Next Lathe recommendations...

[David Coburn]

Hello,

My name is David Coburn and I've recently started turning bowls.... I have turned pens and stoppers and small things for quite a few years but never really done many bowls until just recently. I have a very cheap setup that I think everyone here knows about, the Harbor Freight 34706. By specification it has a 12" swing and 33" between centers. It has a reversible head for outboard turning but only a 3/4hp motor so I'm not really sure that you would really be able to do much outboard turning.... So far I've done up to a 10" diameter 3" thick cherry bowl and it did ok but I'm afraid as I move up to the full 12" and 4" walnut I'm going to start running into problems. From what I've read I think it will do it as long as I'm in no hurry but I would also like to do some larger bowls 16" or so...

Anyway, I'm very aware of my lathes limitations (under powered & not enough swing) and problems (already replaced a pair of reeves pulleys, no grease on shafts, belt is cheap junk, bottom end speed is too high, etc...)... but for $269 or much less if you do it right it's a real good starter lathe.

So, I'm starting to get the itch to move up to something better... What I'm seeing so far is that there are a bunch of middle range lathes in the $800 to $1200 price range but they're mostly just this same harbor freight lathe packaged a bit differently... The one exception that I've found is the Grizzly 462 (priced at $625, has a 2HP motor, 16" swing, 46" between centers)... but it still has the Reeves pulley setup and I'm assuming many of the same shortcomings of the HF lathe. The Reeves pulleys on my current lathe were really a beating for me over one weekend. Up from these lathes ($800 top $1200 - plus the grizzly) there are a several lathes that cost in the upwards of $2500 range... and then some others that are extremely expensive...

So... I have a couple of questions...

1) With the exception of the Reeves pulley setup is the Grizzly lathe a definitively better lathe than the other ones in the middle price range group and mine?

2) Are there any lathes that you would really recommend in the (less than $1500) price range?

Note: I have many second hand tools (Yorkcraft 15" planer & a Powermatic 8" jointer)... I am no stranger to Craigslist but I'm not really familiar enough with lathes to know if I'm buying a lemon or not as a second hand tool....


Here's a picture of my current lathe setup and first bowls...

Any comments you might have on how to improve my current lathe setup for 12" bowls would be welcome.

281872

and here's a picture of my first bowls.... Not too fancy but I'm happy with them... The cherry one is almost 10" diameter and 3" deep.

281873


thank you for your feedback,
david

[Dave Paine]

I have only turned a couple of 12in dia items, a platter and a bowl. A big difference in vibration for both compared to e.g., 10in dia. I got the platter askew on the worm screw and it vibrated worse than the 12in bowl.

Starting out the 12in bowl blank will be the challenge for vibration depending on your lowest speed.

The folks who purchase the NOVA 1624 seem to be happy. This was on sale a month ago at Woodcraft for $900. Present price is $1400. If you are not in a hurry wait for another sale.

http://www.woodcraft.com/Product/2020011/22005/Nova-1624-44-Wood-Lathe.aspx

I have the NOVA DVR XP which is also 16in swing and 24in between centres, but variable speed. This is also sometimes on sale at Woodcraft for $1900.

If you want to turn 12in dia bowls, I would want a lathe which turns down to 200 rpm for the initial roughing.

I have a number of Grizzly machines. I am happy with the machines I have purchased from Grizzly. Based on the comments I have read, it seems the wood lathes are not Grizzly's strong point. I have no idea why.

[Scott Hackler]

First thought was the Nova 1624-44. That was my first "real" lathe and up until a couple weeks ago, that is what I used. It's generally $1400, but they have sales several times a year that usually have a couple hundred off, if you can wait.

