Sawstop considerations

[Tom Ward]

I have read and heard the pros and cons of those who love Sawstop and those who don't care for Sawstop. I recently sold my Delta contractors saw, (first tablesaw), and have considered purchase of a a PCS. After 32 years in a machine shop I'm still VERY attached to my digits and plan to stay that way. Comments from all would be appreciated in regard to a 1.75 or 3 hp and why? Opinions on a 36 or 52 inch version and why. My understanding is the combination would take an area approximately 3.5 by 10 feet for the 52 inch version if I were to purchase an Incra combo 4. Also would like to hear about a mobile base or making my own as most of my equipment is on plywood with 3 inch locking casters. Love my track saw, however there are things that would be easier with a tablesaw. Incra precision and combined router table is something I've considered for purchase and read each and every comment I can find or get my hands on about this combination. One post that comes to mind via the Sawmill is a machined bar to support the wings prior to installing a Incra TS LS as I am concerned about anything other than steel holding the wings tightly together. This a hobby for me and is not done for a living, however questions bring out things I may not have considered prior to purchase. My goal is to obtain the most value as with all purchases.

Thanks to all in advance for opinions and comments

[Mike Heidrick]

Have 220V available? If yes get the 3hp - its not much difference in price so why wouldn't you get 3hp?

You have the space and don't mine consuming the space for the 52" Get the 52. Why wouldn't you.

Get the sawstop base with the hydraulic lift. It lifts the whole table and saw. and sets it all on the ground.

Just my opinions - this is a personal choice and my ideas have no bearing on your needs.

[Keith Hankins]

Well until this crappy weather, I was to receive my 5hp ICS tomorrow. I sold my Grizzly 1023slx to help fund, so I came from a 3hp cabinet saw. Prior to that I had a shopsmith an defore that a contractor saw. I like you been doing this for a long time and operate in a safe manner, but it can happen in a blink of an eye. So I understand where you are coming from. I would be getting the PCS if they offered a 5hp option. It's a lot of money but nothing compared to a trip to the doctor. So with all that out of the way, what you land on really depends on what you want to do. If it were me, I'd not do the 1.75 hp just because you are already spending a ton of money, I just don't think it would be long before you regretted it. If you can only do 110 power then its an easy call. I've been looking at all of them for two years now. The contractor version aint bad. At a minimum, I'd upgrade the pressed steel to the cast iron. As to the fence the t-glide is much better than the regular fence. It's the besemyer clone thats real good. If you can swing the pcs, and 3hp thats the sweet spot. As to the 36 or 52, thats a consideration for space only. If you have the space and will ever want to do real wide stuff its a nice. I was not going to get it till right at the end and spent the 100 bucks to get the bigger fence. Thats really up to you and depends on your shop space. Oh one other thing the nice splitter with integrated dust collection is standard on the PCS and ICS, but an extra option on the contractor! Keep that in mind. I never imagined I'd be plunking down this much for a saw, but I've scrimped and saved and want the technology. It don't hurt its a heck of a saw. I know there's politics playing in this but I will stay out of that. Anyway thats what my thought process was and how I wound up at my choice. Good luck and take care. No matter what you get post pic's with a big tool gloat.

[Paul Cogliano]

I really have no complaints with my Hitachi table saw. It's well-maintained and accurately calibrated. I have several jigs to use with it.
I saw a SawStop at Rockler's 2 weeks ago and I haven't been able to stop thinking about it. In researching the saw on the web, I have become convinced that it is a superior saw in many ways and I feel almost relieved to think that I will have the brake technology sitting there in the background protecting me from a possible accident. So the Hitachi is history.
I have ordered a 36" PCS, 1.75hp and encourage you to look closely at the reviews and comments.
Our hands are too prescious to leave to chance.
I chose the 36" because I wanted the better fence;
The 52" is just a little too big to move around my shop;
I think for what I'll be cutting, the 1.75hp is adequate (the shop has 120v). If I had 220, I'd consider the 3hp;
I debated about which mobile base to install & chose the less expensive...it seemed OK at Rockler's but I still might go for the pump job;
Good luck with your evaluation. Have fun with the process. I think the money is well-spent.

