractor grade" Stanley

To me "contractor grade" means it is for use on wood that will be covered by sheet rock, putty and paint.

My LA blocks get used all the time. They are most useful for trimming end grain. Very useful for rounding corners. If you do any convex curved work they also help there.

jtk

[phil harold]

What are you doing with it

When i did carpentry the block plane was indispensable

in the shop I use other planes

[Judson Green]

What are you doing with it

When i did carpentry the block plane was indispensable

in the shop I use other planes


+1

I've got a few block planes and never seem to use them, but when I do its usually a LN LA 102.

[Steve Rozmiarek]

I use mine a lot. My favorite is nothing fancy, an old Stanley 65.

[Andrew Bell]

Usage depends on situation, often many think the best tool to use is the on hand. The block plane fits into a pocket and can always be there; so becomes the swiss army knife of the plane world. Other woodworkers, with a well setup shop or who are prepared to walk to wherever their planes are stored, will probably grab the most appropriate plane for the job at hand.

Depending on what I'm doing and where I am the LA block plane is used a lot or not at all.

[Jim Koepke]

Mine only block plane is a cheap "contractor grade" Stanley. The iron is at a standard angle and it has the adjustable mouth. Despite some fettling, It doesn't work well. The iron can't be adjusted properly to take an thin even cut.

Dan,

Have you checked this thread?

http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?123401-Fettle-to-the-Metal-With-LA-Blocks&p=1246005#post1246005

Some of the information may be helpful with the plane you have, especially this post:

http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?123401-Fettle-to-the-Metal-With-LA-Blocks&p=1682217#post1682217

Let me know if there is any other way I can help.

jtk

[Chris Griggs]

Neither useless nor indispensable to me.

But very nice to have for certain tasks. I could very easily live without anyway, but at the same time I wouldn't mind having another.

Mine is the LV LA block (older style not dx 60). I'll use it anytime I want to do something quickly using in one hand...usually this a small chamfer/knocking off a sharp corner. I also use it anywhere I want a of control over an angle....so if I'm making a larger chamfer I'll use it 2 handed and its small size makes it very easy to maintain the angle while taking heavy cuts. I also use it to flush up endgrain in dovetails an such....the small size lets me easily attack the end grain at a skew and hog it down quick before finishing with a finely set 3 or 4. I'll also use it to square up endgrain on piece that won't do well on the shooting board...again because its easy to use at a skew and also keep square on the end grain. It can be nice for small localized smoothing tasks too, but really I tend to use a block as a somewhat coarse tool before finshing with my SBUS or a no 4,as it lets me waste small things down quickly whilst maintaining a lot of control, and also lets me leave my finer set tools sharp and well, setup finely.

[Frederick Skelly]

I have the same Stanley block as you mentioned. It was my first plane. I fettled it into an acceptable tool. Its sharp, flat and big (relatively speaking). I bought an LN LA block and I use it constantly because its small, light and maneuverable. I use it for camphering edges on amost every project. I use it to fit doors and to correct small uneven spots with glued-on trim. I use it on end grain because the low angle gives me a better cut. The Stanley will do all that, but I reach for the LN almost automatically. It gets into places the Stanley wont reach, too.

YMMV of course.

Fred

[Jim Matthews]

I think the total included cutting angle of the blade makes more difference than the bevel position.

I like a cutting angle slightly more than 45 degrees, with a "blade pitch" of around 30 degrees (I hone freehand, that's what I get most of the time).
http://www.hntgordon.com.au/newsletterbladeangles.htm
http://virginiatoolworks.wordpress.com/2013/02/16/sharpening-angles-for-bench-block-planes/

If you have an iron, bevel up - with a very steep bevel, it acts more as a scraper as the cutting angle approaches 90 degrees.

I would suggest two things to try, with your existing plane;

Strop with chromium oxide on a piece of hardboard, leather or cardboard after your last polishing step.
Adjust the blade with a small hammer, rather than the screw mechanism on the plane.
(If you have a small piece of hardwood, or the handle end of a hammer try that first. Steel on cast iron isn't a good practice.)