Pros:

-Very stout 1.5 HP motor
-16" swing
-rotating headstock

CONS:

-Light in weight (think 270 lbs, but you can weight it down or get the bench mount version ans bolt it down)
-No variable speed and the speed ranges are kinda wide between. (I think its 260, 600, 1000, 1400, 2100 RPM or so)
-Limited to 24" long spindle unless you add bed extensions

If it were me, and you are really going to stick with turning I might suggest saving a bit longer and getting a variable speed lathe. That option adds a $1000 to the Nova line and it just get higher from there.

There is nothing wrong with the Nova 1624. I have turned giant bowls to super small finials, but I desired a big ole monster lathe and saved for 1 1/2 years before finding a rock star deal on a slightly used VicMarc.

[Brian Kent]

Nice bowls, David!

I can't imagine going without variable speed control (not Reeves).
I have the Delta 46-460, which I would have recommended if Delta still sold spare parts - which they do not. Not the ones you need, anyway.
I have seen good reviews of the new Jet 1220vs, so that would be my choice of a good midi lathe these days.

I have no knowledge of the Nova lathes, but people who have hem like them.

People who own the Grizzly G0733 for ($1845 with shipping) hold them in very high regard. You get 18" swing, 47" between centers, 2 hp motor.Low speed of 100 rpm. The only qualification is that people who have used both say that the Powermatic 3520 ($3999) is better built. There are a couple of people on the Creek who own these.

[David Coburn]

Well, two things seem to jump out at me already...

1) I want to get away from the Reeves pulley setup.
2) Except for not having a VF drive a Nova 1624 could be a good next step for me, especially if I can catch one on sale for the $900....

Thanks to all who have responded already...
david

[Reed Gray]

Find the local club down in Dallas/Fort Worth. You might be able to get a good used lathe, and even get to test drive a few of them. The clubs are a huge learning source.
Other than that, variable speed is a 'once you try it you will never go back' thing. I prefer a sliding headstock to a pivoting one, just easier/faster/simpler. Other than that, there is no limit to what you can spend. The Nova is a good lathe, but not my favorite.

robo hippy

[charlie knighton]

bigger bowls may not be the answer, once you turn one where do you display it, all lathes make things go round, yes there are differances in lathes.......good info here, my second lathe was the jet 1642......not looking to trade up unless hit lottery

[Duane Meadows]

Might look at this...

http://www.grizzly.com/products/G0632

Variable speed, 1.5HP, 16" x 42", nearly 400 lb, right at the high end of your price range, though($1550 shipped)

[Dwight Rutherford]

Charlie makes a good point about big turnings. I bought a used Jet 1642 six years ago. 16" swing, 42" between centers, sliding head stock, variable speed. What's not to like?

[charlie knighton]

i looked at the GO632 specs, surprized that it was only offered in 220 volt

[Fred Belknap]

I had the Gris 0462 and I don't recommend it. The 600+minimum speed is just to high, especially for someone learning to turn. It is a little bit like the clap, can't get rid of it. I basically gave mine away at an auction. I think you would be happier with a smaller lathe and variable speed. You can do a lot with a 12" lathe. The Grizzly 0733 is a good lathe if you need a larger lathe. I had the earlier version and it did everything I wanted it to do.

[David Turner]

I have a Powermatic model 90 and don't understand the comment regarding Reeves drive. It is a 1970's vintage and was purchased for $800 and has done everything I have asked of it including 36" diameter table tops.

PM #45 and #90 are readily available on the used market usually on Craig's list and are worth the effort.

David Turner
Plymouth, MI.

[Lawrence Tarnoff]

I moved up from a Rikon midi a few months ago to a Nova 1624 with the bed extension, purchased from a fellow who frequents this forum. Very happy with it and believe it will serve my needs well into the future. I have the cast iron stand supplemented with about 150 pounds of sandbags and she doesn't move or vibrate at all.

Larry

[Brian Myers]

If looking at a Nova 1624-44 try here http://www.tools-plus.com/nova-lathes-24146.html?utm_medium=feed&utm_source=froogle&utm_term=NOV24146&gclid=CJHn6_f3uLwCFctcMgodHWsABg .

