Drawers in an apron

[Adam Cruea]

I'm building my wife a craft table out of soft maple, and I'm trying to decide how to make the apron where two small through-drawers will go.

The table is approximately 60x30 inches wide, and the top apron on this is 3.75" tall and 1.75" deep (so roughly a 2x4).

Anyway, on the long sides are where I want to put the drawers. Now, I've though of several ways of doing this; I can just cut out the openings for the drawer fronts with a coping saw, or I can rip the top rail, bottom rail, and the spacers/dividers. If I cut all the parts out individually, well, that leaves the issue of grain directions. I'd prefer to keep the grain all going the same way so that I really don't have to worry about expansion, but then I start thinking that I would have end grain showing on the dividers.

To cut to the chase, I'm more worried about aesthetics than the joinery or function. Has anyone flush-face drawers with the facade of the cabinet grain all going the same way? Does it really look as minutely annoying as my brain is making it seem, or does it actually look decent?

[edit]I forgot to mention, the drawers will slide on hickory runners so that she can open them from either side of the table to get needed equipment (scissors, ribbon, whatever).

[Federico Mena Quintero]

Where would you have end grain showing? The way I'm visualizing it, you are going to rip the apron, cross-cut the middle of the sandwich, and reassemble.

[=============================]
[===][drawer][===][drawer][===]
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With that arrangement there is no end grain showing, unless I've got it wrong...

[Daniel Rode]

What I've done in the past is to start with a single board about 1/2" taller and 1/2" longer than the finished apron. Then I make 2 rip cuts along then entire length. The piece in the center is the size of my drawer faces. Then cross cut the drawers out of the center piece. Be sure to mark everything for location. Now clean up the remaining pieces and glue them back together. The drawer fronts are a perfect match to the apron.

[Jim Koepke]

Like Federico I do not see why end grain must show.

My thought on Daniel's method is to start with the piece for the apron longer and wider to make up for the drawer fronts.

This had me thinking:


the drawers will slide on hickory runners so that she can open them from either side of the table to get needed equipment (scissors, ribbon, whatever).

With a table about 30" wide setting the scissors in the drawer on one side and then trying to retrieve them from the same drawer on the other side will require pulling the drawer out all the way. For such a function this table will need a lot of clearance all around.

Though for storage of rolls of paper or cloth the long drawers may be ideal.

jtk

[george wilson]

From the title,I had thought your underwear had got mixed in with the apron in the laundry.:)

[Adam Cruea]

George> I actually did have that happen back when I worked fast food as a wee'er lad. Reaching in to pull out a pen to write and holding your boxers was quite the party trick for some customers. :eek:

All> The endgrains of drawer front and dividers would be side-by-side. Functionally, if one of the endgrains gets caught when the drawer is coming out, would that cause any issues? The way Federico has it is the way I was wanting to do it. So basically, it's not endgrain showing that I'm worried about, it's nipping the endgrain of the dividers (since it will be facing the drawer opening) and "ripping" a fiber of the wood accidentally that I'm worried about.

Daniel> That's what I was hoping for was an almost perfect match. Not the my wife will really care (she's honestly just thrilled that I'm willing to make something for her), but I do and I want it to be lasting.

Jim> My wife brought up the same issue, but that's why the hickory runners; they're durable, so if she has to slide the drawer really far out, hopefully it should be okay. The other option is that she can take her 10 pairs of scissors and sprinkle them in both drawers. :D

[Curt Putnam]

Try making it a solid piece with the drawer off/out cuts being the drawer fronts - so all the grain matches. :D

[Steve Jenkins]

If you are careful when you size the drawer the runner should bottom out in the groove before the end of the front hits.

[Daniel Rode]

George> The endgrains of drawer front and dividers would be side-by-side. Functionally, if one of the endgrains gets caught when the drawer is coming out, would that cause any issues? The way Federico has it is the way I was wanting to do it. So basically, it's not endgrain showing that I'm worried about, it's nipping the endgrain of the dividers (since it will be facing the drawer opening) and "ripping" a fiber of the wood accidentally that I'm worried about.

It shouldn't be a problem. I've never had an issue. Made properly, the side of the drawer face and the side of the divider should not touch. They would be about 1/32" apart on each side. Even if they do, it's not really any different from edge to edge or edge to end grain contact.

