Trying to figure out pine grading.

[Joe Hillmann]

I am trying to understand what the local sawmill means when they describe what the grades of pine lumber mean.

They have clear for $2 something per boardfoot. I understand what that is.

They have #1 shop for $1.30 per boardfoot which has black knots that may fall out.

And they have furniture grade for $0.80 per boardfoot which has red knots that are solid.

The problem I am having is I don't understand why furniture grade is cheaper than #1 shop even though it sounds like a better quality wood. Can anyone explain how that works out?

The best thing would be for me to go to the mill and look at each pile and decide which one will work for my use. But I can not. At the moment they have clear on hand, they have a stack of furniture grade in the kiln that will be done on Thursday and won't have any #1 shop for at least two weeks. I don't want to buy the much more expensive clear if one of the lower grades will do the job, but I also want to get started on the project as soon as possible.

[Steve Rozmiarek]

I have no idea, just guessing it may have something to do with red knots oozing pitch, black knots won't?

[Sam Murdoch]

I'm only guessing but it is likely that the #1 shop grade is available in wider stock - say 1 x 12s whereas the furniture grade might be more in the 1x6 or less? Like I say, just a guess. We have quite a few pine mills in Maine and they all seem to use different grading for the same quality product. Have to go look or know how your lumber mill/yard grades. There is very definitely great and usable pine available far less expensive than "clear" especially if you have the luxury of the time to pick through the stock.

[Mark Bolton]

Furniture grade is a little counter intuitive because you would think it would be the highest quality but its actually the grade of material used in the carcass of furniture.

Often different yards use different portions of the grading system or even their own fuzzy sort of standard though they will have to meet the standards of the grading agency they are under depending on region. As a general rule, just as you have found, price usually gives you a clear indicator and reading the actual grading rules doesnt make any of us feel any more comfortable. They tend to call out things like % of usable material per face, maximum allowable area for knots and defect, and so on.

I deal with this a bit in that I dont have room to stock tens of thousands of feet of lumber. So like you, I could buy a pack of #1 common red oak for instance. In that unit I would get perhaps 10-20% clear material which I could sort out myself for better work. The rest would have to be cut up to remove defect. Thats a lot of work on my part so unfortunately unless the project can incorporate defect I tend to opt for the higher grades just so I know every board I grab out of the pile will be usable. In the end its much cheaper.

For drawer stock or stuff that will have a lot of glue-ups we will often buy the #1 or #2 common grades because we will be cutting them up anyway and chopping out the defect isnt so bad. And even then we get a good bit of usable material out of scraps for small stuff.

In my opinion, if your piece is not able to incorporate defect, and your not wanting to order 20-30 percent more than you need, your better off heading as high up the scale as you can afford.

This doesnt specifically address your yards grades but it gives an idea

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=5&cad=rja&ved=0CGIQFjAE&url=http%3A%2F%2Fclasses.mst.edu%2Fciveng120%2Fles sons%2Fwood%2Fgrades_of_lumber%2Findex.html&ei=OzzxUq6WJIWbygGSq4HQDQ&usg=AFQjCNH6qa-OUhzmuRD3-46qmuBkgX-lyA&sig2=ynMFTnZLnCyNIAgsZ1UvNw&bvm=bv.60444564,d.aWc

[Joe Hillmann]

Marks explanation of what furniture grade is clears it up. When someone says something is furniture grade I would expect it to be the highest quality.

[Peter Quinn]

Don't feel bad, the grade rule books weren't written to be clear. What kind of pine are you considering and whose grading rules are the local mill applying? There is eastern white, southern yellow, western....etc. In any even I'm sure the grading rules make sense from the perspective of the sawyer more so than the wood worker, thats who writes the grading rules. Ever read the grading rules for black walnut? I digress......if we are discussing eastern white pine, it comes down to usable lengths. A common grade will produce longer usable lengths and wider usable widths between major defective knots. Furniture grade material makes shorts for the most part, there is a high waste factor. There may be sound red knots as part of the usable face, but in between those is some nasty junk you will have to cut out. So they have not bumped there heads at the mill, you are getting what you pay for, pay less, get less. I bought some "industrial grade" common some years ago dirt cheap, was sold as scaffolding planks, close to 10/4 sold as 8/4. I was able to cut perfect clear window blanks out of that material, vertical grain, but none of my parts was longer than 4' or wider than 4", most less than 3" width. At $.68/bf, very good for me versus C&Better clear grade at $4.75/BF...ouch.


Trying to understand what you are getting remotely is difficult at least. Nothing like a trip to the mill to clarify your understanding.........ROAD TRIP!

[Andy Pratt]

The mill is not using standard grading terms, except the "clear", so it is anyone's guess what they mean. When I am milling pine the only boards I set aside for furniture/cabinets are boards that you would call "FAS" (or very near to it) if they were hardwood. Barring the occasional panel where a knot is decorative, the knots are a real problem to work around due to their weakness and often large size. Unless you want the knots for the style of your project, (or it is just a utility project) you will probably save money buying the clear, because you will need so much less of it to get the job done correctly. Knots are ok if the boards are staying wide (shelving etc) but if you will be ripping to smaller widths for doors/face frames just buy the clear stuff.