fake RECI tube?

[Michael Arruda]

Hello all,

I've come to the conclusion it's not fiscally reasonable for me to get a new laser right now, so I'm looking at getting a new tube and making the best of the Redsail I currently have. I found this tube-

http://www.ebay.com/itm/60W-Water-Cool-Sealed-CO2-Laser-Tube-For-Engraving-Engraver-Cutter-Machine-120cm-/231126974073?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item35d03dbe79

Which is an interesting arrangement. It looks like an RECI tube, but the connection from the front collimator to the exciter internally at the front of the laser tube is attached with 2 metal strips, not the spiral of metal that I've seen on other RECI tubes. Even the sticker on the tube looks like an RECI sticker, but it's from afar so who knows.

Anyone have any experience with tubes like this, or am I better off going with the regular, traditional looking tube, like what is on my laser currently, like what you can purchase from Coletech, etc.?

Thanks,
Michael

[Dave Sheldrake]

Hi Michael,

Fake RECI's do exist but that ad doesn't mention RECI anywhere, overall I'm not a big fan of RECI tubes as they tend to drop off after 3 months to a lower power. Beijing EFR are my tube of choice with 10,000 - 12,000 working hours not unusual and better stability.
There are a limited number of ways to make a DC laser tube so the layouts can often look similar.

cheers

Dave

[Michael Arruda]

True, I was curious if anyone had used these tubes with an "RECI" like layout. The one I have now came with my redsail laser, and is the kind with the contacts coming out the side of the tube, not the end caps themselves. It also has a water cooling collar around the lens, not like this one I referenced which, like the RECI tubes I've seen, has no seperate cooling line for the lens.

[David Somers]

Oooh. Dave. I think this is the first time I noticed you downplaying a RECI tube. Not necessarily smack talking about them, but not being overly kind either?

Not to hijack Michael's thread, but given that Rabbit Laser uses regular glass tubes (no idea what type....nothing shown on their site other than a wattage and roughly a 2000 hr expected life span) for the 30W to 60W tubes, and a RECI for their 80Watt and 150Watt tubes, would you have a preference? I had been leaning towards the 80watt in their 900 x 600 model. But having heard you just grouse a bit about RECI I thought I better ask before it slipped my mind!

Thanks Dave! And thanks Michael for the brief threadjack!

Dave

[Dave Sheldrake]

To be honest guys I'm no fan of RECI tubes at all and never have been,in all my glass based DC's I use either GSI SLC series or EFR ZX series, the F series from EFR are also very good.

RECI tubes are ok but the warranty requirements can be a little miss leading, quoting 100 watts at 32Ma then enforcing a 28Ma limitation seems a bit daft.

Mike, I've used some of the tubes similar to the picture of the tube you posted, they aren't bad but the 35 degree max temperature is rubbish, anything over 23 degrees on fatbody tubes starts to lower their useful life by quite a bit. All this mumbo jumbo about catalytics is just that...sales hype, Cats are used in tubes for good reason but are usually PVD gold on the inside of the resonator (there is some very valid science behind it)

My personal position is get a good tube, not a GSI or Coherant but not a yongpong piece of glass junk either. In general with DC tubes, cheap ones are cheap for a reason unless they come from one of the well known manufacturers.

cheers

Dave

[Michael Arruda]

I'm looking to be in that sub $500 price point for a 60w, shipped to me, so I'm kinda stuck in this inexpensive tube territory. It's so hard to know what is good or not, because most of these sellers don't note the manufacturer.

-Michael

[Bruce Dorworth]

That can not be an RECI tube because they don't make a 60watt tube, they start at 80watt. Have you checked with Light Object? They are located here in Northern California. I just looked and their 60 regular tube is $325 plus shipping.

Hope this helps,
Bruce

[Dave Sheldrake]

Hi Bruce,

RECI make quite a few tubes they don't advertise for other companies. There are lots of brands on the market but very few actual manufacturers. Take for example EFR, they don't list a 40 or a 60 but the LaSea 40's and 60's are all EFR made.

The LaSea 60 watt is under $500 shipped so may well be worth looking at

cheers

Dave

[George M. Perzel]

Hi Dave;
Interesting disscussion and very meaningful for glass tube users. This highlights one of the advantages of Chinese lasers - modularity allows upgrades in various components as better components become available.

