Large Dado Stack Recommedations

[George Bregar]

Guys:

I've traded out my Unisaw for an Qliver 88-DX. The Oliver came with enough 16" Woodworker II to justify my auction price, but I'm looking for a 12" stack dado set with 1" arbor. I know of Forrest but am having trouble finding anyone else that has a bigger set. Thanks for your time.

George

[Charles Wiggins]

Guys:

I've traded out my Unisaw for an Qliver 88-DX. The Oliver came with enough 16" Woodworker II to justify my auction price, but I'm looking for a 12" stack dado set with 1" arbor. I know of Forrest but am having trouble finding anyone else that has a bigger set. Thanks for your time.

George

Forgive my ignorance, but does the arbor not raise high enough to use an 8" or 10" stack?

[George Bregar]

I don't think so. Published depth of cut with a 16" blade is 3-1/2", so a 10" would be 1/2". Not enough. The "D" in "DX mean Direct drive motor...the beauty is the smoothness, the downside is you lose some capacity. It can take an 18" blade if needed.

281555

[Mark Bolton]

Freud and Amana have 12" stacks with 1"

[George Bregar]

I figured they did but couldn't find any...at least not at retailers. But now I get a hit at Amazon for Freud...guess the key is to spell out "inch" :p

[Peter Quinn]

http://www.amazon.com/Freud-SD512-12-Inch-Super-Dado/dp/B00AHVTO5Y

[Ryan Mooney]

Carbide processors has a couple of different ones as well: http://www.carbideprocessors.com/saw-blades/dado-sets-and-blades/

That's a heck of a saw.

[Mark Bolton]

If youve got the HP why not say screw the dado all together and just stack thick and think kerf blades with shims... HAH.. Im drooling over that extension. Man.. what a beast.

[peter gagliardi]

Woodworkers Tool Works in Wisconsin can make anything you need.

[George Bregar]

Woodworkers Tool Works in Wisconsin can make anything you need. They show only a 10" stack, and it's over $400. I'll call and see what they'll do, I know they give hobbyists a break.

[George Bregar]

If youve got the HP why not say screw the dado all together and just stack thick and think kerf blades with shims... HAH.. Im drooling over that extension. Man.. what a beast. I won it at auction for $1,000. Came with 5 - 16" WWII's and some other 12" and 16" blades. It will cross cut 48". 3,000 pounds. Awesome saw.

[Mark Bolton]

I won it at auction for $1,000. Came with 5 - 16" WWII's and some other 12" and 16" blades. It will cross cut 48". 3,000 pounds. Awesome saw.

Super nice score. Gosh.. really nice. The blades alone..

[David Kumm]

George. I've been looking too for the Whitney. In six months I've seen just a few over 10" and all need to be rebored which isn't the end of the world. Ridge and Systematic used to make larger ones and I think FS tool. There were two 14" sets in Wausau last summer but I didn't pull the trigger quick enough. Dave

[jack forsberg]

FS Tool is the place for large dado stacks. You can order as many chipers as you like too. I have 2 14" stacks from them 2" wide and a 16" stack for the 18" Wadkin PK slider. if the 88DX has a good power plant than no use going small on the stack as the price is the same. Now i am not sure but i thought there was a problem with the blade flask not closing on the 88 with a dado but that could be the 260 i am thinking of. you may what to check that?

any way just for fun here is the 8" stack next to the 16" stack for the Wadkin slider.

http://i927.photobucket.com/albums/ad111/tool613/wadkin/16dado002_zpsebda12b4.jpg (http://s927.photobucket.com/user/tool613/media/wadkin/16dado002_zpsebda12b4.jpg.html)

[David Kumm]

Jack, do you prefer the two tooth chippers to four or is that just what they make? The outside blades have lots of teeth. Any tearout? Dave

[jack forsberg]

Jack, do you prefer the two tooth chippers to four or is that just what they make? The outside blades have lots of teeth. Any tearout? Dave

what i like are only 1/8" chiper and one at a 1/16". Don't like chippers wider than that yet the FS is the only one lets you pick. at theses rim speeds there are no chipping Dave. Lots of teeth for cross cut but if you look there lots of room for chips extraction . Slow feed rate for dado work right?

[David Kumm]

I see they make 1/4, 1/8, and 1/16, no 3/32. Is the plate such that you can shim enough to get to odd sizes? I've used Forrest up to 10" and I think they go to 12". Dave

[Rich Enders]

George,

I have a Forrest 10 inch set with a 1 inch bore, and 4 tooth chippers to go about 7/8 inch wide.

