Beginning with hand tools (mostly). Starting with a bench

[william nelson colorado]

Well, I've been lurking around here for long enough without introducing myself. I've been waiting until I had something to say. Well, i'm William and I am just getting started with hand tools. I mostly finished a Paul Sellers bench yesterday. I've got a couple of odds and ends to wrap up, but it is basically finished. Some of it is pretty ugly and rough, but some came out pretty good. I did use a miter saw and planer for some of the bench/apron parts, but I did all the joinery by hand. I know this is a hand tool forum and I hope I don't get flamed, but man is it difficult to build with hand tools without a bench. I thought I'd post a couple of pictures here for anybody else starting out. I had doubts of my ability to do this, but if I can do it so can you. Here are the pictures (ugly ones too)!

I haven't figured out the posting system yet to be able to post a caption with each picture, but you can kinda make out the progress. The hardest part was making the 1/2 mortices with a marginal quality (Woodriver) bench chisel. After I finished mine, I watched a video of someone using a real mortice chisel. That looked much more of a appropriate tool for the job! Now if it just wasn't so darned cold here (Colorado), I would be in the garage building something!

[Garrett Ellis]

The hardest part was making the 1/2 mortices with a marginal quality (Woodriver) bench chisel. After I finished mine, I watched a video of someone using a real mortice chisel. That looked much more of a appropriate tool for the job!

I've chopped 1/2" mortises with a mortise chisel. It's not very fun. I'd much rather drill and pare for anything that big. Or maybe I just don't have a big enough mallet.

Nice bench.

[Trent Morgan]

Very nice! I'll be starting mine soon, any tips?

[william nelson colorado]

Garrett, I started with a pretty average 16-ish oz mallet, but I wound up switching to a bike (Park Tools) non-marring mallet that weighs about twice as much. It went smoother after that. However, the blows were pretty hard, hard enough that my chisel hand was kinda tingly for a few minutes afterward.

Trent, if you follow his instructions, it is pretty straightforward. I have the book/dvd combo "Working Wood" and together they helped better than either one alone, however, the measurements the book gives for the bearer are different from the video. Basically the video uses a bearer at full width and notched to fit. The book shows one that has been not notched, but is 1" shorter instead. When you look at the pictures, it will make more sense. I you use only one of those resources there isn't anything to point out. But if you use both, just remember about this. Other than that, I'd say just take your time. Rest when you are getting tired and it all comes together nicely.

[Edward Mitton]

Hi, William, Welcome to the Creek. Nice starter bench. You will definitely learn a lot hanging around here. This forum is loaded with Galoots who can do 'bout anything with hand tools. Lot of collective knowledge here. Enjoy the ride!

[Will Boulware]

Park Tools

Uh oh. A bicyclist. Road or mountain? And since you're stubborn enough to hammer out mortises, do you by chance ride a singlespeed? :D

Welcome to the creek. Lots of good information here, and some truly great people to talk to! Bench looks good, btw. Keep us updated on your progress!

[Chris Griggs]

Looks like a winner to me. Having a good bench makes everything in the shop 10x easier. Congrats.

[william nelson colorado]

Edward, yes there are some great people here. I've seen some fantastic work displayed.

Will, Ha! I ride mountain. I have owned a SS in the past, but my knees didn't like it. And to be honest, I didn't find it much fun. I think gears are awesome. However, with all the cold and snow we've been having there hasn't been any biking for a long while. Might have to try out a snow bike if it keeps up. I am looking forward to a spring break (mountain bike) trip to Fruita with the family.

Chris, thanks. I just came across your 2.0 WB last night. I can't wait to see how it turns out.

[Jim Koepke]

William,

Welcome to the Creek. Don't get upset with me, I am not much of a football fan. (well sometimes I will root for the 49ers)

My bench build has been stalled by all the other things that keep needing attention. Though my current bench does most of what I need it to do.

This might help with posting images:

http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?167711-posting-photos-as-of-June-2011

When you upload photos/images if you insert inline they will go to where the software thinks the cursor is resting. It isn't always in the last place it was left.

281683

When you are composing a post:

the inserted images will have text enclosed in a bracket; [, and text ;ATTACH=CONFIG]281683[/ATTACH, followed by another bracket; ]

It is possible to insert text between the end bracket of one attachment and the begin bracket of the next.

There are a few ways to do this. I tend to use line returns after an image. Others prefer to have the text lead in and trail out of their images. The choice is up to the person posting.

