How to best market my engraving business? - need input

[Bill Stearns]

Greetings
Would like advice on advertising, and promoting business - what you've found most successful? I am a one-person laser engraving business - town size 'bout 10,000 - been at this 'little over seven years. (most sales coming from photograph engraving, and plastic signs; not near enough plaque sales.) Sales run okay, but nothing earth shattering. Would like to (okay, need to!) increase sales, but have the constraints of one-person, one-machine, so many hours 'n the day, etc. (can't be the only one in this boat, uh?) Don't have much money for newspaper ads - pretty darn costly here. Do find it helpful displaying 'few of my products in retail businesses 'round town. (i.e. a bank, a sporting goods store: sometimes all you need to do is ask if you can.) And, I do have a web site that's a life-saver some months. And, word-of-mouth has always helped. Guess what I'm asking: any thoughts on creative, successful, ways you've found to increase business (sales) - well, I could sure use 'em. - Thanks.

[Mike Null]

Bill

I think there are several threads on this topic so you might spend some time searching the forum.

In the meantime, don't spend another penny on print advertising of any kind. Nothing! Absolutely nothing! Engraving is a service business like being a plumber. People will look for you when they need something done. Even if you have a storefront impulse sales will be an exception rather than the rule. The best advertising is a web site. But it should be a good one, not something that looks homemade. People use websites today instead of the yellow pages.

Is this your full time job? If so you should be attending the ARA show in Las Vegas to get some ideas about the many ways you can make money in this business. You can't make it with only one machine. You'll need to offer a number of related services.

[Dave Sheldrake]

Hi Bill,

Research your local population cross section.

10,000 people
8,000 are adults,
4,000 of those have businesses and love big signs and personalised items.
No other engravers in town

Great position, you have at least a reasonably captive market

10,000 people
5,000 are kids
3,000 are employed
2,000 run businesses,
200 of those are making a profit
25 of those need engraving done

not so good, you have 25 potential customers plus the walk in's who happen to want grannys mug engraved for her birthday.

Do you have a product line?
If so would I want to buy it when I see it?
If not then is it something I need in my day to day life?

If I saw your web page, why would I buy from you instead of anybody else?
Why are your services any better than 20,000 other web sites I can find?
If I suddenly decided I needed 10,000 items engraved for a trade show, how would you help me?
If I'm looking for engraving services how easy is it to get hold of you by phone to have a chat?
If I need a lot of stuff done why would I use you instead of buying my own machine?
Does anything you make have the *wow* effect?
Would I notice your item in the sporting goods shop or would it pass under my radar as I go in to buy some tennis balls?
I can get the same widgit done a buck cheaper in the next town, why would I pay you more to do it?
Do you have a business card if I ask for one?
Can I call you on a Saturday or are you out with the kids?
I just googled xyzLaserEngravingLLC and there's nothing on the web I can find about you?

Think of me as average Joe who happens upon your business, what can you do for me?


Just some thoughts Bill but thoughts many of your potential customers will be having as well. If you can address those potential questions then you already have the means to increase business :)

cheers

Dave

[David Somers]

Mike,

I am not so sure about the total lack of worth of print advertising in a small town of 10k? Though I certainly think it is of very limited value as the town gets bigger and bigger, like in your home of St Louis and mine of Seattle. Those small town newspapers carry a lot of load in terms of disseminating info in ways that the Seattle Times and the St Louis Post-Dispatch don't. But I certainly wouldn't do it regularly. Perhaps just a "reminder" advertisement a few times a year to be sure folks see your logo and name? Since you want to do more plaques you might try to get your reminder Ad in the sports section of the paper during football season or whatever the really popular local school sport is?

In a small community like yours I might go visit the sports leagues and teams and show them what you can do at different price points. Hit service organizations and churches and other places where they need to recognize people for their achievements, large and small. Have a range of plaques and thank you gifts from small to large in terms of price. Cultivate the local news reporters who focus on local happenings and tie them in with the groups giving awards so your stuff is being seen in the paper. A photo and a few inches of an article on a service group recognizing someone for outstanding achievement. In the piece might be a mention that the beautiful plaque was created at your shop. Free advertising. And keep some room in your schedule for the small stuff. Those little things aren't going to earn you a vacation to the Carribean, but it keeps your business in front of people when they look for something a bit larger.

