Tools from Europe?

[Richard Fosmoe]

All,

I just found out that I'm going to Europe for a week for my business. With that said, I would like to know if there any tools worth purchasing Europe? I know that anything dealing with electricity is out of scope due to voltage differences. Any help would be greatly appreciated.


Rich Fosmoe

[Mike Henderson]

Essentially all of the power in Europe is 220 volts so all of the tools are designed to run on 220 volts. Having 220 volt tools in the US is a pain because it's hard to get 220 volts. It'd probably require some additional wiring in your shop and you almost wouldn't find it on any job site. Europe is also mostly 50 hertz but if the tool you buy has a universal motor that won't make any difference. If the tool has an induction motor, it would make a difference.

Unless you can buy a tool for delivery in the US, designed for 120 volt operation, I wouldn't buy any tools in Europe.

I'm mostly thinking small tools here, not things like cabinet saws.

Mike

[Mark Andrew]

If you have 240V in your shop for stationary tools, most power tools will work. The frequency is 60Hz (US) vs 50Hz, which means things run a bit faster, but in general, that isn't a problem.

Metric measuring tools are handy to get (if you use them). Nearly all European screws are Pozidrive heads, much superior to plain Philips, so that's another thing to look at.

You can get some seriously powerful hand-held power tools in Europe, since there's so much more power available from the standard wall socket. I used to have a 10" Skilsaw! I sold it a long time ago, before I got 240 in the shop. Wish I hadn't now!

[Lee Reep]

It is a misconception that 240 VAC tools are more powerful. They just consume 1/2 the current vs. their 120VAC equivalents. A tool motor is rated at "X" watts, and watts is simply volts X amps. Double the voltage, halve the current, and vice versa. One big advantage for 240 is that by running at a lower current, extension cords can be a smaller gauge wire.

the reason you typically get a 240VAC tool is that then you get a much larger, more powerful motor and can still use reasonably sized wiring in the circuit.

My old Craftsman radial arm saw is dual voltage, as well as my newer Powermatic bandsaw. I switched the RAS to 240V years ago because the motor starts better, it lagged on 120. But it is still a 2HP (~1500W) motor, regardless of supply voltage.

[Brian Deakin]

I live in the United Kingdom the following sites may be worth a look


www.flinn-garlick-saws.co.uk/‎


www.classichandtools.com
www.dick-gmbh.de (http://www.dick-gmbh.de/) - Japanese tools, select woodworking tools, special tools for instrument making and violin supplies. Excellent


http://www.davidstanley.com/ I believe it is possible to bid on line

regards Brian

[Jim Finn]

Many years ago I toured Norway, Denmark and Sweden and because I was a construction sheet metal worker I looked in hardware stores there for tin snips. I asked for the best they had and I was directed to Wiss Snips that were made in USA and extensively used by US sheet metal workers. I did find some very nice carving gouges there though.

[Chris Fournier]

I was in the UK, miles from where Record and Sorby production took place, the vises, clamps and chisels all cost more than they did in Canada! I bought a 1/8" Sorby chisel because it would have been hard to come by in Canada.

[Mark Andrew]

It is a misconception that 240 VAC tools are more powerful. They just consume 1/2 the current vs. their 120VAC equivalents. A tool motor is rated at "X" watts, and watts is simply volts X amps. Double the voltage, halve the current, and vice versa. One big advantage for 240 is that by running at a lower current, extension cords can be a smaller gauge wire.

the reason you typically get a 240VAC tool is that then you get a much larger, more powerful motor and can still use reasonably sized wiring in the circuit.

My old Craftsman radial arm saw is dual voltage, as well as my newer Powermatic bandsaw. I switched the RAS to 240V years ago because the motor starts better, it lagged on 120. But it is still a 2HP (~1500W) motor, regardless of supply voltage.

Lou, I absolutely agree with you, a Watt is a Watt is a Watt. Current being inversely proportional to voltage, the benefit of 240V is less I^2R loss in the cables.

