Files

[Mike Hutchison]

Was in a local ACE Hardware and took a quick at the Nicholson files.
Noticed Made in Columbia and Brazil. First time I had seen that.
Didn't purchase any of them since I've picked up USA made files at yard sales
in recent months.

[Chris Griggs]

Hopefully, they can do a better job hardening them at their Columbia plant than their Brazil plant has been doing. But somehow I doubt QC was their main motivation for moving/adding production somewhere else.

[Bob Lang]

We can all thank the Apex Tool Group. At their website you can see a long list of companies that used to produce quality tools before globalization and value engineering did them in.

Bob Lang

[Andrew Gold]

I've recently found files to be my most regretted purchase, though for the reason touched on in the first post. I didn't even think to look at estate sales, instead went to the nice tool store in town and paid full retail for the nicholson files I'd read about... Now I don't know if I've been to an estate sale in months that didn't have a small pile of them for sale, often for $1 each... My purchases were well over a decade ago, so not worth getting too upset, but still!

Live and learn!

[Jeff Heath]

What a shame....the new Nicholson files are an embarrassment to the once great company name. All they do is screech and chatter.....

I'm almost out of my stock of NOS Nicholson saw files, and have moved on to Bahco.

Hopefully soon, someone in America will figure out that quality is worth paying for.

[Jim Koepke]

Andrew,

Welcome to the Creek. Your profile doesn't show your location. What part of this increasingly smaller world do you call home?

jtk

[maximillian arango]

I have family that live 5 minutes from where they are now being made in Cali Colombia. I do hope that my home land can make these a little better especially considering that the city where Nicholson's facility is, Cali, is very developed(some say better developed then some US cities).

[Andrew Gold]

Sorry about that, hadn't yet found that portion of the site... I'm in Portland, Or.

[Jim Koepke]

Sorry about that, hadn't yet found that portion of the site... I'm in Portland, Or.

Great, not far from me.

Are you going to the Lie-Nielsen tool event this Friday or Saturday?

I am going to try and make it on Friday. Nothing I need, just like to keep up on new developments.

jtk

[Tom Blank]

Great, not far from me.

Are you going to the Lie-Nielsen tool event this Friday or Saturday?

I am going to try and make it on Friday. Nothing I need, just like to keep up on new developments.

jtk

Yeah, right Jim. I'm going to a tool show, but I'm not buying anything.

I'm heading up to the one in Seattle, I plan on buying something so it's not a wasted drive. 8^)

[Chris Griggs]

I have family that live 5 minutes from where they are now being made in Cali Colombia. I do hope that my home land can make these a little better especially considering that the city where Nicholson's facility is, Cali, is very developed(some say better developed then some US cities).

Better developed than anywhere in New Jersey I'm sure...but that's a pretty low bar :p

(hahaha only kidding...kind of)


Seriously, probably has less to do with where they are being made and more to do with how much the company is trying to cut costs. It is very possible to make good products in Non US, Non North America, Not first world countries....but it costs money. The Woodriver planes made in China are good tools, but look where the price went to get them there. The Eclipse vises that replicate the old records are fantastic...I was shocked to see they are also made in China...but again...you pay the price of a good product costs for them. Making things outside of first world countries where the cost of living and wages are lower certainly does cuts costs and increases profits...but thats only one part of the equation...many companies can and do make very very good products in other countries (just as some US facilities manufacture garbage), but they (and us as consumers) need to invest in that quality.

[george wilson]

The Mexican Nicholsons cost just as much as the old USA ones. And,I believe it's COOPER Tool Group,not Apex. Am I wrong?

[Chris Griggs]

The Mexican Nicholsons cost just as much as the old USA ones. And,I believe it's COOPER Tool Group,not Apex. Am I wrong?

Yeah, I hate that. They're not manufacturing them cheap to give the buyer a good price...they are manufacturing them cheap to give their investors a good profit.

Which I don't like as a sole motivation but that is there prerogative I guess. The great thing about being a consumer is I get to choose what I don't buy. I can't stop companies from doing crap I don't like...but I can choose not to give them my money...the power of the consumer is, well, powerful.

[David Weaver]

The Mexican Nicholsons cost just as much as the old USA ones. And,I believe it's COOPER Tool Group,not Apex. Am I wrong?

Apex appears to be the name of the parent:

http://www.apextoolgroup.com/brands-faceting

Wiss, nicholson, plumb, lufkin.......

Their brands owned page is almost like a graveyard. They should show the brands on headstones.