I guess what I am saying is in a small community like yours the key is to keep people thinking about you positively with exposure that doesn't necessarily cost you $$.

I also agree with Mike in that it would seem very difficult to me support yourself entirely on laser. Even here in Seattle where we have a large population base to support small niche markets you would be hard pressed to find someone surviving with just a laser. Look at all the folks on this forum and their listing of equipment. You see the laser is a part of a larger shop that might include a CNC, or vinyl cutting, or various dye sublimation services, etc. The laser is one tool among several that gives them some breadth beyond the standard laser plaque or acrylic piece. The nice thing is that often those other devices are not as expensive as your laser was so with a little work your earning potential is faster.

Mike's suggestion about the ARA show is also a very good one. I try to attend the annual wood turners symposiums and those always have all manner of things that can spur you on and give you ideas. Worth your time if you can swing it.

Dave

[Kev Williams]

I'll be of no help, I'm afraid, but who knows? I do have a story ;)

My dad was a machinists mate in the Navy in WWII, worked as a machinist at Hill AFB after his stint, and there he learned to engrave on an old Gorton 3-U Pantograph. He and many of his workmates ended up at Litton Industries in SLC, dad became the supervisor of the machinists. Just happened that Litton had a Scripta engraving machine up in a loft, and Dad started making all their desk and wall signs and name badges. He enjoyed engraving so much he bought his own Sripta 3D pantograph in 1966. He got a biz license shortly thereafter. That's the machine I learned to engrave on. Not much happened for a couple of years, but soon people he used to work with move to other jobs. Those new employers needed wall and desk signs and badges, and dad's former work pals started calling him to make them. Dad wanted to get into trophies, but lack of storage space or money to rent a building stopped that. But soon, off-the-wall jobs started coming in, like aluminum ID plates, and using the engraver to open circuits on IC cards of the day. And in 1969, my parents moved into a little bigger house. It was pretty much part time until about 1974 when things started taking off....

Shorter version, aside from badges and such, nearly all work coming in was industrial oriented, and to this day it still is. And aside from having our name (not an ad) in the yellow pages for a few years and a lame photo webpage that I've never promoted, we've never 'traditionally' advertised. The business still in this same house, my folks are now gone (mom just passed peasefully 2 days ago), so me and the wife live here now. The whole business consists of me, my wife, and my (ex)brother in law. And biz just keeps getting better. Last year was our best ever. And last year's business expenses totalled more than our gross income for 6 of the past 10 years. I can relate to the problem of wanting to advertise, there have been some lean spots at times! -- but at the same time I'm afraid that if we do, we'll get too MUCH business.

Word of mouth has always been our best friend. And I'm glad for that, because if I had to LOOK for work, I'd have no idea where to start...

Good luck Bill, I'm sure the others will have some great suggestions! Because like I said, I'm no help! :)

[David Somers]

Kev,

A good story. Thanks! And my thoughts are with you about your Mom.

Dave

[Mark Sipes]

In your business plan that you prepared before you went into business, what markets/items were you seeking to break into?? name plates, name tags, electrical signage, glassware, flasks ?????

Print lots of Business Cards...go to Chamber of Commerce members, Morning Breakfast Network Groups, Web Presence, The malls, small contractor,s Civic (Rotary, Elks, Lions...) Churches (name tags) Assisted Living, Gas Stations, Car Wash (name tags/Door plates) Private/ Public schools

Look for engraved products every where you go and offer your services. Prepare samples on request. need to be A+ 1st Class and competitively priced.

Have Rotary?? Glassware - Weddings, Bed & Breakfast (Wine glass souvenirs) ....... Acrylics - Retirements, Promotions, Salesman of the month/year

Perpetual Awards... then they keep coming back for updates.....

Print ads are old news..... that includes the phone book... not sure how much longer they will be printed.

Flyers yes... Target your message and audience


If you go into the trophy market get prepared for an investment in inventory.....plaques, marble, plastic bases, figure, columns, rods.....Shipping $$$$ unless you are close to a distributor.

[Tim Bateson]

Diversify, Diversify, Diversify..... I nearly always have projects running, even though some weeks I never touch the laser (although that's rare). If you can find the work for your laser full-time, go for it, but when it's idle there are a lot of other opportunities out there. This past year (2013) about 85% of my business was laser work. This year (2014), I expect that to be down to 65-70%. Not because there isn't work, but because I now offer other (non-laser) solutions. My goal is 45-50% laser work for 2015.

