Workbench 2.0

[Chris Griggs]

My current workbench has served me well for 3 years. I've found slanted leg vise and deep aprons of English/Nicholson design to be well suited for my 95-99% handtool approach to woodworking, and the recycled old growth pine from which it's largely built has been rock solid. The knockdown design enabled me to keep it with me though 3 different moves in two different states, and the relatively short 5 1/2 foot length allowed me to fit in a very limited workshop space. It has been the perfect bench for me in this time.

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But there comes a time in every woodworkers life when s/he must admit to his/herself that their beloved workhorse of a bench is too small (even if its really big) and that it is time to move on to something bigger.

My wife and I purchased our first home this past summer, and thus, for the first time since I started woodworking I had a long term space to call my workshop and more space than I'd ever had before. A perfect excuse to build a new 8 ft+ bench.

Enter fellow Creeker and local craftsman Paul Incognito. You may remember him from his recent classified ad for a "Workbench kit in DE"

I became friends with Paul about a year and a half ago when I first returned to Philadelphia. Paul is one heck of a nice guy, who just so happened to have an excess of large slabs of old reclaimed douglas fir. He has already built two benches for himself from this wonderful material, and made most of a 3rd bench that he sold as a "kit" here on SMC. He graciously offered the remainder of the fir to me for my new workbench as well as his skill, and the use of his large milling machines.

At long last yesterday we began the build. What a fun and productive day we had. Paul's jointer and planer are exquisite pieces of vintage machinery, and Paul himself is an absolute machine when using them. I must confess he did the most the work, but I did get the chance to run stuff through these giants and it was quite the experience. In a mere 6 hours (which included a fair bit of goofing off) every major piece for the bench was milled and the majority of the needed lamination's were complete.

Here are some snapshots of the day:

Me jointing pieces for the top. Man, that cutter head is one big spinning piece of steel.

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Now to the thickness planer. I like this better...I'm much farther away from those cutters :)
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Paul ripping the pieces to width. The width he's cutting here will turn into the thickness of the top..between 4.5 and 5 inches
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The results of a fun day's work! The parts for my bench stacked up on one of Paul's benches.

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...and with all the machinery shut down, we each enjoyed a Hop Devil before calling it a day.

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too be continued in a week or two....

[Scott M Perry]

So, that's not actually you in your avatar?

Chris, I'm jealous of your bench build. Beautiful material, time well spent with a fellow woodworker.

[Dave Proper]

Two bottles of beer on the bench, two bottles of beer
If one those bottles should happen to quench
One bottle of beer on the bench...

Looks like the start of beautiful bench!

[Robert McNaull]

That's going to make one serious bench!

[Chris Griggs]

Thanks guys. I'm pretty excited about it.

Hopefully when its done it will look something like this. Except it will have square dog wholes...and the layout of the modular storage unit underneath will probably change, and the front vise is going to be my 7" QR vise I already own so a little smaller than that drawing of a 10" I found in the Sketchup library.

But otherwise...pretty much like that...you get the drift.

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[Adam Cruea]

Something tells me that sliding deadman may get on a last nerve very quickly if there are drawers behind it.

Just a thought.

[Chris Griggs]

Something tells me that sliding deadman may get on a last nerve very quickly if there are drawers behind it.

Just a thought.

Yeah, that's definitely crossed my mind. But not having some type of board jack will get on my nerves worse. I'll actually probably make a mix of drawers and cupboards and it will be sectioned into 3 units not 2 so I'll always be able to access 2 out of 3 sections. I figure if underbench storage gets on my nerves I'll take it out and just put it in the corner of the shop (it will be a seperate unit)...and the deadman is easy enough to take off if I want to also.

[Steve Voigt]

You look so different without a cat perched on each shoulder! :D
Seriously, looks great. I'm sure I'm not the only person who thinks you should ditch the drawers for a simple shelf. But, it's your bench! Have fun!

[Pat Barry]

This reminds me I have one last Fat Tire in the fridge. Think I'll crack it open for the kick-off today. Nice work by the way. Are you now a converted power tool guy? LOL

[Chris Griggs]

Thanks Steve. I'll at a minimum have multiple shelves....probably with doors (possible sliding doors) to keep dust and shavings off them. I want my stuff right there, I need to maximize space, and I want to keep crap of my tools. Indeed, there are plenty of people who advise against under bench storage cupboards and drawers. I've read all the reasons not too, but I'm till going to do it. It definitely appeals to me and I figure if Ron Brese, Glenn Huey, the Shakers liked it, it must have something going for it.

I won't have a full set of drawers like in the sketch. That was just an initial sketch I came up with a while ago. But as a general design, I know what I want.

Again though, the storage will come later. I'll add them after the bench is setup in my basement.

