JDS Multi-router dust collection

[Mark Davis PDX]

I'm pretty convinced that the Multi-router is one of the best joinery machines. Do you agree? If not, provide an alternate that is as repeatable, efficient, versatile?

The thing I dislike the most however is the lack of decent dust collection on the unit - this has me a bit nervous about buying the unit. I'm paranoid about wood dust.

Assuming you think the MR is the best available tool - how did you improve your dust collection?

Some ideas:

1. Start with the best DC-router available:

1a. Festool 2200 - the handles may be an issue w/mounting, the plunge aspect is also an issue I am told, but the clear shroud and integrated suction seems ideal. Perhaps even a 1400 would do the job -- the folks at JDS say that 2.25HP or so is just fine.

Anyone using Festool on a MR?

1b. Bosch 1617 + the DC kit - https://www.boschtools.com/Products/Tools/Pages/BoschProductDetail.aspx?pid=RA1173AT&WT.ac=WWT_RA1173AT



2. Rig something up around the unit that can attach to my 7.5HP Oneida DC. I can use anything that I can attach to an 8" Nordfab run.


Before someone posts - I have seen this
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nT_8TcWWGiA and http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5XPozvlRcq8 and http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9PkirhVbhuc

...and I think it's a bad idea..you suck all the dust into the motor and the motor vents...kludgy, but A for effort.


There has to be something really good...too many people, and shops, use this 25+ year old tool.


Alternatively, give me a better tool that is highly repeatable and efficient for 500 drawers w/dovetail (through on backs, sliding on fronts) and 50 M&T that has superior DC and I'll consider other options.

Thanks, -mark

[Loren Woirhaye]

Wirth Machine. Quieter induction motor. Like a pin router turned sideways.

Panto-router. Can be built in wood for $100 or bought from Japan for about $800 in metal.

With the money you save, buy a 3hp dust collector and run a 5" hose with a hood right up as close as possible. Build a plexiglass dust enclosure with holes for your arms if you want.

[Mike Heidrick]

Alternatively, give me a better tool that is highly repeatable and efficient for 500 drawers w/dovetail (through on backs, sliding on fronts) and 50 M&T that has superior DC and I'll consider other options.

Thanks, -mark

Any CNC router that uses a spindle.

[Thomas Hotchkin]

Mark
I like to let my router motors breath on there own. I pickup the dust with a 4" pvc duct flatten to about 1 1/2" clamped above cutter and feed the dust to my 3hp dust collector, works well. Tom

[Frank Martin]

Another option is Router Boss or Woodrat in that order.

[Mark Davis PDX]

Thanks for all the feedback folks.

I mentioned it above, but perhaps I was not clear: I have a Oneida 7.5HP DC w/260 sq ft of HEPA filter, 8" Nordfab run all over, etc. I have the DC. I just don't have a good way to get the duct with a machine like the Multi-router where many "hoods" would get in the way and dust flys in every direction. I think part 1 is to select a really good router with a separate DC, then surround the system with my 7.5HP DC.

Agree w/need to have the router breathe and to keep the dust away from the motors, which is why I don't like the video showing the PVC DC option for the multi-router.

Cost is not really my biggest concern.

Regarding other options:
1. I'm not convinced that a woodrat WR900 is as fast or versatile as a multi-router w/air clamps. etc.
2. Router Boss is interesting, but looks a bit more manual and perhaps less repeatable (not metal-tracer templates like the MR). I do like the DC on the design. Anyone have both a Router Boss and a Multi-router?
3. CNC is a interesting idea because you can contain the dust, in theory, extremely well...Which CNCs are you guys using for dovetail? I suspect sliding half-blind dovetail would be difficult in a CNC?
4. Wirth machine looks a lot like a MR, but without the templates & versatility?
5. Pantorouter looks again like a less capable MR.

Keep the feedback coming..

-mark

[Mike Heidrick]

On your cnc base you allow for vertical mounting of the stock in the front of your machine. Since the router is typically in front of the gantry it is offset from the front of the machine. I built my cnc but most any can do it. I am no expert on CNC DTs on it but Google it and you will get a wealth of info and ideas.

I get darn near 100% dust collection on my cnc router - I use a kentCNC dust shoe. The cnc knee mill on the other hand is going to take some work on keeping chips and coolant contained.

The cool tool list should also include Leigh FMT and the Woodtek Matchmaker.

[Loren Woirhaye]

Wirth machine takes templates made for the Matchmaker, which is a lighter version that uses a router instead of an induction motor and spindle. I believe the Matchmaker and Wirth machine have more travel side to side than the Multi-router, so wider boards can be dovetailed in a single setup.

I have a Woodrat and a Wirth machine. The Woodrat has a large width capacity. A blanket chest could be dovetailed on it.

In terms of dust collection, the Wirth machine peels off long shavings when cutting tenons. There isn't a lot of airborne dust when cutting tenons as the shavings are heavy enough to fall.

[Mark Davis PDX]

Mike-

Can you give me a bit more detail on your CNC setup? I will look into CNC in a bit more detail.
All-

Who makes the best woodworking CNC under 5k? under 10k? What CNC models are you guys using for dovetail, M&T, etc?

I'd like to see your photos/videos of your DC rigs w/the Multi-router...

