Saw sharpening machine

[Steve Rozmiarek]

I know this isn't completely neander, but figured you guys would give the best input from a users perspective.

My Grandpa's Foley Belsaw sharpening machine needs a new home. I remember him using it for hand saws, but I really don't know much about it. Question, is it something that does a good job, or not worth the effort. I'd just do it for my own use, but only interested if their limitations match my saws. Thoughts?

[Jim Koepke]

My thought is if it has the rails to go with it and you don't like it I might be willing to buy it and pay for the shipping.

Is it a sharpening machine or a retoother?

jtk

[Maurice Ungaro]

Wait a minute....this was: a) your Grandpa's; b) a tool, and c) old. Why are we having this discussion? :D
Send it to me, I'll let you know if it's any good!

[Adrian Ponik]

This site has lots of good info:

http://foleyfiler.blogspot.com/

Personally, I think they are pretty cool. I've never gotten the opportunity to play with one or use one, so take whatever I say with a grain of salt, but I know it is something I would probably keep around to play with. My understanding is they hold a regular saw file and you can then set the TPI, insert a saw plate and away it goes. I'm sure it's not that simple, but from what I gather that's the main thrust of it.

[Rick Whitehead]

I have a Foley saw filer, and I can tell you a little bit about my experience with them.
First of all, in addition to the filer itself, you need the saw carriers that hold the saw. There are three different styles, for straight hand saws, back saws, and saws with a curved (breasted) tooth line.You need the gauges that set the file to the proper rake angle, and the gauges that position the saw on the carrier.Unless you have all of these, you won't be able to use the saw filer.
Using the Foley saw filer isn't a matter of turning it on and forgetting about it. You have to watch it carefully to see that it doesn't skip a tooth or file a tooth in the wrong place. The filer doesn't operate well with irregular teeth. It also doesn't do well with very fine teeth, about 16 TPI, which is as fine as it will go.
If you want to sharpen very many saws, you'll need a re-toother also. That also needs a series of notched ratchet bars to operate.
If you have all the accessories, I think you should go ahead and try to use it. I enjoy using it and watching it work. I find it relaxing.
If you don't have all the accessories, I'd find it a new home, and learn to file a saw by hand. You'll need much less equipment!

[Steve Rozmiarek]

Thanks guys, I need to dig up some more specifics, I'm sure that will help narrow the questions. If I just want to retouch existing good teeth, which model does that? Do any of them set the teeth?

[george wilson]

I tried TWO of those blasted saw sharpeners when we had to make all the crosscut and rip saws. Since the first one was quite old,and malfunctioned,I found a pretty new one and bought it. It messed up saws too,by failing to index the saw blade every several teeth. It ruined a bunch of teeth because it filed quite deep on the tooth it would file twice. I had to re tooth several saws and start over. We ended up filing them by hand. I never could get the machine quite adjusted right,somehow. Even on coarse tooth rip saws it would malfunction.

By the way,those filers really need special files with no tangs,and both ends quite tapered. Tanged files will work,but aren't the best files to use. The files were NOT what caused the machines to fail to move the saws for each tooth.

[Rick Whitehead]

... If I just want to retouch existing good teeth, which model does that? Do any of them set the teeth?
If the teeth are in good shape and regularly spaced, the saw filer will sharpen them just fine.
Foley makes a separate machine for setting the teeth. I have one, but I've never used it. I always set the teeth by hand.I feel I have more control, and there is less of a chance of breaking teeth.

[Steve Rozmiarek]

Rick, I'm a bit worried by George's review, if he couldn't get it to work, I have very little chance, but I kind of want to try. Curious though, can you still get the right files and parts? I'll probably get a better look at it this weekend.

[Tony Zaffuto]

Several years ago I bought the full monty of Foley equipment, including all carrier bars, etc. I had the wild thought about making a saw or two and really was after just the re-toother. Make a long story short, it was more trouble than it was worth. I only "played" around with the re-toother, but what I found was one misstep with set-up, I had to start again and by doing so, I would lose at least 1/4" of saw plate per pass. Also, the machine I had would give a bit of a "wave" to the saw plate.

Don't regret the purchase as everything cost $400 and I got way more tinkering time value out of the stuff than that. After a couple of months, it is now residing in storage until I decide to sell it all.

