Good purchase?

[James Jericho]

I'm looking at purchasing a 16" crescent jointer with Babbitt bearings, older model, and a powermatic 180 planer for $2750 delivered to my shop. The jointer is a 3 phase 3hp with a static converter on it. The planer has a three phase motor on it that I will be swapping out when it arrives. I feel like this is a great deal but am new to the older machines.

[Jim Matthews]

Three things -

Get a cardboard cutout the size of the machines, and make certain you can fit them into your shop.
(I did the same prior to deciding against a combination machine.)

Make certain you can demo the machines at the sale site.
If you want to make a project of restoring machines, that's one thing - if you want to make furniture that's shop time lost.

Do you have three phase power in your shop?
It's not a trivial retrofit - even with a converter.

http://www.grainger.com/category/phase-converters/power-supplies/electrical/ecatalog/N-8dt

[Andrew Fleck]

Those would have to be some totally restored pristine machines for me to consider that kind of money. You can get old machinery at auction sites much cheaper than that or even craigslist depending on where you are.

[Ethan Melad]

I agree with Andrew. I got a 16" American at auction and an 18" Taiwanese planer for less than 2/3 of that price... Also not so sure about 16" jointer having enough power with a 3hp motor, especially with a static converter.

[Jeff Duncan]

Condition is everything! If those machines are in great shape and ready to work then that could be a great deal! I paid that much for my 16" jointer, though it is a somewhat newer Italian model. There's always going to be the chance at finding a better deal if you have the patience and wait around. But remember that most auctions your buying without being able to run a machine. And take it from someone who has a shop full of used equipment….fixing old machines can get costly real fast! It's great to get a machine for next to nothing….until you have to buy bearings and replace parts and…..well you get the idea. Point being don't compare buying something from a private seller, or a machine dealer, to auction prices, they're very different situations. I'd much rather buy from a private seller as your going to have a much better chance at knowing exactly what your getting, and likely finding some history on the machine as well.

good luck,
JeffD

[David Kumm]

What Jeff said. Delivery is worth 500-1000 and if the planer is good you are getting the jointer for very little. The 180 equivalent to a 10K new planer and although they are reasonable used there is nothing cheap to fix. I'd spend for a RPC rather than swap out motors. That never ends up as cheap as you think and as soon as you spend that money another really cheap three phase will come up. Deep six the static and get a rotary. there are cheap ways to do that as well. Learn about maintaining babbit and how to judge those bearings. I don't know much about them. Keep in mind that people seem more willing to spend 2750 on mediocre new than heavy old. Good luck. Dave

[James Jericho]

Thanks all for the responses. I am sure I could a better deal somewhere and I am still searching! Although the machines are big, they will fit in the shop. The 180 will have a custom mobile base built for it so that's not much of a concern.

Aside from finding another used tool it's hard for me to feel good about spending 2-3k on a grizzly planer, or one alike. The only benefit to me would be the warranty but most are only 1 year anyways. Not worth it in my eyes.

I started my search in that direction, looking for a 20" helical head but found myself in the 2-4k price range. With the deal I am being offered I feel like I could sell the jointer to recoup some cash if needed and then end up with a great deal on the planer. Both machines are in working condition, not perfect but ready to go.

[Rich Riddle]

James, it's helpful if you put a location in your profile. That way people can better answer if they know of any machinery close to you.

[James Jericho]

Sorry, new to this. Charleston, SC

[Loren Woirhaye]

I concur that at that price, the stuff should be cherry. If you're not a pro you don't need that kind of capacity, though it is fun to have. I recently acquired a 16" jointer at a silly price and I'm rather pleased, but I wouldn't have paid $1000 for it because I really don't need the machine to do my work, and I do build work for clients. In terms of a real heavy planer like that, again, do you really need it? Do you have the space to work such heavy machinery?

Old machines are great fun and if you do work for money, knowing how to buy them and get them running well can be a way to leverage yourself into greater shop capacity without the payments or cash outlay new machines of similar capacity and robustness require.

[James Jericho]

I am a furniture maker and also sell a good amount of wood for a living. I take in a lot of wide boards and would like to be able to dimension material for clients. I currently I have 8" jointer and 15" planer, which is very limiting. Does anyone have any experience with the newer machines? I have not committed yet to this deal and am open to other ideas.

[Loren Woirhaye]

Well, can you get the jointer only?

That planer may be difficult to get rid of if it has problems and fixing them may not be worth it. Also, there's sanding and a wide belt or stroke sander trump a few extra inches in planer capacity for pro work, imo. I can see an 8" jointer as a limitation in professional work for the builder who has regular access to wider boards.

[Jeff Duncan]

James, I've posted a few times on this before, but I bought a new 20" import planer probably a notch above Grizzly several years ago. It was a $3500 machine with the spiral head, 5 hp Baldor motor, variable feed all shiny and new. Hooked it up and ran it for about a year though was never thrilled with it's performance, (backstory, I used to work in a much larger shop with much larger equipment….so a bit spoiled). Anyway a local cabinetmaker retired and offered me his 40 something year old well used SCM 20" planer for $1000. Now I'm looking at a machine that I'm still paying for while having to make this decision. I ended up buying the older planer, swapping them out and several years later I can't imagine why I hesitated, it's one of the best tools in my shop:D

New import stuff is fine for a lot of guys. Even pro shops are using it and get by. But it really can't touch the older industrial equipment in terms of performance, and unless you've used that stuff you would never know. I think it's great that guys get good deals on equipment, however anyone expecting to buy a 16" jointer in good working condition for less than $1000 is an optimist of epic proportion. It can and does happen, just like you can get lucky and find all sorts of good deals. I would just never recommend someone set out with that in mind. I get feedback like that from time to time and it's usually b/c guys buying machinery for hobby use are in a totally different mindset than those who buy for business. When your using your equipment to make a living you just come at it from a different point of view.

As for newer machines, besides the planer I also bought a Powermatic 27 shaper, 24" dual drum sander, line boring machine, and several dust collectors. I still have one of the dust collectors, though it's been modified from it's original design. The others have all been replaced by better and older equipment. I did get a lot of good use out of the machines, however if I knew then what I know now I could have saved myself a lot of machine swapping;)

good luck,
Jeffd

[James Jericho]

Thanks Jeff! I wanted to update everyone. I ended up not making that purchase and found a 12" Newman jointer for $800. I'm still looking for the planer and will keep you posted..

[Loren Woirhaye]

To build a bit on what Jeff wrote and how I think: there's this dance you have to do if you sell work... what to specialize in and what to set up to do with the greatest reasonable efficiency. If you do panels and doors, 2000lb planers and big jointers are great but they don't sand at all. If you look at the time invested in actually working glued up boards to flat and parallel and at a stain grade I suspect the best investment is an 8" jointer, modest planer and a wide belt sander. I love ridiculously heavy old industrial machinery myself but I do balance my acquisitive tendencies against what can help me execute more profitable work in the relatively near future, the footprint and restoration/electrical requirements.

[george newbury]

Sorry, new to this. Charleston, SC
Put that in your profile under additional information, location.