[maximillian arango]

Better developed than anywhere in New Jersey I'm sure...but that's a pretty low bar :p

(hahaha only kidding...kind of)

I just read this while waiting for my class at my school(rutgers newark) and realized the funny thing here is that the bar can't be set any lower. lol


I was at my friends house yesterday night helping his dad go through stuff in his shop, his shop is a 3 story barn with the only room left unoccupied by tools is for swimming in between tools and attempting to do work(no its not a small shop he just has a large collection of tools/ hordes all the tools that he finds). I was lucky to come across a lot(Boxes and drawers full) of files and most of them are Murican Made Nicholson. I asked him if he still uses them and he said, "only when the planets align." That being said I asked him if I could buy some and he said he would give it a thought but I would have to take a lot off his hands if he was to sell them(he has enough I think to send a zombie horde of sawmillcreekers to swarm his lawn chanting "files, Fiiiiiillllessssssssss" while drooling from the mouth). I am going back this weekend to pick up some chisels and planes he decided to let go off but my main concern is how do I check if they are worth buying? They all looked like they were not rusted just covered in dust.

[David Weaver]

If they are files, take a piece of mild or medium temper steel (find a scrap there if you need to). Look at the teeth, put your fingers on them and see if they feel like they want to grip your skin when you grab them and if they feel decent, take a test filing off of the mild steel. If need be, find the best newest unused one and use that as your bar.

Files can be resharpened at boggs tool for about $3 per or something to that effect, and they'll probably be at least as good as new after, but I doubt boggs can work magic, so if teeth are completely dull and rounded over and damaged to some extent, I'd leave those behind.

Even though these are good new files, I also wouldn't go all out and pay a whole bunch for them (e.g., if they are mostly mill files, I wouldn't pay more than a buck or two per file, they won't otherwise be worth your time to sell, and they won't do great things for you sitting around if you aren't doing things that really consume files (building infills and other metal tools in the absence of mills, etc). Now, if you find piles of machinist pattern files or vintage jewelers files (barrette files, pillar or other swiss pattern files that have really crisp edges and good teeth), and especially taper saw files in 4-7" lengths, then you might want to get them, too. But don't overspend, because some files just don't have a used market that compares well to what their cost is new.

[george wilson]

O.K.,I have emailed them with the soft file problem. They CAN be reached. I hope others of you will PLEASE also email them. We might be able to get these Mexican files properly hardened if enough of us complain.

Glad to get the info that this,not Cooper tools(who formerly owned Nicholson) is the correct group. At least,they CAN be contacted.

[Winton Applegate]

Brazil
eeeeeyahhhhh
well
last I heard Starrett was farming out some of their tools to Brazil.
I immediately tracked down and ordered a USA made Starrett tool I have been planing to buy but hadn't got around to before it to got farmed out.
I have been criticized for saying it, and I am not a prejudiced person in the common sense of the term but it sounds like it here.
I still say when I want to hear really great cool music I look to brazil ( and for weird government and bad violence in the street). For great tools I look to the USA, Germany, Japan.
Brazil ? What ?
I hope they prove me wrong.

anyway time for baby pictures . . .
. . . my pride and joy . . . a metric, US made, Starrett Last Word Indicator set.
Isn't she adorable !? And so smart.

http://i801.photobucket.com/albums/yy298/noydb1/StillMadeInAmerica_zps28348375.jpg (http://s801.photobucket.com/user/noydb1/media/StillMadeInAmerica_zps28348375.jpg.html)

[vladimir nesterov]

Damn I'm sad I missed the tool Swap. Where do you find out about events like this for the Seattle area? This one wasn't very well advertized.

[george wilson]

Nardini lathes are made in Brazil. They WERE considered good,very decent quality lathes. Then,something happened,and they went downhill very fast. Something to do with management,I suppose,or politics.

Winton,do you want some sound advice about dial indicators? I did some accurate testing on them a while back,to prove a point in a discussion on a machining forum.

[Winton Applegate]

Mr. Wilson,
!
Hey there is still life in this forum.
Been looking kind of slow to day.

Winton,do you want some sound advice about dial indicators? I did some accurate testing on them a while back,to prove a point in a discussion on a machining forum.
To answer your question I will use a quote from a movie I saw some where and combine with it a line from a lecture from a down to earth "guru" (with a PHD who chucked it all to help people around the world one to one) to make up some BS with a lot of truth to it around the edges :
"I would LOVE some advice darling, I would adore your advice . . . but don't turn the lights up too much . . . I got to keep the differential going so you all know I'm holly.
ha, ha, ha,

[John Coloccia]

I'm pretty sure all of my old Crescent and Wiss tools are USA made. Please tell me that they haven't off shored all of that too, and if they did that the quality has survived better than the files. BTW, they own Weller too. A lot of electronics guys have abandoned Weller in favor of Hakko (Japanese) and JBC (Spanish). You can also get Pace (USA) and they make world class rework stations. I dumped Weller over 10 years ago when their tips literally started self destructing. It's almost like they were melting away...clearly getting corroded or dissolved either by the solder or the flux. Too bad.

Can these files be hardened, George, or do you think the metal itself is bad too? BTW, I'd love to hear about indicators as well. I just changed the top out on my CNC from MDF to TSlot, and I need to reset a bunch of stuff. Specifically, I could use an indicator I can mount in the spindle but don't want to spend and arm and a leg on it because I oh so rarely ever have a use for it.

[Mel Fulks]

The PLASTICUT files I posted on in the other thread are finger cutting sharp. Much sharper than any other new made files I've used. I think they only make mill files,but I haven't checked.