[David Coburn]

Well I just picked up a Nova 1624-44 for $900 at my local Woodcraft. Sale ended at the end of January but they still gave me the deal.... About half way through setup and so far I like it a lot. One strange thing though... the threads on the shaft are to large diameter for my Super Nova 2 chuck... I would have thought those would be standard, especially since they're both Technatool products... Am I missing something or do I simply need to get an adapter?

thanks,
david

[James Combs]

i looked at the GO632 specs, surprized that it was only offered in 220 volt
Just another comment on the G0632. FWIW it is nearly identical to the Jet 1.5hp 1642,(other than the voltage). If I am not mistaken it and the jet are made in the same plant with the biggest difference being fit and finish. It uses the identical(or at least the same brand, "Delta") variable frequency control. I have the Jet 1642 and from what I can see of the G0632 a lot of the parts are interchangeable. As far as reliability, I can't vouch for the G0632 but I do have a Grizzly G0658 (http://www.grizzly.com/outlet/12-x-20-Heavy-Duty-Bench-Top-Wood-Lathe/G0658) midi and it has run like a champ for the going on 4 years I have had it. The only problem I have had with the G0698 is having to replace the On/Off switch once, but then I have had to replace the On/Off switch on my jet a couple times also, the last time was just this week.

All that being said I don't think a body could go wrong with the Grizzly G0632.

[Thom Sturgill]

Several standards for spindle threads - in the U.S. 1"-8tpi for minis and midis and 1 1/4" for larger lathes are the most common, other countries run toward metric.

Don't know about the older Super Nova but the SN2 uses an insert to match to the lathe. About $20, but be sure to get the nova adapter and not the store brand - they have been known to cause problems.

Good deal on the lathe, enjoy!

[Karl Stowe]

If looking at a Nova 1624-44 try here http://www.tools-plus.com/nova-lathes-24146.html?utm_medium=feed&utm_source=froogle&utm_term=NOV24146&gclid=CJHn6_f3uLwCFctcMgodHWsABg .

Thats a huge lathe if it can take a "12 foot tool rest" :). Maybe it's a typo in the ad. Some day I hope to upgrade as well and that looks like a nice one.

[Dietrich Floeter]

Second on the Nova. I just bought mine at Woodcraft on sale and have no complaints.

[David Coburn]

Well, I gotta run get a 1" 8tpi adapter but I'll be turning today... I can't wait.

[David Coburn]

Here she be... Man, that ole HF lathe served me well for what I had been doing but somebody above commented on the this lathe as being "his first real lathe".... Yep, there is no comparison between the two... Even though everyone dings it for not being heavy enough, it's very heavy compared to what I was using... and in all the little spots where many would have cut corners they didn't... I turned it on and it was really quiet... Well the proof is in the turning so I'll be sitting in front of Woodcraft at 9:00am to get my adapter and then stand back... :)

Does anyone have a photo of this lathe with weight added underneath? I have several ideas of how to accomplish it but they all involve drilling holes into the legs and I'm not so sure I want to do that..

281966

thanks for all the quick replys,
david

[Dave Paine]

Congratulations on the new lathe. A picture I found from a person with the same lathe. He cut some angle iron, drilled holes in the legs to mount the angle iron, then added plywood shelf and bags of cement. Low tech but works.

http://www.woodworkingtalk.com/attachments/f6/53690d1351129019t-my-solution-nova1624-44-ballast-image-910365964.jpg

You could rip some 2x4's at the appropriate angle so the top is horizontal, then mount across the front and again top with 3/4in plywood.

