Starrett combination square

[jeff zambron]

is it worth the extra money to get the hardned forged heads over the cast iron ones thanks

[Jim Neeley]

Only if you drop the tool on a hard surface. Cast iron is brittle and more likely to crack.

[Benjamin Miller]

For woodworking, it's probably not necessary to spend the $100+ on a Starrett, when a nice $20 one from the home center is functionally identical, but if you want the absolute best money can buy...

In theory, cast iron has fewer stresses and is less likely to warp. In practice, I doubt either of these would move a noticeable amount even if you were checking with a dial indicator.

Starrett invented the combination square for metalworking. In that application, I could see a forged head taking a beating and lasting longer.

[phil harold]

I say get the hardened one
It will stay accurate longer
this is an adjustable square and with repeated use and abuse the casting does wear and will go out of wack
I have had many twenty dollar ones that only last a short time in wood working and carpentry
my mitutoyo, brown&sharp, and starrett squares have lasted me over 17 years and still accurate

[Kyle Iwamoto]

+1 on not spending a hundred bucks on a square when a Craftsman will do the same job. BUT, that being said, there is a lot of PERSONAL enjoyment gained when I use my 100 buck Starrett to make a 90 degree mark that is no better than the one I get from my Craftsman. Or the 20 buck one from the big box store. The Starrett resides in it's nice box most of the time. The other 2 get used more, since I really don't care if it falls off the table saw.

If you have the means, get the forged. Yes, it does not make ME a better woodworker.....

[lowell holmes]

I have the 65 dollar Starrett and I wouldn't be without it. It's worth every penny to me. It operates smoother than the borg squares and the graduations stay on the blade.

I agree with Phil.

The square was a present 10 or 12 years back.

[Chris Fournier]

I have had a CI Starrett for well over 20 years and it is the bee's knees. I use teflon spray or a quick lick of paste wax on it to keep it running smoothly and not wearing. When you pick up the Starret if urges you to do great work. When you pick up a box store square you feel like a house framer. I like house framing and have a $20 box store square which I wore out and had to replace.

1/64" scale that is readable is Starrett as well. If I amortize my Starret(s) (one in the wood shop and one in the machine shop) over their life span they are worth ever penny!

Now would I use a Starret for house framing? No I would not.

[Charles Coolidge]

I laugh in the general direction of cheap Home Depot/Craftsman squares buy the Starrett. I'd pay less attention to cast iron vs forged head and more attention to the rule. For those of us who's eyes are getting older the 'satin chrome' rules are easier to read. I have both 12" and 24" and use both often.

[Mark Wooden]

For woodworking, there's no appreciable difference in the cast iron head vs the forged steel, even in a production environment. I have both, both are equally accurate.There is a HUGE difference between precision squares made by Starrett, B&S, Mitutoyo (and a few others) and the "hangin' on a peg" squares found at the home centers and hardware stores. With a quality square you will layout clean, square lines; they're useful for machine set-up also. With the die cast head and chrome plated scale found on most stuff in the Borgs these days accuracy is very hit and miss (mostly miss) and they aren't designed to last, they want you to keep buying them. Buy the best you can afford, cry once, don't look back and be happy.
FWIW, there are a lot of used cast iron and cast steel square heads around by Stanley, Millers Falls, Sargent, even old Craftsman that were very good tools worth doing an accuracy check on and buying if found

[Larry Edgerton]

A square is a lifetime investment, so if you amortize the difference by however many years that you intend to use it, the cost difference is negligible.

I have a Mitutoyo forged set that I bought 30 years ago, and every time I use them I love the way they fall to the hand. I think it was well worth the investment.

Larry

[John Coloccia]

I would also lean towards Mitutoyo for something like this.

re: cheap combo squares
Common, guys. I'm assuming the guy isn't framing a barn. Even though it's woodworking, I still try to work to a very high degree of precision. You must make allowances for the wood squirming around, but if you're sloppy to begin with, and sloppy every step of the way, your stack up error can absolutely dwarf the wood movement itself. My philosophy is to work to as high a precision as I can, and design with the loosest tolerances I can. Then, everything always fits.

