Why angle fence for drift rather than centering bandsaw blade?

[Mike Leung]

I read posts on tuning bandsaws and some people recommend adjusting the fence for drift. Why don't people just adjust the band on the wheel until it is running straight? A table saw blade should also be tuned so the blade runs parallel to the miter slots. Why wouldn't you do the same for the bandsaw? :confused:

[Jason Beam]

I read posts on tuning bandsaws and some people recommend adjusting the fence for drift. Why don't people just adjust the band on the wheel until it is running straight? A table saw blade should also be tuned so the blade runs parallel to the miter slots. Why wouldn't you do the same for the bandsaw? :confused:

Good question. Some people don't get it :)

If you have flat wheels, it's much harder to do. But if you have crowned wheels, it's easier to dial out any drift and your fence can stay put. Just takes a little patience.

[Jerry Thompson]

Early on I was instructed how to set my fence to be inline with the drift. I watched Alex Snodgrass' video on You Tube and set my BS up as he demonstrated. It was a game changer for me concerning re-sawing.

[Dennis McDonaugh]

My MM16 doesn't seem to ever have much drift in the cut, but I've never been able to change it moving the blade on the wheel.

[Sam Stephens]

+1. makes cuts so much simpler.


Early on I was instructed how to set my fence to be inline with the drift. I watched Alex Snodgrass' video on You Tube and set my BS up as he demonstrated. It was a game changer for me concerning re-sawing.

[Frederick Skelly]

Thats kind of strange. My experience was just the opposite of Jerrys. I used to adjust the fence. Then I read somebody or others book that said adjust the band on the wheel. That was a big game changer for me.

Wonder what Mr Duginske would say.

[Chris Parks]

I never read anything and just centred the blade and had no drift. I could never understand what others were on about and why they had this huge problem until I saw AS's video and then it all became clear. Dennis, your MM16 has flat wheels, any BS with cambered wheels can use the centred method but flat wheels obviously can't. It is the camber that influences the tracking by changing the angle of the blade.

[Art Mann]

My band saw tires have a little crown in them. I use this property to move the blade tracking until there is no drift. It can be tedious but you don't have to do it often unless you change blades a lot. I have several descriptions of how to adjust the fence to match the off angle cut but that just never seemed like the right way to fix the problem.

[Chris Parks]

I think that the tracking adjustment's primary function has become lost over time for some reason or maybe just misunderstood from the outset. I am sure the cambered wheel plus the tracking adjustment must always have been meant to do just what AS advocates. Has anyone else got a view on this?

[Rob Price]

I'm luky enough to know Alex, he comes to our local WW'ing club meetings about once a year and reviews the bandsaw setup each time. I did read the bandsaw book that talks about coplanar wheels and setting fence for drift, etc. Then I saw Alex put on a demo. Manufacturer's have put a lot of time into the crown on the wheels and the angle/thrust of the wheels. Leave them alone (with regards to being coplanar). I follow his instructions and I've never had drift. I set my fence up parallel to the blade, put the gullet of the teeth on the middle of the top wheel, setup my bearings, and away I go. I've cut some thin veneers out of various woods and never had an issue. Often the blade never even engages the side bearings.

I also just use the tension scale on the saw and don't worry about it.

[Alan Schaffter]

A well aligned saw may still drift. Drift is also often caused by the blade when the teeth are offset more to one side or another.

[John Downey]

I've known saws that drift in spite of having the blade centered on the top wheel. That is where the discussion always turns to whether the wheels are co-planar (or more usefully, whether the fence/table edge is parallel to the top wheel axis).

I agree though, that one should not mess with the wheels, it is a waste of time. If there is drift with the blade centered on the crown, just adjust the fence to match and get to work cutting stuff! :D

If it really vexes the owner, look for an older saw that was built well. I think that is most of the question here, how much effort the manufacturer was willing to put in to making it track nicely.