[John Keeton]

Does anyone have a photo of this lathe with weight added underneath? I have several ideas of how to accomplish it but they all involve drilling holes into the legs and I'm not so sure I want to do that..
David, I don't have that lathe, but one idea would be to put longer bolts in the leg connections sufficient to carry a 2x6. That way, you could suspend a weight carriage from the 2x6 supports. The downside to that would be a tendency to splay the legs from the additional weight. Were it me, I would want the weight shelf system tied to the legs at a lower point to keep them from splaying. It would also be more stable, as the weight wouldn't be "swinging" from the frame of the lathe. I don't see drilling holes in the legs harming anything as any subsequent buyer might appreciate the option of adding a weight shelf and odds are, you would sell that with the lathe anyway.

Edit - just saw Dave's post and you can see how this setup would prevent splaying of the legs. IMO, using a 2x framing member would work just as well as the angle iron and could provide a stiffer support for the shelf. I would also place it a bit higher to provide shin room when standing in front of the lathe. I can see banging my shins on the lower angle iron.

[Paul Gilbert]

David, there are three turning clubs within easy driving distance of McKinney. I am a member of Dallas Area Woodturners which meets at WoodWorld the third Thursday of the month. I live in Allen and have a PM 3420b which you are welcome to test drive. I know that this is over your stated budget price limit, but hands on experience would give you an idea of the features you might like. If you are interested send me a PM and we car arrange something. Since I am retired I have a very flexible schedule.

[Thom Sturgill]

I would put a piece of 1 1/2" or 2" angle across the ends at about the height pictured and then run a shelf support from them holding the front support back for shin clearance as John said. A 5/16" hole for a 1/4" bolt should be sufficient without compromising the leg noticeably. Two spaced diagonally would be better. If you use a 2x12 board, it should support quite a bit of load without extra support along its length, especially if it is well distributed. Be sure to fasten the board to the angle to prevent splaying.

[David Coburn]

Well I've arrived at a dilemma....

I'm standing in the shop with my new adapter and my lathe right in front of me.... to my right are three nice size blanks just ready to get chucked up and to my left are some 2bys, 3/4 sheet material, and 4 bags of 60lb quickcrete...

Oh what to do....

I'll let cha know how it turns out...

[John Grace]

David...

I've owned a NOVA DVR XP for several years now and love it. It has all the power I need and the VS is very practical. The comments of others relative to weight are quite valid but I've anchored mine to my garage's concrete floor. For what it's worth...I consider it my 'high end' hobbyist lathe that I'm learning on until I can afford a 'big boy' lathe. That said...it's perfect for the foreseeable future.

Price-wise, it's an excellent value and you can get them on sale occasionally from Woodcraft or purchase a factory reconditioned unit directly from their web site reduced even more.

Hope this helps...thanks, John

[Rich Harkrader]

Yeah, you'll need a different insert for your SN2. The 1624 is 1 1/4 x 8 TPI on the headstock. The insert for your old lathe is 1 x 8 TPI.

[Scott Hackler]

David,

A helpful hint for the Nova 1624.... Align the tailstock and headstock with a live center and a drive with a point in the middle. The rotating headstock has an indent to "return it to center" BUT it is not all that accurate so I do it manually and then tork the headstock bolt on the end of the lathe VERY tight. It generally wont move after that and when you do want to rotate it you'll need some "umph" to loosed that clamping bolt, but maintaining the alignment is needed.

Congrats on your new lathe, before long you'll be able to switch that belt position in less tan 15 seconds! It is one of the easier belt changes out there.

[David Coburn]

Scott,

They actually mentioned something similar to what you're describing in the manual... I put the spur center in the head stock spindle and the live center in the tail stock and lined them up.. I then tightened down the clamping bolt. I think this is basically what you described above..

Do you guys sharpen your gouges and scrapers at 45dgs?

Thank you all for the feedback and advice.

david

[Dave Paine]

Scott,

They actually mentioned something similar to what you're describing in the manual... I put the spur center in the head stock spindle and the live center in the tail stock and lined them up.. I then tightened down the clamping bolt. I think this is basically what you described above..


Be aware that if you rotate the headstock, the detent will not align the headstock between the rails. These days I avoid rotating my headstock.