As stated the ARA show could help spark ideas (I'll be there next week). However, a NBM show may spark even more (my opinion). Most depends on your business focus.

[David Somers]

Bill,

Tim's comments about diversification has a lot of merit. Especially in a small community. I would think you could saturate the market quickly if you are too focused, unless you are always introducing new looks to things to keep it all fresh. If you wanted to stick with laser you could still diversify by being creative and seeking out totally different markets from the award/trophy offerings. For example, talk to wedding and event organizers. Laser cut cards and invitations and place settings can be elegant and have a high wow factor, and the cost of materials is zip to you. Take a look at Pinterest or Etsy and look for laser cut paper as a topic. Or laser cut cards or invitations, etc. All will net you a lot of ideas. That is just one thought of course. The laser is pretty versatile when you start putting your mind to it.

I keep suggesting things with community oriented businesses, but in a town of 10k there may be enough industrial uses for a laser if you look around. For some reason I have it in my head you are trying to stay local, but am not certain about that?

Another thought about contacting people might be to prepare a short introduction talk/powerpoint with some video footage of the laser in action and samples that you can take to service and business groups that like to have free speakers when they meet. Rotary, Lions, Kiwanis, Soroptimist, BNI, etc. It is a chance to hobnob with the business people in your town in a low key environment and show them the wonders of the laser. they likely don't want a true sales pitch, so approach it as a "cool technology talk." But showing the process and showing the end result will be the same as a sales pitch in terms of the effect; a wow technology with lots of application, and you are the one doing it!! Go out on a limb and bring some samples of things you would like to do that look cool as well as what is currently your mainstays. Ask for a member list of the group you are visiting and see if there are some common elements you can play to in the talk. maybe Rotary is largely manufacturers and Kiwanis tends to be sports and health care and more person focused businesses. Each gives you something different to play to.

OK.....I better be quiet. There are lots of good business folk on this forum who can hand you better advice than an IT guy in Seattle. But consider in a town your size, your strengths are in the personal contacts and referrals you make, along with a sweet looking set of products that fits local needs without breaking their banks. Those are the things Kev and Mark were talking about.

Good luck,

Dave

[Dave Sheldrake]

Sorry to hear of your loss Kev :(

best wishes

Dave

[Mark Sipes]

Bill, business can't be all that bad at your end: you've posted that

"I have a job to engrave 6,500 knives!"

"I often laser engrave glassware (wine glasses, beer mugs, etc.)"

"Prior to starting my engraving business (2006), I worked for a large marketing company, specializing in selling "customer loyalty" type promotions."


We should be getting advice from you on how to promote our businesses......

Grand Rapids:
Annual tourism events



Mississippi Melodie Showboat – July
Itasca Vintage Car Show – July
Tall Timber Days – August
White Oak Rendezvous and Festival – August
Grand Slam of Golf Tournament – August
Goods From the Woods – September
National Ruffed Grouse Society Annual Hunt – October
White Oak Classic Dog Sled Race – January
Judy Garland Festival – July



Four full pages of members Chamber of Commerce http://www.grandmn.com/updates/2013%20folder/GRACC_2013_WEB.pdf WOW!

[Bill Stearns]

From Bill -
Want 'a thank you all for your advice 'n input regarding ways I might grow my business. Was helpful to learn that no one seemed to find newspaper advertising very successful; 'least not on an on-going basis. (You've probably saved me 'lot of money.) The idea that I direct mail "flyers" to a targeted audience was a terrific suggestion - used to - will begin again. All good advice that I diversify into more 'n different products 'n services - mentioned several times. Certainly understand the value 'n this. Just that I need to find something unique, as too many others 'round me offer vinyl cutting, sublimation, CNC stuff, etc. Will indeed keep looking! Always expanding my laser capabilities has kept me going, I guess.
DAVE S: Thank you for your list of questions I need to be asking myself - all good questions. Especially, the one 'bout "What do I offer consumers that no one else can?" (pondering this.)
KEV W: Thanks for sharing your wonderful story 'bout your dad, your family, your business. Found it inspiring! (And, so sorry for your loss.)
A good thought (fact) that I need 'least a second machine in order to grow my business. Would first have to overcome my "chicken or egg?" conundrum - first needing more business to justify the expense. (Those "big jobs" I mentioned - 6,500 knives for example - only come 'long every blue moon to lift my spirits 'n sales.) Plus, truth is: I am 65 - part of me is thinking more of winding down 'stead of gearing-up - the idea of greater debt of concern to me. So, mostly looking for ideas to increase sales with what I have to work with. All of your ideas 'n thoughts were of great help! (kind' a needed a kick 'n the pants!) - Thank you!