Hope this helps.

jtk

[william nelson colorado]

Jim, thanks for the information. Yes it helps, greatly. I will use this on my next post with pictures.

[Christopher Charles]

William,

Welcome to the Creek and congrats on your first bench. I also noticed the Park tools reference and also have spent a good bit of time in Denver. Native, but have been gone for a good long while.

What's your next project?

C

[william nelson colorado]

Christopher, thanks. My next couple of projects are 'shop' focused. I'm going to build my skills on items where if I mess up and it comes out ugly, it isn't a big deal. I'm going to go through Paul Sellers' dvd course. It starts with making a spoon.

But for projects, I'm going to build Tom Fidgens' saw bench, a miter shooting board, working toward a tool chest. After those things, I'll start on the inside furniture. My short list includes a chest of drawers, bed, end tables, and bookshelves. Not necessarily in that order. I figure that list will keep me busy for at least a year. And I'm always open to new ideas and advice, so it may change.

[Prashun Patel]

That's a great bench! Nothing ugly about it. Looks stable and well-built. Practicing joinery on a workbench is a great thing. Your joints look great.

[william nelson colorado]

Prashun, thanks for the encouragement!

[Chris Griggs]

This might have already been said, but (if its not too difficult) you may want to inset that vise into those apron. That's a great style of bench Paul advocates but having the vise not flush with the front takes a lot of the value out of those big aprons. I'm not sure why Mr. Sellers does it that way.

If you can't do that or don't want to that's all good...its you bench, and either way it is a great bench. But personally I would want the vise flush.

Biking is great! I'm a bike commuter. I ride my fixie to work most days...though when its snowy and or cold, like now, I just walk (being only about 1 1/4 mile from work makes either a good option)

[Robert Hazelwood]

Nicely done! I really need to get back to work on mine.

[Jim Koepke]

That's a great style of bench Paul advocates but having the vise not flush with the front takes a lot of the value out of those big aprons. I'm not sure why Mr. Sellers does it that way.


I like having my vise flush with the face and the top of the bench. Though there are many styles of vises and many to sing the praises of each.

I do like to know the reasoning behind each type and mounting.

jtk

[Judson Green]

I believe Paul Sellers is not into bench dogs. Probably not hand jointing either, at least of longish boards.


281742
I lifted this image from his website. Having the vise proud of the apron is probably better for this kind of thing.

Not cup of tea but...

[william nelson colorado]

I'm not sure of the reasoning for mounting the vise this way either. Since this was my first try at this, I just stuck to the plan. It's tough building anything without a bench, so I wanted to finish this so I can move forward. I'll think about moving that vise. What I plan to do is use the bench for a while and learn what I like/dislike. Then build those features into my next bench. However, it is 1 degree outside (Fahrenheit) right now. I won't be doing anything in the garage for a couple of days. Should be a great weekend to go skiing.

[william nelson colorado]

And Chris, you must be tough. Fixies are for monsters!

[Brian Holcombe]

I like Paul's approach, but take it with a grain of salt since I have my own style as well. I see some japanese craftsmen using their foot as a hold down while working on the floor, don't plan to start doing that anytime soon.

everyone has their approach...

looks good William, I wish you luck. Moving from power tools to hand tools has been quite a process for me, but the result is that you can produce much finer work than can be done with power tools in my practical experience (not having power feeders and all that).

[Maurice Ungaro]

Fixies are great for winter training! I don't get out more than once or twice a week right now, but when I do, it's on my fixie. The thing to get over is the inability to coast. Try it once and you won't forget the lesson (never happened to me, though). I like it because it forces me to step my pace back in the winter, and it's the best thing for improving your spin. Plus, like working wood Neander style, not everyone does it.

[Judson Green]

I'm not sure of the reasoning for mounting the vise this way either. Since this was my first try at this, I just stuck to the plan. It's tough building anything without a bench, so I wanted to finish this so I can move forward. I'll think about moving that vise. What I plan to do is use the bench for a while and learn what I like/dislike. Then build those features into my next bench. However, it is 1 degree outside (Fahrenheit) right now. I won't be doing anything in the garage for a couple of days. Should be a great weekend to go skiing.

I'm not sure of Paul's reasoning either only thought it seemed like a possible explanation. Totally agree its hard to anything without a bench and you gotta start somewhere and it looks like your off to a good one. I'm right in the middle of redoing something (part of the top) on my bench cause I learned after a year of use of something I dislike. Sound plan to use your bench and then modify as needed or completely start over if needed.