Incidentally, I do happen to have a cheap combo square here. It is absolutely dead nuts. I don't know where I got it from. I also don't know where I got the other 2 or 3 combos I have in the shop, and they're all absolute junk. I should just toss them.

[Richard Wagner]

Quality tools are great; especially if you can afford the "investment". On the other hand, my Stanley Combination Square and Framing Square have served me well for many, many years.

Besides, just how precise a square do general wood workers need? Whether measured by a Stanley or a Starrett, ninety degrees is ninety degrees. .

[Rich Riddle]

is it worth the extra money to get the hardened forged heads over the cast iron ones thanks

If you exclusively utilize the combination square for woodworking, it's not worth the extra money to purchase the forged Starrett over the cast iron one. If you also do other activities, such as metal working, it would be worth it to have the forged head. Your utilization determines your needs with the Starrett you have in question.

[Robert LaPlaca]

Since you asked specifically about Starrett, yes I would spend the extra money to get the forged head, I believe all the Starrett forged head combo squares are finished with a gloss black finish. The forged head keeps it's accuracy much better at the critical wear point (where the head and ruler slides) than does the cast head.

[Rich Engelhardt]

Hartville Hardware has all the Starrett stuff on sale the 21st for 20% off.
It's a 2 day only sale on Friday and Saturday.

[John Downey]

For a woodworking shop, it comes down to whether you prefer the wrinkle finish paint or the gloss black paint :D

I have a Starrett combo square because I like it, not because I need it. Lets be honest about it. My 6" combo square is a cheap one from Lowes and I use it as often as the 12" Starrett, and it's just as accurate and has been for the 5 years or so that I've used it. Perhaps it will one day it will wear out of square, but I doubt it.

Now if you are getting a protractor head, you do want the forged one - the blade passes through the head rather than along the side, so you can flip it over for a mirror marking. The cast one you have to reset, which is a pain (guess which I have! :D )

[Pete Duffy]

I sprung for the hardened steel Starret. I do not regret the decision at all. I also have a combo square from Big Box Store. Just feeling the difference in these two tools, which look alike from 4' away, is incredible. This tool will outlast me and several more generations.

I kept it in its box in a drawer for awhile, then I figured, I spent the money, I might as well use it. So I made a nice custom holder for it to mount on the wall. Now it is easy to grab, but protected. Also, it would be really hard to inadvertently bump it out of its holder.

Spend the $$. That's what it is for.

[Jack Lemley]

+1 John and Pete, I use Woodpecker and Starrett tools because they a pleasure to look at and use. Do I NEED that level of accuracy, prolly not, but I figure that every variance I remove just makes the end product a little better. The journey to the finished product is just as important to me as the end product since this is my hobby. I have a high pressure job that requires a lot of travel and at 57 started graduate school last year so when I get time to be in the shop I want to get all the bang for my buck I can.

Jack

[Ken Tucker]

you are so very right .my j---is as acc.as my starr-- with a littttel filing from quality control.ill take afile to anything to save a $100 or more.no more than TLC ON ALL YOUR TOOLS

[Ken Tucker]

dang, your right to

[Ken Tucker]

1/64" id need a magnifying glass, i'm ok with 1/8" but somthing going to have to change. i hope its not my spectacle

[Lee Reep]

I'll get a Starrett one of these days, but I am currently plowing through my retirement funds acquiring Festool products. Last year I did buy a new relatively inexpensive combo square just because the rule was easy to read. Most of the cheap ones, or old ones, are just too difficult for me to read.

I was going to send the old one to the garage (my shop is in the basement), but decided to start a box of "donation tools" to give to whichever son-in-law decides to take an interest in woodworking. More than likely, they will just get dropped off at Goodwill. :)

[Bill Orbine]

I have a couple Starretts forged. Among the problems I see with cheaper squares other than accuracy, quality, readability and durability is smoothness of operation. Cheap combo have balky thumb screws and blade sliding. Nothing ticks me off more than things not working smoothly. The Starrett and other high end squares have all of those qualities. You'll appreciate it once you make comparisons on how well they work!

