Is your digital angle gauge accurate?

[Bill Huber]

I had been cutting some angles on the table saw and when I put the blade back to 90° with the Wixey digital gauge and made a test cut I noticed is was not square when I checked it with my Starrett square. I made an adjustment to the blade and made a test cut with a 2 1/2" wide board on its edge and they fit perfect after flipping the cut off 180°.

I then checked it again with the Starrett square and it showed it square, so that means the Wixey must be off a little, but how much.

I put the Wixey back on the saw and it read 89.8°, but how can I really check it.

I checked the Starrett with the line and then flipped it over and check it to the line and I could see no difference. I check the Starrett with my Woodpecker square and they both checked out square.

So I clamped the Starrett in my vise and set the Wixey on it and zeroed it out then rotated it to the edge of the blade and it read 89.8°. I did this test 3 times, each time I took the Starrett out and remounted it, zeroed the Wixey and every time it came out 89.8°.

So I guess the bottom line is if you have any question about your digital angle gauge this could be a way to check it. I know now that the Wixey is off but .2° and I can adjust for that any time I use it.

[George Bokros]

Has the Wixey angle gauge been correct before against the Starrett square?

George

[Bill Huber]

Has the Wixey angle gauge been correct before against the Starrett square?

George

I don't know, I have never checked it, I would think not but just don't know.

[dan sherman]

All the litte angle gauges have a resolusion of +-0.1 degrees, so you can never get more accurate than that. For reference 0.1 degrees is 0.0209" over a foot. A 12" Starrett square has a tolerance of 0.002" over a foot. The digital will get you close, but if you need to be accurate break out the square.

[Alan Bienlein]

I just put mine on the table saw top and hit calibrate so it shows all zero's. I then put it on the blade and it says 90.0 degrees. I even used mine to check for other angles and not had a problem. Are your batteries getting weak? Do you calibrate it each time you use it against the surface your measuring the angle from?

[Bill Huber]

All the litte angle gauges have a resolusion of +-0.1 degrees, so you can never get more accurate than that. For reference 0.1 degrees is 0.0209" over a foot. A 12" Starrett square has a tolerance of 0.002" over a foot. The digital will get you close, but if you need to be accurate break out the square.

I understand that and I proved it with my test but if I need to set the blade at say 22.5° I can't do that with the Starrett and I have to use the digital angle gauge. So now I know that it is off when I set it at 22.3, the blade is at 22.5, that is if I rotate the gauge counter clockwise.

[Bill Huber]

I just put mine on the table saw top and hit calibrate so it shows all zero's. I then put it on the blade and it says 90.0 degrees. I even used mine to check for other angles and not had a problem. Are your batteries getting weak? Do you calibrate it each time you use it against the surface your measuring the angle from?

Yes I calibrate it every time I use it, just because the gauge has 90° on it does not mean that it is 90°.

So with my gauge when I set it on the saw and calibrate it to zero and then put it on the blade and set it to 90° the blade will be off .2°
I know that .2° is not very much but it is still off and not 90°, but knowing that I can always set it to 89.8 and I know it will be 90°.

[Steven J Corpstein]

Yes I calibrate it every time I use it, just because the gauge has 90° on it does not mean that it is 90°.

So with my gauge when I set it on the saw and calibrate it to zero and then put it on the blade and set it to 90° the blade will be off .2°
I know that .2° is not very much but it is still off and not 90°, but knowing that I can always set it to 89.8 and I know it will be 90°.

I have never had very accurate results with the Wixey stuff, so I switched to a Tilt Box. Same thing with Wixey table saw DRO, I switched to a Proscale by Accurate Technology. Wixey's seem to be more about the wow factor that it is digital than the accuracy you're seeking.

[Steve Baumgartner]

I'm surprised that it seems your unit does not zero reliably, but not surprised at erroneous readings. My first Wixey broke and out of curiosity I took it apart. There is a little pendulum in there that senses "up". The tiniest amount of friction could make it hang up and read a little bit off true. Also if face of the box isn't pointed horizontally, that will change the reading (correctly, though).

I now view these as sort of quick-n-dirty for those situations where absolute precision isn't needed. For instance, on a piece an inch or two across, you are rarely going to notice the error and will probably clamp it out anyway. We are working with wood, after all!

