A shift in shipping policy at Craft Supplies USA

[Don Palese]

In the Feb 2014 issue of Woodturning Design (on page 40) .. C/S has a half page ad offering free shipping on orders over $150 or $7 flat rate under. So I put together an order that is greater than $150 .. As it turns out their policy has changed mid month .. they have revamped their shipping .. it will cost $13.95 to ship this order. Now unless my mind is totally warped .. aren't we still in February 2014 .. so shouldn't their ad still be valid .. I contacted their C/S and was told flat out their policy as advertised has ended.

Normally, I would think they would honor thier ad .. Is there something amiss in my thinking ??

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[Ralph Boumenot]

This is not how to build customer loyality. Mistake or not, they should have honored it in my opinion.

[Dave Carey]

In my experience they've been very good on customer service - meeting lower prices from other suppliers for instance. Am surprised they didn't honor the ad.

[Thom Sturgill]

Their latest email ad had me curoius too - '7 new PSI pens'. I thought they carried a better line of pens more in line with Berea...

[Dan Hintz]

CSUSA has slowly diluted their line of pens, including more and more PSI-level stuff over the last year or so. It's a shame, really...

[Michelle Rich]

I just checked my paper catalog. It says the 150 + is free to BUT lower down the page it says: "shipping offer can end at any time" . Therein lies the bugaboo.

[Wayne Lovell]

I have never found a situation when a merchant wanted to play games, where there were not several other honest ones "right down the road" who were more than happy to take my money. My only problem is not enough money.

[Stan Smith]

I have bought a lot from them over the years and they have had items that other sellers did not offer. However, it does seem that they are changing their policies and inventory. I got an email asking me to write a review of one of their products. I commented that the instructions could be made more clear and they didn't publish my review. I used to receive shipments pretty fast since they are in Utah and I'm in Calif.. Now they are using the mail and shipments take longer. I've always thought that they had sort of a monopoly and I have to wonder if that's affected their mindset. I've started making purchases from other vendors, but I'll still buy from CSUSA if they are the only place to get a product I want. I'm also sorry that they are reducing their pen products selection.

[Kyle Iwamoto]

I have only had great CS from them. It does amaze me that they did suddenly end the free shipping offer. But as Michelle mentioned, they do have the opt to end free shipping at any time..... But then, I live in Hawaii, and free shipping is usually not applicable to us. Wonder how they'll charge me now? They have always been pretty reasonable to ship here.

I've been waiting for a sale or promo code to finally plink down some hard earned money for a vacuum chuck....

[Scott Hackler]

I too have only had good experiences from Craft Supplies. I recently ordered a very large (and expensive) out board turning attachment for my new VicMarc lathe and they sent it pretty fast. I didn't have "normal" shipping charges, but had the regular excessive weight charge, which was to be expected for a 150lb shipment.

So a week ago I got an email informing me that I had non-expiring frequent shopper points (or something like that) and I looked into it. Apparently I have a $60 gift certificate from my rewards points. So to me, that offsets a small amount of shipping expense that I might have to pay now. Nothing is free in the world so they would have to raise prices to absorb the shipping OR start charging for the shipping and send it the most cost effective way, unless the customer wants to pay more.

[Rich Harkrader]

On the plus side, if you order something small like the shaving brush I ordered last night, it's only 4.95 shipping instead of 7.

Rich;)

[Steve Peterson]

I never understood companies with shipping policies like the new one at CS. Sure, it costs more to ship a larger order. But there is the economy of scale that makes it more efficient to process large orders.

I find myself ordering less with the new CS method. I place a few items in my cart and check the shipping cost. Often there are one or two items that I only have a casual interest in. If the shipping cost increases by adding the extra items, then I will not order them. The old CS policy would usually result in me adding extra items to get over the $150 threshold. And with no penalty for extra items, I would often keep adding smaller items. The new policy will cause me to look at other companies with better shipping policies.

