Euro Hinge Questions

[Bill Grumbine]

Greetings all

This is going to sound like a rank beginner post, but since I am just starting out using these things, that is exactly what I am here.

I bought some Euro cup hinges to use on a cabinet. Actually, I bought a bunch of the same hinge from a local commercial supplier. There were no instructions of any sort, and when I asked about that, the lady told me "we just sort of assume that everyone who buys these things already knows how to install them". Well either I wasn't born with that knowledge like the rest of "them", or I must have skipped that day in school, because I don't "just know". What I do know is that there are all sorts of adjustments possible with these hinges, and all sorts of specs that vary from manufacturer to manufacturer.

So, what I am looking for is a tutorial, a book, or whatever on how to set up to install these things. I am sure that I could puzzle it out, but I would much rather read something intelligent. I even have a handy dandy Fisch drilling jig that I bought about five years ago or so just for the day when this would happen. As with anything else European, the directions stink even worse than Chinese directions. If anyone here could point me in the right direction, I would appreciate it.

Thanks.

Bill

[Steve Cox]

Bill, just to make sure the info is correct, what is the brand of hinges you are using? They are all just a little different but are really quite easy to install.

[Dave Falkenstein]

Bill - Here's a site that I use for Euro hinge information. It is specific to Blum, but might just be helpful for your hinges.

http://www.cabinetparts.com/tech_data/blum/blum_index.html

[Lee DeRaud]

Path of least resistance, start here: http://www.rockler.com/faq/choosing_concealed_hinge.cfm
Couple clicks in will have links for installation jigs etc. These are for Blum hinges, but the principles are the same for all of them. I didn't drill all the way down the site, but most of their jigs and related stuff has PDF files with technical data.

[Per Swenson]

Hi Bill,

We have been using blums for awhile.

Everybody else pretty much steered you in the right direction.

My only comment, I use to drill the holes on the drill press.

That sir was a pain.

We bought the lee valley hinge boring jig.

Could not be happier. Just a beautiful tool.

Fast easy and precise.

http://www.leevalley.com/images/item/woodworking/drilling/05j0701s1.jpgI hope this helps.


Per

[Jim Becker]

Bill, I've only used them once, but what made it easy was creating a simple drilling jig to properly position the 35mm hole for the cup to sit in on the door. That's a critical positioning element. The rest of it depends on the type of hinge...full overlay, partial overlay, inset and whether or not face frames or Euro construction is used. It may be a good idea to pick up a set of the hinges from a major manufacturer that provides instructions in the bag, or see if you can download instructions from Rockler for a similar hinge. (They often have such things online)

[Christian Aufreiter]

Hi Bill,

some useful information can be found on the Lee Valley Website (http://www.leevalley.com/hardware/page.aspx?c=3&p=40420&cat=3,41241,41255) -> Instructions.
This website (http://32mm.dalrun.com/) provides lots of information on 32 mm cabinet making.
If you drill shelf pin holes, I'd recommend to get Euro screws for mounting the bases.

I'm not familiar with the Lee Valley jig Per mentioned. I usually use a drill press with an outfeed table but would consider getting this 35 mm drill bit (http://festool.safeshopper.com/441/313.htm?485) for routers with 8 mm collets.

Hope this helps,

Christian

[Ken Garlock]

Hi Bill. All the info above is good information.

I bought my Blum hinges from Rockler, and yes the instructions can be written on the head of a pin with a cold chisel :mad: As said above, the proper drilling of the cup hole is critical. I bought a 35 mm bit at HD, of all places. It is in the hinge, handle, etc. department It came with a plastic template for positioning the drill bit, worked just fine. Fortunately, the cup is mounted on the door and hence you can set up your drill press to cut the cups. I hope you have 3/4" doors as the cup is 1/2" deep.

Print off this page (http://www.cabinetparts2.com/tech_data/blum/blumcatp15cliptop170spec.pdf) and this one (http://www.cabinetparts2.com/tech_data/blum/adjust_hinge/clip170_adj.pdf) and you will be in tall clover. :)

[Bill Grumbine]

Thanks for the info everyone. I have a nice jig for drilling, but the instructions are, shall we say, cryptic. I bought it several years ago when I had money in my pocket and was standing in front of it. It has the name of Fisch on it. I called Fisch, and they told me to call Rockler, which did not make me too happy, but I called, only to discover that Rockler sells a similar jig made by Hettich. I told the Rockler people what the Fisch people said, and then called Fisch back to holler at the person responsible. Then the story changed that they knew it was a Hettich jig. I told the poor lady there who was caught in the middle that I did not think it was good business practice to blow off customers and send them to people who did not even sell their product. I was very polite with her since she was only relaying what she had been told to say. In less than five minutes I got a call from a salesman who has no more idea how to use this thing than I do. He was helpful though, in that he provided me with a number for Mepla, whose hinges I am using.