[Kim Malmberg]

My opinion is nothing more than just that. But as much as this machine could do the work if well serviced and properly managed I would not want to try this. My way of thinking is keep saw sharpening a simple as possible. This can be achieved by hand, in a short time and with very good control. I would not take the chance of having a machine mess up the teeth on any saw - vintage or not. And the machine might affect the plate tension as well. So if you can sell it - by all means but I would invest the and energy in learning how to sharpen saws by hand. This way you would also learn a trade which might be Passed on.

[george wilson]

Those machines do take a DEEP cut on your saw teeth. Sharpening by hand will make your blades last a LOT longer.

We did find a Foley saw setting attachment which worked quite well,once you got it set up properly. It would be a lot of trouble if you were sharpening 1 saw. The "anvils" have to be adjusted just right to not hit the teeth too hard.You have to have the blade carriers adjusted properly also. It was a good machine to have for the dozens of crosscut and rip saws we made,which I did not bother to get pictures of. I'd get it setup and then quickly set all the saws with X numbers of teeth,then do the next bunch of saws.

However,we had to set all the back type saws by hand as the machine would not take them.Our hands were bleeding from setting all those small teeth.

[David Weaver]

Also, the machine I had would give a bit of a "wave" to the saw plate.


I've read that elsewhere, and I know Bob Smalser said the same thing. Another good reason to have a setup to hammer saw plates straight.

[Tony Zaffuto]

Damn it Dave,

I figured, since you just over the hill from me, that you wanted to buy all the Foley stuff!

[David Weaver]

I saw a listing somewhere on CL here about 3 years ago - probably 50 miles northeast of town, and it was the entire foley setup for $150. I wonder who got that one? I'll bet they haven't used theirs much either :)

I contemplated trying to find a retoother and carriers but there are two problems with reconditioning saws:
1) if you get 15 of them, they take forever to recondition by hand and refile teeth
2) if you get the foley equipment, you need 10 times more saws than that to make it worthwhile

MJD and a couple of other folks have granted me the pleasure of learning to hammer saws straight, but given how much space the foley stuff takes up, and how high used saws have become - if they are of any desirable type - I'll stay with #1 above!!

Figure one of those retoothers and filers would go well at an antique engine show. Right next to the dog on a treadmill churning butter :)

[Rick Whitehead]

Steve:
I'm a bit surprised that George couldn't get his machine to work.He is an exceptional craftsman and extremely ingenious as well.All I can say is that the machine sometimes wins!
Foley supplied standard 7" taper files with their saw filers. They also supplied "bandsaw blunt" files, which are the ones I think George is referring to. Those are a big triangular file without a tang, and a short triangular taper on each end.They were designed to file bandsaw blades, but would work for large-toothed handsaws like ripsaws.They are too big for standard crosscut saws. I've personally never used them.All the files I've used with the Foley have been standard 6" or 7" slim, extra slim, and double extra slim saw files. The 7" files fit the machine better, but I've used 6" files with the longer file holders.
Some parts are still available from Foley. Some can be fabricated yourself.
Rick W

[george wilson]

Don't forget,I am not as young as I used to be,nor as energetic. Maybe I didn't pursue trying to get the Foley's working as much as I should have. I just got tired of having to lose 1/2" off a blade while re toothing it.

[Ron Bontz]

Well, just my 2 cents for what it is worth. I own both an ACME saw filer and a foley. Yet, I file all my saws by hand. Then again, I may just be crazy like that.

[Mel Miller]

Around here, I've seen several Foley outfits for sale over the years, but nobody seems to want them.

[Tony Zaffuto]

I don't make a habit of selling anything Dave! I paid $400 for the complete set-up, including all carrier bars and ratchets. Equipment is in top notch shape, and one of these days, I may just try to figure it out. As I said, I had it in mind to attempt to build a few saws, and thought the toother would help. What I didn't figure on, is not having time to apply!

[Steve Rozmiarek]

I wonder what machines Disston used to make saws? Obviously not Foley, but I'd be curious to learn more of someone has a link. Didn't see it on Disstonian institute site, but I did find this about Foley machines. http://www.disstonianinstitute.com/foleyfiler.html