Steve

[dan sherman]

I understand that and I proved it with my test but if I need to set the blade at say 22.5° I can't do that with the Starrett and I have to use the digital angle gauge. So now I know that it is off when I set it at 22.3, the blade is at 22.5, that is if I rotate the gauge counter clockwise.

it doesn't work that way though, because the tool is not guaranteed to be off the exact same amount thought it's entire range. Thus even though you are making a 0.2 degree correction, you're not guaranteed to actually be at 22.5. To be fair a lot of segmented turners angle block aren't much better than 0.1 degrees either. if you want to be dead nuts for arbitrary angles you need to use something like machinist angle blocks.

[Keith Hankins]

I'm on my second wixley. First one started flashing bars one day and even with a bat replacement did not fix. Had it for a long time so did not complain and bought a second one. I always calabrate to zero and I found that if your blade depending on it's flatness can fudge it. I had a project with 22.5 and found that if I set the angle with it attached at diff placement verticle on the blade, I got a slight variance of +- .1 degree. To solve it I placed consistently at the top with the blade set to the final height for cut. I test against a known 45. I have a wood pecker precision triangle to the 45 was an easy and if that's reading right then I assumed it was good. This worked The trick was only reading the degree with the blade set to the right cutting height. Now that was for my old griz 1023. That could have been related to other issues. My blade was a Forrest WWII

[Bill Huber]

it doesn't work that way though, because the tool is not guaranteed to be off the exact same amount thought it's entire range. Thus even though you are making a 0.2 degree correction, you're not guaranteed to actually be at 22.5. To be fair a lot of segmented turners angle block aren't much better than 0.1 degrees either. if you want to be dead nuts for arbitrary angles you need to use something like machinist angle blocks.

That is true, I could see that it may not be off the same for the entire range, guess that is something I will have to think about.

[Dennis Ford]

I rarely use mine anymore, it is not more accurate than the angles marked on my saw and the battery does not last all that long either.

[CPeter James]

I just went and checked my Igaging Angle Cube against a good engineer's square and it was dead on. It has a 9 volt battery and auto off so the battery last's a long time.

CPeter

[william watts]

I just went and checked my Igaging Angle Cube against a good engineer's square and it was dead on. It has a 9 volt battery and auto off so the battery last's a long time

As Dan said there is a .1 degree resolution. When checked against a 90 degree standard it will read 90. It will also read 90 at 89.9 and 90.1 degrees. That's if your gauge meets its specs. Mount your gauge on your saw blade and note reading then turn the angle wheel on your saw. You will see the blade visibly change angle, but the reading on the gauge stays the same. That's the way my Igaging meter works, however; the resoulation seems to me more than .1 degree may be something wrong.

Somewhere on the web I saw a angle gauge that had a small magnetic pendulum that read against an analog scale. Looked like it would be very accurate and pricey.

[Alan Schaffter]

Bill, are you using the old WR300 with button battery or the newer WR350 that uses AAA batteries?

There is an issue with the older unit that causes it to be .2° off when the battery becomes weak. I experienced it myself, and luckily figured out what was happening. I discussed it with Barry Wixey who confirmed he had other similar reports. I haven't checked his website but he was going to make a note of it there and/or in the instruction sheet.

Even though a WR300 with a weak battery appears to calibrate fine (0.0) and operates throughout its range just fine with no display issues, etc. it will measure .2° off every time! Replace the battery, check it out, and let us know what you find.

I don't know if the WR350 has the same issue- my original batteries are still going strong after two years.

[phil harold]

Mine is dead on

[Chris Parks]

Mine is dead on

As explained above it will read the angle within the accuracy specified. This means if the accuracy is +/- .2 at 90 degrees it could in fact be either 89.8 or 90.2 in fact a total resolution of .4 of a degree or they could be dead nuts on. I bought two units recently from ebay the same as the later Wixey version but without the name and they both read the same and they cost me under $20 each. I use them for setting up wheel alignments on race karts so they are accurate enough for that.

[Rian de Bruyn]

check the inner and outer thickness of our blade
same blade may very
i had that problem

[Roger Pozzi]

I have the I-gaging cube and found that it reads differently on the left and right side of the blade. :confused:
After trying various methods of use, I now use a drafting triangle.

[Duane Meadows]

I have the I-gaging cube and found that it reads differently on the left and right side of the blade. :confused:
After trying various methods of use, I now use a drafting triangle.

Very possible! As mentioned above there is a pendulum that.. if it's swing is a bit different to on side than the other, you may get a different reading.

