Seeking a product to fill holes in cedar that I am restoring

[Frank Pellow]

I am just now getting around to restoring the deck that I partly destroyed last year in order to build my shop.

The old (about 25 year old) western red cedar 2x6s have (mostly) stood up very well and I can re-use most of them. Right now, I am sanding them down, then I will use Sikkens deck stain on them. But, I am encountering a few places where rot has resulted in some holes (see the attached picture). It possible, I would like to plug these holes an re-ruse the wood. In most of these places, the repars can go on the down side of the board so no one will see them so something that is ugly (e.g tar) is probably OK. I would just go ahead and use roofing tar, but I thought that there might be something better and less ugly.

[David Wilson]

Frank
I would try using polly glue (Gorilla). It will expand to fill the gaps and can then be sanded flat. I've used poly glue on many outdoor cedar projects and it holds up great.
To fill gaps, just dampen the wood and apply a small amount to the bottom of the hole.
Remember to ware gloves as this stuff is impossible to get off skin.
Hope this helps

[Chris Padilla]

Frank,

You need to use epoxy to fill gaps any bigger than 1/8" or so. You could even color match the epoxy by adding sawdust to the epoxy (or wood flour...literally powdered wood).

I know you probably don't want to go to much trouble for this but if you do, I suggest ordering up some stuff from www.raka.com (http://www.raka.com) (in Florida unfortunately for you) as they have very good prices. Maple flour would be a decent color match (turns chocolate brown when mixed with epoxy) but pine flour might be better (turns tan).

[Frank Pellow]

Thanks David. The hole is about 1/2 inch wide, 5 inches long, and about 1 inch deep. Wouldn't that take a great deal of glue. If I did use the glue, could it be done in one application?

[Chris Padilla]

Frank,

Also look at the similar threads section below. :)

[Frank Pellow]

Thanks for pointing the threads out Chris. Sounds like epoxy might be the answer. I have never used it.

But, my requirement might be different than those covered in the threads. I am much more interested in preservng the wood than I am in match the surounding wodd and beauty.

Someone in one of the threads mentioned the use of epoxy for boatbuilding and that makes me think that it will stand up well when used outside. I hope that this assumption is correct.

[Dave Richards]

Frank, I agree with Chris on this. Use epoxy filled with wood flour or you could even use wheat flour if color match isn't important.

If you have through holes to patch like where the knot was in that photo, cover the opposite side with plastic, i.e. packing tape, polyethylene, or even part of a blister pack type of packaging. The epoxy will relase from the plastic when it cures and leave you with a smooth surface.

On blind holes, fill with thickened epoxy, cover with plastic and press it flat. Leave it overnight and voila! No sanding required.

If there are small holes that thickened epoxy won't fill easily, just run straight epoxy in.

Epoxy will stand up to exterior applications however it has no UV blocking ability. For filling these holes it would be the perfect material. Epoxy is actually very easy to use. Just don't mix large quantities of it at a time. If you do you'll find it gets quite warm. You can use if straight (just resin and hardener) or thickened to any consistency you need such as mayonnais or peanut butter.

Raka is a good source. I buy my epoxy from them. I like the mix ratio and have never had a problem with it. They offer a couple of different hardners. Fast is good in low temp situations but you'll definitely want the slow stuff in the summer.

[David Wilson]

Frank
One application should work fine. Poly glue foams and expands as it cures so I wouldn't fill the gap more than about 1/3 full and it will expand to fill the entire void.

[Jim Becker]

West System or System III epoxy, tinted if you prefer and use the "micro balloons" to make it stiffer since it's a filler.

[Jamie Buxton]

You might consider plugging it with wood. Use a router to excavate a flat-bottomed hole which covers the defect. Make a piece of wood which fits into the hole. Glue it in, plane to flush, and you're done. Use a waterproof glue like Titebond III.

For a tight fit, you can do it the other way 'round. Make the plug first. Scribe around it. Remove most of the wood with the router (so you get a nice flat surface to glue to), and use a chisel to cut to the scribe line.

You can do this almost as fast as you can play around with epoxy and microballoons and such, and it'll look much nicer.

[Frank Pellow]

You might consider plugging it with wood. Use a router to excavate a flat-bottomed hole which covers the defect. Make a piece of wood which fits into the hole. Glue it in, plane to flush, and you're done. Use a waterproof glue like Titebond III.

For a tight fit, you can do it the other way 'round. Make the plug first. Scribe around it. Remove most of the wood with the router (so you get a nice flat surface to glue to), and use a chisel to cut to the scribe line.

You can do this almost as fast as you can play around with epoxy and microballoons and such, and it'll look much nicer.
Hey Jamie, that is so obvious, I wonder why I didn't think of it. Also, I have now priced epoxy, and this way is a LOT cheaper. I certainly will try it before I resort to epoxy.