There is nothing "wrong" about a saw that drifts some, now that fences have caught up a bit and adjustable ones are available. Bandsaws just cut parallel to the top wheel axis of rotation (assuming proper tooth set and that the blade is centered on that wheel's crown).

[John TenEyck]

I am squarely in the camp that believes the blade should track straight so that the fence can be aligned with the miter slots. It could be that the saw manufacturers design their BS's so that the blade will track straight, but that is no guarantee that each and every saw leaving the factory was set up correctly, or prevents it from getting "readjusted" during shipment, or during use. With all due respect to AS, he is making a big assumption that the saw arrived as the manufacturer designed it when he says not to bother checking/adjusting the wheels. He further assumes no saw ever wears or deviates from factory specs as it ages.

It was only after I checked whether or not the wheels on my BS were coplaner, and found they weren't even close, that I was able to resolve the tracking problems I had with it. Once I adjusted the wheels so that they were coplaner, the blade tracked beautifully in the center of the wheels and was square in two both axes to the table. However, the saw still would not cut straight, and this is where the comment above about the influence of the blade came into play. Turns out the blade was not equally sharp on both sides, even though it was brand new. With a new blade with equal set and sharpness on both sides, the saw now cuts beautifully straight.

It may be possible to get a saw to cut well even if it doesn't cut straight, but that can't be what any manufacturer would want, nor do I. It only took a couple of hours to "fix" my saw - and it's now a joy to use, something I would never have said before.

John

[glenn bradley]

I have had 4 different bandsaws and have adjusted saws for others. I have never accepted drift and always just adjust the saw to cut parallel to the miter slot (when present) and set the fence to the slot as well. I change blades with impunity :). As a disclaimer and a testament to my limits; I have not run carbide tipped blades and I use the flutter method to set tension. Some Ellis blades I tried (didn't care for them) required a bit more tension than say a Timberwolf or a Woodslicer but, they still tracked true. I was very confused when I saw that they sell an expensive fence solely to deal with drift. Later I realized there is a market for it and many folks sing its praises. I just adjust the saw. YMMV.

[Mike Leung]

I have have an Inca 10" and a Laguna 14". Both saws have wheels with slight crowns. My fences have been shimmed to 90. This is what I do to setup my saws. Everytime I change to a new blade I need to adjust the camber on the top wheel. I check the table's tilt and adjust for 90 if needed. I use a precision square on the back edge of the blade and adjust until I get no gaps so my blade is 90 degrees to the table. I then mark a piece of S4S wood and make cuts against my fence, measure with caliper and dial in the camber and table tilt. I check with my miter gage to see how close I am as well. If the cut is drifting to the right I dial the band towards the back of the wheel and if if drifts left to the front.
It takes me 30 minutes or so to do this procedure so it is a huge pain in the ass. That was the reason I bought my Inca so I don't have to change blades on the Laguna. I cut and fine tune tenons for through mortises on my bandsaw so I need to cut straight both side to side and top to bottom. If I don't align my blade properly, I cannot cut my tenons precisely on the bandsaw and will use my tablesaw instead.

The teeth being offset more on one side could cause problems. I use a Laguna resaw kings and woodslicers and have not had any offset problems. So could it be that some people have blades that do not have even offsets so they can not align their them properly? I am always open to better setup techniques. Mine just takes a bit too long and I dread it everytime.


A well aligned saw may still drift. Drift is also often caused by the blade when the teeth are offset more to one side or another.

[Jason Beam]

A well aligned saw may still drift. Drift is also often caused by the blade when the teeth are offset more to one side or another.

That's when you should suspect the quality of the blade.

Drift is NOT acceptable and aligning the fence is symptom treatment. I don't really care where the blade is on the wheel as long as it'll stay on. I move the blade where it needs to go so it doesn't drift. If i can't manage that within the confines of the wheel, the blade is garbage (or dull, and thus unusable).

