A question on turning some small boxes.

[David Coburn]

Hello again. Thank you for all the help these past few weeks...

I've ordered a 4x4x16" blank of Rosewood and the same size piece of Monkey Pod... I'm going to make some 4" tall turned boxes. My question is about the wood being wet. Do I need to follow all the same rules I've been reading about when you're dealing with wet wood and going to turn a bowl? I'm talking about rough turning to 10% (but not less than 3/4") then letting it dry for some period of time till the rough turned "bowl" is dry. Do I also have to do these things with a small turned box of the size described above? If yes, is there any good way to speed up the process of drying??

thank you in advance,
david

[charlie knighton]

yes, no good way, could after turning put in kilm but without much experience using kilm you will have mixed results, rosewood is very oily i believe, hard to dry

email mike stafford, he can help with which woods to buy and can add his experiences

[David Coburn]

Ok, so after I rough them out I've people letting them dry in many different ways... Can I just sit them on my wood rack and let them sit? It's in a non climate controlled garage... I've also read that some people will keep the chips, put them in a paper bag, and put the roughed out bowl in with them...

[Dick Mahany]

There is Rosewood and there is Rosewood. Depending on absolute moisture content and how it was sectioned from the original log, results can vary widely. I have recently turned several lidded boxes about 3.25" dia by 4-6" H and have had pretty good results with maintaing roundness. My blanks were termed " Indian Rosewood ". They smelled unpleasant, but turned and finished beautifully. Suggest a little reading on different types of Rosewood and sectioning to see how it relates to what you are doing. BTW, I also had a pretty significant asthmatic reaction to it when sanding, so consider that aspect also if needed. I do use a Trend Air Pro.

[Paul Williams]

Yes you need to dry the wood somehow. If these will be lidded boxes you have to make sure the wood doesn't move much after final turning. If I am using anything other than kiln dried wood for boxes I turn to a cylinder, put a tenon on each end and make a cut where the lid will be parted off. Then I part the cylinder where the top of the main box will be. I hollow to about 1/2 inch or a little more on the bottom and 5/8 to 3/4 on the top. Then I set them aside for several months. I've had good luck with this method, but if I rush and final turn too soon I end up with a lid that doesn't fit correctly. Have not had any problem with cracking, but that may be the stability of the woods I use.

[David Coburn]

It is "Indian Rosewood" coming from "Wood turning blanks 4 you"... So, after hollowing do I just sit them in the shop or do I need to store or treat them special somehow?

david

[John Thorson]

In the Richard Raffan book (or DVD) on boxes he covers rough turning the box keeping the walls at about 10% of the diameter and letting them dry down before doing a final turning. Same basic procedure as when turning bowls right from the log. Richard tapes the 'ends' together to slow drying in this area. I've had good luck with this technique without bothering with Anchorseal or other treatment but on the other hand my loss rate is about 10% due to cracking.

[Reed Gray]

Even if the wood is 'dry', I still rough turn it first to let it adjust. I seldom do boxes over about 2 inch diameter, and 1 1/2 inch max for threaded boxes. If you take one from where you are and go to Arizona, the box will move. Rosewood because it is naturally oily will not move as much. If the lid and box come from the same piece, and are turned end grain, they will still fit, but you won't be able to turn it all the way around without the lid and box binding. Turned end grain, the wood won't move as much as flat grain wood or like it wood if you turned them in bowl orientation. Round over any sharp edges, and taping them with the flats together is a good idea.

robo hippy

[Thom Sturgill]

Good advice on sensitivity to rosewood - it applies to the entire family and can be worse with cocobolo.

Normally, the key to drying is to SLOW DOWN the process to control cracking by making the piece dry evenly (or from the inside out, depending on who you talk to).

There are several 'favorite' methods for drying. Boxing or bagging, burying in shavings, painting end-grain with sealer, etc. David Ellsworth says that all that is needed is to make sure that it is stored such that there is no air movement over the piece. Conversely, some prefer to build 'kilns' heated with a light bulb and a fan to gently move the heat around a space, often an old refrigerator, and to evacuate the moisture.