[Chris Griggs]

This reminds me I have one last Fat Tire in the fridge. Think I'll crack it open for the kick-off today. Nice work by the way. Are you now a converted power tool guy? LOL

Haha, Nah. But I wouldn't mind having a jointer, a planer and some dust collection. I have no interest in tables saws of router cut joinery for most of what I do. But quality machines to do the heavy lifting sure are nice.

[Chris Griggs]

This bench (which belongs to our buddy Chris Fournier) BTW, was one of the main inspiration. Its his take on the Fortune/Nelson bench in the Landis workbench book.

Mine will have more of a roube-esc undercarriage, as well as the deadman, but its the same general concept.

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[Steve Voigt]

I've read all the reasons not too, but I'm till going to do it. It definitely appeals to me and I figure if Ron Brese, Glenn Huey, the Shakers liked it, it must have something going for it.


Well, I can't argue with that. And I like the idea of adding the storage later.

[Brian Holcombe]

I think this is going to be spectacular. Not into the under storage personally, but I think they will look quite nice. I don't use it because I have no need for it, but I see no reason to avoid it.

[Jim Matthews]

Something tells me that sliding deadman may get on a last nerve very quickly if there are drawers behind it.Just a thought.

I have the same set up, and it's rare that I'll get stuck for something behind a clamped board.
It has happened, just not so often.

More a worry is having what amounts to a toe kick right where you'll stand.
I recommend raising that rail off the floor, with room for clearance so you can belly up to the bench.

Skinny guys may not need much clearance, but it comes in handy.

The only downside is that shavings find their way under.

Drawers also would serve as supports, making the deadman surplus to requirements.

[Keith Mathewson]

I've owned a few benches over the years and am nearing the end of a new bench build which I hope will incorparate all of the things I want and leave out the things I didn't like about some of the previous benches. Here is what works for me,

- I've had benches with and without under bench storage and I've found storage to be much nicer.
- If you do a fair amount of handwork not having a sliding deadman gets frustrating fast. They slide off easily to be stored when not needed.
- Having the leading edge of the bench inline with the base REALLY gets old.
- A wagon wheel end-vise is more compact and pleasant to use.
- A leg vise holds better and is more user friendly that a metal end-vise mounted on the bench face.

Here are some pics of the progress

[Michael Peet]

Nice start, Chris. It took me like 6 months to get as far as you did in 6 hours. Sure would have been handy to have some machinery to speed things up!

Mike

[Chris Griggs]

Hi Keith. Well this is only my second bench, but the first bench lead me to most the conclusions you've reached.

- I definitely found myself wishing for underneath storage.

- For handwork, which yes I mainly do, boards need support underneath when being jointed. My current bench does it with pegs and holdfasts in the large apron. This one will have a deadman. I won't go without one

- Yep, can't tell from the drawing but the top will hang 4 inches beyond the base. Flush legs get in the way of dog holes, holdfast holes and clamps. There are advantages to flush legs to, but after a lot of thought decided the cons out way the pros.

- Wagon vises....well I really want a traditional tail vise on this one for its added clamping ability. I wouldn't mind having the benchcrafts wagon vise, but I'm not going to caught up the cash for their hardware.

- Leg vises...current bench has one. I love a lot of things about it, but when I'm working with several thicknesses of stock the pin gets annoying. Yes their are alternatives (I see you have the cross), but I really like the efficiency and small footprint of a basic QR vise. I'll admit though that is the ONE thing about my design that I think I MAY come to change my mind about...but the nice thing about face vises is that its easy to change to a different type later....not so much with a tail vise.

Michael...tell me about it dude. That rough old lumber would have taking me a LONG time to prep. It was really nice to use those machines. High quality machinery like that is such a joy to use.

[Chris Griggs]

Oh and Keith. Beautiful shop and awesome bench. That's a quite a shelf of molding planes you got there. SWEET!

[Frederick Skelly]

A new panel gauge, a new bench, AND an article in on cats work for PWW? Where DO you find the time old man? :D

Enjoy! That looks like its gonna be a super bench!

Fred

[Chris Griggs]

A new panel gauge, a new bench, AND an article in on cats work for PWW? Where DO you find the time old man? :D


Well, not having any kids helps :).

Who new my 30s would be so great!

[Paul Incognito]

I'm enjoying reading the comments.
I had a great time working with Chris yesterday and am looking forward to the rest of the build.
And I've seen the panel gauge and it is truly sweet! Feels good in the hands and has a sure, substantial feel. Looks good, too!
My biggest decision is what kind of post work-day beer to get for next time...Oh, and which Veritas tool is going to be my first purchase. Chris was kind enough to bring some of his planes for me to check out...
PI

[Adam Cruea]

Yeah, that's definitely crossed my mind. But not having some type of board jack will get on my nerves worse. I'll actually probably make a mix of drawers and cupboards and it will be sectioned into 3 units not 2 so I'll always be able to access 2 out of 3 sections. I figure if underbench storage gets on my nerves I'll take it out and just put it in the corner of the shop (it will be a seperate unit)...and the deadman is easy enough to take off if I want to also.