[William C Rogers]

Agree with everything Mike said. I prefer to run full kerf blades so the 3hp would make more sense to me. IMOP from what I have read about SawStop is their quality is very good. Their technology is good, however they tried to force it on the industry rather than making it a choice. If I were buying new I would get the 52 inch because I have the room, get the 3 hp for the extra power, and most likely get the SawStop. I don't have a track saw and will say I don't use beyond 36 inches very much. I have the Incra, but not the table saw version. I looked at mounting it with the saw, but it didn't feel comfortable to me. My router table is a couple of inches higher than my table saw and I prefer working with the router in it's own table. Love the Incra for the router, but not sure I would like it for the table saw. I use a Besemeyer fence and that is fine for the saw and really don't need 0.001 accuracy for the saw. I usually get within 0.005 with the Besemeyer when I need to.

[Dave Bonde]

I have a PM 66 52" fence at home and just replaced a 60's Uni saw at school (I teach at a middle school) with a 1.75 hp Sawstop 30" fence. My thoughts on the Sawstop are it is a quality saw and I really like the riving knife and the blade guard is one of the best factory guards I have used. If I were buying a Sawstop for myself I would buy the 3 hp. The 1.75 hp does fine but I can tell a difference especially if my blade is not super sharp. An interesting observation - when I am preparing material for students or cutting when students are not present I do find myself "less focused" when using the Sawstop. I'm not sure I would go as far as to say I take more risks but maybe I do - I don't like that about myself and has nothing to do with the saw but it is interesting. My students don't know the saw has extra safety features and I don't tell them. I purchased the saw with the idea I want to provide my students with the safest environment I can. On a negative point I have had the brake fire twice. The first time I turned the saw on it went thumb and that was it, saw never started. The second I went to turn the saw on and the red light was flashing, the brake had fired saw was never turned on. A price I am willing to pay in my work situation but am not sure I would purchase a saw stop for myself because of that.

[mreza Salav]

Get the 3HP for sure. I had a contractor saw before (1.5HP) and when I got my ICS (3HP) I thought that's more than enough, but I have felt sometimes I could have used a little bit more power when ripping 8/4 Maple (if I had the option now I'd get the 5HP).

[Larry Frank]

I have the 3 HP 36" PCS with the industrial base. It is the base with the hydraulics and I think it is the best base in my shop. I move the saw easily around my shop at times when I need more room for a project.

I would certainly get the 3 HP model as it does have more power and it would be easier to sell if you had to.

I have had the saw for several years and had the cartridge fire once because I was stupid and ran my Incra 1000SE miter gauge into it. If I had the issues that Dave described with the brake firing I would call SawStop to find out what happened.

I know that some others think that people will be less safe because they can rely on the brake mechanism but I do not find that at all. In fact, I am even more aware because I do not really want to waste the money on a new brake cartridge and new blade.

I think that it is as good a saw as you can find with the build quality and ease of use. I have absolutely no regrets with the saw at all.

[Kent A Bathurst]

Tom:

Very simple. Pick what you want, and then go large. As large as your shop dimensions will allow.

Get the HP. Get the table size.

Then, you will never sit there wishing you had gotten something bigger. Small change, in the long run.

"Cry Once" is the motto.

[John Coloccia]

I would also go 3HP if you can. I had the 1.75 contractor (no PCS at the time) and it did fine, but it did struggle just a bit with thick walnut and maple. As far as build quality, no issues with the PCS. Honestly, my contractor generally cut as well and any cabinet saw I've used...really solid, even on the low end of their products.

I'm wondering, though. If you don't have the room to leave the saw in place, will the longer fence allow you to efficiently move it around the shop?

[Tom Ward]

Should have mentioned it eariler as I have the room in the garage. May have to move a vehicle or the tractor out for a while, but that's the reason I have most things on casters. Sincerely appreciate the comments from everyone.

[Clay Fails]

Have 220V available? If yes get the 3hp - its not much difference in price so why wouldn't you get 3hp?