The thread pitch is likely too coarse to make fine adjustments.

Light taps on the back of the plane body should retract the blade (inertia is your friend).

If a finer edge and more delicate depth settings don't produce satisfaction,
buy one of Steve Voigt's new "mini smoother" planes.

It will do everything a standard block plane can, and more.

[David Weaver]

If you use one, then no shame in having a good one. I don't generally use one.

[george wilson]

Most of my life as a guitar maker,my only plane was a Stanley low angle block plane. I did not even have others until I came to the museum,and had the budget to buy others.

[Jim Leslie]

I have the LV skew angle and an LN 102. They both work well though the 102 is suited to the smaller work which is what I do the most. They do get used enough for the kind of work that I do and I wouldn't want to be without them.

[Chris Griggs]

...and how many do you have now George? :)

...and who has more George or Derek?

...on that note, hey Derek, hows that compendium of block planes (http://www.inthewoodshop.com/ToolReviews/ACompendiumofBlockPlanes.html) coming [snicker]

[Derek Cohen]

You mean these, Chris ..

http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a262/Derek50/Planes/Block%20planes/Blockplanes-all1.jpg

One day I shall find the time to catalogue and describe all these block planes ....

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Sean Hughto]

FWIW, I have two block planes I find I reach for a good deal:

LV's block with the chamfer guide

and the LN rabbet block

Both are handy in my methods of work.

[Chris Griggs]

You mean these, Chris ..

http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a262/Derek50/Planes/Block%20planes/Blockplanes-all1.jpg

One day I shall find the time to catalogue and describe all these block planes ....

Regards from Perth

Derek

hehe, those are them. We'll at least you've got the most important one, THE ORANGE BLOCK PLANE, covered. I doubt there's much interest in any of the others anyway :).


That photo just reminded me how much I love my little victor. I still can't believe how much I use that thing. I think it is one of the coolest things Leonard Bailey ever designed...so simple, elegant and effective. Genius!

[Prashun Patel]

The block plane's real name might should have been 'jack plane'.

Only YOU can determine if you love it or don't need it. I love mine for its versatility. I use mine sometimes for convex curve fairing - where a spokeshave might follow imperfections too perfectly.

I suggest you buy a good one from Veritas or LN (I'm partial to the smaller, fixed mouth ones because they are smaller and lighter and more differentiated from their larger bench brothers.) Keep it in good condition and if you don't like it after a year, you'll likely get close to retail for it on the aftermarket.

[John Coloccia]

283389

Stay sharp, my friends.

[Daniel Rode]

Holy cow. Welcome to the international block plane museum...

You mean these, Chris ..


...

Derek

[Daniel Rode]

I've looked at the LN rabbet block plane a few times. Where do you use it most? Also, do you ever catch a finger on the iron while using it?

FWIW, I have two block planes I find I reach for a good deal:

LV's block with the chamfer guide

and the LN rabbet block

Both are handy in my methods of work.

[Sean Hughto]

Well it can do everything a regular block plane can do - break edges, help in door and drawer fitting, do bench plane style tasks for small and miniature work, etc., but it can also do all the rabbet tricks from making and cleaning rabbets to working right up to raised fields on the bevels of door panels, and on and on.

I've never caught a finger on it or had it hurt me in any way. Most nicks and dings I get in the shop are from the corners on pieces of wood. The tool that slices me from time to time is LN chisels - the long edges are not broken when new, so those 90 degree edges running down the sides are pretty darn sharp.

[Chris Griggs]

It (the LN rabbet block) is pretty darn handy. I've been on the fence about it forever, but I must say I took a pretty strong liking to my friend Paul's when we were working on my tail vise. I used it to smooth out the notch for the tail vise in the bench top...it was really nice for getting all the way into the corner of the notch, and its width made it easier than a narrower rabbet plane to keep the entire interior surface of the recess true. I used it pretty heavily and didn't cut myself at all (and I'm pretty prone to cutting myself in general)...I've seen a lot folks say they do..maybe it depends on how one naturally grips a block plane, but I didn't feel like I was going to cut myself. Still not totally off the fence in deciding if I want one for myself, but it is a pretty darn handy tool and I felt quite comfortable to use. I can't imagine you wouldn't like it.