That's why I just drilled 3/4" holes in the apron of the side with a face vise. The only time I could foresee it being a problem is if I had a door or something that was like 20 inches that I needed to edge plane.

If worse comes to worse, I suppose I can make a hanging deadman that can be removed from the apron holes that go all the way through. :)

[Mike Holbrook]

Chris, would it be correct to assume you are going to keep the old bench? Just wondering if the new design is geared toward filling in missing features of your current bench or replacing it? I moved my hand tool work area into a whole separate room and I am still calculating whether or not I am going to have room for everything now that I also need to have a place for the shaving horse/mule.

[Malcolm Schweizer]

Chris, thanks for posting. Looks like a great bench.

Keith- you suck. Haha. No, seriously, I love the shop and the bench. That thing is huge!!!!

I have plans for a Ruobo when I get my next bonus. I want to do two leg vises- one sliding. That way I can clamp just about anything between the two. I often joint very long boards and also want the ability to dovetail very wide boards for sea chests. Yes, I could do this with a deadman, but the idea of a sliding leg vise is worth the extra money to me.

I notice a lot of you put your bench against the wall. I prefer it out in the open. I do a lot of builds where I need to access all sides of the project.

[Graham Haydon]

Chris

This looks great, kinda sad to see the ol' English bench being relegated :-). That bench does look good though. I like the quick release, in fact I love a quick release vice. Setting the storage units down lower than the bench top is good, a dumping ground when needed and space to use a holdfast when required. Sliding dead man, surely no issue, you can remove it when not in use right?

[Jeff Bartley]

Awesome! And that Hop Devil is a great beer!

[Jeff Bartley]

Chris,
Another thought: if you make your drawers open from both sides of the bench (provided it won't sit against a wall) then you wouldn't need to worry much about having something clamped in front blocking access to the drawers. I built a big bench a few years ago and have been plotting to put storage under it, still can't decide if that storage will include drawers but if so I'd like to build them so they can be pulled out from both sides.
For what it's worth, I did spring for the Benchcrafted wagon vise and never once have I regretted that choice.

[Chris Griggs]

Chris, would it be correct to assume you are going to keep the old bench? Just wondering if the new design is geared toward filling in missing features of your current bench or replacing it? I moved my hand tool work area into a whole separate room and I am still calculating whether or not I am going to have room for everything now that I also need to have a place for the shaving horse/mule.

I'm actually not sure yet. Depends on space, but I would like to keep just to have as an extra work surface. You are right they are very different benches. The English bench definitely caters more to heavy stock prep (<34", built in planing stops, big aprons for jointing) whil the new one more towards joinery (36" high, with added work holding ability of the tail vise) but no they are not necessarily intended for different tasks.

I like the English design a lot, but when I thought about the things I didn't like this new bench is what I landed on. I intend to use it for all types of tasks, including the heavy stock prep that the English bench is so good at, BUT I do think it will be nice to have the English bench around still for rougher work, especially when I am mid project where I might want one area to be kept a little neater for finer joinery or finish planing, and another for hogging off a lot of material, doing glueups and stuff where I might want to drive nails into the top. So I guess the old bench will be used to help keep the new bench in nicer shape. for instance, I currently do all my metal work (read: saw filing and sharpening at the current bench. I won't do that stuff at the new bench, and will continue to rely on the old bench for that stuff. I'm not a pristine workbench kinda guy, but it will be nice to have a work surface that I keep clean, and that won't mark up freshly finish planed or sanded surfaces.


Chris

This looks great, kinda sad to see the ol' English bench being relegated :-). That bench does look good though. I like the quick release, in fact I love a quick release vice. Setting the storage units down lower than the bench top is good, a dumping ground when needed and space to use a holdfast when required. Sliding dead man, surely no issue, you can remove it when not in use right?

Yes the deadman can be removed, or just slid out of the way. I did debate it at first, but once I though about it I realized it would be a non issue. I mean, it mostly gets used for edge jointing, and when I'm edge jointing I'm really only using my 6 or 7 and those will already be out.


One thing I do think is kinda of funny as I look at my old bench and soon to be bench is how much I've developed my own preferences over the last few year. My first bench is pretty much straight of of Chris Schwarz's book, while my new bench pretty much goes against all his preferences/recommendations with its underbench storage, setback legs, square dogs and tail vise that will be made from the often shunned green hardware.