[Brian W Smith]

You sort of need both,really nice higher end and then the disposables.And the latter is not "cheap",rather the middle of the rd price range.

The logic is that these squares have and do different functions.Some of which are downright abusive.......scribing lines from a bds edge for example.Sure doing onsey twosey isn't going to abrade the blade.But run setup marks on a cpl thousand feet of siding for instance.Or anywhere for that matter,it all adds up to wear.So grab a Stanley.But take that same idea(edge work)and using it for depth control on some precision wood parts,where we are concerned with absolute precision/repeatability......possibly setting to a gage,or two...then,braking out the "good stuff" only makes sense.

There's a mulitude of "work" that is accomplished by combo squares.The deal is,not so much accuracy in some cases but the severity of environment.....but they are quite capable of a high degree of precision in the right circumstances.Heck,we use the levels enough to warrent high $$ models.But for the record,we're a Brown & Sharpe shop,with Lufkin and Craftsman(their high end stuff)bringing up support.Starrett's are deffinately in the minority 'round here,haha.

[Patrick Grady]

I have a family handdown, a Miller Falls 1920's square. No nicks and the level bubble is still accurate. It just feels good in my hand and is probably my favorite tool in my shop. Some of the pleasure of working wood and metal involves familiar comfortable tools. I go out of my way to lift this old razor sharp friend out of its bracket. Lightweight tools have their place, but for your own shop I would recommend purchasing the highest quality indexing and marking tool that you can afford to keep through many projects and many years.

[jeff zambron]

thanks for all the replys I bought a forged head one

[John T Barker]

Don't worry that much about the accuracy of the square if it is for woodworking. A high degree of measure with a square just isn't that important.

[Charles Coolidge]

This thread in summary...Taste Great - Less Filling, if we were all in a bar a brawl may have broken out :D

[Bill White]

I still use a stupid old Stanley #1222 1/2A that won't die. I just checked it again for square, and it's dead on. Don't EVEN know how long I've had this puppy, but it'll stay around for a while longer.
Bill

[Jack Lemley]

Hartville Hardware has all the Starrett stuff on sale the 21st for 20% off.
It's a 2 day only sale on Friday and Saturday.

Rich,

Is this sale at the store only? I don't see a discount at the hartville.com site.

Thanks
Jack

[Larry Edgerton]

Don't worry that much about the accuracy of the square if it is for woodworking. A high degree of measure with a square just isn't that important.

You're fired!

Larry

[John Coloccia]

I've seen more woodworking projects that would benefit from a bit higher degree of measure than not... :rolleyes:

[Peter Kelly]

http://store.harryepstein.com/c/ProductsEngineering.html

12" 4 pc combination square for $52. PEC manufactures squares for Brown & Sharpe, Mitutoyo, etc.

[phil harold]

You're fired!

Larry
Glad some one said that!

[phil harold]

http://store.harryepstein.com/c/ProductsEngineering.html

12" 4 pc combination square for $52. PEC manufactures squares for Brown & Sharpe, Mitutoyo, etc.
I dont have one of these, yet
http://store.harryepstein.com/cp/ProductsEngineering/7105-4R.html
but its on its way!

[Jery Madigan]

http://store.harryepstein.com/c/ProductsEngineering.html

12" 4 pc combination square for $52. PEC manufactures squares for Brown & Sharpe, Mitutoyo, etc.


Nice find. I plan to order one to replace my 30-year-old beater. $24 for a 2-pc makes it pretty economical and $18.50 for a 24-inch spare blade is a nice option. I mostly use my one starrett to test other squares. I ended up throwing out half of a cheap set of machinists squares after testing them.

[Peter Kelly]

I highly recommend the 24" blade. The 4" and 6" ones are great too.