[Brian Holcombe]

I've gotten myself pretty good with a shoulder plane on the side, I was a proud wearer of the dunce cap for that one. I have a large variety of projects that I do, because on top of building furniture I'll end up building frames, or doing carpentry projects in the house. So it's not a bad idea to have some staples on hand even if you do not expect to get a lot of use out of them right away.

[Tom Vanzant]

I use a Stanley 60-1/2 exclusively on edges. One pass with fine-set iron for a sharp edge that doesn't cut you. A heavier-set iron for a bevel. I sometimes take a pass or two to remove the sharp edges from a bevel, leaving a 3-facet edge that looks/feels crisper than a sanded radius.

[steven c newman]

Lets see, a #110 for rough work, and a non-descript clone that is just a little smaller. Two 9-1/2 blocks, and a #103 SW block plane. Been trying to rehab a #18-1/4, but sending it out instead. Don't have the tap& dies needed. I get more work done with the #3 sized planes, and the 5-1/4 one as well.

[Andy Cree]

John Coloccia - that was funny!!!!

I, too, could not live without a LA block plane. I have an old Miller Falls with a Hock blade that I use for everything.

Andy

[Chris Griggs]

John Coloccia - that was funny!!!!



+1...that made me happy!

[Derek Cohen]

The two block planes I would single out are the LV NX60, as the all time best design ...

http://www.inthewoodshop.com/ToolReviews/VeritasPremiumBlockPlane_html_90cc2e5.jpg

... and the LN #103, which is a terrific small block plane for one-handed work ...

http://www.highlandwoodworking.com/ProductImages/handplanes/034206.jpg

I built a few block planes to demonstrate plane making at a LN Tool Event last year, gave all away except one, which I really enjoy using. No larger than the LV, it is BD with a 38 degree bed.

http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a262/Derek50/Planes/My%20planes/BlockPlane1_zps650966a0.jpg

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Brian Thornock]

I've got four block planes: #18, #65, LV LA, and some really tiny non-descript thing. I love the LV LA. I got it after struggling for far too long with a cheap craftsman. Best money I've spent. I would highly recommend it, but then again, I do plenty of stuff where it is nice to have. I picked up the 18 at a flea market and the 65 on the bay, each around $20. I like low angle because you can have different attack angles with a single unit.

[Stew Hagerty]

I love using a block plane, especially a LA one. IMHO a low-angle block plane is one of the most essential planes you could have. I highly recommend the Lee Valley Low-Angle Block Plane:

http://www.leevalley.com/US/Wood/pag...=1,41182,48942 (http://www.leevalley.com/US/Wood/page.aspx?p=47881&cat=1,41182,48942)

I added their optional Knob & Large Tote and I absolutely love it:

http://www.leevalley.com/US/Wood/pag...=1,41182,48942 (http://www.leevalley.com/US/Wood/page.aspx?p=41715&cat=1,41182,48942)

I also picked up the optional Chamfer Guide for it and I'm very glad that I did:

http://www.leevalley.com/US/Wood/pag...=1,41182,48942 (http://www.leevalley.com/US/Wood/page.aspx?p=46296&cat=1,41182,48942)

In Action:

http://www.leevalley.com/US/Home/VideoPopup.aspx?v=129


Good luck and happy shavings.

[Warren Mickley]

Thirty eight years ago I was planing end grain maple with a block plane. My right hand was cramping, my fingers hurting, and I thought "something is wrong here. Nobody put up with this trouble in the 18th century." I never used it again.

I think the block plane was developed for carpenters to carry around in their aprons to do little trimming jobs. It is useful for many people, but certainly not essential for bench work.