Steve

[Duane Meadows]

Economy of scale? Hmm, gotta be easier to pull one item and ship it that to pull 3 of these, 5 of those, and 1 each of 4 other items. Basically it becomes a question of where the shipping cost shows on an invoice! I can either show it to in black and white, hide it in the price of each item(that's what happens if you buy locally, by the way), or whatever, but some way, if I ship it, the customer is paying the cost.

Are some folks totally outrageous with shipping/handling? of course. That is why I look at total cost, not just item cost. Most times, it still ends up cheaper than buying local, thou many times I can't buy local due to unavailability anyway. So if I want an item, I pay what it takes to get it here, no point complaining about it, really!:)

When I was in business, many months shipping costs were second only to labor costs. Gotta cover that somewhere.

[Ralph Lindberg]

CSUSA has slowly diluted their line of pens, including more and more PSI-level stuff over the last year or so. It's a shame, really...

Actually I would say, across the board. IMO it started when Dale Nish was no longer involved in day-to-day operations and has accelerated with his passing.

[Robert McGowen]

You would have to think that an ad in the February edition of a magazine would have been done several months prior to you actually seeing it in print. Things change and sometimes they change faster than you would like them to, but they still change. Maybe they called the publisher and the publisher could not change it in time. Who knows? But seriously, did you REALLY think that you were getting FREE shipping before? You were simply paying for it in higher prices. They either change the shipping structure or they raise the prices of the merchandise. It isn't like they said it was free and then charged you and you did not know about it. It showed up in the shopping cart. You called them and they told you about the change in shipping. Either buy it or don't. Seems pretty simple.

[David Tackett]

Well, you can probably place some blame with the carriers. It seems shipping prices keep increasing and are getting very expensive.

[Roy Turbett]

Its not the one dissatisfied customer they should consider. Its the twelve people the customer is going to tell about their bad experience. Always remember the cardinal rule of business "the customer is always right".

[Nathan Clark]

I'm a local customer of CSUSA, I must say they have the best customer service of any company I have ever dealt with EVER. Among the benefits I have received. Replacing a part I lost through their lifetime guarantee, Gave me a set of replacement pen tubes for free after they noticed they forgot to ring me up for that item, price matching, encouraging me to buy a lathe from the classifieds rather wait for theirs to go on sale. I expected none of these benefits except the advertised price match, and don't expect this treatment every time I go in. Their prices are excellent and they have done such a good job with CS that I'd feel guilty buying anywhere else. with There ad says they can end the offer at any time. I think that is fair, they piloted a shipping program, and it didn't work. Would you rather they had not attempted to see if could work?
As far as the pen kits are concerned, I'm OK if they added 7 PSI kits to their existing lineup heaven forbid you have more choices. If you don't like them, don't buy them. It's amazing sometimes what people can find to complain about if there looking for a bad experience.

... I'm trying to find something less than appealing to say to them to have a balanced opinion, but honestly the worse thing I can come up with ends up being a positive, one of their advertised new products went out of stock after a month or so. A thread reducer adapter (they let me know that PSI had it in stock at only $1 more!)

To look down on CSUSA for cancelling a promotion they had every right to cancel is ridiculous. I ain't gonna to lie, I'd be disappointed, but I wouldn't hold it against them.

[Duane Meadows]

Its not the one dissatisfied customer they should consider. Its the twelve people the customer is going to tell about their bad experience. Always remember the cardinal rule of business "the customer is always right".

Reminds me of a sign I saw years ago. It read something like this...

If we give you double your money back, replace the item for free, and have the manager shot. Would you be happy?

Unfortunately, with too many customers, the answer is no! Some folks you are just better off not having as customers. Even more true it seems, when it comes to shipping charges. I truly believe it's best to mark up the price, advertise free shipping, and just avoid the issue completely. Still won't please everyone, and some will still go elsewhere because that $1995 item is $0.50 cheaper somewhere else. Then complain about the CS!

Shipping charges may end up being the Achilles heel of the online industry!

