Track Saw Parallel Rips Sheet goods: Any good demo's out there?

[Peter Quinn]

I've recently ordered a makita track saw for the home shop, main purpose is to break down sheet goods. My shop is in a basement, I built a new small garage that will become my carcuss assembly area. I don't want to carry full sheets down the bilco or large boxes back up anymore. I'm looking for a good reasonable method to make repeatable rip cuts with a track saw on 8' sheets, and by reasonable I mean accurate and very fast. I'm looking for an idea to copy and coming up empty. I see the parallel guides from festool, I'm told they fit the makita tracks......problem is they don't fit my budget. Anybody have a link or shop made solution to make fast repeatable rip. I'm having visions of either a shop made version of the parallel guides, some large gauge blocks for common sizes ( i.e. 13", 23 1/4"), or a beam saw type effect like an MFT cross cut fence turned sideways but longer. I'd much rather steal a good idea than actually engineer this myself. My needs are to make a lot of the same rips more so than a great variety of different rip sizes.

[Steve Friedman]

Take a look at the guides sold by Seneca Woodworking and RipDog Tools for the Festool.

Steve

[Harvey Miller]

There’s some homemade sets out there (I think links to another forum is a no-no on Sawmill Creek) using Incra or Kreg T-tracks. I had good results using a Starrett Combo square referenced off the cut side before I got my Senecas (remember to account for blade width). Not as fast as with the guides but still decent speed and accuracy. I was doing 14” rips eight feet long.

[Rick Potter]

For the type and frequency of cuts you are talking about, and cost being a consideration, I think you have answered your own question already. Guide blocks. Tack an overhanging edge on them and clamp them on lickity split (wood pun). When you make a seldom used cut, you could have some extra spacers to use in conjunction with them...IE 2", 3", etc.

Rick Potter

[Rich Engelhardt]

You might want to ask over at the FOG forum - Festool Owner's Group.
They have a ton of excellent shop made accessories for the track saw(s).

My solution is really low tech.
I have a 48" metal ruler that I quick clamp a block of wood to.
I set the track on the cut line, then set the rule/stop from the edge to the back of the track.

Just to be safe, I measure and run another cut line to line up the track with.
It's unnecessary since the rule/block so far have been spot on.

[Mike Goetzke]

I've recently ordered a makita track saw for the home shop, main purpose is to break down sheet goods. My shop is in a basement, I built a new small garage that will become my carcuss assembly area. I don't want to carry full sheets down the bilco or large boxes back up anymore. I'm looking for a good reasonable method to make repeatable rip cuts with a track saw on 8' sheets, and by reasonable I mean accurate and very fast. I'm looking for an idea to copy and coming up empty. I see the parallel guides from festool, I'm told they fit the makita tracks......problem is they don't fit my budget. Anybody have a link or shop made solution to make fast repeatable rip. I'm having visions of either a shop made version of the parallel guides, some large gauge blocks for common sizes ( i.e. 13", 23 1/4"), or a beam saw type effect like an MFT cross cut fence turned sideways but longer. I'd much rather steal a good idea than actually engineer this myself. My needs are to make a lot of the same rips more so than a great variety of different rip sizes.

Check out the UEG (universal edge guide) from Eurekazone. Perfect for making parallel rips on sheet goods.

Mike

[Rick Moyer]

I just use a home-made (to fit my circular saw) guide and cut sheet goods on a table similar to this one http://www.thewoodshop.20m.com/panel_cutting_table.htm .
I made a table like this one except I used 1x3's on edge to keep it lighter. I also made it the same height as the floor of my Suburban so I can just side out a sheet of plywood out of the vehicle onto the table, clamp my guide on, and cut away. I made it 2'6" x 5' which allows enough support for a 4x8 sheet. You can cut right across anywhere, just set your depth slightly below your stock. I haven't cut a ton of material on it, but the frame shows no signs of needing replaced anytime soon.

[Loren Woirhaye]

I thought about this when I used a Festool saw a lot. This was before Festool introduced most of the accessories available today and in fact my rails were the older ones so attaching things to the edge wasn't feasible. I came up with a few ideas. One of the better ones I thought was a panel gauge, which is a big marking gauge.

I agree that using something like the UEG is the simplest solution. You can straighten the first edge with your track saw, then switch to a standard circular saw mounted on the UEG.

[Kelly Colin Mark]

Take a look at the guides sold by Seneca Woodworking and RipDog Tools for the Festool.

Steve
I've never used them, but the consensus on the FOG seems to be that the Seneca Woodworking guides are much easier - and less expensive - to use than the Festool parallel guides. I have the latter, and to me they're a massive PITA. They're awkward to store (if you have the narrow piece extensions), fiddly to even put on the rails, and they aren't really that easy to use on larger pieces, at least if all you have is the MFT or a single flat bench. If you want to rip narrow pieces (i.e. narrower than the width of the rail) you need to buy the extensions too.

