Photographing laser engraved items for website.

[Joe Hillmann]

I am sure many people here have a website to show off/sell their products. How did you go about getting nice clear photos for putting on your website? Specifically I am having issues with getting readable photographs of names that are engraved (with a yag) on brushed aluminum. The photos always end up making the engraving look very fuzzy when in real life they are nice and crisp.

[David Somers]

Joe,

This is an indirect answer since I don't have a laser to make this kind of thing yet. But..... I photograph my woodturnings all the time. (I think this is the laser equivalent of saying "I am not a doctor, but I play one on TV!" <grin>)

I typically use a gradiant background sheet that I got from BHphotovideo.com. The background gets draped behind and under the item I am photographing and provides a nice change in background from top to bottom without causing a noticeable seam behind the object. They come in different colors and sizes, but my preference is the white to charcoal most of the time. I also use two daylight quality flood light bulbs (6500k color temp) arranged 1 on each side at roughly 45 degree angles to the object. That position gives me a clean background with no shadows unless I want them, under the object for example. I may also use a light tent if I want very diffuse lighting. You could make a nice light tent with some white sheets and a bit of PVC pipe. small ones are also cheap to purchase from the local camera store and are handy for doing small objects.

For flat work, you might be happier with a solid color background? Easy enough to play around with it and see what shows your work off best.

For some of the things being done on a laser you might be better off using a simple copy stand with 2 lights on it. That produces a very flat looking photo though. More of a technical photo than something attractive for sales purposes. Depends on what you want out of the shot.

This kind of approach can help eliminate the glare on the exposed aluminum that is likely causing it to look fuzzy. You might also try a polarizing lens to see if that helps.

Lastly, try playing with distance from the object. You may find that either moving up closer or further back improves the image.

See if any of that helps.

Dave

[Bert Kemp]

What Dave said,but you should also use a tripod so you have absolutely no camera shake. If you have a shutter release cable use that with the tripod, if not you can use the self timer on say 5 sec. You want a background color to contrast your project color. I use towels for a back ground, theirs no glare and they come in all colors. You can lay the towel flat and get good and close so you don't see anything beyond the towel edges. You can also drape the towel in an L shape, which if done right won't leave seams. Diffused light from both sides. I got a couple of those cheap cone shaped light fixtures, you know the ones with the squeeze clamp. put a 100 watt bulb in and some tissue paper in front of it to diffuse the light . cheap set up but works pretty good.

[Joe Hillmann]

The diffused light helps quite a bit. Still not the quality I am looking for but getting better.

I am already using a tripod with a timer and hanging a white piece of cloth in the background that curves onto the surface I am setting items on.

[David Somers]

Joe, try a polarizing filter next if you have one handy. Between that and the diffuse light you might lick it.

If you think of it and have time, pop photo on this thread and show us a before and after!

Dave

[vic casware]

If the parts are flat scanning them is a great way to process clear pictures

[David Somers]

Great idea Vic! The photo would be a very flatly lit, but very clear photo. More of a technical photo. And most folks seem to have a printer/scanner of some sort in the house or office.

Dave

[Joe Hillmann]

If the parts are flat scanning them is a great way to process clear pictures


The parts are not flat but I will keep that in mind for the future.

[Joe Hillmann]

Joe, try a polarizing filter next if you have one handy. Between that and the diffuse light you might lick it.

If you think of it and have time, pop photo on this thread and show us a before and after!

Dave


I don't have a polarizing filter so that is out. I think if I get another spot light so I can light it from above as well as from the sides it will help out.

I also need something better for a backdrop/base. Due to the size of the items I am working on/ plan to work on it needs to be at least 3 feet wide which is why I chose fabric but it is very easy to get dirty or wrinkled.

[David Somers]

Joe,

A roll of paper works well and can be had in various widths. Not very durable though, but cheap. A local printer might stock it. Someone who prints newspapers for example? They will do work other than newspapers and stock various rolls of paper.

The gradient material I mentioned from BHphotovideo is a roll of a plastic material and comes in various widths up to 43". The 43" width is a 63" length. Thunder Gray is the one I use the most. Part number FLBG4363TG. It blows off easily with an air nozzle, or just use a soft brush. It is also water proof for what that is worth so it is easy to clean.