I am not sure of the depth of cut on your Oliver, but on my MM combo an 8 inch Forrest set cuts to 1.25 inches. That would imply that this 10 inch Forrest would cut to about 2.25 inch depth.

Does that make sense?

[jack forsberg]

I see they make 1/4, 1/8, and 1/16, no 3/32. Is the plate such that you can shim enough to get to odd sizes? I've used Forrest up to 10" and I think they go to 12". Dave

I don't shim dado's i rabbit its mate Dave. The work i do with the dado is not carcase to sheet size its mostly rabbit cuts and cross cuts.

[George Bregar]

FS Tool is the place for large dado stacks. You can order as many chipers as you like too. I have 2 14" stacks from them 2" wide and a 16" stack for the 18" Wadkin PK slider. if the 88DX has a good power plant than no use going small on the stack as the price is the same. Now i am not sure but i thought there was a problem with the blade flask not closing on the 88 with a dado but that could be the 260 i am thinking of. you may what to check that? It has a 5HP motor, but I'm not sure what a "blade flask" is. Is it the shroud that surrounds the plade for dust containment/extraction? Here is a shot of that on the 88-DX:
281592

The Oliver literature says the 88-DX "lip on the rolling table can be removed to dado up to 3-1/2" wide. I have the dado arbor also.
281593

[jack forsberg]

The 88 come so many ways George. So your slider does not open? looks like some tin work for the flask?

Personally, I find the oliver model 88 to be superior to the Oliver coveted 260. The 88 came in many different forms beginning with the 88-D. Then you get a sliding table and some other aerospace features which gives you the model 88-DM. Here you have a crank on the left to move the sliding table left by 4 inches to install a dado blade and to do work on the blade arbor. The rolling table is very simple in design but rolls very smoothy. Then you have the monster 88s. The oliver 88-DX and 88-DY both had sliding tables that weigh close to 1000 pounds each supported by ball bearing rollers riding cinched tracks in an undercarriaige that bolted to the left side of the 88 body. This saw can straight line rip a 4x8 sheet of plywood like notbody's business. In fact, you
can stack plywood up to 4.5 inches deep and precision cut multiple sheets in one pass.


I really find this saw much to large for my needs and I like more simple saws and a smaller saws but still 18" saws. Personally, I like the 18" wadkin PK(blade fully retracts and does not spoil the riving knife). Its super cute and just the right size for my home workshop. But wadkin did not sell many PKs in the US/ Canada and the ones that made it there are coveted by those who have them. They are very unusual and very much liked. So they are rare and tend to be expense for what they are.

Lastly, I spend my free time restoring old woodworking machines. I have reached a point in terms of space and time where I wish to concentrate on certain machines. The PK is one of these collectable machines just as the 88 D is.








It has a 5HP motor, but I'm not sure what a "blade flask" is. Is it the shroud that surrounds the plade for dust containment/extraction? Here is a shot of that on the 88-DX:
281592

The Oliver literature says the 88-DX "lip on the rolling table can be removed to dado up to 3-1/2" wide. I have the dado arbor also.
281593

[Rick Alexander]

Holy moly that's a big ole saw. Looks to be in great shape too.

[George Bregar]

The 88 come so many ways George. So your slider does not open? looks like some tin work for the flask? No, there is a lip that requires removal (red arrows in previous pic), you can see it better here:

281621


Personally, I find the oliver model 88 to be superior to the Oliver coveted 260. The 88 came in many different forms beginning with the 88-D. Then you get a sliding table and some other aerospace features which gives you the model 88-DM. Here you have a crank on the left to move the sliding table left by 4 inches to install a dado blade and to do work on the blade arbor. The rolling table is very simple in design but rolls very smoothy. Then you have the monster 88s. The oliver 88-DX and 88-DY both had sliding tables that weigh close to 1000 pounds each supported by ball bearing rollers riding cinched tracks in an undercarriaige that bolted to the left side of the 88 body. This saw can straight line rip a 4x8 sheet of plywood like notbody's business. In fact, you
can stack plywood up to 4.5 inches deep and precision cut multiple sheets in one pass. I agree, I had a very complete 260-D and sold it when I purchased the 88-DX. The double arbor and slider/quadrant are cool on the 260-D, but in the end the 88-DX is much more versatile day to day because of the ;arge slider. Being able to x-cut large glues or ply is something that is very difficult with a traditional shop built sled.


