ClearVue Pipe Sizing

[Drew Pavlak]

Couple of things right up front, My CV1800 isn't installed yet and I am in the designing phase of where all my tool will be going as well as trying to finish my shop to get my tools moved in there. Around Christmas is pulled the trigger on one of the bundles CV was offering and this is what I got:
LH CV1800 body
16" impeller
16" impeller housing
Nano Filters
Elec. Box
Bin Sensor
Cleanout box


My dilemma now is what size pipe should I run? Most of what I have been reading says that 6" will be fine, but most of that is based on impellers in the 14" to 15" range. Couple of post have stated that by running too small/large of pipe you could actually burn up the motor. Anyone out there have a system with a 16" impeller and housing and what did you run for pipe? Any regrets/concerns I should be aware of?


This system is going to give me way more suctions that what I was using, so I am sure either will be fine, just want to make sure I am not going to severely decrease my performance by running 6" S&D.


Thanks,
Drew

[Robert Payne]

Drew,

The duct size depends on the length of your runs and the number of machines you plan to operate at a given time. If you have a one-man shop where you run machines individually (and you don't have runs of 30-40 feet), I'd say that 6" duct is very adequate. I use 6" S&D PVC with my CV-1800 and keep my runs as short and straight as possible, using 6" wyes for drops and 45's with short lengths of straight pipe for drops or 90's as needed. Blast gates are located as close to machine ports as possible and then I use 6" flex to their ports (I have upgraded key ports to 6"). If you have long runs or operate multiple tools at once, then an 8" main with 6" drops would be better.

By the way, I supply the bin sensor you have with that package and will be happy to address any installation questions you have, including the interconnection with the contactor in the CV Electrical Box.

[Drew Pavlak]

Thanks Robert,

I am having a hard time finding 8" anything that isn't gold plated if you follow. So 8" is probably going to be out. I have found some 7" spiral, while expensive it won't be all that much more and I may go that route. When trying to calculate things (Static Drop?) is it the total pipe or just the total pipe to the device? The other devices/pipe wouldn't be factored in cause the lines would in essence be closed and no air would be flowing through those pipes. I will have 1 run that will be fairly long (50') unless I can change my layout a little bit.

[Robert Payne]

If other gates are closed, the SP drop is the total to the device. On your long run, I'd recommend that it be one of your less demanding tools -- always try to have the highest airflow demand tools closest to the cyclone and with the shortest runs. I'd suggest you use the SP Calculator available on Bill Pentz's website to calculate your losses.

[Bob Wingard]

Couple of post have stated that by running too small/large of pipe you could actually burn up the motor.

Drew
The motor/impeller's job is to move air ... if you reduce the size of the piping, you reduce the amount of air the system can move, thereby also reducing the load on the motor. If you put your hand over the open end of a vacuum cleaner hose with the unit running, the motor speeds up ... NOT because it's working harder but because it's working less. You can run the ClearVue all day long with blast gates closed with no ill effect ... remove the piping and turn it ON ... it will pop the breaker in a few seconds ... because it has a huge amount of unrestricted air that it is moving ... THAT will put a big load on the motor and burn it up if it's not protected by an appropriate breaker.

[Drew Pavlak]

Thanks Bob,

That was one of the points I was confused on. That cleared a couple of things up for me. I had always thought of it the other way around.

[David Kumm]

If you are buying the larger impeller, go with the 7" main. The system is designed for an 8" and while a 6" will give you 1200-1400 cfm maximum you are still throttling the impeller down- kind of like a restricted exhaust on a sports car. 7" is a good compromise. Dave

[Drew Pavlak]

I had really wanted to go with the 7", to better utilize the system that I had purchased, but yesterday I finally got some pricing back and I don't think it is going to be doable. DWV PVC ASTM-2729 is readily available at my local Menards, I will have to Special order the pipe, but that is no big deal. They have all the fittings that I will need and can purchase everything for close to $550. 7" spiral, no one local in Michigan, would have to ship it in and the 2 quotes I got were $1000+($200-$300 shipping). Unfortunately I can't justify it. I was concerned that by running 6" I might cause some damage to the motor, but from what I am reading it is not looking like that is the case.