If plastic bags are used to seal up the wood, they have to be checked OFTEN and turned inside out or replaced - the first few days check them several times a day.

You may also read about boiling, microwaving, and soaking in either DNA (De-Natured Alcohol) or soapy water. Careful microwaving may work, but I am doubtful of the others. Boiling and microwaving are good to CREATE warping.

[Jim Underwood]

No matter how well the blank is dried, it's going to move on you when you open it up.

I'd rough turn the box and let it acclimate for a certain period just to make sure it's finished moving.

[Eric Gourieux]

David,

One more thing in addition to the above comments: Once you rough turn your box, weigh it and set it aside. If the wood seems to be pretty dry, you could weigh it every few days and final turn when the weight stabilizes. I consider final turning once I get 3 consecutive weights that don't drop. If the wood is wet, I set it aside and start weighing at a later date.

[David Coburn]

Thank you everyone...

So it seems that there a large lag time between acquiring blanks and finish turning blanks unless you are doing glue-ups, use one of the "successful" drying methods, buy wide thick kiln dried expensive lumber, or just have a huge stash of blanks that you've built up..

david

[Stan Smith]

Like you, I would like to turn some boxes also. I've been turning mostly pens and using blanks that I bought or wood that I've had for years. I tried some pepper mills with salt shakers in December. I used dark cherry which I thought was dry enough. Wrong. I cut a piece off from a 2 ft section of 3.5 x 3.5" and it checked--like in a day. The entire block had been waxed, but I guess I should have waxed the end of the piece that I cut and let it set some more. I'm going to buy a digital scale from HF just to weigh my small blanks. I tried the microwave once and it worked okay, but I realized that it was taking a chance, too. If nothing else, turning is forcing us to plan way in advance and be patient. Your post is very helpful to me because it reminds me to choose the projects I want to do for Christmas this year and get the wood for them now. Thanks!

Stan

[Len Mullin]

This may be a stupid question, but, why not use a denatured alcohol bath/dip to help dry the wood after it's turned?
Len

[Jim Underwood]

You could do that. It would probably help.

David,
I repeat: No matter how well dried (IE> Kiln Dried wood included) the wood is going to move after opening it up.

Best to always rough turn your boxes and let it complete moving before finish turning. Granted, the kiln dried lumber will move less, but box turners will always tell you it's still going to move. For precise fits you're always better off to let the wood acclimate after rough turning, then finish turn.

[Stan Smith]

You could do that. It would probably help.

David,
I repeat: No matter how well dried (IE> Kiln Dried wood included) the wood is going to move after opening it up.

Best to always rough turn your boxes and let it complete moving before finish turning. Granted, the kiln dried lumber will move less, but box turners will always tell you it's still going to move. For precise fits you're always better off to let the wood acclimate after rough turning, then finish turn.

Hi Jim. I think my mindset was just to consider water weight loss. Now that I reflect, it seems that shapes can change without losing weight. I can see that this is obviously critical for boxes with lids for sure. I have to admit that this sort of makes me want to shy away from doing boxes.

[robert baccus]

Very hard oily tropical woods are in a class by themselves when drying. They want to dry very slowly like any hard strong wood. I have luck turning to 1/3" on 4" wood, hollowing --waxing the outsides and rim heavily. Leave the inside open to allow drying--this will tend to pull the wood together. Still dry in a sheltered place. Paper bags are good because they are almost transparent to moisture but prevent drafts. The monkey pod should give no trouble--it is tropical but soft, fiberous and weak in strength. Patience is the best dryer available. I might be cautious about DNA as it may pull out the waxes and oils that you paid for--these also slow normal drying proceses. All this advice is good on hard natives like Bow-Darc.any fruit trees, dogwoods, mulberry ect.