I really find this saw much to large for my needs and I like more simple saws and a smaller saws but still 18" saws. Personally, I like the 18" wadkin PK(blade fully retracts and does not spoil the riving knife). Its super cute and just the right size for my home workshop. But wadkin did not sell many PKs in the US/ Canada and the ones that made it there are coveted by those who have them. They are very unusual and very much liked. So they are rare and tend to be expense for what they are.

Lastly, I spend my free time restoring old woodworking machines. I have reached a point in terms of space and time where I wish to concentrate on certain machines. The PK is one of these collectable machines just as the 88 D is. I've seen your stuff Jack...and the PK's are just beautiful machines. Heck, all Wadkins are.

[Charles Wiggins]

Published depth of cut with a 16" blade is 3-1/2"

Well now, that's just stupid - bad design. My Jet 10" will do 3 1/8". With a 16" blade I'd expect somewhere around a 10" possible (though not advisable) depth of cut. Sorry. I know this doesn't help you. I'm just surprised.

I have not found anything beyond what others have already posted.

[David Kumm]

Direct drive were not a bad design. Depth of cut was the tradeoff for large bearings spread wide apart and no radial stress due to multiple belts and pulleys. Hard to explain until you run one. Dave

[George Bregar]

Well now, that's just stupid - bad design. My Jet 10" will do 3 1/8". With a 16" blade I'd expect somewhere around a 10" possible (though not advisable) depth of cut. Sorry. I know this doesn't help you. I'm just surprised.

I have not found anything beyond what others have already posted. Charles, you couldn't be more wrong. Your Jet has a belted arbor (Red), the Oliver has a direct drive motor (Blue). See how that limits depth of cut below?

281622

It's neither stupid nor a bad design because maximum depth of cut with the smallest blade is not the target. Capacities are however, and the Oliver exceeds your Jet in depth of cut, 4-3/4" with an 18" blade, 3-1/2" with a 16" blade. The direct drive design provides a higher quality of cut because of reduced vibration, much better than your Jet, or any saw with an arbor driven with a belt. It also provides much faster feed rate because those teeth on a 16" are coming faster. The Oliver is designed for high quality, and high production. A comparable saw today costs around $40,000.

[George Bregar]

Direct drive were not a bad design. Depth of cut was the tradeoff for large bearings spread wide apart and no radial stress due to multiple belts and pulleys. Hard to explain until you run one. Dave And all that allows a larger blade so you still have DOC capacity.

[jack forsberg]

Well now, that's just stupid - bad design. My Jet 10" will do 3 1/8". With a 16" blade I'd expect somewhere around a 10" possible (though not advisable) depth of cut. Sorry. I know this doesn't help you. I'm just surprised.

I have not found anything beyond what others have already posted.


Charles
I thick what you fail to see is that your jet saw is belt drive and the Oliver is direct motor dive just like a RAS is. the blade arbor is the motor spindle.The blade has to clear the motor before it can cut and so that's the reason for loss in the DOC. This is why theses saws have large blades. With large blades come larger bearing and there is plenty of room for bigger bearings in these DD saws. there is no belt slippage or small 6000 series bearings to fail so the drive is way smother with out vibration. I ware/dull a 10" blade out in a month in the shop were as the 18" blade takes about a year. The cut from these is way cleaner too because the rim speed of the tooth is at about 18000 SFPM or about 2 time as fast as your belted 10" saw. you have to have used on to really see how clean an 18" blades cut through thick hard wood.

[Mark Bolton]

Charles
I thick what you fail to see is that your jet saw is belt drive and the Oliver is direct motor dive just like a RAS is. the blade arbor is the motor spindle.The blade has to clear the motor before it can cut and so that's the reason for loss in the DOC. This is why theses saws have large blades. With large blades come larger bearing and there is plenty of room for bigger bearings in these DD saws. there is no belt slippage or small 6000 series bearings to fail so the drive is way smother with out vibration. I ware/dull a 10" blade out in a month in the shop were as the 18" blade takes about a year. The cut from these is way cleaner too because the rim speed of the tooth is at about 18000 SFPM or about 2 time as fast as your belted 10" saw. you have to have used on to really see how clean an 18" blades cut through thick hard wood.

My understanding was always another major advantage of the larger blades is reduced/eliminating tearout due to the much shallower exit angle as the tooth leaves the work?

This had always been my understanding when looking at large euro saws which run 14"-16" blades, and larger, yet are still belt driven arbors. I know there are cases where depth of cut is an issue especially in shops which use saws, as George mentioned, stacking multiple sheets and gang cutting. But where that blade would shine to me is cutting at normal depths or in sheet goods and having little to no tearout.

