Electric vs Lithium ion drills

[Don Morris]

Heretofore, I've preferred my Dewalt electric drill for the most part, rather than the NiCad battery version which I also have. For the last several days I helped put together a project, mostly wood, and some plywood. This was done in a wharehouse for a high school Robotics team practice field for their robot. I must say the Dads, as I was the only grandfather, who came with their lithium ion drills seemed to be able to drill very quickly, with just as much or more control, and didn't run out of battery charge while doing the same work as I did with my electric drill. Of course I had the hassle of a long extension cord. The point was, once at the site, I thought I would have the advantage with an electric drill. Not so. I was also envious of the small size of some of the drills. They got into tighter spots than I could have without the hassle of the cord. You can select a lower torque on many models, a handy feature I found about. I predrilled one screw in some plastic but still cracked the plastic a little when putting the screw home. The guy next to me didn't, said he had put his drill on "Low torque".

I just haven't paid much attention because I remember several years ago a question on SMC about what members preferred, and the electric drill won. I wonder if that same question were asked now if the results would be the same. Without hesitation I chose electric before, but I'm not sure now. Are you guys/gals shifting to lithium ion?

[William C Rogers]

My answer is yes. I still use my old craftsman electric for pocket hole drilling and a few other jobs. I use my 12v driver for 90% of screw installation. I use my 12v drill for most pilot holes. I also have a 12v impact, which has a lot of torque, but is loud. I have two 18v drills, one with high torque and one less torque,but lighter. My li-ion drills are Hitachi. Not necessarily a fan, but I got them reconditioned and prefer the feel of these tools. I was skeptical at first how a 12v would be useful after using some of the 6-9v tools that didn't do much. I was amazed how well they work. Batteries last a long time and recharge quickly. World of difference from the NiCa batteries. My 12v driver easily drives 3 inch screws. For harder wood or lag screws I use the 12v impact. Get the li-ion and I don't think you will be disappointed.

[Charles Lent]

Yes. I have a fleet of 18 volt DeWalt tools and lithium ion batteries for them. I also have a pair of Makita 14 volt driver/drills with ni-cad batteries. I prefer the DeWalt. Lithium ion batteries. They have a much longer life than ni-cad and they don't develop memory problems. Lithium batteries are more expensive to buy, but have a much longer usable life.

Charley

[Peter Quinn]

I haven't used nicad drills in over a decade. That technology had some serious drawbacks, and the drills made at the time weren't as advanced as what is presently availably either. Try the new ones. I switched to NiMH as soon as they became available, and have almost completely gone to Li Ion cordless drills. I have a milwakee 12V system that does most of my screw driving and pilot hole or small hole drilling. Its small size and lighter weight are an advantage on ladders or long work days where the heavier drills start to wear you out, still plenty of power for 90% of what I do. I have a makita compact 18V drill driver for larger drill bits and longer screws, and an impact driver for driving longer screws and lags which also works well with speed bore bits for occasional rough holes. I still see a place for corded electric drills. Pocket screws comes to mind, most cordless drills operate below the suggested 2K rpm speed, my corded drill operates at 2200RPM and will maintain that easily under load and over time. I'f I'm drilling a few quick holes for a jig, I'll probably chuck up a cordless anyway, if I'm drilling all the holes for a large project, definitely corded. For professional work there a high torque low RPM drill is often needed to punch large holes through plates and studs. I use a 1/2" 300RPM Millers Falls drill from my grandfather to mix 5 gal buckets of mortar for tiling...try that with a cordless drill!


I guess ultimately its a balance of hole size, frequency, job location and the total number of holes needed. I noticed when the electrician wired my garage he used both corded and cordless. For drilling the hundreds of 3/4" holes to chase wires through studs and a few large diameter holes for conduit he still chucked up the electric drills, for a few quick holes in more remote locations like the garage attic, cordless was used. One nice feature of cordless drills for amateurs is the clutch. Let go of the trigger.....drill stops. I've seen more than a few guys that didn't quite know how to handle an electric drill get it bound up and wind up with smashed knuckles or wrist injuries.