If I had to do it over again, I'd buy the Seneca guides. Off hand, though I don't remember if these assume you're using an MFT, which I would guess the OP doesn't have ?

[Peter Quinn]

The seneca stuff looks great, but is as expensive or more than festool guides. I'm thinking the ripdog tools rip guide clamps seems possible at $60, perhaps part of a shop made solution, good way to transition from rails to guides. I'm going to get the rails in my hands first, see what I can machine. Maybe the solution is a rail made of MDF for 8' sheets rather than using the aluminum rails, parallel guides built in. Maybe a few basic sizes built in using pins to hold gauge blocks. The makita saw probably needs to stay on the keeper side of the cut as it doesn't have the outboard splinter guide like the festool if I understand it correctly. I'm also not opposed to making rips on the table saw as necessary once a straight edge is established and the sheets are split in half. I'm going to poke around on FOG to see what additional ideas I can find. Thanks again for the input guys.

[Peter Quinn]

I've never used them, but the consensus on the FOG seems to be that the Seneca Woodworking guides are much easier - and less expensive - to use than the Festool parallel guides. I have the latter, and to me they're a massive PITA. They're awkward to store (if you have the narrow piece extensions), fiddly to even put on the rails, and they aren't really that easy to use on larger pieces, at least if all you have is the MFT or a single flat bench. If you want to rip narrow pieces (i.e. narrower than the width of the rail) you need to buy the extensions too.

If I had to do it over again, I'd buy the Seneca guides. Off hand, though I don't remember if these assume you're using an MFT, which I would guess the OP doesn't have ?

I don't have an MFT and have no intention of getting one, I'm planning to make a knock down or fold down bench. Narrow rips will happen on the table saw, this is really about carcuss parts for plywood cabinets. Good to know about the festool guides, they have that fussy look.

[Charles Lent]

I use a table similar to the link posted by Rick Moyer in #7. With it I use a guide made from a 6" wide strip of 1/2" plywood with an attached 1 1/2" wide strip of 1/2" plywood to guide the saw. The circular saw's shoe sits on the top of the 6" wide piece and up against the narrow piece. Your first cut trims the 6" wide piece to fit the shoe of your saw to blade distance so after that the edge of this guide will be your cut line. After this first cut you can position this guide exactly where you want the edge of the project plywood to be cut and clamp it into position. Then set the depth on your circular saw, while it's sitting on your new guide fence, to cut past the guide fence and through your project plywood plus about 1/4". Then make your cut, while holding the shoe of your circular saw tight against the strip on the top of the guide fence. The fence will act like a zero clearance insert to keep the project plywood that's under the fence splinter free. If you want the off cut to also be splinter free you can attach a small piece of 1/2" plywood to the outside front of your saw shoe. Keep it toward the front of the saw and short enough that it clears the motion of the saw guard, but is alongside the tooth area of the blade. As the blade teeth come up through the wood being cut this piece of wood will prevent splintering of the project wood and produce a zero clearance type cut on your off cut piece of wood. So for a cost of about $35 you can build a cutting table and a straight edge guide for your circular saw including the zero clearance splinter reduction. For the best cuts I use a narrow kerf high tooth count blade in the circular saw that I use for breaking down my plywood, and I don't use this saw or blade for anything else.

Charley

[Peter Quinn]

I use a table similar to the link posted by Rick Moyer in #7. With it I use a guide made from a 6" wide strip of 1/2" plywood with an attached 1 1/2" wide strip of 1/2" plywood to guide the saw. The circular saw's shoe sits on the top of the 6" wide piece and up against the narrow piece. Your first cut trims the 6" wide piece to fit the shoe of your saw to blade distance so after that the edge of this guide will be your cut line. After this first cut you can position this guide exactly where you want the edge of the project plywood to be cut and clamp it into position. Then set the depth on your circular saw, while it's sitting on your new guide fence, to cut past the guide fence and through your project plywood plus about 1/4". Then make your cut, while holding the shoe of your circular saw tight against the strip on the top of the guide fence. The fence will act like a zero clearance insert to keep the project plywood that's under the fence splinter free. If you want the off cut to also be splinter free you can attach a small piece of 1/2" plywood to the outside front of your saw shoe. Keep it toward the front of the saw and short enough that it clears the motion of the saw guard, but is alongside the tooth area of the blade. As the blade teeth come up through the wood being cut this piece of wood will prevent splintering of the project wood and produce a zero clearance type cut on your off cut piece of wood. So for a cost of about $35 you can build a cutting table and a straight edge guide for your circular saw including the zero clearance splinter reduction. For the best cuts I use a narrow kerf high tooth count blade in the circular saw that I use for breaking down my plywood, and I don't use this saw or blade for anything else.