That's not into to start another poopoo on CS conversation btw. His book was essential in helping make my first bench a great workhorse. But I do find it interesting just how much different woodworkers workbench preference's are. After just a couple years of working by hand you REALLY come to know what works for you and what doesn't.

[Chris Griggs]

Chris,
Another thought: if you make your drawers open from both sides of the bench (provided it won't sit against a wall) then you wouldn't need to worry much about having something clamped in front blocking access to the drawers. I built a big bench a few years ago and have been plotting to put storage under it, still can't decide if that storage will include drawers but if so I'd like to build them so they can be pulled out from both sides.
For what it's worth, I did spring for the Benchcrafted wagon vise and never once have I regretted that choice.

That's a good idea. I'll try to do that if I go with drawers. It won't be totally against the wall, but it won't be in the center of the room either..more like a couple feet from the wall, so it will depend on space.

Yeah, I don't know anyone who is unhappy with that hardware. Actually though, I were to spring for fancy tail vise hardware I'd get either the LN tail vise or LV QR tail vise. The LN is just a rock solid and make a fantastic smooth fairly traditional tail vise...I haven't used the LV, but I'm sure its great stuff too and the lazy man in me does like the quick idiot proof installation...

Anyway, I've got some of the green hardware on its way. I've heard a number of people say it sucks, but I've heard an equal number say it works great IF you install in precisely....I'll make it work, and if it looks like total crap I'll send it back and get something else. I suspect it will be fine though.

[Winton Applegate]

Where is all the sweating ?
Where is all the piles of curls and endless sharpening to make them ?
Where ?
Where is all the blisters ? (and that's just from putting all the blades in the sharpening jig.)
:D
Nah . . .
nah . . .
something ain't right.
Not enough Neander there

Chris,
I am seriously beginning to reconsider your status here as a TRUE Neander.
We may have to call a comity to discuss the possible discussion of the election of an investigative body to reevaluate the size of your supraorbital arches.
Don't make us pull out the dividers on this one.

Ok fooling aside, what little old reclaimed douglas fir I have messed with seemed way splintery / slivery.
Is it going to make a good bench without biting you every time you wipe the curls off the bench with your barehand ?
When I made my Klausz I had my rails in the way vise bolted into some old reclaimed douglas fir eight by eight (or there abouts) basement posts and that was my experience.
And don't even get me started on the fools that make their bench tops out of fir plywood. Makes me bleed just thinking about working on those &%^$*#&$*% bench tops.
http://i801.photobucket.com/albums/yy298/noydb1/IMG_0726_zpsdf83a92b.jpg (http://s801.photobucket.com/user/noydb1/media/IMG_0726_zpsdf83a92b.jpg.html)

Heck I don't know.

[Chris Griggs]

Winton what?

No comments on the lack of a traditional shoulder vise, with corresponding picture of your crotch that you supposedly don't constantly slam into it?. I guess I satisfied your Klaus bench fetish with the tail vise huh? :)

I'm not worried about the fir. It's pretty darn smooth off the planer. The edges might be prone to splintering, but that's why god invented chamfering. My current bench is salvaged yellow pine (and perhaps I'm comparing apples to oranges), but I've had no problems with splintering. I tend to sweep or blow the shaving off my bench though.

As far as my Neanderism...well the sooner I build the bench the sooner I can use it build stuff with handtools. How's that sound?....

..or just do your committee and have my membership revoked....I must admit that I really enjoyed using that machinery...just a totally different experience then the cheap crap I've used before. I might trade in my neander membership if I had a jointer and planer like that, though I still wouldn't use a router, because routers are evil (says the guy who hates routers so much that he currently has 21 molding planes in route to his house)

[Winton Applegate]

blow the shaving off my bench though.
Oh with an electric powered compressed air blast I suppose ? ? ? ?
? ? ?
Or Bob forbid ; a leaf blower ? ? ?
OK that's it . . .
BUSSSSS OUT THE DIVIDERS ! ! !
Harumph, Harumph
We shall see young man.
We will just see about THIS.


No comments ?
Well I was going to mention that while you were (I can hardly bring my self to utter the words) electron POWERING through that forest of lumber . . .
. . . somebody broke into your shop and drilled all your dog holes to round ones.
Shockiing.
Simply shocking.

Chamfering
IiiiiiDnOh
that'll probably just sharpen up the splinters nice for the attack to follow.
:)
WAY TO GO ON THE HOUSE !

[Winton Applegate]

I don't know if you saw my addition to my first post but I will paste it here just to help me get out my frustration with the blasted things :


And don't even get me started on the fools that make their bench tops out of fir plywood. Makes me bleed just thinking about working on those &%^$*#&$*% bench tops.

[Chris Griggs]

. . . somebody broke into your shop and drilled all your dog holes to round ones.