[Frank Pellow]

As Jamie suggsted, I will take a crack at plkugging the big holes with wood. But, that still leaves several small nail holes (see photo). I expect that I should use either polly glue or epoxy for these. Is one of these likely to be better fthan the other for this?

[John Weber]

Frank,

Fill them with cedar, cut dutchmen for the holes and damaged areas, or even plugs. For dutchmen there are router kits that use a bearing and sleeve so you can route out the damaged section and then route a filler piece that fits perfect. Bowties are traditional, but any shape works (ovals, squares, triangles, etc...). Use an all weather glue and the repair will out last the deck. Once sanded the repair will blend and add a nice character. I might even use a contrasting wood such as teak and add a little more character. Filling with epoxy would work, but it would look like a filled hole, unless you are painting the deck, and then in that case simple wood bondo would work as well and be easier to use and finish.

John

[Frank Pellow]

John, I figure that there are at least 500 nail holes to fill. Plugs would simply take too much time. What is "wood bondo"?

By the way, I will be staining the deck with a clear stain (Sikkens).

[Chris Padilla]

Frank,

500 holes is quite a bit but some bamboo skewers could make it go decently fast...maybe....

[Dan Forman]

Frank---You might consider sending a PM to Bob Smalser, I bet he would know what to do to prevent any further rot on boards which have already started to have problems. Take a look at this thread:

http://sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?t=21412

In it he mentions "red lead paint" which will kill molds and fungi.

Dan

[Frank Pellow]

Frank,

500 holes is quite a bit but some bamboo skewers could make it go decently fast...maybe....
Thanks Chris. I am not sure I can get those here, but I will check.

[Frank Pellow]

Frank---You might consider sending a PM to Bob Smalser, I bet he would know what to do to prevent any further rot on boards which have already started to have problems. Take a look at this thread:

http://sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?t=21412

In it he mentions "red lead paint" which will kill molds and fungi.

Dan
Thanks Dan, I had not read that thread (and I missed a good thing by not doing so). After reading what Bob has written and shown, I don't know if "red lead paint" will do the job so, as you suggested, I sent Bob private mail.

[John Hart]

Hi Frank...You can find bamboo skewers at the grocery store near the paper plates.

[Bob Smalser]

I don't see any rot in that picture, Frank. I see the loop of a carpenter ant tunnel is all.

You don't need any poison paints, which won't cure (as opposed to prevent) rot anyway.

I'd use epoxy and fairing compound...you can dye it to match....get the microballoon-type "fairing" filler-thickener as opposed to the adhesive type for ease of sanding. West Marine or another large marine store.

For rot pockets, cut out and let in new wood, or treat with a Smith Enterprises epoxy product called CPES.

[Ken Fitzgerald]

Frank......if you look around you might find some very small dowels that would work for the nail holes. I'd try a well supplied hardware store first and then resort to checking at some "hobby shops" or craft stores. Drive a dowel in that is coated with an appropriate exterior glue and cutoff with a sharp utility knife. This would work only if you don't mind contrasting woods.

[Frank Pellow]

Frank......if you look around you might find some very small dowels that would work for the nail holes. I'd try a well supplied hardware store first and then resort to checking at some "hobby shops" or craft stores. Drive a dowel in that is coated with an appropriate exterior glue and cutoff with a sharp utility knife. This would work only if you don't mind contrasting woods.
Good idea Ken! I will try it today and let you know how it works. I dont mind the contrast.

[Frank Pellow]

I don't see any rot in that picture, Frank. I see the loop of a carpenter ant tunnel is all.

You don't need any poison paints, which won't cure (as opposed to prevent) rot anyway.

I'd use epoxy and fairing compound...you can dye it to match....get the microballoon-type "fairing" filler-thickener as opposed to the adhesive type for ease of sanding. West Marine or another large marine store.

For rot pockets, cut out and let in new wood, or treat with a Smith Enterprises epoxy product called CPES.
Thanks Bob.

The second picture is not very good -sorry. There isn`t any rot in the second picture (just holes from nails that I pulled out), but I am very pleased to say there isn`t any carpenter ant tunnel either. That is just a man-made gouge.

[Frank Pellow]

Hi Frank...You can find bamboo skewers at the grocery store near the paper plates.
Right you are, now I remember seeing them. I will try both them and the small dowels that Ken suggested.

[Frank Pellow]

Right you are, now I remember seeing them. I will try both them and the small dowels that Ken suggested.
The bamboo scewers were too small. :o But, it was a good idea Chris.

The 3mm dowel that I tried worked perfectly. :) I applied a dab of Lepages Outdoor Wood glue, slid the dowel in, sawed it off, let it dry, then sanded it. It takes very little time to fill each hole (which is just as well since there are so many holes). Thanks again for the suggestion Ken.