However, my point is that standard wall outlets in mainland Europe are 240V, 15A. In the UK & Ireland, they are 240V, 13A. In the USA & Canada, they are 120V, 15A. Thus say a German outlet can deliver 3600W, a British one ~3100W, and an American one 1800W.

Tool manufacturers provide higher power tools in Europe to take advantage of this. Take for example the Bosch glide saw. In the US, it is the GCM12SD. It draws 15A max (i.e. an 1800W motor). In Europe, the equivalent glider is the GCM 12 GDL, and has a 2KW motor, drawing 8A or so.

Makita sell the 5143R circular saw. It has a 2200W motor. You just can't buy these in the US.

In the kitchen, Europeans use electric kettles, because they can have 3KW heating elements. In the US, they are not at all popular, because half the power means twice as long to heat the water.

In the yard, the typical pressure washer in Europe is electric powered. The 3KW supply is sufficient to make a decent pressure washer. In the US, you need a gasoline engine to get to the same power.

In Europe, you can buy some seriously powerful tools!

[Peter Kelly]

Where on the continent are you going? Definitely stop by Maik Schulz (http://www.tooltime24.de) if you're in Berlin. Great store.

I'd pick up a Festool Precisio CS 70 (https://www.festool.de/Produkte/Pages/Produktdetailansicht.aspx?pid=561136&name=Tischzugsaege-PRECISIO-CS-70-EB) or a Mafell Erika 85c (http://service.mafell.de/index.php?IdTreeGroup=12970&IdProduct=23187&lang=en) if you're in the market for a compact tablesaw.

[Jeff Erbele]

...Having 220 volt tools in the US is a pain because it's hard to get 220 volts.
...
Europe is also mostly 50 hertz but if the tool you buy has a universal motor that won't make any difference. If the tool has an induction motor, it would make a difference.

Mike

Any modern day, U.S. home is equipped with a 220 VAC Main. It's the standard.

Most modern day induction motors have 50/60 hertz on the name plate. Even if they did not, it would only change the speed slightly but would still work fine in most normal cases.

EDITED TO ADD:
You would have to replace the plug to the US standard.

[Jeff Erbele]

Unless you are packing them in your suitcase to save freight costs, one does not have to go to Europe to buy European tools.
And if you are packing them, there is the matter of declaring them at US Customs, import and duty.
Also consider bag fees, number of bags and weight limits per your airline.

[Lee Reep]

[...]

In Europe, you can buy some seriously powerful tools!

Yes, I definitely misunderstood your meaning of "more power available at the wall socket". I often see comments periodically asking if a tool should be switched to 240 so it will be more powerful ...

But I do have a question. If UK standard is 13A, and mainland is 15A, why the monster plugs in the UK? :)

[phil harold]

I know that anything dealing with electricity is out of scope due to voltage differences.
Rich Fosmoe

Okay lets keep on track he wants hand tools
I am sure you can find infill planes easier in Europe than in the states
Which country/countries are you going to?

maybe visit a factory
http://www.pfeiltools.com/en/home.html
http://www.stubai.com/index_englisch.htm
http://www.kirschen.de/englisch/contact.shtml

maybe visit some antique shoppes

enjoy

[Dennis McDonaugh]

Okay lets keep on track he wants hand tools
I am sure you can find infill planes easier in Europe than in the states
Which country/countries are you going to?

maybe visit a factory
http://www.pfeiltools.com/en/home.html
http://www.stubai.com/index_englisch.htm
http://www.kirschen.de/englisch/contact.shtml

maybe visit some antique shoppes

enjoy

That's what I was thinking--chisels, planes, measuring and marking gauges

[Erik Loza]

That's what I was thinking--chisels, planes, measuring and marking gauges

This ^^^^

IMHO, not worth buying power tools over there and trying to carry them home. There is pretty much no way you or me as private individuals could get a tool of any size or weight back to the States more cheaply than you could just buy it online, here. That being said, I would definitely find a way to visit stores over there. That could be really interesting.