Actually, the sketchup drawing I posted is out dated. You'll pleased to know that the dog holes will be square.

Thanks for your comments Winton. ANd yes, we love the new house!

You crack me up (when I can decode what you're saying anyway) :)

[Winton Applegate]

Board on the nerve.

(you know how I like to argue both sides of the thing. I just take the one nobody is on yet).

Probably won't be a problem. With a board being worked on the deadman you won't be able to get in the drawers anyway so we can't blame it on the deadman (he is after all DEAD).

When there is no board on the DM then it ca simply be lifted out and only put back for the photo session for the magazine article.

Annnnnnnd that brings up another pet worry. If I were to worry.
One of the wonderfullest woodworkers of our age has drawers under his bench just like that. He pulls out a drawer to support the plank and does not even use a DM.

Of course that fills the bloody drawer with curls.

There are so MANY things in this world that puzzle me.
Drawers under a woodworking bench being one of them.

[David Weaver]

There are so MANY things in this world that puzzle me.
Drawers under a woodworking bench being one of them.

Oh my...

We (collectively....all of us in a mind control way) love the drawers under a bench as long as there is a space between the bench and the drawers/cabinets so the average guy walking down the street can still use his hold downs. And if you don't...

Well, like, that's just, like, your opinion, man.

:)

[Winton Applegate]

when I can decode what you're saying
Just trying to provide bright quick young minds with some slight exercise.

and old ones with consarn frustrating rassa, frassa $%^#@

(hey it is fun typing those symbles maybe I will make them my new handle. Well not here; got to be respectable here but . . . hmmmmm)

[Winton Applegate]

Well, like, that's just, like, your opinion, man
:)
It is my OBSERVATION
viewed through my purple colored vail that is my sick , obsessive , out of control, involvement with the Klausz WAY.
Don't let yourself become entangled in this cult.
Save your selves
or
you could become an undying proselytizer walking the earth, living only to preach and pray.
It is too late for me . . .
:(:):p

[David Weaver]

It's a line from a movie :) I wouldn't have actually said that myself.

[Brian Holcombe]

I'm a proponent of the Scandi shoulder as well, even though it is a giant pita to build.

Moar pics!

[Chris Griggs]

It's a line from a movie :) I wouldn't have actually said that myself.

I think I might be the only one who caught that :)

[Chris Griggs]

Moar pics!

I'm probably going out to Pauls next this Sunday to continue work. Will be sure to take more pics. It's all being worked on at his shop which is about 45 minutes from me so this will all be done in weekend stints. I think the next thing on the list is the dog strip and possible the tail vise, as having both those done will help with laying out the figuring out where to put the base in relation to the top.

[Paul Incognito]

Ok fooling aside, what little old reclaimed douglas fir I have messed with seemed way splintery / slivery.
Is it going to make a good bench without biting you every time you wipe the curls off the bench with your barehand ?
Heck I don't know.

Hey Winton,
I've been working with my DF bench for a couple of months now and haven't gotten a single splinter.
Must just be you... :)
Seriously though, if you wipe your hand across the grain, you're far less likely to get a splinter. Just sayin,
PI

[Brett Bobo]

I think I might be the only one who caught that :)

The Dude--I'm with you guys. The follow-up response to that is hilarious but obviously not appropriate for the masses. :D

Great start to the build, Chris. I'm also looking forward to the progress photos.

[Christopher Charles]

Enjoying too. I very much like my BC wagon but there's nothing magic about it. The green tail vise is what G Hack picked for his dream bench after all. I suspect youll be just fine after a careful install, which they all require. Will say that i vastly prefer square to round after making the switch.

My old bench is DF and no trouble in 10 years.

Good luck and enjoy the massive old iron-- wish i'd been able to use similar.

Cheers,
C

[Chris Griggs]

The Dude--I'm with you guys.

It think Dave's response to Winton would have been better if instead of quoting he had inserted a clip!


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pWdd6_ZxX8c

[Chris Griggs]

The green tail vise is what G Hack picked for his dream bench after all.

Not 5 minutes ago I ran across that old FWW video and was noticing that. His vise tail vise seemed to operate very well which was very encouraging. I just wish they would ditch the green, because well I've been wondering....


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1stc_pAf1V0

[Chris Griggs]

Good luck and enjoy the massive old iron-- wish i'd been able to use similar.



Yeah its sweet. I'm tempted knock out a wall of my foundation and put in a a big doorway just so I can fit something similar in my shop some day (though I don't think my wife would approve) My basement stairwell is at most 24" wide which pretty much rules out any of the awesome old machinery.

[David Weaver]

It think Dave's response to Winton would have been better if instead of quoting he had inserted a clip!