I had looked at some big older Martin's at one point and several shop owners told me with large blades, and of course sharp, they never had a need for scoring.

[Michael W. Clark]

George, what is the rip capacity between the blade and fence? Maybe its not important with the sliding table as you could use stops and put the keeper on the left side of the blade?

Cool looking saw! You could probably put my G1023 on it and saw it in half!

[George Bregar]

George, what is the rip capacity between the blade and fence? Maybe its not important with the sliding table as you could use stops and put the keeper on the left side of the blade?

Cool looking saw! You could probably put my G1023 on it and saw it in half! 50" rip. and yeah, I used to have a 50" LT Unisaw. This thing Dwarfs it.

[jack forsberg]

ya that's true of the saws with rise and fall but many of the rip saws with very large blade did not have this feature. Having the blade high held the wood to the table so it did no slap and kick back. large crown guards with adjustable nose piece is what keep you hands away from the blades.

these are still in use in the UK and most colleges still train on theses saws.

281642
the Wadkin 30" does look scary but the 36" power feed saw is just way to cool for lovers of large blade saws. no rise or fall on these saws with fixed arbors.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IWeFhpJ1rJI

now if you don't think that has the DOC for ya how about the sagar rope feed saw with a 48" blade.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U9HMLx6Iiv8







My understanding was always another major advantage of the larger blades is reduced/eliminating tearout due to the much shallower exit angle as the tooth leaves the work?

This had always been my understanding when looking at large euro saws which run 14"-16" blades, and larger, yet are still belt driven arbors. I know there are cases where depth of cut is an issue especially in shops which use saws, as George mentioned, stacking multiple sheets and gang cutting. But where that blade would shine to me is cutting at normal depths or in sheet goods and having little to no tearout.

I had looked at some big older Martin's at one point and several shop owners told me with large blades, and of course sharp, they never had a need for scoring.

[Jery Madigan]

If you for the Amana set, Tools Today has worked well for me. Looks like the 12" st is $306 with free shipping. You can also buy individual chippers for this set.

http://www.toolstoday.com/p-5257-complete-dado-sets-amana-tool.aspx

You can also buy individual chippers for this set.

http://www.toolstoday.com/p-5263-dado-chippers-amana-tool.aspx

But, of course, the astute shopper gets another 10% off:

http://www.retailmenot.com/view/toolstoday.com


(http://www.retailmenot.com/view/toolstoday.com)

[Mark Bolton]

now if you don't think that has the DOC for ya how about the sagar rope feed saw with a 48" blade.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U9HMLx6Iiv8

You'll get some puckers out of the safety wonks with that one.. :rolleyes:

[Michael W. Clark]

You'll get some puckers out of the safety wonks with that one.. :rolleyes:

I thought Curly might go for a ride at any minute!

[Charles Wiggins]

Charles, you couldn't be more wrong. Your Jet has a belted arbor (Red), the Oliver has a direct drive motor (Blue). See how that limits depth of cut below?

281622

It's neither stupid nor a bad design because maximum depth of cut with the smallest blade is not the target. Capacities are however, and the Oliver exceeds your Jet in depth of cut, 4-3/4" with an 18" blade, 3-1/2" with a 16" blade. The direct drive design provides a higher quality of cut because of reduced vibration, much better than your Jet, or any saw with an arbor driven with a belt. It also provides much faster feed rate because those teeth on a 16" are coming faster. The Oliver is designed for high quality, and high production. A comparable saw today costs around $40,000.

Thanks for the education! I should have known that there was a reason behind all that, but having never been around large machines I just didn't see the sense in it.

[Jason White]

Forrest can probably make you a custom one.


Guys:

I've traded out my Unisaw for an Qliver 88-DX. The Oliver came with enough 16" Woodworker II to justify my auction price, but I'm looking for a 12" stack dado set with 1" arbor. I know of Forrest but am having trouble finding anyone else that has a bigger set. Thanks for your time.

George

[Mark Wooden]

+1 on Woodworkers Tool Works, call and ask to speak to Bobby. He's the owner and very knowledgable about industrial machinery like your Oliver. He can make an informed recommendation on your tooling needs, won't sell you what you don't need. FWIW, I recently bought a new stack set from him and I got more than I expected, definitely worth the money.

[Domenico Perrella]

I'm traumatized from watching that Sagar video. I may have nightmares. When he finished his first full cut I was squirming and I almost couldn't watch. Maybe it's just perspective, but his hand looked way to close to that obviously man-eating saw blade.

[Dylan Wall]

Ahhhh!!!!! So that’s how you get that type of finish on a cut! Cool.