I guess lots of folks still think their way is right... and manufacturers are happy to part them of their money with gizmos and gadgets to address a problem that doesn't have to exist. Like i said before, some people just don't seem to get it. You do not have to accept drift, ever.

[Peter Quinn]

I can adjust the fence for drift in under 2 minutes, better with my glasses on and a cup of coffee in me. Adjusting the blade to be parallel with the miter slot.....significantly longer. I go from a 5/16" 10tpi to a 1 1/4" 2TPI, significantly different tension, etc. Set one blade parallel to the miter slot, change blades.....different wheel setting required. My saw has a mechanism for adjusting blade position, but its hardly a micro adjust on the fly situation, and not so many saws are. A very small turn of the wheel adjusters makes a very large change in blade position, so you sneak up to it.....for what? I can count the times I have used the miter slot on a chickens fingers. And I don't use the table edge as a reference either, the only relevant relationship to me is that between fence and blade. The table saw argument is apples and oranges....a table saw blade is at least 10" across, thats a lot of room for heel, you have teeth on both sides of the cut, and the thing kicks back, plus an american style cabinet saw is primarily a rip machine at its base, put that all together, you had better have the blade/fence aligned. But you don't have to realign the blade/fence on a TS between blade changes.....ever. So moot argument, different tool.

It think you should have the blade travel at 90 degrees to the table top, and you should have the blade centered on the wheels crown as much as possible. I don't know of many saws with truly flat wheels, that would put the tooth set into the rubber and not last long. My old 14" had a very visible crown, present Italian saw has a very slight crown, you almost have to put a straight edge across it to see it, but its there. Still I've yet to hear a convincing argument for aligning blade to miter slot and fence to miter slot yet. I don't use the miter slot. Its as good to me as a random number....I may as well bolt the saw to the floor and align the blade to the adjacent wall. Setting the drift parallel to the miter slot is still setting the drift, you have just chosen a specific random point rather than a chaotic one. And what does that get you? Control issues? I'd rather be cutting than adjustingI don't care what direction the blade aims as long as I'm heading the same direction. Suffice it to say opinions do vary on the subject.

[Larry Edgerton]

See above.

I have to make a living at this and have too many stationary tools that need to be maintained to worry about something that does not matter in the least. I use a post fence anyway, and its hard to align a post. ;)

Larry

[Rod Sheridan]

I read posts on tuning bandsaws and some people recommend adjusting the fence for drift. Why don't people just adjust the band on the wheel until it is running straight? A table saw blade should also be tuned so the blade runs parallel to the miter slots. Why wouldn't you do the same for the bandsaw? :confused:

No idea Mike as that's what I was taught to do in industry, there wasn't any adjusting of the fence, just tracking adjustments on the blade.

And what do you do about the crosscut function, start rotating the table back and forth? Pretty odd practise.
Regards, Rod.

[John Downey]

I have a bunch of better ways to crosscut than a bandsaw :D Why would anyone care if they never even use the miter slot? Fussy don't pay the bills, getting to work does that.

All that aside, the point was this:
a.) Centering the tracking doesn't always cure drift, to answer the OP's question
b.) It only matters if you want it to matter

People want what they want, if it happens to be a perfectly tracking saw, there's nothing wrong with that. However, no one is doing new users any favors in convincing them that it is essential.

[Jason Beam]

People want what they want, if it happens to be a perfectly tracking saw, there's nothing wrong with that. However, no one is doing new users any favors in convincing them that it is essential.

Yeah ... except that they don't need to waste money on a fancy fence that can adjust out drift ... or change their fence everytime they change their blade. Who needs to know that there are companies out there trying to sell you stuff you don't actually need?

Yeah, no sense being logical or anything.

[Jim Finn]

I never did understand how tracking would effect the "drift" if the guides are straight the blade should be also. The only time I have had "drift" on my GO555 is when the blade went dull. New blade and drift disappears 100%. I resaw with a non adjustable resaw fence and have no problems with "Drift".