I couldn't do it because every clip I found had the whole scene in it - context and all, and that would've been way out of bounds on SMC. i LOVE every jesus segment in the big lebowski, though.

[Chris Griggs]

I couldn't do it because every clip I found had the whole scene in it - context and all, and that would've been way out of bounds on SMC. i LOVE every jesus segment in the big lebowski, though.

Wierd, I just googled the quote and the short clip came right up...yeah, definitely could not play the whole scene here. That would not over well.:)

[Noah Wagener]

Winton probably knows him as El Duderino.

[Tom Scott]

I think I might be the only one who caught that :)

When my son recently told me that I would be a grandfather, they asked what I wanted to be called. I said they can just call me The Dude.

[Chris Griggs]

When my son recently told me that I would be a grandfather, they asked what I wanted to be called. I said they can just call me The Dude.

and I hope with all my heart that they in fact do!

[Edward Clarke]

Chris,

You don't know how happy the picture of you using that jointer makes me feel. I sold that monster to Paul a while ago in the hopes that someone could actually get some more use out of it. I'm glad to see it still doing good work after all these years!

[Chris Griggs]

Chris,

You don't know how happy the picture of you using that jointer makes me feel. I sold that monster to Paul a while ago in the hopes that someone could actually get some more use out of it. I'm glad to see it still doing good work after all these years!

Oh. So your the fella he bought it from! Awesome!

Paul did a great job getting it setup. It is such a sweet thing to use! Runs amazingly quite. Took me a few times to get used to looking that big cutter head right in the eye as I passed the lumber over it. It is seriously intimidating big piece of sharp spinning steel.

Anyway, I sure enjoyed using it (that was the first time I've ever used a power jointer BTW, quite an introduction), and I know Paul LOVES the thing.

[David Weaver]

When my son recently told me that I would be a grandfather, they asked what I wanted to be called. I said they can just call me The Dude.

I guess you'll find out if they give you a longer name....or if they're into the brevity thing.

[Brian Holcombe]

When my son recently told me that I would be a grandfather, they asked what I wanted to be called. I said they can just call me The Dude.

The dude, that's a name that no one would self-apply where I come from.

[Tom Scott]

I guess you'll find out if they give you a longer name....or if they're into the brevity thing.

I said it jokingly at first, but they jumped all over it so I think it's going to stick.

[Christopher Charles]

The Grand Dude. Roll with it.

[Winton Applegate]

The Dude
I saw that but has been quite a while. Sounds like time to rewatch it.
Is the quote about bowling having rules from The Big Lebowski ?
Sounds like it was.

[Winton Applegate]

DF no splinter trouble
glad to hear it guys. For Chris's sake
Apparently I am full of sheeeet on the DF.

God speed Mr Griggs

[Winton Applegate]

Dude clips
Man I hope no body clicks on those other clips or we are all going to be banished.
Well banished isn't close to what is going to happen, more like fire bombed in our homes and then the ashes flushed down the toylet.

[Winton Applegate]

Scandi shoulder . . . a giant pita to build.
Nah, that is called "fun" around these parts.
Seriously though. I had a great time building my bench. Important to not look forward to all the things I could "should" be working on instead. Just stay in the moment (in this case moment means YEAR) and enjoy every saw stroke and chisel cut.
But maybe I wax too romantic.

[Brian Holcombe]

Truth is I enjoy every moment of it, easy or pita.

[Noah Wagener]

i agree with you about dug fir Winton. i would chamfer the bottom of the legs so it it slides you don not get blow out.

[Chris Griggs]

Got a few hours out at Pauls shop today, and we got the dog strip knocked out.

Here's Paul taking a test cut in some scrap to make sure the routing template is giving us what we want.

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And here's the dog strip in clamps getting glued on to the front of the top. They are 1" from the edge 3 1/2" from front face of 1 dog to the front face of the next. They start 14" in from the left side and end 2" before the area when the notch for the tail vise will be cut out

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I think Paul took some in progress picture of me routing the actual hole, so he can post those if he wants....these are all I took.

[Pat Barry]

Got a few hours out at Pauls shop today, and we got the dog strip knocked out.

Here's Paul taking a test cut in some scrap to make sure the routing template is giving us what we want.
...

I think Paul took some in progress picture of me routing the actual hole, so he can post those if he wants....these are all I took.

Paul, please do post those pictures of our Neanderthal friend Chris running the router. They would be priceless. LOL

[Chris Griggs]

Paul, please do post those pictures of our Neanderthal friend Chris running the router. They would be priceless. LOL

Hahaha...yeah, I'm eating my words today considering how many times, including in this thread I've said I HATE routers (though I do own one that I never use)

I certainly wouldn't have wanted to cut all dog holes by hand today though. I'm not going to say I enjoyed using the router (that's a given that I didn't), but it was the right tool for the job today :). Hopefully Paul will post the pics!