So now I have a call in to Mepla, waiting to see if anyone there knows how to measure for these things. The frustrating thing is, I was hoping to avoid a huge waste of time and effort, and I am involved in just that right now. For good measure I called C.H. Briggs, which is where I bought the hinges in the first place, and I am going to fire up some people there too. In retrospect I should have just returned the hinges when I discovered that they had no instructions with them, but I had several other places to go and did not have time to go back to the warehouse and fill out papers and stand around even more than I already had by then. I guess I am paying for it now.

I guess I could just drill a bunch of holes in scrap, and it looks like that is going to be my sole remedy for this, but that is not how it should be.

Bill

[Jim Dannels]

I guess I could just drill a bunch of holes in scrap, and it looks like that is going to be my sole remedy for this, but that is not how it should be.

Bill

I did exactly that when I first used them, once I got the location right I made a template of hardboard to locate them and blissfully went on with the project ignorant of the fact I had no clue what I was doing! It was also my first atempt at frame/Panel doors.
All 6 doors on that cabinet, work fine 6 yrs later, so I must have got it right?

[Von Bickley]

Bill,
If you run a profile on your door fronts, be sure it's not going to cut into your 35 mm cup hole. ;)

[Nick Mitchell]

This is very simple, no need to get frustrated . Go here http://www.woodweb.com/knowledge_base_images/ms/Process32_041204.pdf

download it and it will answer all your questions. This is for Blum. If you bought Grass then go here http://www.hafeleonline.com/canada/product/g.html

If you got Salice or Hettich or some other brand then the idea is the same.

Work in metric or you'll be making more phonecalls

[Sam Blasco]

Hinge plates for all manufacturers are always 37mm back from the "frameless" frame edge. Face frames use a different hinge plate that is usually self indexing. Cup spacing can vary greatly depending on manufacturer, whether you are using 110, 125, 135, 165 or 170 degree door openings, whether they are full or half overlays or inset doors. But generally if you want to figure it out for yourself, a good starting point is 3/32" from the edge of the door for most general purpose applications. Test it and see what your overlay is and adjust the cup distance closer to the edge for less initial overlay and further from the edge for more overlay. Also, if you are used to backcutting your door edge profiles, this needs to be greatly reduced or just left square with this type of hinge system for best results and fewer cursing sessions while trying to get your set-up just right.

[Brad Schmid]

Bill,

Here's some tech data on the different Mepla hinges of you haven't found it yet:
http://www.cabinetparts.com/tech_data/mepla/
Hope it helps.
Cheers,
Brad

[Ellen Benkin]

I have to commend you for your persistance, but I agree that you should have returned them and purchased hinges that came with instructions. These kind of hinges are supposed to simplify life, not make it more complicated. Good luck with your project.

[Jerry Golick]

Hi Bill,

I have been using euro-hinges only for the last 2 years with very good results. I got my hinges from a place called Cabinet Mart ( Cabinet Mart (http://www.cabinetmart.com/)) who offer free downloads of templates, measurements, and instructions for mounting.

Another resource, if you are going to be building more than 1 cabinet is Danny Proulx's excellent book called "Building Frameless Kitchen Cabinets" (http://www.cabinetmaking.com/frameless.htm) which provides great info on how to layout, measure, and assemble euro-cabs. In addition, he gives you some great easy ways to make useful jigs. Sadly, Danny passed away last year, but I believe all his books will stand the test of time).

Beside the 37mm setback for the hinge cup, you also have to consider the mounting plate. Depending on the system you are using (euro-32, etc) this can either be done when you mount the hinge, or simply screwed into the system holes. BTW - most euro-hinges are designed to use euro-type screws, but you can get away with standard screws if need be.

Finally, I would consider the use of the deluxe clip-on mounting plates rather than the slide-ons. They are easier to mount, and adjust. It is really quite amazing how easily you can get two doors aligned using these plates.

[Bill Grumbine]

Thanks again everyone for the responses. Sam, you were very close with the 3/32"thing, as I finally discovered that this particular hinge needs 2.5 mm from the edge of the door. It took me less than 30 minutes to drill, install, and adjust four hinges in two doors once I got that little bit of info. It also helped getting the jig set right for the hinge configuration.

Nick, anything is easy - to those who know how to do it. I can stand on the wrong side of my lathe out of position, holding a gouge backward in one hand and make a cut that most other people struggle for hours, months, or even years to figure out. Of course, I only do that during teaching sessions, showing someone how the edge meets the wood. It is easy, but only because I know how to do it. To those who don't, it is mysterious and frustrating when the needed information is not available. All I really needed was the information on how to set my jig up for this particular hinge. The directions stink,and the people at Fisch blew me off completely, something I am not going to forget. The people at the distributor where I bought the hinges actually did have installation information, even though I went through two levels of people - personally, face to face, only to be told they did not. But now I have the info, and I have installed the hinges, and for me it is now easy - until I meet the next challenge.

Bill