I was having problems with drilling projects on the lathe. The drill bit wandered off. I had checked the alignment of the headstock and tailstock by having a spur centre in headstock and the cone live centre. I adjusted the tailstock to be aligned.

I continued to have drilling problems, even replaced the drill chuck, but no difference.

It took awhile before I realised I needed to check the headstock was locked in the middle of the bed ways. It was slightly off. Drat. Easy to correct, but lesson learned. If I ever move the headstock I will need to re-align the headstock BEFORE I check alignment with the tailstock.

I can now appreciate why some folks prefer lathes where the headstock does not rotate, but can be moved down the bed to the tailstock end for off lathe turning.

[Fred Belknap]

Do you guys sharpen your gouges and scrapers at 45dgs?


David I think most sharpen bowl gouges between 45° and 60°, spindle gouges 25° to 35° and scrapers around 70 to 80 degrees. It isn't an exact science as just about everyone has a personal favorite. Those figures ought to get you in the ball park.

[David Coburn]

Fred,

Thank you. I did find some information on the bowl gouges... Seems, like you, they were mainly in the 40 to 60 dg range... I then that David Ellsworth sharpened his students gouges at 60dg to give them better control (if that's a misquote, please forgive).. Anyhow, I move all three of mine to somewhere between 60 & 65dg and they do seem significantly easier to handle... Not so grabby...

again, thank you.
david

[David Coburn]

Well... The lathe is very nice... I need to learn a bit more about sharpening turning tools and what speeds are appropriate for what woods, what weight, where in the process, etc... and I need a better finishing process for sure...

but it was a lot of fun for the first time...

So, with no further ado, here it is... The first bowl off the lathe...

Walnut, 12" across, 3.5" deep... (sanded out to 400 & has Hut Crystal Coat on it mostly because I don't really know what else to do on a lathe... What do you guys finish with???)

282118


thanks,
david

[David Coburn]

I'm not trying to beat a dead thread but I at least wanted to show my weighting solution, pretty much what you guys recommended... Not a very good picture but it gets the point across... Thanks to all of you for the good information.... Ordered a bunch of blanks from woodturningblanks4you.com yesterday... I can tell already that this is going to be addictive.

3 bags of 60lb quickcrete + the lathe at somewhere around 440lbs... pretty stable and I could add another 2 bags if I wanted...

http://http://i120.photobucket.com/albums/o192/david_cii/weight_solution_zpsa35a6688.jpg (http://s120.photobucket.com/user/david_cii/media/weight_solution_zpsa35a6688.jpg.html)


david

[John Keeton]

Josh, and others, David has purchased a new lathe as indicated in the posts. He apparently is no longer in "search" mode!

Edit - David, that looks good. You might consider a couple of things - while the plywood will help with front/back splaying of the legs, if you were to connect the ends of the 2x's, it might relieve some of the stress on the upper bolt connecting the legs. Additionally, you could lay another piece of plywood on the bags, and cover it with drawer liner material for a more stable shelf for your tools.

[David Coburn]

Thank you John and everyone else as well..

The ply is screwed into the 2x6's at both ends and in the middle (total of 6 screws)... Do you think that would accomplish the same thing as a 2x4 across the ends (outer sides)? I definitely like the idea of the a better tool holder above the bags. Maybe something with some actual coves in it sized for the tools..

I want to ask a few questions but I think I'll start a new thread to do that since it would be completely off topic for this one. Anyway, the lathe is very nice, the cement bags make it very stable, the wolverine makes my chisels where they have a consistent bevel on them, the vari-grind jig opens a whole new world in regard to using a gouge, and just plain ole mineral spirits produce a pretty nice finish on mahogany....

thanks again,
david

[Jamie Donaldson]

You asked for recommendations for finishing, so here is the basic starting info. Friction finishes such as you mentioned are difficult to apply on larger turnings, and many turners try too many finishes to be able to master a predictable outcome. I suggest lacquer(often thinned with about 10% acetone for a sanding sealer) and Minwax Wiping Poly will cover about any needs you have for the near future. Finishing should not be an experiment with each new turning, and many turners have way too many finish cans on their workbenches!