[Winton Applegate]

I know digital is a great and inexpensive way to go . . . and so easy to set zero for a +/- reading.
I bought the Last Word because ever since I saw one as a young student of metal stuff I fell in love with it's classic "Oh I don't know what".
I am pretty observant when if comes to measuring stuff and idiosyncrasies, e.g., angle of the little lever arm in relation to the work can make a difference in the dial movement, but looking forward to some links and info etc.


Weller
Yah I noticed that tip corrosion thing too. Weller soldering guns never really impressed me. I was always farting with my big one to keep BOTH head lights on. I finally got mine scoped.
I used to use their medium guns in a shop to solder the tips of fine control cables so they don't fray and so they could be pulled and replaced without snagging.

I finally went with their plastic and linoleum CUTTING tip (http://www.amazon.com/Weller-6110-Plastic-Cutting-8100/dp/B0001P172O/ref=sr_1_6?ie=UTF8&qid=1391974784&sr=8-6&keywords=Soldering+gun+plastic+cutting+tip)because they lasted for ever and put more heat into a cable faster because of the wide flat paddle like tip. Come to think about it I was always fighting the soldering IRON tips too because they went in a hole and had a set screw to hold it tight and that was for ever loose with the expansion and contraction. Better to thread the whole tip on to the iron.

[george wilson]

Well,I think the files can be hardened,but it isn't worth the trouble. I'd have to pack them in charcoal,in a sealed container and get them at least red hot for an hour. They would case harden. The teeth would have to be well protected or they would get their sharp little edges melted enough to be dull feeling.

As for the indicator,Winton. I have 2 Last Words. They are cute,and will probably do whatever you need.However they are quite an old design. I got into an argument with a guy on another forum,because Last Words are used in a 1940's book on machine rebuilding.m 1940's,mind you. I commented that they weren't the most sensitive indicators out there. He got all mad because he rates that book as "The Bible" of machine rebuilding. Well,technology marches on,God remains a constant,so calling it a Bible isn't very accurate.

We have a super sensitive diamond scale in our jewelry business. I took my Last Word,A Mitutoyo indicator,and a Starrett plunger back in new condition(all were like new). The Mit. took 1 gram to move the stylus. The Last Word took 4 grams,and the Starrett plunger back(not a very sensitive design) took about 3.5 grams.

The more easily a stylus can be moved,the better. A stylus can stick a thousandth or 2 if too much pressure is needed. In high precision work,the most sensitive is the most reliable.

But,if you are just using the indicator to see if your table saw blade is in line,it will be fine. Many years ago,I used a Last Word myself because I got 1 cheap,and money was more of an issue.

P.S.: I DO NOT USE DIGITAL BECAUSE THEY ONLY READ TO 1/2 THOU. Plus,they can be unreliable about the battery going dead. Starretts are bad for that. I can easily read to 1/4 thou. with the ordinary analog dial face.

[Winton Applegate]

using the indicator to see if your table saw blade is in line

ha, ha, ha,
At least you haven't lost your sense of humor !

(for those who don't get it this last word indicator is a very small range of movement type indicator and could even be bent or broken if one had a good wobble going).


DIGITAL BECAUSE THEY ONLY READ TO 1/2 THOU
technology marches on,God remains a constant



and metric is somewhere in between
(I made that up just now. )

. . . uhmmm
thas part of the reason I use metric. Some of the tools go to finer increments than the inch but in any case . . .
My Mitutoyo digital goes to .001 mm (.00005 inch) = 50 millionths of an inch. Breathing on it with a hot breath would probably make that difference.

but I know what you are saying as far as estimating between the dial indicator's graduations marks.

Looks like they may have worked out the battery thing on this one (http://www.amazon.com/Mitutoyo-543-502B-Digimatic-Indicator-Resolution/dp/B008NCCZOQ/ref=sr_1_4?ie=UTF8&qid=1391975978&sr=8-4&keywords=mitutoyo+indicator+metric).

[Winton Applegate]

The Last Word took 4 grams

Serious question :
Did you lube 'er up with the magic Starret Oil (http://www.amazon.com/Tool-Instrument-Oil-Fl-Oz/dp/B007IBEV4K/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1391977743&sr=8-1&keywords=starret+oil) ?
I found mine responded to some lube.

You know how the old planes and cars love attention.

PS: changing tips and angle what not was so difficult before I started lubing and fiddle / fettling my brand new Starrett that I would probably have broken or damaged the indicator just trying to set it up with a change of tip if I were a newbie and not used to MAKING TOOLS out of the blanks that the manufactures are putting out these days.

[george wilson]

Be VERY careful about oiling any indicators. Don't get any oil inside the mechanism! You can really screw them up. I have carefully put a teeny amount of oil on the plunger with a toothpick on the plunger back Starrett I have.

[Winton Applegate]

you are right I edited out the jewels comment because I didn't actually lube the jewels just the accessible parts.

plunger back Starrett

But I was reffering to the old one the Last Word.