Even running 6" I am certain that this is going to out perform my Grizzly 2HP bagged "dust" collector.

Thanks everyone for you input, I really do appreciate it.
Drew

[Bob Wingard]

6" if intelligently laid out & installed will easily do what you need. You WILL be impressed with what your ClearVue can do. A lot of it's overall performance will be dependent on the filtration you use ... the system has to be able to breathe ...I have 6 TORIT DONALDSON filters mounted up in a rather large plenum with everything but the piping up in the attic ... noise is only moderate ... overall performance is fantastic.

If you should ever get down to the Chattanooga area, I can send you home with several of these filters, I got some free from my former employer, but I can't ship them.

[Fred Thompson]

I plan on the same DC you bought ie... CV 1800 with 16 in impeller/housing. I emailed ClearView a few times and have included their response below. I plan on going without filters with venting outside under a very large deck with 8 in PVC as recommended by the kind folks at ClearView. They just cautioned that critters may want to enter my exhaust pipe to get a blow dry. My garage/workshop has no gas/water heater/AC, just me and my tools. I have 2 large vents already though the wall, so one will be used for the exhaust with the other a return air. Even though I am presently a one man shop, I do not want to set up another DC, this will be my last one. I think the over kill with the 16 in impeller, I will be set til my untimely demise. How much more did you pay for the upgraded impeller?
Hi Fred:

Thank you for your interest in Clear Vue Cyclones! We are happy to help! In answer to your questions:
1. The CVMAX is designed to run two gates open at a time whereas the CV1800 is designed for one gate at a time open. Certainly there is no issue with running the CVMAX with one tool only, I would just recommend opening a second gate to allow for more volume of air in your duct. Based on the fact that you intend to run an 8” mainline, I would actually recommend the CVMAX because it’s intake is also 8”. The CV1800 is sized for 6” ducting.
2. The CVMAX has a larger sized impeller (16” v 15” on the CV1800) and the larger intake that I mentioned above. The two things together give an increase of approximately 34% more cfm (1,935 cfm v 1,442 for the CV1800) . Since dust collection is all about the volume of air you’re able to move (cfm), there’s really no downside to the MAX if you don’t mind the additionally money.

All of this being said, if in fact you only intend to be using one tool at a time, a good compromise for you may be to consider the CV1800LH unit, but upgrading to the larger 16” impeller/blower. This will allow you to save money by not using 8” pipe (and less money for the system too), but will still get you approximately 20-25% more airflow as compared to the stock CV1800 with the 15” impeller.

I hope this information is helpful! We recognize that there is a lot to consider in all of this and are more than happy to talk further about it. Feel free to either give us a call or send any additional questions you may have.

Take care,
Cathy

Clear Vue Cyclones
145 Nix Road
Liberty, SC 29657
1-888-299-0221
www.clearvuecyclones.com (http://www.clearvuecyclones.com/)
Clear Vue Cyclones
145 Nix Road
Liberty, SC 29657
1-888-299-0221, ext. 700
([mailto:fredtina@sbcglobal.net],href=)www.clearvuecyclones.com (http://www.clearvuecyclones.com/)

Good morning Fred:

Thank you for your interest in Clear Vue Cyclones!! I am happy to answer your questions!

1. When you purchase a system without filters, we provide you with a Straight 8” Exhaust. This piece transitions off the rectangular opening of the Blower Housing into an 8” round opening sized for PVC. You can then use the PVC to duct it outdoors.
2. There is no affect on performance when you vent outside.
3. As long as you have your system well-sealed, what minimal dust exhausted outside will be minimal. Your flowers are safe. J

The one thing to keep in mind when your venting outside however, is that if you either heat or cool your shop, you’ll be exhausting this air (and any associated energy dollars) to the great outdoors. Additionally you will need a way to replenish the air supply in your shop, otherwise you will be creating a very large vacuum situation.