I did use a chisel while making the router template though!

[Paul Incognito]

282133282134
Just for the record, I hate routers too, even though I love them. They're noisy, dusty and generally obnoxious. But they get the job done.
That doesn't stop me from owning a few.
282135There's more, this is an old picture.

I cut the straight sides for the dog template with the chop saw and Chris did the rest with a hammer and chisel. I gotta say, the guy handles the tools like a surgeon, very impressive!
Aside from listening to the router all day and filling my shop up with smoke from the dull bit, we had a good time getting this done! And I gotta say, when I built my benches, I went with round dogs, pretty much out of sheer laziness. After doing this, I almost wish I'd have gone with square. Almost...
Oh, and I also noticed that I should have straightened the sign on the door...

Fun stuff,
PI

[David Weaver]

Hahaha...yeah, I'm eating my words today considering how many times, including in this thread I've said I HATE routers (though I do own one that I never use)



Necessary evil sometimes when you're building something because you want to have what you're building rather than building for the sake of enjoying making things.

[Chris Griggs]

I've been working on my tail vise at home, since I only get to Paul's once a week tops to work on the bench. Inclement weather gave me a free day-off yesterday and I managed to my tail vise core complete. This is based on the plans for the Nelson vise in the Scott Landis workbench book. For whatever reason, I had a really hard time wrapping my head around it so it took me a good bit of time in the shop looking at the plans, then looking at the hardware, then looking at the wood to figure out the how/where/what/why of it....I can't just follow plans blindly...I need to know why. Its actually very very simple, but its one of those things I needed to see and do in real life to understand the construction.

Here's the core in glueup. If I can find my real camera (as opposed to just my phone) I'll take some more pics and maybe even make a video of the structure. I think it would make it easier for folks contemplating the design to see in more detail the how/why of the design. There are a couple components for which I didn't adhere perfectly to the dimensions of the plan and once I got the core together it became immediately apparent why are as they are in the plan...I lucked out and what I changed won't impact things, but I think it would good to point them out in a later post. For now I'll just say this...if you get the green tail vise hardware from LV and make the Nelson vise from Landis book its best to just follow the plans in the book exactly...they are written for that exact hardware (or at least with its exact dimensions) and thus the plan as it is written is perfectly suited to it... its may not be clear why at first, but trust me follow the plans...they'll make perfect sense after you start getting tings assembled.

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[Chris Griggs]

Some pics from yesterday. Pretty much the entire day was spent working on the tail vise. Cutting the notch (yes we started it with Festool, and finished with a handsaw), carefully cutting recesses for and hanging the hardware/vise core, and then making the rest of the wood components (vise dog strip, wood top, vise end cap). It was incredibly time consuming, and took pretty much all day. We had a good time as always though, and I think the extra effort we took will lead to smooth moving vise that doesn't sag or rise up. Though I didn't initially plan on it, I decided the vise was a enough of a PITA to warrant dovetailing the dog strip in the vise's end cap. I started on those when I got home, and that's all she wrote for now.


Before going to Pauls to work on the bench on Sunday, I made a mockup of how the vise would hang on the bench in a piece of scrap oak. This took me a good bit of time doing on my own on Saturday but I'm REALLY glad I did it. It helped use figure out several key measurements/locations/dimensions, as well as maximize the travel of the vise whilst not allowing it to be opened to a point where the screw would come out of the nut. I didn't realize how important this mock up would be but without I think we would have encountered some frustrating surprises.

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We used Paul's tracksaw to start the kerfs for squaring the ends as well as for the vise notch.

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Some shots of the vises guts as they look hung on the bench. No the vise harware doesn't come in black, but fortunately rustoleum does...hence the block tips, which will be visible. I, of course, painted the handle/garter black as well, which you can just makeout in the left of the next photo.

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...and the dovetails i started when I got home last night and will finish the next time I get down to the shop...these are some big dovetails...I don't usually use the "140 trick", but as you can see in the final photo, in this case I decided it would be worthwhile.
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[Mike Holbrook]

Obviously track saws are powered hand tools!

[Chris Griggs]

Obviously track saws are powered hand tools!


Obviously! How did I overlook that.

Not that it matters...This isn't a handtool build anyway....its a "get 'er done" build of a mostly handtool woodworkers bench.

[Marko Milisavljevic]

Chris,

Cutting square dog holes by hand really isn't hard. I just cut mine over the last few days, and while I dreaded it at first, it was actually very easy at about 20 minutes per hole, and for someone expert it would take under 10.