There is a difference between resolution/precision and accuracy! It would be trivial to build a Wixey type device with say, 5 digit readout. It could display something like 89.987 degrees. That's a very precise measurement. Doesn't mean it is accurate. Accuracy depends on the analog to digital converter. An 8 bit A/D converter for example, can determine 256 steps of measurement. With a range of 90 degrees, that gives measurement steps of about 0.351 degrees. A 12 bit converter with a 180 degree, on the other hand, will give 0.044 degree measurement steps. I have no idea what type of A/D conversion these device use.

Most digital readouts are rated +/- 1 or 2 counts.

Then there is the mechanical aspect of the pendulum. As mentioned above, friction is a factor. Dust has to be it's worst enemy!

Also there is a rounding issue. A readout capable of reading to the nearest degree should read 90 with any angle between 89.5 and 90.4 degrees.

All these things combined affect the accuracy of such a device. Given all that, a good quality square, triangle or such, should give better accuracy in most cases.

Just my $0.02 and maybe not worth that!

PS It is interesting that Wixey doesn't specify accuracy for the newer WR365, only resolution, range, and repeatability! That is a change from the specs for the WR300.

[phil harold]

As explained above it will read the angle within the accuracy specified. This means if the accuracy is +/- .2 at 90 degrees it could in fact be either 89.8 or 90.2 in fact a total resolution of .4 of a degree or they could be dead nuts on. I bought two units recently from ebay the same as the later Wixey version but without the name and they both read the same and they cost me under $20 each. I use them for setting up wheel alignments on race karts so they are accurate enough for that.

hmmmm
when I square the blade with the wixey and then check it with my machine square the blade is 90 degrees to the table

+/- .2 degrees means the max it will be out
it also might mean it can be accurate...
I will check mine a little more often but over the years it has been accurate
I check my machine squares too

[Bill Huber]

Bill, are you using the old WR300 with button battery or the newer WR350 that uses AAA batteries?


I am using the new one, the WR365 with new batteries that I checked on my battery checker and they are good.

After working with getting the blade a 90° I have found that the Wixey shows 89.9 when my blade is at 90° so that is within spec.
See this thread on how I measured it. http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?213845-Is-my-thinking-on-this-correct

In the thread I show I have my cuts down to .004 difference end to end over 2 1/2" and I can repeat it every time using Hard Maple.

[Larry Browning]

So Bill, if you had to do it again would you still buy the Wixey? The reason I ask is that I am considering buying one and I do respect your opinion.

[dan sherman]

hmmmm
+/- .2 degrees means the max it will be out
it also might mean it can be accurate...


0.2 degrees is a lot to be out by. Even across a 2" wide picture frame miter I'd be pissed if it was out by 0.2 degrees, as that would leave a gap of just under 7 thousandths on one side.


Yes it can be accurate, but that's no guarantee it will. There is a reasons these digital scales are as cheap as they are, and that's because they are not overly accurate. They are convenient. and get you in the ball park, but they are a long way from being a precision instrument.

[Bill Huber]

So Bill, if you had to do it again would you still buy the Wixey? The reason I ask is that I am considering buying one and I do respect your opinion.

Yes, I think I would...

I know now the limit to it and it is no problem, it is a good tool to get you very close. The other part is Berry, I can email him and he will reply and customer service is important to me.

I have found that it is only .1° off, not .2°and that is within spec, now that I know that I can work around it.

[Larry Browning]

Yes, I think I would...

I know now the limit to it and it is no problem, it is a good tool to get you very close. The other part is Berry, I can email him and he will reply and customer service is important to me.

I have found that it is only .1° off, not .2°and that is within spec, now that I know that I can work around it.

So what other things can/do you have for it? I would think you could use it to set the angle on the miter gauge as well. What about tools other than the table saw setup?

[Mark Carlson]

I have a wixey, and its fun to play with, but I wouldn't use it to adjust my blade to 90 degrees. My starret is way more accurate.

[Bill Huber]

So what other things can/do you have for it? I would think you could use it to set the angle on the miter gauge as well. What about tools other than the table saw setup?

I use it when I have to drill dowel holes at an angle, like on chairs. I use it on the drill press to set the table for drilling holes at an angle like on a stool legs. I use it on the Ridgid combo sander when I want to set the table to an angle to sand something. I have used it on the band saw to set the table angle to something other then 90°.

I guess of all the digital stuff I have, table saw fence DR, DR calipers, DR thickness gauge the angle gauge would be the first to go if I had to get rid of one.