If I can help with anything further, please don’t hesitate to ask.

Take care,
Cathy


Clear Vue Cyclones
145 Nix Road
Liberty, SC 29657
1-888-299-0221, ext. 700
([mailto:fredtina@sbcglobal.net],href=)www.clearvuecyclones.com (http://www.clearvuecyclones.com/)

[Brian Hale]

If you upgrade to the 16" impeller on the CV 1800 what size ducting will it be setup for, 6",7" or 8"?

Brian :)

[Ole Anderson]

The motor/impeller's job is to move air ... if you reduce the size of the piping, you reduce the amount of air the system can move, thereby also reducing the load on the motor. If you put your hand over the open end of a vacuum cleaner hose with the unit running, the motor speeds up ... NOT because it's working harder but because it's working less. You can run the ClearVue all day long with blast gates closed with no ill effect ... remove the piping and turn it ON ... it will pop the breaker in a few seconds ... because it has a huge amount of unrestricted air that it is moving ... THAT will put a big load on the motor and burn it up if it's not protected by an appropriate breaker. Breakers aren't there to protect your motor, that is the job of your mag starter. They can be dialed in for your particular motor. Breakers sort of work for the motors without built in overload protection or a mag starter with overloads. Breakers are there primarily to protect your wiring. I'm not saying that you won't pop a breaker if you're severely overload or stall the motor, particularly if its FLA is close to the breaker rating.

And you don't need to go with expensive spiral pipe if you want 7" duct, 26 ga snap-lock works fine and is available from any local HVAC supplier or sheet metal shop.

[Jim Neeley]

I'm not saying that you won't pop a preacher if you're severely overload..

Boy Ole, you sure know how to fire things up! <g>

[Ole Anderson]

Boy Ole, you sure know how to fire things up! <g> Well, spell check only helps so much. I get irritated with those that don't proof their responses. I'm a little irritated right now. I will admit, it is kind of funny though. Ah, I still have time to edit it.

[Bob Wingard]

You are correct ... the designated purpose of the breaker is to protect the wiring ... however, in my case, I used either #6 or #8 wire ... just had a chunk laying around ... outside of a dead short, there's no way my 5hp Leeson will pull enough current to harm the wiring. I still used the 30 amp breakers because they will trip before the thermal overload protection on the motor drops it out ... and with my blower/cyclone in the attic, it would be much more convenient to flip the breaker rather than pull down the folding stairs and climb up into the attic to reset the overload button.

I do know that when I first installed my ClearVue, I just couldn't resist firing it up without the ductwork connected ... the breaker opened in about 15 seconds, so I feel safe with the double protection.

[Drew Pavlak]

Brian Hale: If you upgrade to the 16" impeller on the CV 1800 what size ducting will it be setup for, 6",7" or 8"?

Brian,
The system I purchased is setup for 6" S&D pipe. I think the 1800's are setup for 6" no matter what impeller you choose. If I go with 7", I will have to build my own transition to make to work.


Fred Thompson: How much more did you pay for the upgraded impeller?

Fred,
That is hard to say. I got the entire unit on their 12 days of Christmas sale for $1999.00+$220.00 S&H. So $2219.00. What I got for that was the following:
LH CV1800 body
16" impeller
16" impeller housing
Nano Filters
Elec. Box
Bin Sensor
Cleanout box

I do not intend to use the cleanout box that was supplied, I have tall ceilings (12') and plan on mounting it as high as I can, so I am going to build a filter box that sits a little lower and then connect the exhaust to the filter box with 8" flexible HVAC Duct. I believe that is the easiest way for me to incorporate a "muffler" and get my filters down to a more manageable height for cleaning.

Drew

[Erik Christensen]

I have had an original CV with 15" impeller for years - all piping is 6" S&D. When doing a 2 machine process (jointer to TS rip back to jointer or shaper to TS for rip and back to shaper) I often get lazy and leave both machines connected to the DC. I have never noticed any issues with collection running 2 machines on a 15" CV (and yah I know it the dust you can't see that is bad) with the exception of the drum sander.