[john snowdon]

Raising shipping costs is due to the price increases being charged by their vendors. Even Amazon is looking at raising the cost of their Prime service.

On the other hand, lowering the quality of the inventory they are stocking is the fault of management and is not smart business. We all have ordered from them based on quality products and excellent CS, however, even great CS and free shipping will not keep customers when the product quality drops.

[Dan Hintz]

Reminds me of a sign I saw years ago. It read something like this...

If we give you double your money back, replace the item for free, and have the manager shot. Would you be happy?

Unfortunately, with too many customers, the answer is no! Some folks you are just better off not having as customers.

The very first thing we were taught in small business class was "Sometimes you have to fire a customer." I'm happy to deal with 98-99% of the customers who have come my way... but life is entirely too short to deal with that remaining 1-2%,so I send them along their merry way (to my competition :D ).

[Stan Smith]

Raising shipping costs is due to the price increases being charged by their vendors. Even Amazon is looking at raising the cost of their Prime service.

On the other hand, lowering the quality of the inventory they are stocking is the fault of management and is not smart business. We all have ordered from them based on quality products and excellent CS, however, even great CS and free shipping will not keep customers when the product quality drops.

I'm pretty sure that Amazon will raise the cost of Prime. It has saved us hundreds of $$ in shipping costs. Even if they double what we are now paying, it will still be a bargain for us. We don't use the prime movie feature hardly at all, but we do watch some of the old tv series which is great without commercials. We still pay shipping for items that Amazon doesn't sell since there's no other choice if you want that particular item.

[Dan Hintz]

I was always happen to wait for their Free Shipping option... I simply don't need my stuff NOW. Then they jumped up to a $35 minimum order, and the free shipping became more difficult to attain. SWMBO broke down and bought Prime... and since you can attach others to your account, I've been using it a lot. It has changed my shopping habits, which is what they are hoping for. But if they raise the price on Prime, I may find myself in the same situation I was in earlier... it may have the opposite effect, forcing me to shop less.

[Josh Bowman]

You know since this has flowed over to an Amazon thread, how is it that they can make free shipping for $35 and the one thing I really want is not enough and the think I pick to close the gap to $35 is just short of that. So I have to dig up another item to get free shipping. Very cleaver marketing and pricing!

[Joseph M Lary]

I had an order that was a flat rate of 7.00 shipping . I had to go to to post office and pay a postage due to get my order . wasn't very happy about it .
Over the years I have been doing business with them I have had NO problems . They are a great company they have things I use a lot , I hope they get things turned around .

[Rob Price]

I had an order that was a flat rate of 7.00 shipping . I had to go to to post office and pay a postage due to get my order . wasn't very happy about it . Over the years I have been doing business with them I have had NO problems . They are a great company they have things I use a lot , I hope they get things turned around .

That's just not cool. There's too much online competition for that kind of behavior.

I'm in the camp that says you should honor what you've advertised. Sure- things can change. But good customer service is keeping your customers happy and keeping them as customers. You can fire the unreasonable folks, but asking them to honor a print ad is not unreasonable.

[Prashun Patel]

I have a problem with threads like this.

What is the point of posting something you already feel strongly one way about? Take your well-crafted argument to the Supplier and give them a fair chance to respond.

It would be highly informative and valuable to go through the resolution process with the supplier and then report your results so we'd know what to expect if we should order from them. But these kinds of posts in the middle of the trial just engender all kinds of flames from people who don't have complete information.

And another thing... to anyone who has never had their own business and had to deal with the issue of how to pass on shipping costs to their customers (I have), try doing it before you have an opinion. Many customers have a myopic view of commerce. It's one thing for a business to abide by 'the customer is always right'; it's dangerous when the customer starts abusing that privilege. I highly doubt that the company took their decision to charge flat rate shipping lightly. If they got the formula wrong, I just believe it was innocently - but not blithely - done. Help them help you by writing to them, not by starting a thread that will cause others to flame.