[Ole Anderson]

I bought mine to check the drive shaft angles on a lifted Jeep. I wouldn't use it to set a dead on 90, I would pull out my drafting triangle or my small machinist's square. But if I had to set an odd angle on a saw blade, it would get used as I don't have another good option short of the analog gage on the saw.

Mine is the I-Gaging cube. It reads out to two decimal places, but in reality the last digits are just half a tenth as it only ever reads 0 or 5. If you want to get a feel for how accurate it reads, mount it on a saw blade and watch how it jumps as you smoothly tilt the blade. I will say though that it reads as accurate as the scale on the saw.

[phil harold]

I have to agree the wixey is not a precision instrument
for accuracy in woodworking I do not think the table saw is the tool for precision cuts such as a picture frame
thats why there is shooting planes, lion trimmers, and disk sanders

I mean if the tablesaw was a precision instrument you would e leveling it with one of these
http://www.amazon.com/Starrett-98-8-8-Inch-Precision-Machinists/dp/B0002FUO7M
and how many people do that? (I do, just because I have two)
the wixey is just as accurate if not more than the scale on the saw...
and if I need an angle of 7.5 it is going to be better than nothing

[Alan Schaffter]

So what other things can/do you have for it? I would think you could use it to set the angle on the miter gauge as well. What about tools other than the table saw setup?

I can't read the bevel scale at the back of my mitersaw, but I can read this:

http://www.ncwoodworker.net/pp/data/2161/medium/IMG_3759.JPG

http://www.ncwoodworker.net/pp/data/2161/medium/IMG_3767.JPG

http://www.ncwoodworker.net/pp/data/2161/medium/IMG_37711.JPG

[Bill Huber]

I have to agree the wixey is not a precision instrument
for accuracy in woodworking I do not think the table saw is the tool for precision cuts such as a picture frame
thats why there is shooting planes, lion trimmers, and disk sanders

I mean if the tablesaw was a precision instrument you would e leveling it with one of these
http://www.amazon.com/Starrett-98-8-8-Inch-Precision-Machinists/dp/B0002FUO7M
and how many people do that? (I do, just because I have two)
the wixey is just as accurate if not more than the scale on the saw...
and if I need an angle of 7.5 it is going to be better than nothing

Why would you have to worry about the level of your table saw?

The scale on my table saw is a joke, it is hard to read and not very accurate.

[keith micinski]

For everyone saying that it isn't much more accurate then the scale on your saw I would like to know what kind of a saw your running. 99 percent of table saw scales are not only very in accurate but hard to read because they are printed very poorly. Even if they are accurate it seems to me that it is nearly impossible to get repeatability considering the degree markings on most saws are a 32nd to a 16th wide and the pointer is usually not very readable. At least with the wixey you can easily repeat a degree.

[phil harold]

Why would you have to worry about the level of your table saw?

everything has to be level and plumb, must be the carpenter in me

[Alan Schaffter]

I was surprised how close the saw's pointer and scale are, but they don't give me a warm and fuzzy like my Wixey.

One thing no one has mentioned in this thread- I have a second story shop with a wood framed floor that flexes. My table saw will tilt .1° - .2° if I lean on it with the Wixey on the blade.

Here is a Wixey-TS scale comparison. The pointer had been previously sharpened and adjusted so it was right on at 0° when the blade was perfectly vertical according to a square and the Wixey- all three were in agreement. Then I used a triangle to tilt the blade to 22.5°:

http://www.ncwoodworker.net/pp/data/2161/medium/IMG_3528.JPG

Pointer/scale reading is pretty close to a perfect 22 1/2°. You'll notice that the 1° tic marks are likely .1° to 2° wide and the 5° almost twice that!:

http://www.ncwoodworker.net/pp/data/2161/medium/IMG_3531.JPG

During this process I discovered my saw's 45° stop was off so blade could only be tilted to 44.7°. The Wixey and scale pretty much agreed again, but you can't read the scale to that level of precision. Some might say it is 44.8°:

http://www.ncwoodworker.net/pp/data/2161/medium/IMG_3538.JPG

http://www.ncwoodworker.net/pp/data/2161/medium/IMG_3537.JPG

You've probably already seen this since I have posted about it here before. Once blade tilt is set precisely to zero (with the Wixey on the table/blade) at the beginning of a shop session, I move the Wixey to a simple little bracket that is moved by the tilt mechanism. I reset the Wixey to zero- from then on it accurately tracks blade tilt. It makes setting blade bevels quick and easy. Plus, if I need the Wixey for another tool i just lift it off the bracket where it it held by its magnets (i gotta do a quick recal before returning it to the TS however).

http://www.ncwoodworker.net/pp/data/2161/medium/IMG_3526.JPG

[keith micinski]

If leaning on the saw tilts it 1 or 2 degrees the blade still maintains its 45 degree relationship with the top no matter if its perfectly plumb and label or tilted on a 45 itself.