[Earl Rumans]

I had the DeWalt NiCad cordless drill and to me it wasn't really worth that much. I still had to get out my corded drill for anything heavy duty and the charge didn't last at all. I haven't used my corded drill since I got my first Milwaukee Lithium battery model, a V18 version. I have upgraded to all Milwaukee Lithium tools over the years and their new Fuel series is unbelievable, in what it can do. I have their Fuel series in both the M18 and M12 versions. The new Fuel M12 drill is so light, compact and powerful that I don't use the Fuel M18, which is itself very compact, that much anymore. The M12 will handle about 80% of my tasks. I break out the M18 when I really need the extra power and torque for something. You should really check them out.

[Jim Andrew]

There is a joke about a carpenter who went skydiving for the first time. He took a extension cord along, as he said he knew it would get caught on something if his chute didn't open.

[Craig Hoehn]

With modern lithium ion batteries I dont see any advantage to having a power cord. I recently purchased a Milwaukee M18 fuel hammer drill and impact driver and these things pack one heck of a punch, 3" long deck screws in framing are not a problem and the impact will drive it in in under 2 seconds. The 4 Ahr battery will last all day with continuous use at a job site. I usually lean towards buying more powerful tools thats why I got the M18 and you can dial back the torque settings and power output which comes in handy because this thing is overkill for most common tasks. If you are only doing light assembly work you might even want to consider the M12.

[Bruce Lowekamp]

I still have a corded drill that is my hammer drill and I use for massive things like hole saws. But that's pretty much it.

I use a lightweight Makita LCT200 (same 18V driver but with a smaller battery pack) that is very easy to move around and more than enough for the shop and around the house. The batteries fast-charge in 15 minutes, so if I'm doing something with constant drilling, I just keep them charging. I remodeled my kitchen last year and it's more than enough power to run auger bits through joists, etc. Can't do quite as much as Craig's cordless hammer drill, but I don't find myself needing that often enough to carry around the extra weight.

[Art Mann]

I think I used a plug in drill maybe once last year. I consider them to be largely obsolete.

[glenn bradley]

I keep corded drill for applications where speed is a concern. The upside is that a quality corded drill can lay in a drawer for months and be immediately ready when called upon. I would not, however, like to be without my lithium units.

P.s. I had never heard the joke about the skydiving carpenter; that's great.

[Loren Woirhaye]

Li-on is nice. I like the 12v format because it gets a lot of things done and the batteries are not too expensive. You get into the higher voltage formats and the batteries are spendier and also clustered in the pack so they retain heat more. Heat wrecks batteries of all kinds. If you let you batteries cool thoroughly before recharging you'll probably have longer life from them. The Li-on batteries can catch on fire, so they have circuits in them to prevent that. If you trip the circuit, the battery thinks it has become defective and it shuts down for good and you'll have to replace it. Ni-cads and NIMH batteries don't have this issue. Li-on battery tools are pretty sweet all things considered. A corded drill is still the right tool for some jobs.

[Tai Fu]

Im curious about Li Ion drills... we hear a lot about cell phones and laptops exploding, what if you accidently drop a Li Ion drill and it explodes?

[Dennis McDonaugh]

The only thing I used a corded drill for in the last five years was to drill holes in concrete.

[Jon Shank]

I had some old Ni-cad tools that I was always pretty unimpressed with. I mean they did the job for the most part but battery life was pretty short and got worse and worse over time. I still had the corded drill out most of the time, and just stopped bothering with the Ni-cads after a while. I picked up a set of Lithium battery tools after using some at work and the difference is really pretty amazing. Now I use lower cost cordless, Ryobi stuff. But the Ryobi 1+ tools all take the new lithium batteries so sticking with the same brand made sense. The drills were workable when the Ni-cads were new, but not great. The reciprocating saw and circular saw were really almost useless from the get go. Now, same tools, new Lithium batteries, they are all good useable tools. Even the saws cut about as well as my older corded versions, although granted not for as long(within their capacity, the circular saw is only good for about inch thick material for instance, dinky little thing). If I'm doing a bunch of demo, I'm probably going to grab the corded saw, but for 90% of little jobs, it's cordless all the way. And the drills are amazingly better. The clutch and high/low speed settings are great and they last for a real good long time now. I've got the old Ni-cad drill running with one Lithium battery, and the new green drill that got me into the Lithium with another one (both the Lithium small, low capacity batteries) and I can drill pilot holes with one and drive the screws with the other all day long without charging. I have one of the larger high capacity batteries and it can run the Circular, recipricating, jig saws for as long as I have ever needed them (not a contractor or anything), and it will even run the weedwacker I picked up for long enough to get my yard cleaned up. If I didn't already have all those Ryobi cordless tools I would have gone with a better brand nowadays, great bang for the buck but you can see and feel the difference in quality with a Dewalt or Bosch, etc. I know that corded drill is still hanging around but I can't remember the last time I had to pull it out.