It seems as if every month I read on a forum about someone on a "limited budget" who has a router plane or a shoulder plane and wants to know if they can use these to make rabbets or grooves. I would not suggest buying a block plane ahead of a plough or a moving fillister.

[David Weaver]

Warren, your thoughts are the same as mine. I dumped all of my LA planes (but confess I did buy a stanley 65 after the fact for novelty, and haven't used it) when I planed end grain on a panel with one of the asian made continental smoothers. It was far easier than any block plane, far more capable of quickly removing material to a marking line, and smoother and easier across the end grain than the LA jack that I had bought (probably because of the slickness of the bottom). A #4 works just about as well.

that spelled the end of my use of any LA planes, but I literally can't think of anything that I'd do with a block plane that I can't do with any other. Getting them away from end grain and using a standard bench plane to size panels to a marked line was one of the more comfortable moves (in terms of how much my hands hurt working wood) that I've made in the last five years.

Setting aside a shoulder plane in situations where it shouldn't be used was another one.

[Mike Henderson]

I've looked at the LN rabbet block plane a few times. Where do you use it most? Also, do you ever catch a finger on the iron while using it?
I have. Not only that, but the blade exposed on the side can damage work sometimes. I thought I could use it as a regular block plane but it's not very good for that.

Mike

[Mike Henderson]

I use mine a lot. My favorite is nothing fancy, an old Stanley 65.

Mine, too. I put a modern iron in it and it works great. I have a bunch of block planes that I've accumulated over time but the 65 is the one I reach for.

Mike

[glenn bradley]

I imagine this one will get a wide range of responses. I'm on the smaller side and using my LV low angle block plane one-handed did not breed confidence. I would often rest my thumb lightly on the front knob and my control would increase dramatically. I really wanted a one-handed plane for knocking off corners, quick fitting a panel or whatever. I bought the LV apron plane (http://www.leevalley.com/US/wood/page.aspx?p=46791&cat=1,41182,41189,46791)and despite the absence of an adjustable mouth, really like it. I added a knob and ball-tail (http://www.leevalley.com/US/wood/page.aspx?p=41715&cat=1,41182,41189&ap=1)to my low angle block and use it like one might use a #3.

[george wilson]

I'd have to count my block planes. Have the NX60 and the LN low angle,a LN rabbet block plane,the usual Stanley low angle and maybe a few more. More that I need!

[steven c newman]

Last count, I had six block planes, including this little guy283430a Stanley SW #103. Still has a few walnut shavings in it. Seems to do an alright job, for a $1 plane....

[Brian Ashton]

You mean these, Chris ..

http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a262/Derek50/Planes/Block%20planes/Blockplanes-all1.jpg

One day I shall find the time to catalogue and describe all these block planes ....

Regards from Perth

Derek


You really need to catalogue your stuff mate. If you cark it your wife is gonna want to kill you if she's left to figure it all out. You're a physiologist aren't you. What's your definition of an obsession and/or hoarder ;-).

Hey if you put wheels on all of them and bought some old OH scale rails you could have a chop chop (block block) train

[Derek Cohen]

Brian

If I cark it before my wife, I am nominating you to catalogue all my tools. :)

I actually do not own most of those block planes. Many of them are on indefinite loan for the review. They are packed away and awaiting a day or two when I am free ... and have been so for about 5 years now :o !!

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Adam Petersen]

But this doesn't answer my question!?!?! CAN I make rabbets with the router plane?

[Jim Koepke]

But this doesn't answer my question!?!?! CAN I make rabbets with the router plane?

It is possible, but there are much easier ways.

jtk

[Sean Hughto]

yes.

http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3086/3124503308_2e8aacbe93_z.jpg?zz=1

[Adam Petersen]

Well, I was being facetious, but now I just feel silly....

[Zach Dillinger]

Useless or indispensable? Neither.

[Dave Proper]

Overheard at Block Planes Anonymous "I am Derek and I have a block plane problem".

[Winton Applegate]

Hey . . .,
Better late than never right ?
I am pretty darned opinionated about the little guys.