[Chris Parks]

Alan, all those readings are only within the resolution of the electronics as pointed out earlier. The only DRO I use on a regular basis for machine setting is a TS fence DRO and only for repeatability which it seems to excel in. I found out long ago that the angle DRO was not accurate enough for machining.

[Alan Schaffter]

If leaning on the saw tilts it 1 or 2 degrees the blade still maintains its 45 degree relationship with the top no matter if its perfectly plumb and label or tilted on a 45 itself.

That was .1 (1/10) to .2 (2/10). Yes, but if you zero the gauge without leaning on the saw, then lean on it to set the blade tilt, it will be off. It also depends on which way you cause the saw to tilt. Unlike digital protractors, all these digital tilt gauges are gravity dependent.

Similarly another issue using digital angle gauges comes into play if the gauge is not straight up and down on the blade when you take a reading or the saw is not level front to back, and you use it to set blade tilt- error is created because you are essentially trying to compare compound angles. I have the same issue using a digital level to set tilt on my miter saw- the saw must be level and the head must be fully down, in the cutting position.

[Alan Schaffter]

Alan, all those readings are only within the resolution of the electronics as pointed out earlier. The only DRO I use on a regular basis for machine setting is a TS fence DRO and only for repeatability which it seems to excel in. I found out long ago that the angle DRO was not accurate enough for machining.

You gotta be careful with those as well- if the read head is moved too fast along the capacitive strip and misses one, it will be off, just like with stepper motors on CNC equipment. The only way to ensure repeatability is with something mechanical like an INCRA fence, but even that depends on manufacturing and can be affected by temperature.

Bottom line, however, is the majority of this stuff is plenty accurate, enough for most woodworking.

[Andy Pratt]

I thought I would use mine all the time but like someone else said I find that the table saw angle markings are easier to use and just as accurate (sawstop ics). I feel like the wixey would be more handy near my chop saw, which doesn't have as good markings, this thread made me realize I should just keep it with that instead of the table saw. It has been sitting in a drawer unused for the last 3 years.

[Wixey]

Hey guys. I have to chip in here. First, Bill, you are checking the gauge correctly using a precision square. This is the only way to see how accurate the gauge is and and it should be within 0.1 degrees. We always replace gauges under our one year warranty that are not within specification.

Second, a precision square will always be more accurate for setting your blade to 90 degrees. If you set it to 90 with a square you can then use our gauge or any of the other gauges on the market to set your blade to any non standard angle you need. I would really challenge anyone to use their standard bevel scale from the front of the saw to set their blade any closer than you can get with any digital angle gauge. (Actually that would be a pretty fun contest)

[Larry Browning]

This thread has made me want to get one of these gizmos. I can think of several uses for it around the shop. I usually buy stuff like this with saved up my Amazon cards. I think I almost have enough saved now.

Even though I do have both a 90* and a 45* engineering square I use to set my table saw blade with. This would be faster, especially for the 45*.

[Curt Harms]

Based on my experience with Wixey - albeit older Wixey stuff - planer thickness gauge & tilt box, I'd probably prefer iGaging or Beall. I have an iGaging 12" scale and it seems repeatable and is still on the original CR2032 batteries. I guess it's been close to 3 years since I installed it.

[jim gossage]

There is an article in FWW volume 237 that elucidates the problem. Even though most of these gauges are accurate within their specs – usually 0.1 degree – this level of accuracy is not as dead on as a good square. The article shows an example where an angle gauge was zeroed out and then placed on the blade, and appropriately showed 90.0 degrees. Perfect. However, they then tilted the blade very slightly – enough to see a sliver of light between the blade and the reference square. But the angle gauge still read 90.0. The problem is that the slight blade tilt was perhaps 89.96 – not enough of a change to register 89.9, so the gauge continued to read 90.0. The article concluded that these gauges are most useful for quickly setting blades to angles other than 90 degrees, say 34.5 degrees. But if you want dead on 90.000 degrees, you need a good reference square.