Really is night and day between the 2 battery types.

Jon

[Duane Meadows]

Im curious about Li Ion drills... we hear a lot about cell phones and laptops exploding, what if you accidently drop a Li Ion drill and it explodes?

They don't explode from dropping. They can swell or expand enough to bust the case they are in, generally from over charging/old age. Haven't seen one where shrapnel was involved!

[Loren Woirhaye]

The batteries catching fire or exploding really isn't a concern I think. They will just shut down and not work anymore. You absolutely should not open a pack to attempt to reboot or repair a Li-on battery.

[Rick Potter]

Get out of the 90's Gramps,

Take it from another senior....get a 12 V set. I have Milwaukee M12's, and love them. If I were buying today, I would look at the DeWalts also, the newest crop have brushless motors, and are even smaller and lighter.

Be sure to check out the capacity of the one you decide on. Milwaukee M12 for example takes four different capacity batteries.

Rick Potter

[george newbury]

My son had me buy into the DeWalt 20 "max" set. I'm impressed with the drills and lifespan of a charge. I'm also impressed with the cost. I was wanting to get the jigsaw. But couldn't bring my self to spending the $160, instead bought a $30 Ryobi.

[Bryan Cramer]

I just saw an ad for a Porter Cable corded impact driver.:confused: Is this tool even practical? Here it is (http://www.acmetools.com/shop/tools/porter-cable-pce201). I will say that I use my corded drill for pocket screws most of the time. If I need to do any continuous work like free hand drum sanding I will use a corded drill. I have a rule of thumb of always keeping a corded drill around at all times as a backup and to save some wear on my batteries for continuous use.

[Terry Therneau]

The lithium are great -- until it gets cold. A building project got a bit late this fall at my place, temps down in the low 30s, and the carpenters on the site didn't even bother to take cordless tools out of the truck. I went to saw one 2x4 with my Makita reciprocating and a fully charged battery, and it didn't make it half way through.
In the shop though, my 1/2" D-handle slow speed Milwaukee gets pulled out once in a great while for a big hole saw, and the tight quarters drill a little bit more often, but by and large they corded drills rest in peace in their cases.

[fred klotz]

Performance wise, I believe the cordless can do most of what a corded drill can. I've used drills professionally for about 40 years, and currently have a fair number of both corded and cordless, all in quality brand names. I service my own tools, so have seen the insides of most of them at some point.

Longevity is where a quality corded tool will win out over a quality cordless tool. Take a corded and a cordless that you feel are at the same performance level. Remove the battery from the cordless. Notice how much lighter it is. Look inside the two tools and you'll see drastically different innards.

Cordless tools usually become obsolete due to battery technology before wearing out. Corded tools can last for generations. I have some that are probably almost as old as I am. Oldest cordless goes back maybe 20 yrs (9.6v Bosch) still working, but had much lighter use than any corded drill I have.

If the weight and cord aren't a real draw back, I use the corded. For work at the bench, in awkward places, and light duty away from the shop and power line, the cordless rules.

For my purposes, if I could only have one power drill, it would be corded, backed up by the original cordless, a hand brace.( which I also have several of)

[Don Morris]

OK, OK, I'm sold, will have to watch for President Day sales. Thanks for the input people. Just hadn't been keeping up with the times.

[Sam Whit]

I use corded only. Can't remember a time I have regretted it. I do remember when I got rid of my dewalt cordless because 2 new batteries cost almost as much as the new drill.

