Use Cases for 20° bevel angle - paring chisels

[Curt Putnam]

As I prepare to hone my new Narex paring chisels, I thought I would knock the primary bevel down to 20° and then let the secondary bevel increase as needed. A couple folks have said I should leave the primary at 25°. This brings up a couple questions. Are there use cases for a 20° angle? If so, will the Narex steel handle i?

Thanks for your kind help, Curt

[Mike Henderson]

I put a primary bevel of 25 degrees on mine but then add a higher angle secondary bevel. A paring chisel might use a 20 degree bevel but that bevel won't stand up to any mallet use.

I'm not familiar with the Narex steel but from what I hear about the chisels, it should hold up as well as almost any other chisel at 20 degrees.

Mike

[David Weaver]

Paring softwoods. It'll probably take some damage as you're going, but you're not going to use the chisel too many other places.

The narex has as good of a chance as anything else at similar angles. No chisel that I've used will work at 20 degrees without taking damage as you go along (as opposed to a chisel at 28/29 degrees that will fail very slowly if used properly).

But it's up to you to figure out where the edge durability is at that angle for you, and decide then if you feel like you're getting benefits from it.

I personally don't do it. I chop most places that some people pare, and if I do pare, it's usually not directly across end grain or if it is, it's in incremental bites along a marked line. It's more often that I'd pare full width on something like chamfers, and that's easy paring. Edge failures irritate me more than most people. I've not got a lot of tolerance for overhard irons or shallow beveled chisels.

[Chris Griggs]

I go 25 at the lowest for the reasons above. I've never been happy with any chisel of any steel at 20 degrees in the woods I use and for the work I do. If I were paring lots of softwood I might feel differently. IIRC when John Coloccia did a video review of the worksharp and Henry Taylor parers he reground them to 20 and was quite pleased. But I believe he is primarily using them in sitka spruce for his guitar bodies which is pretty different from what I do.

[Jim Koepke]

Following what has been already said:

It really depends on the user and the woods being used.

It will likely not be a good choice for using with a mallet or very hard woods.

It works for me fine on soft woods being cut with only hand pressure.

I think one of my favorite paring chisels might actually be at 15º.

Sharpen one to the lower angle and see how it does.

jtk

[Jeff Heath]

I pare a lot. My paring chisels are all Greenlee, and I ground them to 20°, with a slight secondary polished bevel. I like my paring chisels at this angle because it's easier to pare with. I use my tools every day, and sharpen every day, so I don't worry about that. For sure, as stated, the edge is not durable, but it sure can take a nice, fine shaving easier than a higher bevel.

I cannot speak to Narex, so can't help there. You will have to experiment and see if they will work with a lower angle. That's the only thing that matters.....not anything said here is going to change the steel on your chisels. If my Greenlee's couldn't handle it, then I would increase the bevel angle until they could, 2° at a time.

It's always a good thing to hear what others are doing, as it's a good place to start, if you're not sure. You have to experiment with different settings on your tools to really find out what they can and cannot handle. Once you've done that, you'll spend more time working wood, and less time fiddling around with the tools.

[Jim Koepke]

Checked my paring chisels while in the shop today.

My favorite, a 1" Buck Brothers is actually at a little less than 15º. One is actually at 20º and the rest are between 15 and 20º.

My accumulation of chisels has duplication in most sizes. For most mallet work 25 - 30° is used.

jtk

[Derek Cohen]

Hi Curt

You should say what you have in mind for the low bevel angle?

I must admit that I have not used chisels with a bevel angle as low as this. I recall Charles regaling us frequently about the benefits of a "whisp removed" with a 20 degree parer, but I seem to have managed this with chisels in the 25 - 30 degree range.

It may be the difference in the woods we use. Paring hardwood endgrain is hard on chisel steel. It is hard work full stop! Edges under 30 degrees crumble when the chisel is used with mallet, even when taking the finest of slices. Anything wider than 1/16" really benefits from 35 degrees. The point I want to make here is that edges are very fragile at 20 degrees, and I am not sure if this is recommended for anyone but the most experienced. I use Japanese slicks, which have quite substantial blades compared to Western paring chisels. These are traditionally honed at 25 degrees.


Regards from Perth

Derek

[Jim Koepke]

Derek,

Here in the Pacific North West even some of our hardwoods are soft. Alder is growing all over my property and we use scraps from the mills for firewood and an occasional project. I have harvested some of the wood from my property and hope to do some more in the near future. My neighbor says his cabinets are made of alder because that was alder 't he could afford. It looks nice quarter sawn, but most of the sawyers up here look at you funny when you mention quarter sawing.

Paring end grain on this soft stuff is difficult enough. A low angle helps a lot.

Most of the woods around here I test for hardness by how far I can sink my thumbnail into it.

Of course when I work with hardwoods like maple, ash, apple, oak or the other "real" hardwoods higher angles are required.

With all the variables from woods available in ajtk location to the person doing the work the milage is sure to vary.

Just for the experience factor it is a good idea to pick up some inexpensive junker chisels so one can play around with different bevel angles to see the results and get an idea of what works for their own environment and methods.

jtk

[Tom M King]

282549282548I have some Marples Boxwood handled chisels I bought new in the 1970s, that hold a 20 degree bevel, or even less. I only use this chisel as a Paring chisel. It will take a similar shaving on end grain Boxwood, but I didn't think to take a picture of it doing that.

Here are a couple of pictures I took while working on a recent project for a discussion on sharpening. The light colored shaving was taken with a Stanley block plane from Yellow Pine, and it measures a thousandth and a tenth inch thick. The chisel is taking a paring shaving off of a Heart Pine tenon cheek off cut that was laying nearby.

This chisel help fit several hundred Heart Pine tenons on a window sash project, going on when I took these pictures, without needing honing but once that I remember. I recently used it for trimming window glazing in a unique process I have for that, and it has not been honed since the sash project started. These pictures were taken when the sash project was about halfway done. Finish honing was done on Diamond Lapping Film, sold by Lee Valley, that I keep mounted on a small surface plate.

Heart Pine with grain this tight has a Janka of a little more than White Oak, and is very brittle. The small shavings were too fragile to unroll to measure, without breaking apart. You can see that it is a shaving though, and not scraped dust. It works fine on any wood.

This is my first post on these forums, and the method of attaching photos here is different than any of the other forums that I'm a member of, so I haven't learned to control their location in a post, or order, yet.

[Bobby O'Neal]

In a class recently, I used Rob Cosman's 17 degree Lie Nielsen. I believe he arrived at that by trial and error and does not use it to pound away on something but it is super sharp and peels end grain with ease. I believe it was maple that I used it in. Really good steel and careful application, I'd say, and in this case it works.

[Curt Putnam]

I want to thank all of you who have responded thus far. Thought I would add two things: 1st, by paring chisel I mean only hand power - no striking. 2nd, my woods are/will be redwood, alder, poplar, maples (hard & soft), cherry and walnut plus random other (working with African Mahogany now and have a little Koa.) I have mortise chisels for severe beating and Veritas PM-V11 bench chisels for all around use. I also have a couple highly prized Blue Spruce paring chisels. These are in A2 and will stay at 25°.

I'm thinking that perhaps the thing to do is to re-grind 1 or 2 primary bevels at 20° and see what happens. Adding a higher angled secondary bevel is easy if need be.