[John Altberg]

Well said, Prashun. As a business owner, it pains me, too, to see threads like this. Things change and as consumers we must adapt. Even with this change, CS still seems to have very favorable shipping costs when compared to other vendors.

[David Weaver]

Regardless of how many customers they helped in person, whose lost stuff they brought back, I'd be in the same position as the OP. If you want to cut your shipping discounts, you should have the business sense to do it after your ads have run out, wait a month or two and then change it.

That's all part of the deal that gets you in the door (or on the order, or on the phone, etc). It's not a princple of the amount of money, it's a slap in the face, especially when they don't have the sense to say "yeah, that changed, but we'll give it to you for this order".

And to send out packages with postage due? I'd look around as a customer, even if what happened to the OP was the only thing that happened to me - I'd probably not have completed the order, just a principles issue that really irks me.

[glenn bradley]

This would not be the first outfit to try a promotional campaign only to find out that there was something detrimental about it and change methods. I agree that anyone willing to contact them and ask "what's up?" should be given the promotional fare as a matter of proper customer service. The $6.95 they may have lost on Don's order could never repair the tangle of discussion the action caused. This doesn't make them bad guys, it just means someone on this particular phone call made a sub-optimal decision for a business trying to survive in our current climate.

[Prashun Patel]

(disclaimer: David, I respect you a lot, none of this is personal):

"If you want to cut your shipping discounts, you should have the business sense to do it after your ads have run out..."

This is easier said than done. There is never a 'right' or 'easy' time to implement a change. There is always some pain. Owners get this. Employees get this. Customers do not.

"...it's a slap in the face, especially when they don't have the sense to say 'yeah, that changed, but we'll give it to you for this order'...."

This conclusion is not made with full information. Working in customer service, I can tell you that even the nicest and well-intentioned of employees have busy or bad days. On the heels of such a day, we in the business can make suboptimal decisions. It can be remedied, but only if the customer views their role more as a well-intentioned partner instead of entitled client who expects perfection. Call and talk to the right people, in the right way. If repeated attempts at that yield no acknowledgment or respect, then the free market rules demand that you publicize; but not before.

"And to send out packages with postage due? ...I'd look around as a customer."
I'm sad we live in a world like this. Forget the price of shipping; if their customer loyalty is as flimsy as this, they'll never survive. Guilty until proven innocent.

[Duane Meadows]

Not having seen this particular add, my understanding from this thread is that it had a "subject to change" disclaimer. Not reading, understanding, or believing that, doesn't create further obligation on the part of the advertiser!

Had they accepted the order and then changed the terms would be one thing... if you accepted it knowing they had changed the terms, well that's another situation entirely!

You missed the deal? There will be another along soon. Better luck next time.:confused: Mean while life goes on for those of us without an entitlement mentality!

[Lee Reep]

You know since this has flowed over to an Amazon thread, how is it that they can make free shipping for $35 and the one thing I really want is not enough and the think I pick to close the gap to $35 is just short of that. So I have to dig up another item to get free shipping. Very cleaver marketing and pricing!

I am having a hard time understanding how it could EVER be difficult to get to $35 to get free shipping. :) And I'll have to admit I am cheap, and never get fast shipping. I always go for the free shipping option.

I must have at least a $100 worth of stuff in my Wish List. And you would just be amazed to see my wife's Wish List. It is absolutely stunning what she wants. As opposed to my list, which is only filled with items I NEED ...

[Kyle Iwamoto]

[QUOTE=Lee Reep;2228153]I am having a hard time understanding how it could EVER be difficult to get to $35 to get free shipping. :) QUOTE]

I made the mistake once to ask SWMBO if whe wanted to buy anything so I could take advantage of "free" shipping. Well, I need a pair of shoes, (2 pairs, to be exact) and a couple CDs by her favorite band. "My" part of the bill was the smallest. Should have paid the extra shipping. Don't get me wrong though, I love my wife.

[John Keeton]

Folks, this one seems to have run its course - time to move on to something else.

Thanks!