[Judson Green]

I like Paul's approach, but take it with a grain of salt since I have my own style as well. I see some japanese craftsmen using their foot as a hold down while working on the floor, don't plan to start doing that anytime soon.

everyone has their approach...

looks good William, I wish you luck. Moving from power tools to hand tools has been quite a process for me, but the result is that you can produce much finer work than can be done with power tools in my practical experience (not having power feeders and all that).


Just thought his approach (vise proud of the apron) might have to do with not using dogs, as I understand he is not a bench dog advocate. I've learned quite a bit from him (video and blogs) and employ a few of his techniques, this not being one of them.

I too was a avid power user too and still own quite a few, though with exception to a band saw they receive little use anymore. I wish my experience was the same. I feel that my work was much better with power tools than without, I do feel like more of a woodworker though.

[Noah Wagener]

On those through tenons did you come from both sides? What does one do when you have mortises that intersect to control blowout? It is like a through mortise but you can not come from the other side. On my first i ended up stopping short (sorry to steal your move Frank Costanza) and slicing the last bit along the walls with a kitchen knife.



Will, Ha! I ride mountain. I have owned a SS in the past, but my knees didn't like it. And to be honest, I didn't find it much fun. I think gears are awesome. However, with all the cold and snow we've been having there hasn't been any biking for a long while. Might have to try out a snow bike if it keeps up. I am looking forward to a spring break (mountain bike) trip to Fruita with the family.

Mountain biking has gotten streets ahead of its roots. So has computer animation. This almost looks real:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AbF6ZZqVMyk

[Chris Griggs]

And Chris, you must be tough. Fixies are for monsters!

Ha! Well...I'm less than a mile and a half from work and its rare I ride it more the couple miles at a time...so no I'm not really tough. I also have a Cannondale hybrid type bike and I tend to ride than when my wife and I go for longer bikes rides. I really would love either a touring bike or cyclecross bike (really any good city street bike/beefy road bike with gears and drop bars), but I keep spending all my money one tools. I guess 2 bikes is enough. Sure is great to be able to just go grab my other bike when one gets a flat.

The fixie is definitely my favorite for my short ride to work and for little errands around down. Its so light an nimble, and just fun to ride...great for city streets.

[Jim Koepke]

My next couple of projects are 'shop' focused. I'm going to build my skills on items where if I mess up and it comes out ugly, it isn't a big deal.

My shop projects like this stand as reminders of some of the lessons learned along the way. Even the ugly ones are still loved.

jtk

[william nelson colorado]

Noah, on the through tenons, yes, I came from both sides to prevent blowout...after blowing one out doing it wrong. I just measured carefully and they met up in the middle just fine. There were 8 M&T joints to cut. The first one took like 2 1/2 hours. The 8th took about 20 min. I was using a pretty basic chisel. Just a cheap Woodriver bench chisel. Now I want a real mortise chisel!

I love watching the Rampage.

Chris, fixes are wicked light. I have peddled a couple around and it was a hoot. I still like me some of them brakes. I'm a mountain bike junkie. I started dirt jumping last year. After MTBing for so long, it took me a while to get over not having a front brake. Valmont Bike Park is only about 25 min away. I don't hit the big stuff, though (yet ;)).

Jim, thanks.

[Noah Wagener]

I was using a pretty basic chisel. Just a cheap Woodriver bench chisel. Now I want a real mortise chisel!


Since your bench is Paul Sellers designed you may have already seen this. He chops a mortise a lot faster with a bench chisel than that big, sexy mortise chisel.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q_NXq7_TILA

But he does blurb that the Ray Iles mortise chisels are the best chisels he has ever used.

[Brian Holcombe]

All in due time, I'm certainly not a master of it at this point, but i feel as if i've recently hit a point where hand tools are exceeding power tools in fine work. It's also eliminating an element of woodworking that was always making me uneasy and that is 'major injury by machine tool'. I seem to have traded it for 1000 small cuts by razor sharp hand tools, but it's still preferred.

I lean on power tools for many situations, but the fine work has been entirely taken over by hand tools and in doing so has helped to teach me how wood behaves and shown me the many nuances of the material that are glossed over by machines.

[Bruce Haugen]

Now if it just wasn't so darned cold here (Colorado), I would be in the garage building something!

Wimp!!