[Earl Rumans]

Don, Home Depot has the full line of Milwaukee drills, you should drop by and check them out. Just make sure it's the new Fuel series you are looking at.

[Rich Enders]

Don,

In addition to the issue with lack of cold performance mentioned by Terry, we all need to keep in mind that these batteries contain a flammable electrolyte which is pressurized. Overheating, accidental shorting, and damage has lead to ignition. I have no direct experience, but on reading up on the current state of the technology it makes one think twice.

We have all heard of the 787, Tesla, and Prius battery fires. This is not a problem for power tools because they have internal shut-down circuitry to minimize the chance of a fire. However spare lithium ion batteries are not similarly protected, and because of this are not allowed in the passenger compartment of a commercial aircraft, and will not be shipped by the post office overseas for example to our military.

With proper caution this is probably not a big concern, but they cannot just be taken for granted.

[John Coloccia]

I wish someone would make a corded drill that:

1) balanced like cordless
2) had torque/gear feature like a cordless
3) had a brake like a cordless
4) had a great trigger

I would still have a cordless in my shop, but I would use the corded much more. In fact, I would probably plug it into one of my elevated outlets, and hang it from the ceiling, ready at a moment's notice. As it is, cordless drills have almost every advantage over corded drills for general shop use, and it irritates me to no end that I have to keep on charging/replacing batteries to keep them going.

re: Li-ion fires
It's a real danger, but it's overblown. Chargers are very conservative. The circuitry in the battery itself is very conservative. The cases are built very tough so accidental damage is pretty rare. Don't drive a punch through the case. If you smell something like bubble gum coming from the battery pack, maybe it's leaking. Other than that, Li-ion, LIPO, etc are generally pretty safe in consumer gear.

Hobbyists using these packs get themselves in trouble because we use them a lot more aggressively, and in much harsher conditions, plus a lot of setups are home grown and the workmanship is...uhm...well, let's just say if someone asked me, I would tactfully suggest that they take a soldering and electronics class with me before butchering any more of that poor equipment that never did anything to deserve that kind of treatment.

[mreza Salav]

I have many cordless ones (from little 10.8v Makita to fully hammer drill 18V ones) but for my recent job of drilling 1/2" dowels I got tired of draining my corldless ones (I would drain the battery faster than the other one would charge). So went out and bought a new corded drill (Milwaukee). I think each one has its use and none replaces the other completely.

[Eric Schubert]

Another vote to check out the Milwaukee cordless tools. I'd always used cheaper cordless tools and finally shelled out for the Milwaukee M18 drill/driver combo kit. HOLY MOLY, what a difference a good tool makes! The batteries are powerful and last much longer than my old drill. The M18 FUEL is even better, but the standard M18's work wonderfully for me.

[Tai Fu]

However low quality manufacturing has led to some cell phones/laptops exploding. It's not necessarily overcharging (chargers have built in circuitry to prevent that) but internal shorts, damages (drive a knife through them for example) can and does lead to fires or even a nice loud bang. Li Poly batteries are supposedly less aggressive when it comes to explosion but it can still burst into flame when punctured. Other batteries simply leak if overcharged/damaged.

So don't cheap out on batteries...

[John Hays]

I use corded only. Can't remember a time I have regretted it. I do remember when I got rid of my dewalt cordless because 2 new batteries cost almost as much as the new drill.

This ^

Call me old school, but I don't need the headache of babysitting a battery in my shop. When I want a drill to work, I plug it in. I would even go as far to say that costwise a corded drill gives you a better bang for the buck, simply because you don't have to buy a new power source every year or two. In fact, I've had the same 2 Black & Decker drills for nearly 20 years and only one of them is just now starting to wear out.

Now if I were always working away from my shop, then yes, cordless is the way to go... but that's not the case for me.

[Rich Engelhardt]

Mixing mud &/or thin set with a cordless is really tough on the drill.
I have a couple of corded drills for that.

I also bought a low end Bosch 1/2" hammer drill to use for pocket screws.
It's a decent small corded drill & the hammer feature was a low cost bonus.

[Jason Roehl]

Here's my take.