First I had the LOW angle LN block.
I tried and tried and tried to like it. It worked GREAT !
That was my first MAGICAL Bevel Up moment !
I was trying to plane purple heart with out tear out. The LN #4 bevel down was tearing out.
Bingo . . . the LN low angle with a steeper secondary bevel just made it business as usual. No big deal. (I later put the back bevel on the #4 and got good results but too much futz) (if I had ONLY KNOWN about the chip breaker steeper angle and micro setting of the CB I might have been saved from going down the dark and sinister Bevel Up alley) (it is tooooo late for me. Newbies SAVE YOUR SELVES ! ! ! Listen to David ! Don't do as I have done . . . ! ! ! ! Sigh . . . where was I ? ) . . . oh yah . . .
But
My hand was always fatigued and cramped up while using the LN LOW angle.
Finally I bought the HIGHER angle block, what is it ? 20 ° ? as opposed to 12 ° ?
anyway
That fixed it. After a year or two of fighting the LOW no more cramp and locked fingers. The HIGHER just balances better for me when doing a lot of planing with it.
I suppose for end grain work the LOW block is the hot ticket but for general all around work I prefer the 20 ° LN block.


I couldn't find the LOW block for the photo and as I remember, it has been like ten or more years now.
I . . .
are you ready for this ? It is one of the things that Woodcraft and LN really did right and I thank them for it . . .
I used the LOW block for all that time (a year or more) and as I recall I. . .
RETURNED IT ! No questions asked.
Wow
I was buying all my planes from them and quite a stable at that inclidinng a #7 LN BD and the big 'Ol LN Shoulder plane etc., so they made out alright from me. I spent LOTS of money, they treated me right. Win win right ?


Refering to this photo from left to right. You can tell the LOW from the HIGHER by looking at the hight of the blade adjust knobs .


http://i801.photobucket.com/albums/yy298/noydb1/IMG_2509_zps952b7134.jpg (http://s801.photobucket.com/user/noydb1/media/IMG_2509_zps952b7134.jpg.html)

In any case I exchanged the LN 12 ° for the LN 20 ° block (first plane in the photo) and really like it.
Then
I got all fascinated with the Varitas block, the round indentations in the sides and all.
Better adjuster (Norris). That is the plane fourth from left.
It is LOW (12 °)
It is a bit larger/wider. If you are going to get just one maybe get that one.
The LN is narrower and pretty cool to have though.
I decided some where along the line that if I was going have a LOW block it was going to have to do more tricks to make up for the finger fatigue. I now think that if my original Low LN block had the round divots on the sides like the Varitas then I might have done alright with it and kept it.
In any case I got the LN Rabbet Block (second from left)
http://www.lie-nielsen.com/block-planes/rabbet-block-plane-w/nicker/
This link is for the one with the nicker. As I recall, back then there was no choice for a nicker, or maybe my WC didn't stock them.
So in my photo that is the second one and you can see how much lower it is. Makes quite a difference in how you hold it.
In the photo I included my LN # 1 I use that one quite a bit but it doesn't really take the place of the block / it is more of a two handed tool. The blocks are useable one handed or two.
The fourth one over is the Varitas block. One of my all time favorite planes. A GREAT, GREAT TOOL !
And for fun I included a block that I found in my parents attic when I was clearing out the house for sale after they passed away.
Just an unfinished attic; trusses and all. Just found it sitting up there along with ONE old metal SPOKED truck wheel. ? ? ? ? I wonder what the story was with that ?
I have never used the old rusty block. It is just part of my plane collection.

So yah. Unless you are really good with a rock I would recommend getting a block, or three or four.

[Derek Cohen]

Hi Winton

Nice commentary. Your praise of the LV LA Block Plane reminded me to add a few explanations about the choice I made above, the LV NX60 and LN 103.

Choosing a block planes is somewhat like choosing a chisel - it is a very personal tool. Feel, balance and aesthetics will vary from user to user. Some even prefer a bench plane to do the tasks of a block plane. Whatever floats your boat.

