Saw sharpening and setting

[Gary Kman]

I just read recommendations to a newcomer to set and sharpen his own saws. Don't any of you use a sharpening service? It's a skill I just as soon leave to someone else.

[Sam Stephens]

not as hard as you'd think, and it's not like you'll be doing it that often as compared to a chisel or bench plane iron. full size or panel saws are easier to start w/ b/c of the size. I found this helpful info to get started.

http://www.vintagesaws.com/library/primer/sharp.html

[Roger Rettenmeier]

Sam,

The link you posted is the same one I used to start filing saws. I started with 5 - 7 ppi rip saws because the tooth geometry was easy. I worked my way up to a 16 ppi gents dovetail (which required cheaters). I feel pretty comfortable about my filing anymore.
As for the sharpening service, my closest service is about 100 miles away, and I don't know if they do hand saws. I can get a few files for the price of postage required to send my saws out to a filing service.

[Chris Fournier]

Some woodworkers only work on wood. Some work on their tools that work wood. Still others really only work on tools that work wood.

Saw sharpening is not that difficult and quite frankly I'd trust my efforts over those of a commercial shop when it comes to hand saws.

[Edward Clarke]

It's all well and good to say that beginners should sharpen their own saws, but when you're starting out it would be nice to have a good sharp saw to know what to strive for. I'm collecting the tools to sharpen - have the vise, files and the Lee Valley angle gizmo but I'm going to get my good saws sharpened first and practice on an old rusty Craftsman saw. That should reduce the stress and anxiety about ruining a good tool.

http://www.popularwoodworking.com/woodworking-blogs/chris-schwarz-blog/another-great-place-for-saws-saw-sharpening

That contains a list of really good people to sharpen your saws, at least the first time.

[Tom M King]

Saw sharpening is one of those things that's easy once you know how. If it's wasn't complicated, and didn't require an investment in tools, you'd be in the wrong hobby anyway. I forced myself to learn when the last good handsaw sharpener around here passed on, and I sent my saws to someone else who messed them up to the point that they were useless. Get a vise that holds the saw still, and buy more files than you think you need. Don't throw the files away when they get dull. Get a 42X set, and don't bother with any other variation.

[Bob Easton]

OK. Do it your way. Use a service. If you have one local, great. If they can sharpen while you wait, even better.

In the time you drive to the service, or the post office, or the package delivery service, the rest of us can sharpen a saw and get back to work. In the time you make the second trip to go pick up, we can sharpen another saw. ... and while your saw(s) are away, we'll be using ours.

[Max Withers]

I spent a lot of time worrying about sharpening saws and reading things on the internet, probably more than 100x the time it took me to sharpen my first saw. That was a 5 1/2 pt rip, but then I spent maybe half an hour on a 14 pt crosscut tenon saw. I'm sure Mike or Matt or Tom would do/would have done a better job, but they cut fine. (I have a L-N dovetail saw and an old Disston no. 4 in excellent condition for comparison)

[maximillian arango]

http://www.wkfinetools.com/tRestore/saw/howIfile-Cianci/howIfile-04.asp

Saw this for sharpening saws I liked it because it has pictures and I'm a visual person.

Hate to high jack your thread but you did mention setting so I feel this falls in line. Do more people use the saw setting tool that look like pistol grip pliers or do they hammer them out?

[Jim Foster]

Logan Cabinet Shoppe has several videos on saw sharpening that go a long way to reducing the concerns newcomers may have.

[Chris Fournier]

I suggest sharpening your own because it is easy and not at all hard to do. Study up, have the tools at hand and focus, no big deal. Less is more when it comes to your file work. New file for each saw.

[David Weaver]

http://www.wkfinetools.com/tRestore/saw/howIfile-Cianci/howIfile-04.asp

Saw this for sharpening saws I liked it because it has pictures and I'm a visual person.

Hate to high jack your thread but you did mention setting so I feel this falls in line. Do more people use the saw setting tool that look like pistol grip pliers or do they hammer them out?

Stanley 42x. Or the newer ones, but the 42x is my first choice of everything I've used. It makes a very even set and it does it safely.

[Jessica Pierce-LaRose]

If you're sharpening by hand, with a file, you aren't apt to "ruin" anything, as long as you're using the right files (by which I mean, a proper triangularly shaped file, and not something ridiculously oversized for the teeth you're sharpening) and have a least a basic knowledge of what the geometry is supposed to be. Honestly, five minutes of reading any reasonable online resource should give you an idea of what you should be doing, and that removes the ability to ruin anything. That's the advantage we have now - the information is readily available.

You've got to work really hard at doing it wrong to destroy a saw by hand. Using powered saw machinery is a different option of course. Going by hand, the absolute worse case would be that you lose however much plate height the teeth are, because you had to joint them off to start over. This is probably only apt to happen if you've continued to sharpen things with a whacky geometry, or have a terribly uneven tooth line. You can probably do more harm by poorly cleaning a saw than poorly sharpening one.

Honestly, if I was given my druthers, I'd learn to sharpen on an already good saw, because the rough work is done for you. You can focus on learning the touch and the technique, and not on trying to bring the cumulative effect of years of poor geometry or lack of jointing or what-have-you back into line.

That said, the thing about a saw is that even a saw that's sharpened poorly, if it's at least *sharp*, it's going to cut and work much better than a saw with perfect geometry that's gone dull. I'd rather use something with too much rake, or peg-teeth or something that was at least sharp than a dull one with perfectly shaped teeth.