　



.

[David Somers]

Bill,

If you want to stay with the laser as your main tool, just fill out its use more.....take a bit of time and go look in Pinterest.com. It is free to setup an account. You can start something like 3 or 6 folders if you want and keep them private, and then "Pin" things into them to keep things that attracted you together in one place. Start off doing a search on something like laser engraving, paper cutting, etc. Then paw through what shows up and see where it takes you. Use it as a tool to expand your thoughts as to what the laser can do for you that might be of value in your community. I had mentioned the idea earlier of doing laser cut place cards for functions, and laser cut invitiations and what not for weddings. You will find tons of ideas like those that people have applied the laser to that you may not have considered yet that might be just what you need to fill that gap in your time, and offer something that is, as yet, unique in our area.

Have fun!!!! And good luck!

[Tim Bateson]

In this business NO form of advertizing will pay for itself... Actually the odds about the same as the Mega Lotto, but with a much, much lower payout if you win. Don't waste money on newspapers, direct-flyers, or handouts. Same is true online. This is a Service business, people only need you from time to time. It's not like "Hey look, there's a sale at an engraving shop, let's run down there and buy some plaques!" So buy the lotto tickets & skip the advertisements.

In 2012 I experimented with flyers & catalogs. Sent/mailed/delivered/distributed over 200 flyers and catalogs to current customers. Not potential, but current customers. Most have since been repeat customers - with the item(s) they originally came to me for.

ZERO... repeat ZERO new business was generated through sales of items advertized.

[Michael Hunter]

I'd go further than Tim - general advertising is a great big negative to your business.

Not only is it very doubtful that advertising will get you work,
It is CERTAIN to get you a zillion calls from insurance salesmen, financial consultants and web designers ; all of whom want to take away what little money you are already making.

[Ross Moshinsky]

Maybe you're not charging the right amount of money. 6500 engraved knives should be about $8000 "pure" profit and that could be considered on the lower side of things. That's a good hit for a part time business. To make $8000 profit in awards, you'd need to sell between $10-14k worth of goods typically.

An effective website is just about the best way to advertise now. It's a lot of work though and difficult to figure out what to focus on.

[Bill Stearns]

Hi Ross -
Thanks for your comments. I am charging 'bit less than your calculation - guess I felt I couldn't afford to risk losing the on-going business. (okay, probably shot myself 'n the foot - but, other jobs I do for 'em kind' a balance the scales.) They deliver cases 'n cases to me - all have to be unpacked - unwrapped - laid out - sprayed with Cermark - then, engraved - then hand washed 'n dried - then, repackaged 'n re-boxed.) ugh! - I do bring in help with this. Would be helpful to know what people are charging for knife engraving in general - from a single unit to, lets say per hundred? Buck style folding knives - hunting knives? (had 'hard time finding pricing on the Net
Regarding a web site, I do have one. Would be helpful hearing your honest opinion of it? (you won't hurt my feelings.) For two years I was paying people 'bout $40 an hour to work on one for me - then, learned that my Host offers software called RV Site Builder for "free"! - a drop 'n drag program I was able to use by myself. Now, I'm able to change pages 'n pictures 'n pricing within seconds by myself. - get quite 'few sales off it! it's greatengravings.com. Anyway, 'gain - thanks for your input.

Bill

[AL Ursich]

I'd go further than Tim - general advertising is a great big negative to your business.

Not only is it very doubtful that advertising will get you work,
It is CERTAIN to get you a zillion calls from insurance salesmen, financial consultants and web designers ; all of whom want to take away what little money you are already making.