My wunderground shows Denver to be 41ºF. If it were that warm here in MN, I'd be working in the shop with no gloves! :D

[Graham Haydon]

William,

You are off to a fine start. The British style Joiners bench you are building is perhaps the easiest traditional bench to build without a bench. A couple of good sawing horses is all you need. I know 'cos I did it, even though I have access to our full compliment of industrial machines. If this is a first project you are demostrating a very good level of skill, kudos to you.
Morticing by hand is one of those jobs I really enjoy. I tried both the general purpose chunky chisels that PS uses (http://youtu.be/3Psq7EmDuAA) and a mortice chisel (http://youtu.be/bTKW65zcZII). As you can see in the vids, slightly quicker with a mortice chisel. For these mortices a 23oz mallet, was at least for me, a must. If I did not have that to hand I would of gone for the Estwing.
I cut my tenons (http://youtu.be/EtY7W6EoF5g) of the saw and found it quicker than trimming and chopping at them, even using a throw away cross cut hardpoint saw.
On the vice mounting, I think on this type of bench it matters not. If I had to fit a quick release I would mount it proud, too much work to make it flush. However my face vise is much easier to make flush and I do find the flush fit more useful more of the time. That said if you want support from you apron with a pround vice, screw a lump of wood on it and remove when done. If your vice is flush and you need it proud put a false jaw in it and remove when done. These British style joiners benches are not to be fussed over (IMO) and I feel happy to screw, nail or clamp anything to it.
All the best with the rest of the build, it's going to be a fine bench.

[william nelson colorado]

Noah, thanks, I had not seen that one. He sure did make it look easy! If mine went that smoothly, I never would have even considered a mortise chisel. I'll practice some more and see how I do. I did keep breaking tiny little chips right off the cutting edge of my (bevel edge) chisel. I assumed it was from leveraging it too much, but after his comments in the video I may have been wrong. Since I'm new at this it could also be my technique and/or sharpening skills.

Brian, I hope to get to where you are in your woodworking.

[Bruce Haugen]

Breaking tiny chips off the edge of your chisel might have to do with the sharpening angle. Try increasing the cutting edge to 30º or maybe even closer to 35º and see how the edge holds up.

[william nelson colorado]

Graham, thanks for the advice and encouragement. Yes, those were my very first hand cut M&T's. For the first 50 mallet blows or so, I was pretty nervous, but I settled down after that. After that, I really, really enjoyed the process. As far as benches go, I want to have something nice (balanced with functional) to work with and suited to my style (whatever that may be) but not so nice that I'd ever cringe for banging on it.

Bruce, thanks for the chisel sharpening advice. I'll try that. BTW, registering the "temperature" comment, if I remember correctly, the high was about 1 the day I typed that. ;-). Yes, today was 41+. It felt soooo good.

[Bruce Haugen]

BTW, registering the "temperature" comment, if I remember correctly, the high was about 1 the day I typed that. ;-). Yes, today was 41+. It felt soooo good.

In normal years we have temp swings and a real January thaw. This year the month of January will go down as either the coldest or second coldest in history, not so much because of the cold -- heck, if you're from MN and can't handle -20ºF you should seek living quarters elsewhere) but rather because there has been absolutely no respite, no relief. Most days haven't registered more than single digits. I honestly do work with bare hands at 30ºF or even colder, but this year I've gotten nothing done because of the unrelenting cold. The wholesale cost of natural gas increased 700% in one day last week. Oh well, it can't last forever. I wish you good luck with your bench.

BTW, I don't have a Sellers bench, mine being made a la Tage Frid about 30 years ago, but I simply would not choose to work without bench dogs.

[Winton Applegate]

Fixies are for monsters!
I been lurking.
Roady here from way back in the seventies. I would ride fixed in the spring to build leg speed but that is it. Fact, one spring,when I was a kid, I would ride every day fifteen miles of farm land on a fixy to work on a solar earth burmed house. Part of the project was an adobe "kiln room" . The home owner (and builder) was a college prof. who was and taught production pottery.
anyway fifteen miles out there, fifteen mile back on a fixed and sandwiched in between a full day of shlepping adobe block, those suckers are damp and solid, no holes like concrete block.
Pick one up and press it over head to the guy laying it and what do we see on the bottom ready to drop on to my face ? . . .
. . . why a scorpion of course.
Who is writing this script I started asking my self.

. . . anyway . . . take it from an old bike dude. Any body who rides a fixed, in the city, with all the stop and go, year round isn't a monster they are just someone trying really, really hard to ruin their knees as fast as possible.

Spinning on the highway and doing surges for leg speed is one thing. Riding on a vello drome is one other thing but around town ? Year in and year out ?
Nah dude, nah.

But it isn't like I have an OPINION about urban fixy riders or anything like that.
. . . carry on . . .