I have a Shenhui dual tube laser running two RECI 80watt trubes. They are over two years old but working fine-probaby under 5000 hours each. The time is coming when I will replace them and I have always thought RECI tubes were the best available from China-thanks for enlightening me that other better performing units may be available. Questions:
1. What are the chances that the existing power supplies will work for either GSI or ZX tubes assuming current requirements are similar to the RECI's?
2. I have room in the cabinet for 100 watt tubes and assume new power supplies will be needed-recommendation?
3. Is there any appreciable difference in beam spot size between RECI and ZX series? Between 80watt ZX and 100 watt ZX?
Thanks
Best Regards,
George
Laserarts

[Dave Sheldrake]

Hi George :)

1: Yup PSU's will be fine so long as the current is adjusted on the screw on the base to give best results. an 80 watt RECI PSU will work fine on a ZX 80 watt tube, but as you move to 100/130 watt you would need a different PSU. Like for like they will be fine though. SLC tubes from GSI are in the $25k range for a 200 watt, VERY expensive but on a par with any of the big RF tubes.

2: Go with the matched supplies from EFR, 100,000 hr MTBF and very stable (and cheaper that RECI)

3: EFR tend to be multimode much like all DC tubes but it's beam profile is far higher quality, my 180 watt ZX produces a smaller spot for the same final lens as a RECI 80 watt. For the ZX series expect 10,000 good hours and up to 15,000 use-able hours.

Buying direct from EFR they are also pretty cheap, I think the 80 watt ZX is in the $240 range + post, the tubes will fire down to 8% power reliably although 10% should really be considered the base line.

I've tried just about every make of tube in the last few years, unless it has to be SLC for high power I won't use anything except EFR these days.

cheers

Dave

[Automation Technology]

We have the 80W RECI tube in stock at Chicago

RECI Min 80W, Max 100W LASER TUBE FOR THE LASER ENGRAVER,10000 Hours Span Life, 8 Months Warranty

http://www.automationtechnologiesinc.com/products-page/laser-engraving (http://www.automationtechnologiesinc.com/products-page/laser-engraving)

[George M. Perzel]

Dave;
Many thanks-great advice and info
Will be working on getting a pair of 100 watt ZX's plus new power supplies next week.
Best Regards,
George
Laserarts

[David Somers]

Dave,

So....it seems like continuing down the road of ordering from Rabbitlaserusa with their supplied 80Watt Reci on board might be an OK start, but when it finally goes I should probably consider replacing it with a ZX tube of similar power? Or might you suggest trying to work with Ray to do a ZX tube and EFI PSU right off the bat if he were willing?

[Dave Sheldrake]

AT,

The 100 watt Max from a Z2 tube is at 32Ma, that's 5 Ma above the warranty requirement and will drop the lifetime to around 4,000 hours.

From RECI's page


2. 2.Operation conditionsWater cooling: using purified water; 2 to 5 liter/minute;
water temperature: 10℃-40℃.
The operating environment: temperature 2-40℃; humidity 10-60%.
The working current: test current is 29mA. Maximum working current is 29mA. The running current
must be kept below 27mA. The life span can reach 8,000 hours if the current is kept below 25mA.
The ammeter must be connected to the negative electrode of laser tube.When it is working under over-high current for long term, the negative pole will appear light yellow and the life span will be shortened rapidly.
To protect dust from going into the insulation sheath, please wrap it with plastic film.

at 25Ma the average Z2 pumps around 75 watts of ERP.

This is in part the reason I don't use RECI tubes, to get the advertised maximum power you have to void your warranty.

The EFR ZX1250 tube has an agreed power of 80 watts and a max of 95 watts, on average they produce 88 watts at the factory power setting of 28Ma and have a 360 day warranty. So to get the advertised 80 watts you don't have to cook the tube or void the warranty.

Hiya Dave,

Have a chat with Ray, I'm sure he will be able to get EFR's if you wanted them instead of the RECI. :)

cheers

Dave

[David Somers]

Dave,

I just had an add thought about tubes in general. I see a lot of comments here about folks thinking about buying a used machine but being reluctant because they have no real way to know how many hours are on the tube. This seems to be an issue with both Western and Chinese machines. And, from what I read, it makes people reluctant to pay top dollar for a machine that is being claimed as having low usage. Not a good thing for the seller.

Any thoughts on trying to make an hours meter that could go on a tube's circuit so you would know for sure how many hours it has run? Or are you aware of aftermarket devices for this? Is this just a foof idea of little value?

Dave

[David Somers]

Thanks Dave! Will give that a shot when I am ready to order and let you know how it goes!!

Dave

[George M. Perzel]

Dave (Somers)
Certainly buyers are concerned about remaining tube life for both WQestern and Chinese lasers, but it is much less of an issue with the Chinese ones as replacement tubes are 1/4 to 1/10 the cost of Western RF units. In my case, replacing/reburbishing a Synrad T60 Firestar is around $4k. Replacing a RECI 80 watt is about $500 including air ship from China.
Best Regards,
George
Laserarts

[Dave Sheldrake]

I have an emissions monitor that Tweakie kindly built for me, it measures the laser run time from the RF emissions of the plasma so I can get exact times for actual tube run. May be worth dropping Tweaks a line and seeing if he has any plans to build more of them? The chap is a genius, if it's possible Tweaks is the MAN to know about it :)

cheers

Dave

[Mark Sipes]

Dave,


Any thoughts on trying to make an hours meter that could go on a tube's circuit so you would know for sure how many hours it has run? Or are you aware of aftermarket devices for this? Is this just a foof idea of little value?

