Cost to lease a laser?

[Michael Arruda]

Hello all,

We currently have a Redsail X700 laser. We bought it used and have tried using it, but it's just not working out. I'm accustomed to the Epilog driver and capabilities of a Helix 75w. This unit has been difficult in comparison. I will not use it for commercial pursuits, as it was purchased for, as I do not trust it's reliability. I've had problems with the laser tube, with the mirrors, with random errors... basically, what is to be expected from a chinese laser. I cannot trust this to not fail me on a job. Another issue that is major is the lack of 3d engraving. I used to use this expensively with the Epilog I had access to for checkering and other 3d contouring.

i would like to get an Epilog, probably a Helix or mini 45w. We do not have the cash flow currently to purchase one, so I'm looking at options for leasing. Anyone have experience leasing a laser, or any machine? Was your experience positive or negative? I've contacted Epilog on options but have not heard back yet. What kind of down and monthly did you have? Was it a full lease, 10% buyout, or how was it structured?

Thank you,
Michael

[greg lindsey]

contact this company, they are connected to Epilog , I have spoken to them before

http://www.epiloglaser.com/downloads/whitepapers/whitepaper_leasing_equipment.pdf

maybe this will help :)

[Dan Hintz]

Michael,

Have you considered a Trotec? I'm working on a review of the Speedy 300 here:
http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?213254-Trotec-Speedy-300-Review-A-Twisted-Engineer-s-Perspective
The next update to the review should be out this weekend (hope I didn't jinx myself saying that).

[Ross Moshinsky]

Lease or lease to buy deals are typically not great. Getting a loan typically puts you in a much better financial position.

I'm sure if you offload the Redsail laser, you'll get close to a down payment for reasonably priced laser.

[Mike Lassiter]

One difference between buying and leasing is your tax situation. If you lease you get to count the lease payments as a expense were as buying you have to set it up on depreciation.

[Jason Hilton]

I have explored leasing and equipment lease-to-buy extensively. Unfortunately the rates are really high, bordering on credit card interest rates. If you can you're more likely to get a good rate from a business loan, tax considerations notwithstanding.

[Braden Todd]

I had to use the lease option to pursue my dream while cash flow was tight, after doing it I couldn't believe I didn't do it sooner! I leased both of my epilogs thru Geneva capital with a $1 buyout at the end. I was very worried initially that the payments were going to crush me, but I was able to negotiate a deal that I paid my initial payment of the first and last payment and some other small fees and then I had no payments for the summer. This really helped me to get to know the machine and line up even more work to pay off the laser.

The rates can be high, but you can also negotiate terms which I strongly suggest trying. If you'd like more information feel free to pm me.

All in all I am very glad I used this route!

Good luck!

[Robert Tepper]

Avoid a lease when possible. With a lease you have to make every payment as agreed.
With a purchase through a loan, you can make extra payments each month and get the loan paid off early.
Banks are currently loaning money at around 5% to those with good credit.
This is the route I went and it worked well for me.

Good luck in whatever you are able to achieve.

Robert

[Kev Williams]

With the exception of the Triumph, the 3200 and one of the 3400's which I paid cash for, every machine in my signature was originally leased. Back in the 60's and 70's when we were buying New Hermes pantographs and Gorton Pantomills fairly regularly, come tax time my dad would pull his hair out trying to figure out all the depreciation and property tax values. Our first lease was for our first computerized engraver, and for 5 years all the old man had to do was add up the lease payments as deductions. We've leased ever since. I have 2 machines on lease right now. Their payments are pretty much equal to what I'd pay for a typical loan plus property tax, which I have to pay anyway. For many years we leased a new company truck every 3 years. And yes, you can negotiate. I always got at least as good a deal on payments as I would have a loan + property tax. I remember after bringing back our 3rd truck, I just wanted to buy it back. Salesman made a good point: "So, in the 9 years you've been leasing, how many sets of tires or brakes have you had to pay for? How much did you spend in repair bills?" Answer, zero! Truck is always under warrantee (never needed it), and never had it long enough to wear anything out. And best of all, a new truck every 3 years, and no having to worry about seilling the old one! Yeah, it's a little different with machinery, but not a whole lot. Leasing does work for some of us! :)