Learn the basics, build a saw vise, and keep at it, and don't worry about overly fussing over every detail. Keep them in mind, and work towards that goal, of course. If the teeth are sharp and the points in a reasonably even plane, it'll work well enough.

A lot of it depends on what the majority of the sawing you do is, of course. If all you're doing is dovetailing and some little joinery work, maybe you can get by with having someone else sharpen your blades. I can cut an awful lot of dovetails before I need to sharpen that little guy. A dovetail saw, while tiny, is a lot easier to sharpen than you'd think, though, because it's rip cut. I can often get by with just a quick, single swipe in each tooth.

Where learning to sharpen on your own is key is if you are doing any sort of panel/hand saw work on a regular basis. Ripping by hand becomes a lot less fun, and a lot less accurate when the saw is dull, and your body will tell you right away. In the past, I have done enough work over stretches that I needed to sharpen my saws each day. But rip saw like that, once in shape, can be sharpened really quickly if it's not terribly out of shape, and freshly sharpened teeth save you more than the time it took to sharpen them.

[Jared McMahon]

Not a darn thing wrong with having a pro sharpen saws for you. When you get them back, you can see how a well-done job looks and try to replicate that on some beat-up rusty ones you pulled out of a $1 flea market barrel-o'-saws. Making a simple saw vise is easy, and buying files onesy-twosy is pretty cheap. That way, you can touch up your saws when they start to get a little slow and ragged, which is pretty simple. If you like it, or find you have a knack for it, then feel free to go nuts from there.

I learned how to sharpen saws because I like them and wanted to spend some quality time with them. It's also a quirky obscure skill you can pull out of your back pocket; you don't meet many saw doctors nowadays. It's worth it to know at least the basics to do touch up work, but if you don't like it, there are plenty of people out there willing to take your money and your saw, and send the saw back to you cutting like a dream.

[Ron D Davis]

Glad to see this post come up, as I am very interested in it myself, and I might be the newcomer mentioned?? Anyway, this is the kind of information that I was looking for many reasons. The saw Dr. that I knew about in my area is long gone, and I know no one else who does it. Also, I have more time than money and I would at this point in time rather learn to do it myself till the money situation changes. As a true newcomer, I have made mistakes already, one paying probably more than I should have for a couple of vintage Disston saws off the bay just to get them when I probably would have been better off just getting a couple at the big box store and using them. These mistakes were made a couple years ago before I knew how great this forum was, but I still want to restore them and use them which means I need to learn to sharpen them. I enjoy that kind of thing, it gets the day job out of my mind. I also think it teaches me patience which is something that I sure need more of. Either way I think we will all get to the same point which ever way its done, I am just one of the folks who likes to do things for myself, and learning is part of it. Hope this is not taken wrong, as I really do appreciate the post.
Ron

[David Nighswander]

If you would rather send out a saw to be set and sharpened than spend time on learning how I fully support your position. I can and do sharpen saws. I don't spend time making planes. I'd rather use a Stanley and get on with it. Each of us determines what we like or don't like about our hobbies or professions.
I had a local guy who sharpened my first 2 hand saws who moved away. I learned by necessity.

[Daniel Hartmann]

Are the teeth all the same height and well shaped? If so the actual sharpening part goes very quickly and is really quite simple. Even if the teeth need jointing and shaping it's pretty simple although a little more time consuming. I was embarrassed after I finally started sharpening my own saws that I held off for so long. The biggest obstacle between you and a well performing saw will be the condition of the teeth now, it won't do much good to sharpen teeth that need jointing or are badly shaped.

[Gary Kman]

If anyone wants a PHD in saw sharpening, search SHARPENING WESTERN SAWS on youtube.
It's over two hours long and the first thing on the internet I ever sent a donation (to his village festival per his request) . He really put a great deal of work in it and is likely better than anything on TV some night soon.

[william nelson colorado]

Thanks for the information, Gary.

[Ron D Davis]

Thanks Gary very good information, I had not found that yet.

[Jim Matthews]

You might want to reconsider sending saws out, when you find the return times quite long.

I would rather get a passable saw in twenty minutes, than an excellent saw in six weeks.
Check Matt Cianci's lag times, he posts those up front on his site.

There are certainly degrees of refinement that the professionals bring, but it is an elemental tool.

[John Dorough]

Gary,

Thank you very much for the reference to the video.

You are absolutely correct. This is one of the finest woodworking videos I've ever seen in terms of both content and videography.

Brit01425, as the gentleman is known, is a master craftsman. Of equal importance for would-be saw sharpeners, he is a master teacher. I mean that seriously. He is a gifted speaker (in terms of getting his message across succinctly) and, he knows how to use visual aids in such a way as to make every important aspect perfectly clear. All the big boys, Chris Schwarz, Roy Underhill, Rob Cosman, Highland Woodworking, Lee-Nielsen, Leigh, Kreg, etc., etc., should watch and learn.

I know my own personality and proclivities. I will never, ever sharpen a saw. That is not the point of this post. The point is that whether one ever wants to follow this fellow's instruction or simply enjoys watching entertaining, informative, top-flight woodworking videos for the sheer fun of it, this video is a must-watch.

Thanks, again, for making SMC aware of it.

John