Dave

David, when you purchase your first laser next week in Vegas, ask to see the firing hours on the tube. Most software packages ( at least Western ) will have a tube and machine on time as part of the firmware. Not sure about the Asian off-shore models.


.

[Dave Sheldrake]

LaserCUT has it on the Chinese machines Mark but it's pretty hit and miss even when it does work.

cheers

Dave

[Mark Sipes]

and I see by a recent post http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?214395-Tube-hours-on-Shenhui

Shenhui does also.

[Jonathan Bowen]

So any chance you have any contact info or a website for that LaSea tube? I'm not finding it anywhere.

[Mark Sipes]

Are you running KYLA software? CO2 or Fiber

[David Somers]

Mark,

I wish I were going to Vegas to browse, not cause I actually care about Vegas but the convention would have been very interesting. Unfortunately though we are in the midst of a long period of house guests at home and slugs and slugs of work at the office. No travel for me other than on the bicycle back and forth to downtown each day.

Thanks for all the info on hours counting everyone!

Dave

[Mark Sipes]

Dave, you should have been looking for a laser 8-9 years ago when the awards industry of the NW held an annual trade show in Auburn at the Embassy Suites..you could have ridden your bike to the show. Of course there is always the Industrial Show WESTEC 25 March 2014 Los Angeles Convention Center.

[Dave Sheldrake]

http://bjefr.en.alibaba.com/contactinfo.html

Lei Lou is the lady you need to talk to :)

They now do a ZX1050 series for 60 watt machines, the first 10,000 hr 60 watter on the market

cheers

Dave

[Jonathan Bowen]

So I found some stats on that ZX1050. I measured my machine and I'm kinda surprised that it might actually fit in my 40 watt machine. However, I'll need new mounts in order to upgrade. Thanks for the link.
http://www.bjefr.com/?page_id=71

[Matthew Grant]

Any advice for manufacturers of 50W tubes and power supplies? Actually, I'm happy with my tube but the PSU is junk - unstable at high power with the good old hissing noise and fine lines in acrylic edges. I've been planning to replace it, but I'm not getting straight answers from vendors about whether they can guarantee stability at low and high power.

[Dave Sheldrake]

How long is the tube Matt?

cheers

Dave

[Matthew Grant]

The current tube is 1000mm, although there's a door that can be removed to stuff in a larger one.

[Dave Sheldrake]

I tend to advocate matched supplies, if you get a ZX1050 then the supply from EFR will be the most stable to use. PSU's tend to be worlds apart from China, good ones are great ,bad ones are tube killers.

cheers

Dave

[Matthew Grant]

Wow, 60W in 1050mm? That's much better than average. So while I wait for Monday in China for my Alibaba reply, does anyone know the recent price list of these EFR tubes?

[Dave Sheldrake]

It's a fatbody tube Matt so you will need new mounts as well, make sure your machine has clearance for the bigger diameter. From memory the 1050 is *about* $350 FOB

cheers

Dave

[Matthew Grant]

Yes, I saw - 80mm. I think there's plenty of space but i will check tonight. I did ask them to quote mounts as well, but around $350 doesn't sound too bad.

[Joe Saunders]

Hi All,

I am relatively new to this forum, but have been reading many of the posts here in preparation for ordering my first laser next week and have gained a lot of knowledge. Back in Feb. on this thread, Dave Sheldrake made a convincing argument for EFR tubes over RECI. Based on this I plan to have the RECI Z2's, which come standard on my laser, replaced with EFR ZX 1250's. According to the manufacturer the price is the same (I thought the EFRs would be slightly cheaper but I'll give them the benefit of the doubt because it's a non-standard config).

If I can resurrect this thread briefly before I order: has anyone else had positive or negative experiences with EFR? Dave, has your opinion changed for any reason since last February?

Thanks,
Joe

[Dave Sheldrake]

Yup it has,

I now have an even higher opinion of EFR, I won't use anything else other than EFR or GSI (SLC) units but they are well out of the more normal price range (Think $20,000 for a 200 watt for an SLC)

[Kristopher Schaefer]

Resurrecting a topic here, talking about strengths of different tube manufacturers. What are thoughts about Puri? I agree and love EFR but I have a possibility to get a good deal on some Puri tubes.

[Dave Sheldrake]

Puri are ok...not great but ok...pretty much on a par with TongLi/YongLi better versions