You have the space and don't mine consuming the space for the 52" Get the 52. Why wouldn't you.

Get the sawstop base with the hydraulic lift. It lifts the whole table and saw. and sets it all on the ground.

Just my opinions - this is a personal choice and my ideas have no bearing on your needs.

I agree with Mike. I have the 3hp ICS, and am very happy with it.

[johnny means]

I have the 5 horse ICS with the 36" fence. So, of course, I think the 3 horse is your best choice. I also think, unless you have a very large space, that 52"of rip capacity is superfluous. My monstrous Martin slider doesn't have that much capacity to the right of the blade. Nothing that wide should be cut using the rip fence. In fact, nothing should be cross cut using the rip fence. My SS is parked up against a wall and I've never needed any more space on the right hand side of the table.

[Jim Neeley]

The big plus of the 52" for some is it lets you crosscut a piece of any size off of a 4'x8' piece of plywood. For example, if you want to cut a sheet into two pieces, one 46" and one 50" you can set your fence for either 46" or 50" and make the cut, knowing the first cut will be parallel to the end and cuts on both ends will be straight and clean. With a 36" saw, its not so easy.

Some folks don't like wielding such a big piece of ply or don't have the space so the go with a smaller saw and use a circular or track saw to make the cuts. It's a matter of personal preference but that's the big advantage.

A smaller advantage is the 52" leaves more space if you generally cut narrower stuff, you can convert the far end into a router table, only moving the router table setup on the occasion you need the capacity.

Just my $0.02.. YMMV.

Jim

[Brian Williamson]

I have the 3hp 36" ics with the mobile base. I'm very happy with the purchase and would recommend it to anyone who was considering this tool. :)

[Ty Williams]

So you get where I’m coming from, I got a 1.75hp PCS with the TS-LS fence and the full-meal-deal router table/fence/joinery kit combo. I also am using the 1000HD miter gauge.

1) 1.75hp vs 3hp is a red herring unless you’re a volume-based professional shop. There’s basically nothing a 3hp will do that a 1.75 can’t do but it’ll do a lot of it quite a lot slower. I got the 1.75hp PCS because it makes absolutely no difference to me how many linear feet of 12/4 hard maple I can rip in a day. It just makes no difference to my life. However, the $300 in my pocket AND the fact that I might someday want to use the saw in a place without 240V electricity are nice benefits to the 1.75hp.

2) 36 vs 56 rip capacity is, to me, also an unimportant issue. I grew up using table saws but the first tool I got when I started building my own shop was a Festool tracksaw. Having grown up breaking down sheet goods on a table saw, then getting to experience a track saw, and now having access to a PCS… well, sheet goods never get broken down on the table saw anymore. It’s just insane to me that people would try in a world where tracksaws exist. It’s easier to be accurate, it’s less straining, and it’s safer. The only thing the “rip capacity” does for me is to allow me to move the fence to the right to get it out of the way of cross cuts. I have a VERY small shop. There’s NO room to the left of the table saw at all. So if the stick I’m cross-cutting is longer than the distance from the saw blade to edge of the left extension wing, the stick has to get flipped around to the right so that the short portion rides on the miter gauge and the long portion runs off to the right over the router table. This means that I have to move the fence way to the right to cut long sticks. If the work is long enough, it means I actually have to remove the fence and bridge from the rails (which isn’t really much worse than doing it on a normal fence, but it still makes me frown) in order to have room. Again, this is only because the left edge of the saw is pressed up against a wall.

3) Get the Industrial Mobile Base and the conversion kit to put the PCS into it. Yes, it’s like 12 million dollars but you’re obviously not afraid of buying things if you’re getting a SawStop and Incra decorations. Compared to all the other mobile bases I’ve bought and made, the SS Industrial is just in a league of its own. The hydraulic foot pump to lift it is amazing as is the gentle way it lowers the saw back onto the ground. The 4 swivel casters make it incredibly easy to position and “parallel park” the saw, which is going to be important with a saw of that size and the length of fence you’re putting on it.