3 foot wide is quite wide. How about a length of countertop vinyl? Like Wilson Art or Formica? That would be quite durable and easily cleanable and washable. Put it up on a wall and use it as a backdrop. If your object is not overly heavy use museum tack or some other reuseable tack material to hold the product against the formica. Or fix suction cups to the formica to hold your objects? There are suction cups available in hardware stores that have a bulbous back side that would pop into holes in a backdrop.

[David Somers]

A last thought Joe,

Are you using your autofocus? It may be getting confused by something in or near the object. Try shutting off autofocus and do it manually.

Dave

[Joe Hillmann]

A last thought Joe,

Are you using your autofocus? It may be getting confused by something in or near the object. Try shutting off autofocus and do it manually.

Dave

With the camera I am using I don't think I can control the focus.

[David Somers]

Hmmmm....not sure what camera you are using, but most do have a way to override. Perhaps through the settings in the camera. It is possible it allows you to go to manual and then focus based on distance....having measured from lens to object. That would be annoying but effective. Others often have a touch screen that allows you to touch a point in the viewscreen on the back of the camera where you want the focus and metering to concentrate. You can see it working if you touch different points in the image. If the color is very flat it may be having trouble focusing at all. If it will do that try forcing the focus onto higher contrast areas of the image. The edge of the lettering and substrate for example.

What camera are you using? I can grab a manual on line and make some suggestions about specifics for it.

Dave

[Joe Hillmann]

It is a fujifilm FinePix s4250wm

[David Somers]

Joe,

I found the manual at Fuji's web site if you don't have a paper copy.
http://www.fujifilm.com/support/digital_cameras/manuals/pdf/index/s/finepix_s4200-s4500_manual_en.pdf

Page 31 is the first step. YOu need to turn off intelligent facial recognition. There is a button with a symbol that looks like a person's upper torso with a fair of square brackets to the left and right of the head. It is on the top right of the camera, closer to you than the Wide Angle/Telephoto control. Press that to turn facial recognition on and off. A symbol on the screen should confirm what state it is in. The button is a toggle. Press and it is on, press again and it is off.

Page 81 and 82 shows how to control focus after facial recognition is off.
To control that you use the shooting menu. Look on the back panel of the camera for a button with menu/ok in the center. The button itself flips to the menu mode and the button selects the highlighted choice. The top, left, botton, and right arrows around the button allows you to move the highlighting through the menus.

So
to work with this setup your tripod and camera a lights and get the photo framed the way you want.
Then do the following to change the focal point of the camera.
....go into the menu mode by hitting the button once.
then scroll down until you get to the AF Mode option. Hit OK.
Then scroll to the Area option. The focus indicator on the screen will show a square made of brackets with a + symbol in the center. Use your arrow buttons to move this around the screen until the + is on the point where you want the focus to be. Hit the OK button.
Then hit the Disp/Back button to get out of this mode.
Take your shot and see how it goes.

There....wasnt that intuitive? <grin>

Dave

[Joe Hillmann]

I will give that a try this afternoon.

Before you posted that I tried to force it to focus by focusing on a piece of card board placed in front of the cakepan, locking the focus removing the cardboard then taking the picture but that was worse than letting it do it on it's own.

So far I have had the most luck by adjusting the shutter speed to 1/15th of a second and adjusting the lighting 'till I get something that works but it isn't repeatable.

[Bill Stearns]

Joe -
Looks like you're getting all kinds of extremely detailed, and sound, advice from very knowledgeable people - 'bout photographing items. (for a web site you're going create?) I paid "web designers" quite 'bit of money for 'bout two years - 'fore I realized my "host" offers a terrific - and FREE - web building program called RV Site Builder. (the advantage to me: I am now able to change my site, and product photos, on my own ... and within minutes.) $9.89 a mo. to maintain my site on-line through my host. (shortly after eliminating the "designers" my sales took off!) Quality photos are wonderful, I guess - but, average snap 'n click photos are making sales! (maybe, just something to think 'bout?) ('cause site product photos are typically small, and lower dpi, and, shouldn't require so much fuss? Hopefully, you don't mind my saying all this ...

Bill

[Joe Hillmann]

Bill, The site I am working on allows the customer to zoom way into the photo. Right now I am am getting photographs that would be plenty good for a site like etsy or a printed brochure but they are just barley adequate for what I am doing so I figure it is worth spending a few days playing with the camera to see how good of photos I can get.

[David Somers]

Joe,
Since your camera doesnt make it easy to manually focus, do you have an iphone or android you could try? They can do quite well.