Alternates update:
1. I'm not convinced that a woodrat WR900 is as fast or versatile as a multi-router w/air clamps. etc.
2. Router Boss is interesting, but looks a bit more manual and perhaps less repeatable (not metal-tracer templates like the MR). I do like the DC on the design. Anyone have both a Router Boss and a Multi-router?
3. CNC is a interesting idea because you can contain the dust, in theory, extremely well...Which CNCs are you guys using for dovetail? I suspect sliding half-blind dovetail would be difficult in a CNC?
4. Wirth machine looks a lot like a MR, but without the templates & versatility?
5. Pantorouter looks again like a less capable MR.
6. Leigh FMT, others - Ahh, yes, Leigh FMT...that looks like an OK option, especially with a Festool router...but probably not as FAST as a MR -- I need to start with 500 drawers -- each with 24 dowels holes -- that's another post.
7. Woodtek Matchmaker - another very similar machine to the MR with the same DC problems. Looks like router-types are even more specific here vs. MR -- at least I can use a Bosch w/DC in a MR.

-mark

[Frank Martin]

Mike-

Can you give me a bit more detail on your CNC setup? I will look into CNC in a bit more detail.
All-

Who makes the best woodworking CNC under 5k? under 10k? What CNC models are you guys using for dovetail, M&T, etc?

I'd like to see your photos/videos of your DC rigs w/the Multi-router...

Alternates update:
1. I'm not convinced that a woodrat WR900 is as fast or versatile as a multi-router w/air clamps. etc.
2. Router Boss is interesting, but looks a bit more manual and perhaps less repeatable (not metal-tracer templates like the MR). I do like the DC on the design. Anyone have both a Router Boss and a Multi-router?
3. CNC is a interesting idea because you can contain the dust, in theory, extremely well...Which CNCs are you guys using for dovetail? I suspect sliding half-blind dovetail would be difficult in a CNC?
4. Wirth machine looks a lot like a MR, but without the templates & versatility?
5. Pantorouter looks again like a less capable MR.
6. Leigh FMT, others - Ahh, yes, Leigh FMT...that looks like an OK option, especially with a Festool router...but probably not as FAST as a MR -- I need to start with 500 drawers -- each with 24 dowels holes -- that's another post.
7. Woodtek Matchmaker - another very similar machine to the MR with the same DC problems. Looks like router-types are even more specific here vs. MR -- at least I can use a Bosch w/DC in a MR.

-mark


I did not realize you were talking about mass production, i.e., 500 drawers. I am not an expert, but I don't think any of the options you listed above are the right options for such high volume.

[Loren Woirhaye]

You might burn up your router doing 500 drawers.

I'd consider band sawing that many dovetails. You can do them on a table saw too using a pair of custom ground blades. Sawing doesn't blow out the grain the way routing can.

[Mikhail Lermontov]

I was thinking about dust collection when I will buy JDS. My idea to make a modified router mounting plate in order to build a dust collection system exactly the same way as on CNC.
Of course it has to work in theory but easy to test the system with Dremel and some plywood version of it.

[Alan Bienlein]

Have you looked at this setup that was done on Matthais Wandel's panto router by this guy? http://woodgears.ca/pantorouter/reader/luke.html

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CkE8JCDOFsI#t=373

[Mark Davis PDX]

Interesting - a flexible plastic with slots...thanks Alan! Best idea yet...

Mikhail- having trouble visualizing...CNCs are usually self contained with no direct user input...you need to move the X,Y,Z axis handles on the MR.

Loren, Frank- yeah...a big first project.

Keep the ideas coming...

[Mike Heidrick]

Mike-

Can you give me a bit more detail on your CNC setup? I will look into CNC in a bit more detail.

-mark

What specifically do you want to know? DIY CNC and its info consumes HUGE HUGE forums.

$10K will buy you a Stinger Camaster or build you a super nice 4X4 sized machine. For under $5K will can buy you a probotix benchtop, shark pro, or a cheap 4X4 build and the software to get started. Have you called any cnc dealers to ask what they can offer you. The Camhead boys here can help you out I bet. You need to post in the CNC section of the creek.

Have you looked into a real dovetail machine and not a router outfitted jig?

Here are two of the machines I own. I have built 5 different CNC machines, two 3d printers, and now the retrofit of the my mill also in the video.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MVpJILx9pzg

[Mike Heidrick]

Youtube search CNC dovetail. Here is a good one showing the vertical process I was talking about. His is also a DIY machine.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SDa4dQnnEyg

[Mark Davis PDX]

Thanks everyone. Keep photos/video coming.

Mike: I am now on the camheads forums. I have to admit - CNC is something that is likely going to happen for me - it's when, not if...I'm pretty experienced w/SW. I'm just not sure they are ideal for dovetail - did watch some youtube stuff on them. Stinger I seems to have some new revisions...Stinger II seems pretty popular. Anyway, I'm less into 'carving' stuff into wood and more into automation :).

So far, for M&E, dovetail, I'm still learning toward:

1. Multi-router
2. Bosch or Festool router with integrated DC
3. http://woodgears.ca/pantorouter/reader/luke.html or http://www.kentcnc.net/nc/products/94-standard-dust-shoe.aspx for my big DC

More ideas??

-mark