[Bert Kemp]

Kev Williams say "With the exception of the Triumph, the 3200 and one of the 3400's which I paid cash for, every machine in my signature was originally leased."
So Kev how long was the lease and what was the interest on the "Partridge in a pear tree"???:rolleyes:

[Dan Hintz]

So Kev how long was the lease and what was the interest on the "Partridge in a pear tree"???:rolleyes:

Five golden rings, obviously... :p

[Keith Upton]

I just leased my Epilog through Geneva Capital and I'm happy with what I got. I'm not in the engraving business, so I think I'm a little different than most out there. I have an online game accessory store. Some of my products I was having laser cut and engraved by a company in Florida (I'm in Colorado). After a couple of years of this, I looked at all the money I was sending them just for the laser time and I could have nearly paid cash for a laser of my own. However, I did not have that kind of extra cash laying around (it all gets tied up in product inventory) a loan or a lease where my two options. For me, the lease was much easier to do and deal with over the long run. I have the option to buy out the laser at any time (and if it's before the end of the lease agreement, I actually get a discount, at the end it's a 10% buy out that they will split into payments with interest if I need to). This is my first lease of any kind, so I've learned some things and if I ever do it again, I'll try negotiating the terms a little more. The one thing I either did not pick up on or they did not tell me was that I would be paying property taxes to them on top of the actual lease payment. That added some to my monthly payment, but I'm still happy.

[Glen Monaghan]

"So, in the 9 years you've been leasing, how many sets of tires or brakes have you had to pay for? How much did you spend in repair bills?" Answer, zero! Truck is always under warrantee (never needed it), and never had it long enough to wear anything out.

As I see it, that means you were continually paying full monthly payments for 9 years, even though you never wore anything out and never had to have anything fixed or repaired, whereas you could have paid it off in 3 or 4 years and paid only for replacements or repairs during the next 5 or 6 years. My '94 was paid off in 3 years and I am still driving it. Individual repairs can be expensive, but it's a great vehicle and total cost for repairs, new tires, wiper blades, oil changes, etc., has been far, far less than the monthly payments would have been all that time. Had it been a poorer quality vehicle, the numbers might have worked out differently, but I still prefer to buy free and clear over renting/leasing. Such is life.

[Kev Williams]

Believe it or not, we even leased our original Casmate- back in 1991 it was $10 large for a 486 computer (which I still have), a dongle and a box of 5-1/4" floppys. Try to get loan for that. Most of the machines we leased were in the $15 to $20k price range, those we leased for 5 years. Glen--we're talking a tax deductible company vehicle here, not a personal vehicle. I shouldn't upgrade at least SOME of my equipment? And as you noted, you've have good luck with your vehicle. But a couple of $1200 "routine" repairs that are common these days would skew the numbers a bit! ;)

And FWIW my last leased truck is my current 2002 Ford F-250 4x4 supercab. When it came time to turn it in in 2006 (4 year lease, payments were $384-- that's cheap even for 2002), buyout was $13,000. Based on the sticker price, payments plus buyout added up to less than $3000 in "interest", and that's including the property tax. Plus, the truck blue booked at $5000 more than residual, which I wasn't about to give the dealer, so I paid it off... and speaking of good luck, I just replaced the original battery in the thing last summer, the fuel pump the summer before that, the brake pads a couple of months ago, and I bought a set of tires and wheels for it in '09. Aside from gas and oil that's the only money I've ever had to spend on the thing! So I DO understand both sides of this issue! :)

[Glen Monaghan]

Understood Kev, but my '94 is a tax deductible company vehicle as well. You should upgrade whatever equipment you want or need to upgrade, but the scotch in me abhors constantly paying for "latest and greatest" and "appearance" just for the sake of the latest and keeping up appearances. If I think it's something I'm going to use a lot, I generally prefer to own it and work it to death long after it's paid off. I'm the kind of guy who likes to squeeze his money ;^) but I have learned the hard way that, even though it may hurt my feelings to write the check or give the plastic number over for a top-of-line or near-top bit of kit, I will usually have a well-working, highly capable tool working for me long after I forgot how much it dented my finances, and I'm not struggling to work around limitations due to cut rate pricing, nor am I paying to replace failed lower quality gear.