Making small square holes

[Daniel Rode]

It seems like everything I try to do by hand recently is a first time for me.

For a pair of end tables I'm making, I need to attach 4 1/2" x 1/2" uprights between 2 rails along with a 1/2" x 2" in the center. The are not structural components but I don't want them spinning or coming loose. I'm going to use a 1/4" mortise & tenon 1/2" deep for the 2" center upright. I'm pretty new at cutting mortises by hand and I'm using standard chisels to the the work. I'm confident I can cut the center joint, but the 1/4" x 1/4" x 1/2" hole for the small ones is trickier.

I've thought about drilling 1/4" hole and trying to square the corners with a chisel. I only have 1/8" shoulders, so they have to be precise and I need to make 32 of them. I do have a 1/8" chisel, if that helps but I figured a clean cut with a 1/4" would be the way to go.

Any tips or suggestions?

[Mike Henderson]

I'm not sure I understand exactly what you're trying to do, but to get the hole square, Lee Valley has some square punches that may be of value to you. See here (http://www.leevalley.com/US/wood/page.aspx?cat=1,43456&p=65380).

http://www.leevalley.com/US/images/item/Woodworking/Chisels/50k5903s7.jpg

Mike

[Judson Green]

I'd drill them then make them square with your ¼"

[Daniel Rode]

I'm installing uprights on a set of mission style end tables. 1/2" x 1/2" x 11" uprights / pickets with, probably attacked with 1/4" x 1/4" x 1/2" deep M&T joints.

Those are interesting. The look a lot like the bits from a mortising machine and work a bit like them as well. $30 each is steep for me, tho.


I'm not sure I understand exactly what you're trying to do, but to get the hole square, Lee Valley has some square punches that may be of value to you. See here (http://www.leevalley.com/US/wood/page.aspx?cat=1,43456&p=65380).
Mike

[David Weaver]

It seems like everything I try to do by hand recently is a first time for me.

For a pair of end tables I'm making, I need to attach 4 1/2" x 1/2" uprights between 2 rails along with a 1/2" x 2" in the center. The are not structural components but I don't want them spinning or coming loose. I'm going to use a 1/4" mortise & tenon 1/2" deep for the 2" center upright. I'm pretty new at cutting mortises by hand and I'm using standard chisels to the the work. I'm confident I can cut the center joint, but the 1/4" x 1/4" x 1/2" hole for the small ones is trickier.

I've thought about drilling 1/4" hole and trying to square the corners with a chisel. I only have 1/8" shoulders, so they have to be precise and I need to make 32 of them. I do have a 1/8" chisel, if that helps but I figured a clean cut with a 1/4" would be the way to go.

Any tips or suggestions?

Drill, then 1/8" and then 1/4" chisel (something thin, esp if the 1/8" chisel isn't thin in height). 32 of them is a bear. Hopefully they don't have to look perfect. I've never done holes of that length, just saw nut mortises and they never come out looking like a perfect machine cut joint. Spoace for chisel/waste and tearing of fibers is always a problem.

The chisels that mike is showing look useful if for no other reason than to just get a nice clearly defined top side of the hole and shear the fibers cleanly.

[David Weaver]

Thinking about those saw nut mortises, I'd definitely buy one of the gadgets that Mike H shows and try a test hole with a couple of different sized bits.

[Daniel Rode]

Thanks. I have a 1/8" shoulder all around, so it doesn't have to look perfect but I don't have much room for error.


Drill, then 1/8" and then 1/4" chisel (something thin, esp if the 1/8" chisel isn't thin in height). 32 of them is a bear. Hopefully they don't have to look perfect. I've never done holes of that length, just saw nut mortises and they never come out looking like a perfect machine cut joint. Spoace for chisel/waste and tearing of fibers is always a problem.

The chisels that mike is showing look useful if for no other reason than to just get a nice clearly defined top side of the hole and shear the fibers cleanly.

[Brian Thornock]

What I would do is mark out the mortise with a knife, drill the 1/4" hole in the center, then use the 1/4" chisel in the remainder of the knife line, just a light tap on the mallet, and then get rid of that waste carefully. This will establish a nice looking shoulder. then you can use the 1/4" with harder mallet blows to remove the rest of the waste. Should be easy to stay within the 1/8" shoulder on the tenon.

[David Weaver]

Thanks. I have a 1/8" shoulder all around, so it doesn't have to look perfect but I don't have much room for error.

OK, now I gather what the shoulder is like. I'd still buy the square chisel and use it for that. it might come in handy in the future, too. Otherwise, 32 of them will take a long time, and something nasty is going to happen on a couple.