[David Coburn]

Jamie,

Thank you for the advice... Can I use Minwax Wiping Poly on a Salad bowl or do food type bowls have a special finish? I've read where others have used two types for sure "Walnut oil" and "Mineral oil". I've also seen something at Woodcraft called butcher block finish so I would expect that would work as well..

thanks again,
david

[Jamie Donaldson]

Most all finishes are "food safe" when completely dry, but I use only mineral oil for "user" items that will contact food. Butcher Block finish is a mix of mineral oil and beeswax, quite fine for "user" applications. I don't like any nut oils because of the stigma attached to allergies, and most other organic based oils such as olive oil can turn rancid. Surface finishes such as the wiping poly are easily damaged in use, and not as easy to repair as the mineral oil or butcher block varieties of penetrating finishes.

[David Coburn]

Jamie,

Thanks for the feedback. I'll give the Minwax wiping poly a try and stick the mineral oil for any food type items...

thanks again,
david

[David C. Roseman]

[snip]...and just plain ole mineral spirits produce a pretty nice finish on mahogany....



David, did you mean mineral oil, rather than spirits?

David

[David Coburn]

David,

Yes, I meant to say mineral oil. I've seen several you tube videos where that was what they were using... There's one guy (I forgot his name) that uses a little bit of mineral oil with some crystal coat carnuba wax...

david

[Scott Hackler]

David, for a truly food safe oil type finish you should consider bee's wax if you want to add wax. Also make sure and inform anyone who to give a food save bowl to NOT put it in the dishwasher and re-oil it every 3-4 uses with mineral oil.

Fun huh???

Bad news is that you are caught in the turning vortex now and there will be no escaping all the tools and doodads you will want to get! Have you thought about attending the SWAT symposium in Waco? It's always a fantastic time.

[David Coburn]

Scott,

thanks for the info... On the beeswax thing are you saying "just beeswax" or beeswax after the mineral oil?

On the SWAT meeting.. I kinda doubt it as I've got 3 kids in school, a full time job, a wife that still likes to see me ever so often, and seem to always have a wood project going for somebody... and now this.. I'm gonna have to give up either eating or sleeping... not sure which yet...

one question... I saw your website... WOW, beautiful stuff... really amaIng!!! Did any of those pieces come off your 1624?

thanks again and cya,
david

[Bill Wyko]

I have a PM 4224 myself. Great customer service, excellent warranty and a rock solid reputation. I know it's probably bigger than you have in mind but the bottom line is....go as big as you possibly can, if you don't you'll probably go bigger again later. Good luck.

[Scott Hackler]

thanks for the info... On the beeswax thing are you saying "just beeswax" or beeswax after the mineral oil?

Bee's wax after oiling it and allowing it to sit for a while. Not needed per se but it will add some protection, shine and water proofing.

On the SWAT meeting.. I kinda doubt it as I've got 3 kids in school, a full time job, a wife that still likes to see me ever so often, and seem to always have a wood project going for somebody... and now this.. I'm gonna have to give up either eating or sleeping... not sure which yet...

Your only 2 1/2 hours from Waco and trust me when I say that one day attending the demos and seeing the Instant Gallery, will sling slot your skill level. I drive about 8 hours to attend every year and wouldn't miss it. It is constantly referred to as the best symposium in the country.

one question... I saw your website... WOW, beautiful stuff... really amaIng!!! Did any of those pieces come off your 1624?

Yes! Everything on my website, to date, came off the Nova 1624. I just bought the Vicmarc so the only thing off it is the posted rice bowls and a couple pepper mills. Thanks for the kind words.