4) As said, I have the Incra right side router table with their version of the PRL V2 lift in it. I love the lift. I love the table. I love using the fence with the table. I *HATE* having my router table and table saw connected to each other. I’m finding that I often want to switch repeatedly back and forth between table sawing and routing. It’s an utter pain in the butt to have both them on using the same table and the same fence. I have such a small shop that I really have no other option but it makes me long for a larger shop where I can have separate tools with a TS-LS system on on and a LS Positioner system on the other.

5) You’ll love the TS-LS, btw. It’s very, very awesome to work with.

[Craig Hoehn]

I decedid to go with a 3HP PCS w/ 52" fence last year so here is my reccomendations:

1) If your shop doesnt have 220V you should seriously consider adding it. For me all I had to do was run one cable from my panel and make an outlet, cost less than $100.

2) You will not regret a 3HP saw. Granted you probably dont need it most of the time if you are cutting joinery or sheet goods but it sure is nice when you are ripping 8/4 hardwood. I ripped some 8/4 walnut last week and I was very pleased with how the saw performed. I would only want a larger saw if I was doing this all day.

3) If you have a ton of shop space then get the 52" but if you are even debating it then I would say get the 36". I went big because I dont have a track saw, but if I had a track saw I would rather have the smaller fence and use a track saw for those awkward cuts.

[Keith Hankins]

I decedid to go with a 3HP PCS w/ 52" fence last year so here is my reccomendations:

1) If your shop doesnt have 220V you should seriously consider adding it. For me all I had to do was run one cable from my panel and make an outlet, cost less than $100.

2) You will not regret a 3HP saw. Granted you probably dont need it most of the time if you are cutting joinery or sheet goods but it sure is nice when you are ripping 8/4 hardwood. I ripped some 8/4 walnut last week and I was very pleased with how the saw performed. I would only want a larger saw if I was doing this all day.

3) If you have a ton of shop space then get the 52" but if you are even debating it then I would say get the 36". I went big because I dont have a track saw, but if I had a track saw I would rather have the smaller fence and use a track saw for those awkward cuts.


I'm with you get the biggest you can afford and space for. When you amortize that cost diff over the life of the saw, it's not really that much get what you want. Second, I have never ever bought a tool and said, dang that's too much power wished I'd got a lesser powered tool.

I remember my wife telling me when I was looking at a Harley, "YOU DON'T NEED A HARLEY", and I replied, Madam, need has nothing to do with it. :)

[Shawn Pixley]

4) As said, I have the Incra right side router table with their version of the PRL V2 lift in it. I love the lift. I love the table. I love using the fence with the table. I *HATE* having my router table and table saw connected to each other. I’m finding that I often want to switch repeatedly back and forth between table sawing and routing. It’s an utter pain in the butt to have both them on using the same table and the same fence. I have such a small shop that I really have no other option but it makes me long for a larger shop where I can have separate tools with a TS-LS system on on and a LS Positioner system on the other.


I'm going in the opposite direction. I am trying to get ride of a separate router table and put it into the Table Saw. I don't use the router table much and would like the space back. The truth is I don't like routers much.

To the OP, I would go 3 HP PCS with 36" fence. Like John C, I have the 1.75 HP SS Contractor saw (PCS wasn't out yet), CI wings, folding outfeed table, shopmade drawers below, mobility base, and the 36" fence. I haven't found anything I couldn't do. The biggest critique would be the lack of power causes some minor burning when ripping thick maple.

[Alan Schwabacher]

I also have a 1.75 HP saw with 36" rip capacity and have never missed the larger motor or fence position. When I rip thick maple, I use a rip blade rather than a combo, which I think makes as much or more difference than 3 vs 1.75 HP.

Some people's work requires more HP or rip capacity, though it seems to me if that's true you know it already. If you ask, it's likely you don't need it. But need is not the only factor: 3 HP doesn't cost much more, so if you anticipate always having 240 V power, you might as well get it.

[Andrew Pitonyak]

I prefer to run full kerf blades so the 3hp would make more sense to me.