[Brian Holcombe]

Adam,

Is something like this what you're talking about?

http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c181/SpeedyGoomba/null_zpsf93d447c.jpg

[Jim Koepke]

All> The endgrains of drawer front and dividers would be side-by-side. Functionally, if one of the endgrains gets caught when the drawer is coming out, would that cause any issues? The way Federico has it is the way I was wanting to do it. So basically, it's not endgrain showing that I'm worried about, it's nipping the endgrain of the dividers (since it will be facing the drawer opening) and "ripping" a fiber of the wood accidentally that I'm worried about.

One way to avoid this would take a little extra wood and planning.

Cut the drawer face to spacer interface on a bevel. This way the drawer fronts will nest into the spacers.

Another way for straight cuts would be to put edge banding or cock beading around the drawer openings.

jtk

[lowell holmes]

Every time I see the header for this string, my thought is my aprons have pockets, not drawers. Then it hits me what your talking about.

:)

[Adam Cruea]

Adam,

Is something like this what you're talking about?

http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c181/SpeedyGoomba/null_zpsf93d447c.jpg

Very similar, yes.

Just think of taking a 2x4 that's 60 inches long, and cutting out two holes in it that are about 3 inches tall by 20 inches long, and using the pieces you cut out as the drawer fronts.

[Brian Holcombe]

Like a bandsaw box I assume?

[Adam Cruea]

Like a bandsaw box I assume?

Drawing a blank on "bandsaw box" here. . .

[Brian Holcombe]

Something to the effect of this;

283271

The drawers cut out of a single board.

[Federico Mena Quintero]

The endgrains of drawer front and dividers would be side-by-side. Functionally, if one of the endgrains gets caught when the drawer is coming out, would that cause any issues? The way Federico has it is the way I was wanting to do it. So basically, it's not endgrain showing that I'm worried about, it's nipping the endgrain of the dividers (since it will be facing the drawer opening) and "ripping" a fiber of the wood accidentally that I'm worried about.

Ah, I see. What I'd do is to make sure that the space between the guides above the runners is barely narrower than the space between the dividers, and pretty tight around the drawer itself.

[divider]|[drawer]|[divider]

The "|" are the guides glued on top of the runners. Basically, keep the drawer-to-guides tolerance really tight (it will make for a smoother-sliding drawer, anyway), and make sure that the guides are two hairs inside the space between the dividers. If the drawer is kept from sliding askew, it won't hit the dividers.

[Joe Bailey]

Every time I see the header for this string, my thought is my aprons have pockets, not drawers. Then it hits me what your talking about.

:)

OK - here's what I thought when I first read the subject header.

It sounds like something you'd tell someone who was upset -- "Don't get your drawers in an apron!"

[Jim Koepke]

Cut the drawer face to spacer interface on a bevel. This way the drawer fronts will nest into the spacers.

Another way for straight cuts would be to put edge banding or cock beading around the drawer openings.

DOH!!!

The first one will not work with through drawers.

The second one would work. If you could run a bead on the stretchers above and below the drawers then you would only need to set vertical pieces in the sides of the openings.

Some things seem right until you close your eyes and fall asleep thinking about them.

jtk

[Adam Cruea]

Some things seem right until you close your eyes and fall asleep thinking about them.

jtk

The story of my life, Jim. I'd had this whole thing figured out until I went to actually do it. I slept on it to make sure the design I was seeing was right. Lo and behold, when I woke up, I was questioning myself.

The big thing is that I want all the grain on the apron to match, but there's always going to be a saw kerf, so it's not possible to make it look like it's 1 piece of wood with the drawers punched out unless I were to cut out the drawer fronts with a coping saw, and even then, I'm not sure how I could get the openings square without being able to get planes and stuff in there.

[Tom Vanzant]

Adam, I think Federico's approach is the way to go...two rips + four CCs, clean up the edges and glue it up. If you use straight-grained boards (1 3/4"), the grain shift should be negligible, and trimming your drawer-fronts top and bottom evenly will keep it in line. The drawer guides will keep the drawer-fronts from dragging the dividers and rails. You might consider upper guides or kickers to prevent the drawer from tipping.
You didn't say what the unsupported span or drawer size will be, or what the tabletop loading will be...watch out for sagging/flexing in use.