Boy that is SO True... Add to that list the Yellow Pages that nag... and the Vector Design Companies that keep calling to offer you services.... No idea what country they are in.... I told the Print Yellow Page guy that Print was DEAD and he should polish up his resume... He would be out of a job soon like all the print newspapers.... He changed my Phone Book listing to alternate upper case and lower case.... LOL.... He so funny....

And all the "SEO Companies" that send you stuff from your contact us from the web page.... with a 1010101010 phone number and WE only WE can boost your sales.... How is the weather in India...?

I do Fire Dept stuff.... A few trade shows passing out samples, the many Buyer's guides for every show I can find, the many on line buyers guide, some Web Developers that lump a county of Fire Dept's info into a site then sell ads that rotate.... Over 6 years about $8K in ads and ZERO Business.... My Web Site brings 90 plus % of my business.... I was lucky and my Web Name matches a common search term and my little one man shop shows up with the Big Boys in a search...

A web site with many pictures of the things you have or can do along with all the Key Search Words.... That is the trick...

Good Luck,

AL

[Mark Ross]

Our laser business is much like Tim described. We saw a need and went after it. Most of our customers "need" lasering but can't afford the initial outlay for a machine large enough to do what our lasers do. So they are a captive audience. A couple customers finally bit the bullet and went off on their own, but came back, not realizing the amount of work that goes into it. We eventually bought a second machine. We also own an oldie and moldie Dimension BST768 3D printer. The technology has come a long way.

We bought a second 3D printer at the end of last year that will print clear plastic. The machine itself was north of 50K. The first thing I did was put samples of working parts into the hands of our sales people and 2 months later, we are doing clear prototypes for customers that own 3D printers but can't justify 50K+ for something they need a couple of times a year. It is adding to our business, but it will be a slow go. It has one setting, an accuracy of 100uM. Our BST prints in the 10-13 thou range,so this thing is really cool. Material costs are almost but not quite on the same page.

We typically cut material, we have one customer that does a small volume of engraving but their stuff is high dollar one off personalized stuff for watercraft and such where the overall cost of the vehicle is north of a million dollars. It is engraving personalized things for luxury craft.

There was someone on the forum that was etching wall plates or something that identified circuit breakers and/or water valves and the like where you have to ID things so you knew where to shut them off. Sounds like a niche market, but in a hospital you could do quite a few tags.

This business isn't like something you see advertised in the back of popular mechanics, where you buy a machine and people beat a path to your door. We don't own a vinyl cutter, because that is an area we are not interested in. It doesn't compliment our core businesses. For some it does. There is a company in town that does all sorts of signage, they will wrap vehicles in graphics and they have a laser, but there are times they ask us if we have any overflow business to help ends meet.

You have to decide what you want to do and how to make it successful. Craft and art shows are boom or bust. The only real advice I can give you is stay away from Ebay. You will never make money at that. As soon as someone sees you making any sort of sales and money, they will undercut you just to try and make a buck.

I don't know if there is anyone out there making money on memorial stones. Since there is a company that has a patent on lasering a brick, I would not recommend going into that either (actually we all laugh about that one, you can find those by looking for it).

Our core businesses include engineering services, where we "rent a socially akward, knowledgable, industry specific geek" for a week or more. It is where people need engineers but don't need them full time (or can't tolerate them full time...lol).

Look at it this way, when I threw my first marble down the lanes 40+ years ago, many bowling alleys had pro shops and would drill a ball. Now kids ask what bowling is. Don't even get me started...

If you tie your business to one market, you will rise and fall with that market. Our core business when I joined my company was 13 areas. It went to 15 and this year it is at 18. If luxury watercraft hit a bump, well, maybe something non luxury picks up.

One more word of advice, avoid the Mah Jong custom market, Dee Gallo is the equivalent of the sword maker from kill bill, you can't win...LOL.

[Dave Sheldrake]

Hi Bill,

Had a quick nosey at your web site, looks good (and better than mine)




Jewelry
Firearms, rifles, etc.
Overly expensive, or irreplaceable items.



lose number 3, that shouts, "we make screwups sometimes" people are coming to you because you are great, not because you make mistakes (we all make mistakes but shouting about them doesn't help)

cheers

Dave

[Craig Dawes]

G'Day everyone, another avenue to look at is setting up a business page on facebook. I have my son looking into it for me at the moment.