[Kevin Jenness]

I tend to agree with Peter Quinn. On my old Crescent 36" saw I use blades from 1/4" to 1" and it's easier to align the fence to the blade drift for me than to move the side guides as well as the backup bearing fore and aft and make a bench of test cuts to get the blade centered. I don't have a table slot anyway; any crosscutting gets done with a guide block run against the fence. If I used the same blade width all the time I suppose I would do it the other way.

[John Downey]

Yeah ... except that they don't need to waste money on a fancy fence that can adjust out drift ... or change their fence everytime they change their blade. Who needs to know that there are companies out there trying to sell you stuff you don't actually need?

Yeah, no sense being logical or anything.

Sounds like you've not yet come across a really bad one. I remember two with very bad drift. One was an Italian saw with almost no crown to the tires. Had to set the tracking with the teeth of the blade off the tire to get that thing to cut straight. Threw blades often enough to be annoying, because the blade was half off the tire. Another was a Delta C-frame saw that must have had a 1/4" of drift in the length of the table. With a nicely crowned tire, there was no adjusting that out - blade slid right off the wheel before you could even get it to cut straight.

With machines such as those, you have three options - replace the machine, add an adjustable fence at a moderate cost, or waste time fixing machines, time that could be spent on productive work that makes the shop money.

I guess logic depends on your situation, doesn't it?

[Chris Parks]

I have a friend who recently bought a 14" Laguna and ordered a Resaw King blade with it. it took him quite a while to work out that the blade was causing his drift problems so three blades later he has got it sorted. Apparently there is a batch of these blades that have issues so even a new blade can cause problems.

[Roger Pozzi]

Early on I was instructed how to set my fence to be inline with the drift. I watched Alex Snodgrass' video on You Tube and set my BS up as he demonstrated. It was a game changer for me concerning re-sawing.
I used Alex's method while setting up my new bandsaw. Perfect from the start, and also perfect every blade change.
For me, I'll stick with it simply because it works.

[Mike Leung]

I just watched the video on YouTube. Alex makes tuning the saw simple. I have a new resaw king ready to install. I'll try his methods and see how it works out.


I used Alex's method while setting up my new bandsaw. Perfect from the start, and also perfect every blade change.
For me, I'll stick with it simply because it works.

[Bob Wingard]

I used Alex's method while setting up my new bandsaw. Perfect from the start, and also perfect every blade change.
For me, I'll stick with it simply because it works.

+1 ... saw Alex do the same demo at a show ... he showed centering the deepest part of the gullet on the upper wheel ... I did ... it worked ON MY SAW ... I stayed with the practice. I can change to/from any blade I own, and never have to change guides, only the rear thrust bearing ... by using his technique, the deepest part of the gullet never changes position, so, no need to readjust the guides.

[Mark Draper]

If you have ever nicked a rock with a chainsaw and dulled one side of the chain the saw will then favor the sharp side and tend to make rounded cuts toward the sharper side even though the blade runs in a slot that keeps it straight.

[Ole Anderson]

Here is a link to the video that has been referenced several times: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wGbZqWac0jU This guy seems pretty sure you don't have to put up with drift. Although I believe you wilcanl still have problems with a dull or bad blade. I need to try his method as I have been dealing with drift that even adjusting the fence doesn't seem to cure. When my saw was new and with a new blade, it resawed exactly as I thought it should. I probably need a new blade.

[Rob Price]

Here is a link to the video that has been referenced several times: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wGbZqWac0jU This guy seems pretty sure you don't have to put up with drift. Although I believe you wilcanl still have problems with a dull or bad blade. I need to try his method as I have been dealing with drift that even adjusting the fence doesn't seem to cure. When my saw was new and with a new blade, it resawed exactly as I thought it should. I probably need a new blade.

That's how I know when the blade is dull- when it starts to wander.