Charley

This has been my strategy for some years now, I have a variety of shop made sleds of various lengths for different work, and they work well. But measuring, marking, sliding up to a line, thats far to cumbersome IME to do this on a small commercial scale. I'm feeling the average kitchen should take one man four hours to cut all the sheet stock. Thats the goal. I've ordered the track saw for that and for its plunge capacity on installs, I'm occasionally required to do sink cut outs or other blind cuts, dropping a spinning skill saw into 2" maple butcher block will get all those hairs on the back of your neck standing up! I've found the dust collection on the plunge saws is a great asset for field work too, been using a festool at work for a while, often long scribes can be accomplished quite easily with a straight cut and a bit of block plane tuning. But no contractor likes having huge plumes of dust on their site when finishes are being undertaken, and I don't much like cleaning up huge messes or taking large cabinets outside in the cold or rain to cut them. I think the fold up table is in order, excellent link, my sheet goods will slide into a full sized van at the lumber yard, van backs up to garage, sheets slide out of van onto cutting table, get cut and stacked, nothing over #40 ever needs to be lifted. I may evolve this into a track router set up too to handle dado's! I'm thinking I can make a shop made track with a piece of HMWP as a guide bar for the track saw, the long aluminum tracks are over $300. I think I can accomplish that functionality with a shop made sled tailored to the track saw.

[Jim Matthews]

+ 1 on the simple Eurekazone jig.

The first edge needs to be straight, and all subsequent cuts will follow.

[mreza Salav]

Peter, I'm in your boat. Have a track saw and soon will have to tackle a large cabinet project (1 kitchen + 5.5 baths!). Have been looking for good rip guides and the ones from Seneca Woodworking seem way too expensive for what they are (even at half that price is expensive). I guess some of these are pricing themselves based on Festool pricing. There are some similar ones I've seen on e-bay (just search for festool parallel guides or something similar).
Let us know what you come up with.

[Keith Hankins]

You ought to reconsider the festool parallel guides. I know they are not cheap at 260$, but once you use them you will be hooked. Repeatable, fast, and no fuss set up. I've had mine since they first came out. I'm not sure they will fit the makita track (i have the ts55), but if they do, its worth it. JM2CW

[Kevin Jenness]

I'm with Rick Potter. Just make gauge blocks for your most frequent rip sizes with additional blocks for odd sizes, butt one end to the sheet edge and the other to the track, clamp if you must, and rip away.

[Chris Parks]

You need two straight edges and two of these or similar http://www.leevalley.com/US/Wood/page.aspx?p=53825&cat=1,43513

Set the measurement on one of the straight edges and lay the other straight edge on the one already set and set it. Now place each straight edge at each end of the cut and butt the track up to the ends of the straight edges. I don't suggest wooden blocks as stops as they aren't accurate enough. Over the track lengths available it only takes a minute amount of error to be a long way out of square. I have had the same issue when I borrowed a track saw and wish I had thought of this idea at the time. I suppose you could use any straight bit of steel, round bar etc as a setting tool.

[Robyn Horton]

You need two straight edges and two of these or similar http://www.leevalley.com/US/Wood/page.aspx?p=53825&cat=1,43513

Set the measurement on one of the straight edges and lay the other straight edge on the one already set and set it. Now place each straight edge at each end of the cut and butt the track up to the ends of the straight edges. I don't suggest wooden blocks as stops as they aren't accurate enough. Over the track lengths available it only takes a minute amount of error to be a long way out of square. I have had the same issue when I borrowed a track saw and wish I had thought of this idea at the time. I suppose you could use any straight bit of steel, round bar etc as a setting tool.

That sounds like a great idea Chris I'm going to have to try it

[Rick Potter]

Going with Chris' idea, how about a simple hardwood block with a round steel bar going through it, with a little wing nut to tighten it. Cheap and easy.

Rick Potter

[Peter Quinn]

The saw arrives tomorrow. I'm thinking along the lines of Rick's original idea, a stick with block screwed to it. Actually I'll figure out the off sets required, then make one piece of BB plywood up with a perpendicular stop piece glued to one end, then rip this in half so the distance is exactly the same. Basically I need one for uppers, one for lowers. This won't be replacing my TS so I don't need infinitely adjustable stops, or even frequently adjustable. Its a two trick pony....or maybe occasionally a third odd size for fridge cabs or such, but there are rarely more than one fridge cab in a kitchen, I could probably measure those. I'm not sure the best way to connect the stops to the fence, do toilet bolts fit in there like the t tracks you can buy? I received the clamps for the rails, and they don't fit in t tracks. I don't mind machining something out of phenolic or even aluminum if required, or perhaps muting the ones listed above to make the rail to parallel stops connection. Not sure I see the value in the $260 set ups if I don't really need the adjustability.