[Bill Stearns]

Dave -
Thanks so much for glancing at my web site! Immediately, took your suggestion and eliminated #3 - the "we don't engrave expensive items". As I mentioned earlier, I had spent quite 'bit of money with "web designers" over the course of two years - then, came across this terrific "Free" web building software program - accessed thru my Hosting folks. ($9.98 per mo for the hosting service.) You can't purchase the program directly, you simply access it thru your C-Panel. (called RV Sitebuilder.) 'Couple days after learning to make my own site, I finally started making sales from the site! And, the fact that I can edit my site within minutes has been 'real plus - 'stead of waiting weeks for somebody else to do it for me.
Question I have is: with all the wonderful things I can produce - why I'm not doing better 'n sales than I am? Am I shooting myself in the foot making it clear on my site that I am in "Northern Minnesota"? - even being a one person operation, should I project more of a "national presence" - you think? Someone else, earlier, commented on their fear of gaining TOO much business! (probably silly to worry 'bout that - 'till I have the problem, uh?)

Thanks again - any further suggestions 'bout my site would be much appreciated!
Bill (greatengravings.com)

[Bill Stearns]

Craig -
I wrote you a reply then, for some reason, the forum froze up, so hope this isn't a duplicate. I created a Facebook presence 'while back. One annoying thing: my "inbox" is always loaded with spam, and messages from Facebook. But, that was to be expected, I guess. Looking into it originally, think I remember being told there is a "use for business" facet to Facebook - but, think I learned there is a "pay-per-visit/pay-for-click" fee for utilizing for business purposes. Also: 'less you're prepared to "friend" everyone (I'm not) - I'm not sure how you use it to reach those you want to. Also: think I've read where viruses, etc. are, or can be, spread thru using it - so, I'd suggest [externally] backing up your work - customer files, etc. Lastly, aren't "sons" great, when it comes to helping us figure out "things"?- especially the newer technologies? I know mine sure is.

Good luck,
Bill

[Mark Sipes]

Not familiar with your neck of the woods, but maybe the area you consider a territory is saturated with laser providers.

Are you Retail, Commercial or residential based? do you deliver to local customers?

Ask Yourself **

How do I acquire new customers currently, How did the last 5 customers find out about my services??

What is the make-up of your client base. Contractors, Speciality Items (like your knives), Name/Door plates... etc How many in each Category: repeat customers or 1 time.

Need to really look at why these people come to you and how they are finding you.......


Most of my business..... 65-70% comes from customers 50-200+ miles from my location......

One advantage I have is being on the West coast... An east coast company can schedule their requirements for the morning (rush orders) call me and I still have 3 hours to complete their order and get it in on a Fed-X jet.

[Mike Null]

Right or wrong, I have resisted social media of any kind. I try to focus on commercial accounts for several reasons. First, they don't waste my time. Orders and inquiries are emailed; invoices are emailed. They order in reasonable volume, they re-order and they don't try to beat me up over a dime. My oldest customer has been with me for 15 years and has grown to be my highest volume customer as well.

My only advertising is my web site. And it produces! It would do even better if I'd spend some money on it.

I'm home based and maintain a firm $25 minimum to discourage retail customers--I just don't want the traffic in my house.

[Bill Stearns]

Mark - thanks, once 'gain, for offering me your sole-searching questions - questions for me to ponder, for sure. I operate out of a huge, old house - it's on a very busy street - the entire downstairs devoted to a display shop, and workshop - my billboard, and banners, out front draw 'lot of business. ('though not nearly enough). I engrave gifts , and photographs, for individuals, and local, and regional, companies (mostly needing signs) - and, executive gifts for foundations 'n the area. One thing I've discovered: businesses 'n foundations seem to feel they need to spread their business 'round locally - ordering from me one time, then my competitors the next. (no matter my pricing advantages 'n incredible customer service!) - free delivery, etc. Anybody else run in to this? - I find it frustrating! (this is why I was asking the forum 'bout "loyalty" earlier. I have only two competitors to speak of right in town - one using rotary engraving (mostly trophies, plaques, medals) - and, one franchise printing shop that out-sources their plaques. (I'm the only one offering laser engraving.) My web site does draw business from 'round the state - but, can't figure, with all I offer, why I'm not busier than I am. ???? The percentage of repeat business, to the total, seems awfully small ... other than what I've mentioned - can't figure out why. ?

Thanks again,
Bill