Makes it easier to power through that thick hard wood. I went with the other so that I could use 120V, but I use a thin kerf blad... also, I don't cut a lot of thick stuff.



IMOP from what I have read about SawStop is their quality is very good. Their technology is good, however they tried to force it on the industry rather than making it a choice.

Great quality, best assembly instructions I have seen. That technology you mention, does limit the Dado width that you can use, that is my only complaint with it so far.



I don't have a track saw and will say I don't use beyond 36 inches very much.

I use my track saw often.



When I cut down sheet goods, it is just easier and I can't just set my fence to perform a 40" rip (sadly).
I don't own a jointer, so I will frequently use my track saw to create a straight cut along a rough edge; especially on longer pieces.



My router table is a couple of inches higher than my table saw and I prefer working with the router in it's own table.

Sadly, I don't have room for a router table, so I built mine into the table saw top (to the right of the blade).

The fence on the Saw Stop comes to the same height as the top, which means that I did not a groove to install a track; very sad.

[David Gutierrez]

i went with the 3hp pcs with the 36 rip capacity. my hope is this will be the last saw i purchase and did not want to have a under powered saw. you can increase the rip capacity by moving the fence rails over one set of bolt holes. Search for it on google. i am space constricted in the garage everything needs to be mobile so adding a out feed table, which is needed for sheet was not a good option for me. The mobile is great not problems moving the saw and there is one pedal to raise ad lower. not sure how well that will work with a 52"rip capacity. Have to mention that this is my "hobby" and this saw great.

[Rob Price]

was one of the 'beta testers' of the PCS when it first came out, and I've been nothing but thrilled with it. Just for fun pulled the dial caliper out and the fence and blade are still dead on. I've got the 3HP, it's been plenty. I would definitely get that if you can. I bought the 52" fence, at the time I was doing a lot of sheet goods projects, I do less of that now, and for the most part the extension is just another horizaontal surface to put stuff on. It does make it less mobile, but I haven't moved mine since I set it up. I have the basic built in lever style mobile base. Haven't used it yet, but not having swivels could be a problem if you're moving it regularly.

Still the best mobile base I've ever used was the herc-u-lift on my old Ridgid TS.

[Kevin Womer]

I have the 3hp pcs. I love everything about it, but what is really impressive is the heavy duty base for mobility. I went with the 36 inch fence and I haven't found a need for a wider fence system as for those rare times when I need to break down ply I use a guide and circular saw then just clean up the edges on the SS. For me space trumped the need for a wider fence system. It is a really impressive saw.

[Andy Pratt]

I have the 52" ICS, 3hp, 230v. I have cut 8/4 jatoba with it (I don't use a power feed) and it can cut it as fast as I can feed it. So, 3hp is more than adequate for anything you can hand feed in the thing. I think dropping to 1.75hp is a bad idea for the small difference in price, I feel like that power difference would matter whereas the 3hp vs 5hp would not matter much for me.

52" lets you figure out a way to make any cut you need to on a sheet of plywood providing you have 8' of clearance to the left of the blade, and give you more room work with when cutting dadoes on large pieces. Unless space is a critical concern, I think the 52" is far more useful than the smaller offerings, and would do everything I could to find room for it if I was setting up a shop.

[Larry Frank]

Like others have said, if you can plenty of space for the longer rails get them. Even if I had the space for them, I probably would not use them as it is too much for me alone to put a full sheet of plywood on the saw yet alone handle it.

I use a tracksaw for breaking down all of my sheet goods. The Festool track saw does a great job with no splinters.

My first cabinet saw was a Jet with the long rails and actually purchased the shorter rails for it later on.

[scott spencer]

The horsepower difference will be noticeable from the moment you hit the start button. It'll handle everything the 1.75hp will handle and then some....it should allow you to dictate the feed rate, and will be less sensitive to blade selection. If you've got 220v, the only advantage of the 1.75hp is the moderate price difference.

[Earl Rumans]

If you're going 220v, by the time you get the 220v wiring kit and the better fence for the 1.75 hp saw, the price difference is almost negligible.