Cordless drills, no matter the battery technology, have DC motors which excel at low-speed/high-torque applications, meaning driving screws. They can be made to run at higher speeds through gearing, but that's more parts, which is either more weight (metal gears), or more points of failure (plastic gears). I've also found that my cordless drills do much better at mixing drywall mud (again, low-speed/high-torque) than my not-cheap corded drill (a Milwaukee 1/2" hammer drill that was about $180 new, 15 years ago).

Corded drills excel at high-speed/low-torque applications, like mixing paint or drilling holes with twist bits. The higher speed helps eject the shavings from a twist bit, so they stay cooler. I was once doing a trim job in a log cabin, using pocket holes on the back of the 1x trim to pre-assemble it, and my corded drill was easily twice as fast at drilling the holes as my cordless at full charge. It wasn't even close.

As for batteries, cold preserves batteries because it slows down the internal chemical reactions that produce the voltage and current. This also reduces performance, as reduced voltage also means reduced torque in a DC motor.

When it comes to initial performance, though, there is no difference between NiCd, NiMH, LiPo, and Li-ion within a given voltage--but they do differ in how long they will hold a charge unused, and in total charge stored (Amp-hours). Not to mention, cordless tools that come with Li-ion don't really compare to the NiCd cordless tools of 15 years ago for the simple fact that the manufacturing processes have improved immensely, making the tools more efficient internally.

All that said, I have a P-C 14.4V system, with over a dozen batteries, several drills, a flashlight and trim saw. The batteries are a mix of NiCd and NiMH (bought used off this board from someone who rebuilt them and supplied an aftermarket NiMH charger). I bought the initial drill probably 15 years ago or so, it's since been replaced. I intend to keep the system going, but just last week also upgraded to a 18V Bosch Li-ion drill and impact driver kit which will definitely be my go-to cordless drills. Bee's knees (except that they're not the latest tech of brushless motors--a feature of dubious value in my mind).

[Dennis McDonaugh]

This ^

Call me old school, but I don't need the headache of babysitting a battery in my shop. When I want a drill to work, I plug it in. I would even go as far to say that costwise a corded drill gives you a better bang for the buck, simply because you don't have to buy a new power source every year or two. In fact, I've had the same 2 Black & Decker drills for nearly 20 years and only one of them is just now starting to wear out.

Now if I were always working away from my shop, then yes, cordless is the way to go... but that's not the case for me.

There's no doubt that a corded drill is a way better investment if you are just using cost as a comparison. I've owned thee corded drills in my lifetime. The first was a $19.95, 3/8" Black and Decker that lasted 20 years before the bearings gave up the ghost. The second was a 1/2" Skill that I paid $29.95 for and I still have it. I also have a De Walt that I paid $70 for when my tools were in storage. I've spent a whole lot more on cordless drills over the years. One replacement battery usually cost more than the original drill with two batteries so normally I just recycle the batteries, chuck the drill and buy new. I did have a Rigid 12V that I liked so much I had the battery pack rebuilt, but one caught fire so I got rid of them. To me, the convenience of the cordless tools is worth the price of admission.

[Rich Enders]

Dennis,

Noted your problem with the Ridgid. What happened to their lifetime warranty including battery replacements........

[Don Morris]

After reading all the above, I settled on a Milwaukee 18v FUEL 1/4" hex impact driver kit, but will keep my Dewalt electric for "just in case".

[Earl Rumans]

Don, clean out your in box I tried to send you something but it's full.

[Chris Friesen]

Cordless drills, no matter the battery technology, have DC motors which excel at low-speed/high-torque applications, meaning driving screws. They can be made to run at higher speeds through gearing, but that's more parts, which is either more weight (metal gears), or more points of failure (plastic gears). I've also found that my cordless drills do much better at mixing drywall mud (again, low-speed/high-torque) than my not-cheap corded drill (a Milwaukee 1/2" hammer drill that was about $180 new, 15 years ago).

With a corded drill you need to pick the right tool for the job. Your hammer drill is geared for high-speed operation, maybe 3000rpm. I have a corded drill that tops out at 1200rpm that does just fine for general duty, and some of the larger 1/2" drive corded drills top out at 300rpm which is perfect for mixing drywall mud and running big hole saws.