Also, if you try the cardboard again put some contrasting marks on it. The autofocus keys on that. A solid color is tough on it.

If you happen to be near Seattle you are welcom to borrow a camera.

Dave

[Darryl Hazen]

Joe,
Have you checked the lens itself? It may have fingerprints or dust on it which could be the cause. If so gently clean it with a soft cloth.

[Keith Upton]

Can you post the image(s) you are most happy with for us to see? That would help out a lot. I was a professional photographer in a past life and would be glad to help you out as much as possible. The polarizing filter will only cut down on glare from nonmetallic sources, so if its the aluminum that is soft edges, it will not help much (it will cut down on some of the light reflected from the other things in the image though).

[Joe Hillmann]

Can you post the image(s) you are most happy with for us to see? That would help out a lot. I was a professional photographer in a past life and would be glad to help you out as much as possible. The polarizing filter will only cut down on glare from nonmetallic sources, so if its the aluminum that is soft edges, it will not help much (it will cut down on some of the light reflected from the other things in the image though).


Thanks for the offer. I will try and get some of the better pictures posted this afternoon.

[Bert Kemp]

If its that critical that the customer see the fine print you could always have some small samples of the lettering to mail them. I don't know what your engraving on but a 1x2" piece is cheap to mail in an envelope to show them the quality.Just a thought.

[Dan Kozakewycz]

Is the camera actually on a tripod at all?

A tripod plus a remote or wired trigger is essential to getting a clear photo.

[Joe Hillmann]

Is the camera actually on a tripod at all?

A tripod plus a remote or wired trigger is essential to getting a clear photo.

It is on a tripod and I am using the two second timer to make sure it isn't shaking.

Using the same set up I can get beautiful photos of the wooden items I am putting on the site it is just the metal on the cakepans that is causing me a problem.

[Joe Hillmann]

I do still plan to put up pictures of my results it is just that I haven't gotten around to it yet.

[Jim Beachler]

I have had good results by altering the product. Looks really good in the pic, just like it should.

I have problems with light bouncing off of the high gloss lacquer that I use for my products. What I do is to make an extra one just for the photo shoot. I dull the lacquer slightly with 0000 steel wool. This cuts down the edge of the shine and makes the picture look wonderful. I know it's a dumb idea but it does work for me.

[Mike Null]

Jim

We used a wash off spray to knock down the shine. I can't remember what it was but it was very effective.

[David Somers]

Joe,

I was pondering your problem a bit more last night and had another thought for you to try that would be simple.
Bounce your light.

In other words, rather than placing your lights at 45 degree angles to your object but still aiming the lights at it, instead use a white sheet or cardboard and aim the lights at that, and let the reflected light from that illuminate your object. No direct light from the lamps would be hitting the object. Just the reflected light coming off the white cardboard or sheeting. That kind of thing works beautifully on very shiny objects like silverware and glass, but it also can work wonders with something that has a softer reflection. And it is easy to try with things you have on hand and not too much fuss to set up. If it worked, it is easy enough to make a setup that you can easily setup quickly as you want to photograph things.

If space is an issue (it does take a bit more space to do this kind of reflected lighting) you could put a white sheet between the light and the object and diffuse the light that way. That is less effective than a bounced light though if reflection is really the cause of this issue.

One caution when you reflect light this way. I think you said you were using a tripod? If not, be doubly sure that you do. When you reflect the light you are effectively increasing the distance between the light source and your object, and reducing the amount of light reaching it. Your exposures will increase as the light levels decrease and your camera needs to be even more rock steady than before.

Dave

[Keith Upton]

Is the camera actually on a tripod at all?

A tripod plus a remote or wired trigger is essential to getting a clear photo.

Only if the poor quality is do to camera shake (too slow of a shutter speed).


I have had good results by altering the product. Looks really good in the pic, just like it should.

I have problems with light bouncing off of the high gloss lacquer that I use for my products. What I do is to make an extra one just for the photo shoot. I dull the lacquer slightly with 0000 steel wool. This cuts down the edge of the shine and makes the picture look wonderful. I know it's a dumb idea but it does work for me.

A polarizing filter would would great for you. Even if they don't make one to fit your camera, there are options out there that are not to expensive... that is if you have to "alter" quite a few of your products.

Also keep in mind that light reflects the same as the angle of incident:

282468

You can reduce a lot of light glare simply by changing the direction you light is coming from.