Erik Loza
Minimax USA

[Willem Martins]

I use to frequent Europe 15 years ago, mainly Italy, France, Germany and Spain. Went back for three months last year June-September and it was very disappointing to see how things have changed over the years. Not a lot of woodworking supplies, folks live in small houses, do not access to nice workshops, furniture stores carry square assembly goods, no comparison to the good old USA today. Was different 15 years ago.

[Steve Rozmiarek]

I've never been there, but I'd imagine there are "antique" shops that cater to locals in some places, personally i'd look in one for good infill planes and English wooden planes. Those seem to be the only European tool we can't source here for less, judging by my limited experience.

[Mark Andrew]

Yes, I definitely misunderstood your meaning of "more power available at the wall socket". I often see comments periodically asking if a tool should be switched to 240 so it will be more powerful ...

But I do have a question. If UK standard is 13A, and mainland is 15A, why the monster plugs in the UK? :)

Because they have a fuse in them. European ones are like US ones in that they don't have a fuse in the plug. Although European ones are not polarized. US & UK ones are.

[Jim Becker]

The cost to bring stuff back in your luggage is not insubstantial these days, depending on weight, so be careful about that if you find things you are interested in that will adapt well "back here"... ;)

[Halgeir Wold]

Please note that in most european countries you pay VAT in the order of 20-25%, which is also partly the reason for the higher prices.
There is also a system for reclaiming the VAT when you leave, usually at an airport customs office.

[Thomas Hotchkin]

Take a really large suit case with you then you can fit this in. ; ) Tom

http://www.martin.info/cms/_main/typo3temp/pics/393e3a844c.jpg

[Herr Dalbergia]

In Germany, Berlin, this may be interesting for you:

http://www.feinewerkzeuge.de/

Arnheim, Netherlands:

http://www.baptist.nl/


Depending on where exactly you will travel to, and what you are looking for, I might be able to provide you with more interesting shops.


And, sorry, but we are not all living in small houses and have crappy workshops ;)

Cheers, Alex from bavaria...

[Richard Fosmoe]

All,

thanks for the info. I'll be in Stuttgart, Frankfurt , Essen and Amsterdam. So, if anyone know any wood working shop in those towns please let me know.


rich

[Erik Loza]

http://www.martin.info/cms/_main/typo3temp/pics/393e3a844c.jpg

Hahahahahaaaa...

My wife and I were in Paris last October and stopped into this kitchen store. There were a couple of electric mixers she loved but there would have been no practical way to get one home. She let out this big *sigh* as we walked on.

Erik Loza
Minimax USA

[Tai Fu]

What is the cost to ship equipment by container, and can the average people do it? I looked online and there's no industry price or anything like that. Every company just has an email form which you have to tell them what you are shipping and they will (hopefully) get back to you.

[Rollie Meyers]

Any modern day, U.S. home is equipped with a 220 VAC Main. It's the standard.




110 & 220 volts are not standard voltages in the US, it went away before most or all of us were born. 120/240 volts is the current standard for residential unless it's a large multi-family dwelling then it could be 120/208 volts.

[Rollie Meyers]

Because they have a fuse in them. European ones are like US ones in that they don't have a fuse in the plug. Although European ones are not polarized. US & UK ones are.

The UK ones are plugged into a 32A ring circuit, which is why they are fused.

[Mark Andrew]

The UK ones are plugged into a 32A ring circuit, which is why they are fused.

Correct answer!

[Halgeir Wold]

Just FYI - most of Europe is now standardized at 230V ,- UK I believe is 240...
In practice it makes very little difference....most equipment goes through Europe with no problems......
I'm mostly around 235 in my home outlets....

[Rollie Meyers]

Just FYI - most of Europe is now standardized at 230V ,- UK I believe is 240...
In practice it makes very little difference....most equipment goes through Europe with no problems......
I'm mostly around 235 in my home outlets....

It was standardized to 400/230V, some countries were still 380/220, & some were 415/240V like the UK & France, so 400/230 was the new EU standard, the voltages remained the same but it's all in the allowed tolerance, in Germany it is common for a electric range to be 400V 3 phase.