[Sam Stephens]

personally i'd experiment w/ your method a bit on similar wood to be certain you like it. I've done a similar tasks (not 32 of them) w/ square holes for pegs that will show, but I found it easier to just chop them w/ the chisel than pre-drilling. With a full size hole (1/4"), there wasn't enough meat to register the chisel accurately and it took longer to cleanup the walls then just chopping them out directly. The knife line can also chip and drift into wood waste depending on the grain orientation. If you drill pilot holes, I'd probably try as David suggested and make them smaller ~1/8", but then I'm not sure they'd serve any real purpose. Or, since you're doing 32 of them, that definitely justifies a tool purchase!

[Stephen Musial]

If it's not structural, any reason you can't just drill the end of the upright and the rail and use a dowel? Glued in place, it will never spin or come loose and will be a whole lot easier and faster than cutting 32 tenons and 32 mortises.

[lowell holmes]

I have the 1/4" and 1/2" punches. They work great. You have to buy a proper sized drill bit for each size.

[Jessica Pierce-LaRose]

If they show, 32 holes is right around the point I'd look to make friends with somebody who has a mortiser . . .

[Daniel Rode]

I know 32 holes, plus 8 longer mortises for the center pickets, seems like a lot but it's not that bad. I'm under no deadline, so I can take my time. I've squared up a number of routed mortises and those are pretty simple if there's a knife wall to register the chisel. It's only 1 or 2 whacks to get down to 1/2". There's not much resistance because there is so little wood to chop.

If they show, 32 holes is right around the point I'd look to make friends with somebody who has a mortiser . . .

I considered using dowels but it felt wrong for this application and the amount of work is not much different.

[Daniel Rode]

I really like the punches and I can see using them, I'm just put off my the cost.

I have the 1/4" and 1/2" punches. They work great. You have to buy a proper sized drill bit for each size.

[David Weaver]

Can hollow chisel mortiser chisels be taken apart (i.e., can you take out the drill bit?). You might be able to get a cheap one if they can, take the drill bit out and sharpen it.

[Daniel Rode]

Yes, they can be taken apart but I don't have one. I sold my mortising machine a few years ago.
Can hollow chisel mortiser chisels be taken apart (i.e., can you take out the drill bit?). You might be able to get a cheap one if they can, take the drill bit out and sharpen it.

[Bruce Haugen]

Daniel,
I'd get the punches that Mike showed. I've done at least that many at a time for several sets of mission-style night stands that had a zillion square spindles. I don't ever want to do that again without at least a square punch. Actually, if I ever do those again I'm going to say the heck with it and get a hollow chisel mortiser. It's just too much of a pain in the butt.

[Brian Thornock]

Actually, in his season 2 book, Tommy Mac made his own punch out of square steel stock. If you are just looking to establish the corners to a short depth, mild steel would work, though you will need to touch it up now and again. 1/4" square stock dirt cheap from lots of places. Would I do it? Probably not, but it could be done and would be cheap.

[Jim Belair]

Yes, they can be taken apart but I don't have one. I sold my mortising machine a few years ago.

You can get just get one bit then. Half the cost of the square chisel and they should be up to the task for this one project. http://www.leevalley.com/en/wood/page.aspx?p=41702&cat=1,180,42240,53317,41702

281549

[Hilton Ralphs]

You can get just get one bit then. Half the cost of the square chisel and they should be up to the task for this one project


The advantage of this is that you get a free drill bit and the mortising part acts as a guide to make sure you don't wander about so they're pretty accurate for this application. The sharpening cones are useful for other stuff too.

[Jack Curtis]

I chop very small holes for kumiko in shoji, and a lot of them; so why not use a 1/4" mortising chisel.

[Maurice Ungaro]

Dan,
Go ahead and give it a shot on some scrap using the drill and chisel clean up method. I did this on a Mission bench with 28 such mortises. It really did not take that long to chop them square. Plus, you're not going all the way through- just enough for the tenon. I think I even played with chopping some using a mortise chisel, but I got more consistent results with drilling first.

[Daniel Rode]

Here's the results of drilling a 1/4" hole and squaring the edges with a 1/4" chisel. It only took 2 or 3 gentle taps on each side to get to the bottom. Carefully laying out the lines with a knife took some time but I'd want to do that no matter what. The chisel work was about 30 seconds per hole. I chopped the 2 sides and then used a 1/8" chisel to clear the debris. The knife lines really made it easy to register the chisel properly.

I just need to be slow and methodical real pieces and I think they'll turn out fine.

281768
Here's the joints open. The test pickets and rail are full size except for the length.

281769
Assembled they came out straight, square and snug with just a tiny bit of fitting :)

[Maurice Ungaro]

Good job, Dan!