Anyway, many years ago my go to block plane was a Stanley #65 knucklejoint with a LN blade. Wonderful plane. It eventually dawned on me that it was too wide for my taste, even though I have a largish paw. At that time my other block plane was a (small) LN 103, and I really like the way it nestled into my hand for use when, for example, breaking edges. The 103 is good for this task as it has a 20 degree bed for a 45 degree common angle cut.

I looked for an alternative to the #65, considered the LV LABP, and rejected it as it was the same size (width) as the #65. That would be going sideways to some extent. I tried, liked and purchased the LN 60 1/2 (low angle). This was the block plane I used for several years. It is a great size, I liked the heft in the small package, and it just works so well.

Some years later Lee Valley began developing the block plane that was to become the NX60 (nickel-resist ductile iron) and DX60 (ductile iron) versions. I was sent a pre-production plane to test, which later went back with a few recommendations (which were incorporated in the production version). While this plane literally took my breath away, as well as I finding the NX60 to be a perfect fit for my hand (it is the same size as the LN 60 1/2), it was during the course of examining it that I realised why the LABP was such a great design in its own right. (The features are continued into the NX/DX60).

It is only when you place the LN and the LV alongside one another and attempt to make adjustments to the blade that all becomes clear. In use there is no difference. They are all wonderful performers. However, the knurled knob that tightens/loosens the blade (before it can be adjusted) is very differently designed by each planemaker. The LN is tucked away under the handgrip and it is actually a bit of effort to get to. The LV is easy to adjust as the handhold is narrowed so that the knob sits proud of it.

http://www.inthewoodshop.com/ToolReviews/VeritasPremiumBlockPlane_html_m1fcfb842.jpg

The other feature is the way the mouth adjusts. This is much smoother and more intuitive on the LABP/NX60 than the LN 60 1/2. The former requires a twist of the knob to loosen and slide, while the latter uses the Stanley system of turning a lever. The lever tends to stick and adjustments become jerky.

http://www.inthewoodshop.com/ToolReviews/VeritasPremiumBlockPlane_html_7d112d9e.jpg

http://www.inthewoodshop.com/ToolReviews/VeritasPremiumBlockPlane_html_m779dd28d.jpg

What happened to my LN 60 1/2? I still have it and use it. It is a great plane notwithstanding these comments. And the LV NX60? I use that as well, perhaps more. It is a blast to use as it is so good on the eyes as well.

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Brian Ashton]

Brian

If I cark it before my wife, I am nominating you to catalogue all my tools. :)

I actually do not own most of those block planes. Many of them are on indefinite loan for the review. They are packed away and awaiting a day or two when I am free ... and have been so for about 5 years now :o !!

Regards from Perth

Derek


Well! If you're supplying the beer I'll be there next week to get the cataloguing started. I can set up a spreadsheet with future depreciation/collectability/value/inflation scenarios so if you've got 10 or 20 years... left in that tank she'll still be able to get good value for money.

Five years you've had them... I'd say that they're yours now.

I'm just in the process of cataloguing my stuff for a move a bit sooner than anticipated. It's hard to decide what to cut and sell and what to keep. Thankfully overseas shipping is on square foot basis rather than weight, so most will be going. The lathe alone weighs at least a 1000lbs.

[Michael Ray Smith]

Never useless, but whether it's indispensable depends on the other planes you have. The first plane I bought was a Lee Valley low angle block plane, and with the various accessories Lee Valley sells, it's still the most versatile plane I own. It's traditional wisdom that if you have only one plane it should be a jack plane, and that's probably true. But if I could have only two planes, they'd be the LV LA block plane and a jointer.

I have four blades for it -- three different angles and the toothed blade. Of those, the toothed blade gets the least amount of use, and I could do without it fairly easily, but I use the other three regularly. The chamfer attachment is great. I also have the tote and knob attachments; it took me a while to warm up to them, but now they stay attached almost all the time.