I like the Lee Valley ruler stops and have wanted one of those for a while, but I don't think a ruler that size is rigid enough over the distance involved, I don't see a way to connect that the of setup to the rail, and most importantly my rulers presently are Starret, they stay in the shop for layout, and they cost more to replace than the festool stop system, so they are staying put! The actual distance is not as important as the relative distance, 23 1/4" rip.....23 5/16" rip, irrelevant as long as both stops are the same and edges are parallel. I'll post some pics when its set up, probably going to be made of wood!

[Lee Reep]

I have a Festool track saw and bought the Seneca Woodworking parallel guides. They are not cheap, but they were less expensive than the Festool parallel guides, and have gotten rave reviews. They are an absolute delight to use, as is the Festool track saw and guide rail system. The guides from Rip Dogs look very similar, and are a little cheaper. Perhaps either company can advise if these might fit the Makita track.

I do not own an an MFT, but CNC'd my own top with 20mm holes for use with bench dogs and rail dogs.

[Keith Weber]

My solution is simple, cheap, effective, and common. Just a couple of strips of MDF or nice ply glued together. Cut the lower one about an inch longer than you need it, and then run the circular saw along the upper rail to cut off the excess. When you use it, just line up the edge of the guide along your line and clamp it down as shown below in my "picture is worth 1000 words" SketchUp image. Remember to leave enough width on the upper part that your circular saw will clear your clamps (DAMHIKT!)

Keith

282102

[Lee Reep]

One thing I forgot to mention. I'd highly recommend Googling "Paulk Homes" or see the "Paulk Workbench" YouTube videos. Ron Paulk is a home builder that developed his own portable bench system for Festool track saw use. I delayed buying a SawStop saw because of the cabinet work that Paulk and others are doing with Festool track saws. You get tear out-free cuts because of the splinterguards on the saw and the guide rail. Lots of cabinet makers and remodelers out there using this system to build cabinets. And it could certainly be part of a system for other track saws or even regular circular saws, with some accessory guides. Ron's bench is pretty neat since it is portable, light, strong, and incorporates support for a small contractor saw. I needed something similar, but no portability required. But I have a small shop so cutting 4x8 sheets is simpler when you are not feeding the sheet, but instead sliding the saw along the sheet sitting on your bench. My bench is also the out feed table for the contractor saw I decided to keep. I did breathe some new life into it by installing a Forrest blade.

[Mike Goetzke]

Check out the UEG (universal edge guide) from Eurekazone. Perfect for making parallel rips on sheet goods.

Mike

Found some pictures (found a perfect use for my 18V Makita - this is easy to carry):

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v212/mbg/Projects/Router%20Table/Cut%20Panels/IMG_0010_zpscbf9274c.jpg (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/mbg/media/Projects/Router%20Table/Cut%20Panels/IMG_0010_zpscbf9274c.jpg.html)
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v212/mbg/Projects/Router%20Table/Cut%20Panels/IMG_0011_zps61fff707.jpg (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/mbg/media/Projects/Router%20Table/Cut%20Panels/IMG_0011_zps61fff707.jpg.html)

Mike

[Chris Parks]

I was thinking as I typed, literally the idea came as I was typing the post. Any round bar would be ideal with a stop on it with maybe one or two little improvements. The stop would be a fence type stop with some length to it for stability especially when using the first set stop as a story stick for the second. Chasing a round stop and bar and trying to hold it while setting the second would get old fairly quickly. Beyond that I don't think that you can beat simple and it sure would be cheap but more importantly accurate. I have always stayed away from track saws for the simple reason of setting the track to an accurate and square dimension but I might buy one now.

[Rick Potter]

I am curious to see what you come up with Peter. I am sure it will be more elegant than something I dream up, and I will undoubtedly use it to create the same thing for my DeWalt track saw.

Thanks in advance,

Rick P

[Cary Falk]

Rick,
Here was my solution for the Dewalt.
http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?201175-DeWalt-tracksaw-parallel-guides&highlight=
Cary

[Chris Parks]

Carey, that is very nice but I think it is overkill for the job. I would mark the sheet, place the tracks on the marks as best I could see and set one bar off the reference edge. Using that I would set the other using the first as a reference and nothing was measured beyond the first marks. If one of the marks is off a bit end to end after setting the bars then your marking out was off which is a fairly common occurrence or we would not be having this conversation.

[Rick Potter]

Thanks Cary,

I bookmarked that for future reference.

Rick P