I first drilled on drill press two 1/2" holes to define where "shoulder" is, since that's hard to get to with chisel/saw. Then I cut with the sides with backsaw, and put a diagonal cut where shoulder is. Then with chisel I hit right at knife line, starting from top of the bench, and knocked most of the waste out. Takes another 2-3 minutes of cross grain mallet/chisel work to chop it down close to final dimensions, then hold chisel in paring stance with both hands horizontally bevel up and move it rapidly back and forth along the bottom, it makes wonderful rapid levelling and smoothing action. Few swipes with shoulder plane to clean and level it some more. No need for router plane, and much nicer finish without it. Then with chisel pare/chop out what is left of the shoulder area. This was in hard maple.

[Chris Griggs]

That's a nice synopsis Marko. I agree it would not be technically hard...really no different than cutting a dado by hand I imagine. Just not something I felt like spending the time doing on a workbench that I just want to get done and start using.

Anyway, again thanks for the great synopsis of how to do it by hand. I think that's valuable for people to know.

[Brian Holcombe]

Looks great Chris!

[Chris Griggs]

Thanks Brain. We are having a great time and I'm pretty psyched to finally have a BIG (about 8'4") bench. Pretty excited to see how I like this style of tail vise too...it better be worth the effort...I think it will be.

I'd actually love to redo my Nicholson at some point too, but in a more "primitive" form then the one I have now. the English design really is great for heavy stock prep and if I ever have the space for two LARGE benches I would love to have the one I'm making for most stuff and something like a 10' English bench with just stops, crochets, and hold fast holes, battons and nails when needed (no face vise and probably no end vise) for heavy stock prep...one bench to keep nice (ish) and one to make a mess of, that can wait a few years though. Before going down that road I need to find space for and build better tool storage.

[Bobby O'Neal]

Chris, this is looking great! I'm glad to see your "get it done" approach. I think its valuable and wise, even at the cost of encountering an impish, rotary cutting machine. It looks like its going to be an awesome bench. I just moved my 9' Roubo into storage while we move to a temporary spot waiting on our house build. Moving it is no picnic but the size of it is a joy to work on. I'm sure you'll have the same experience.

[Brian Holcombe]

8'4" is pretty huge for a bench, very nice.

Better tool storage is next for me, I'm building an armoire for tool storage over the summer.

[Chris Griggs]

Thanks Bobbie. Yes, its not something I want to have to move once I get it down to my basement. I very deliberately waited until I bought a home to build a large bench. It will technically be a knock down, as in the mortises in the underside of the top will not be glued to the tenons, and the front and rear stretchers will be secured with threaded rod running down the length and through the tenons...but all that's just to get it down to the basement (it won't go down assembled) and so I can take it with me if/when I move again (which hopefully will not be for quite a while). My current bench was designed to be easy to move and fit into limited space...the new one is designed to stay put.


Brian, oh yeah, the length will be great. Actually, I wasn't going to do quite that long, but I was chatting with Rob Lee a while back and mentioned that I was going to make a new bench and he, ever the bad influence said (paraphrasing) "make it 9ft, so that way it will 1 foot longer than biggest furniture sized piece you are likely to encounter". I thought that made sense so I decided that if I could get at all over 8ft it would be good.

8' 4" was the max we got out of those boards and I can't imagine ever needing anything larger for furniture, very happy.

Looking forward to seeing your tool armoire Brian...sounds pretty sweet.

[Chris Griggs]

encountering an impish, rotary cutting machine.

I love this btw...hilarious.

And good luck with the move. Moving is such huge PITA not to mentioned huge money suck. I've moved WAY too much over the passed few years, and can't tell you how good it feels not to be anticipating another move for years to come. It'll be nice to get that Roubo into its new home I'm sure.

[Brian Holcombe]

Chris, I have an idea for you than I plan to deploy on the next table I build. I'm building a split top dining table next and plan to attach the top to the legs via battens that have sliding dovetails. If they are left to float than the top can still expand and contract (as it will have to do). I plan to run a full length support down the center of each half of the top which will interlock with the battens and are secured with bolts threaded into the top so that it can be removed multiple times without destroying the threads.

The base will be a contemporary style trestle base but with wedged through tenons to secure the legs and a stretcher that interlocks.

For a heavy bench top it could be attached with some heafty sliding dovetails and just bolted in the center.

[Chris Griggs]

That's pretty sweet idea Brian. And I want to see it when you do on your dining table.

Will I do it too the bench? Honestly, no. As much as I like the suggestion, it's more complication than is required for the workbench, which is happy to just sit on tenons.

[Brian Holcombe]

I'll post up some pics. When I first started building furniture I was really into interlocking joinery and a dropped the obsession because of all the added complications. I've found myself drawn to it again but with more restraint in it's application, and better equipped for it.

My bench top is attached in a similar fashion, but the battens and just bolted through slotted holes;
http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c181/SpeedyGoomba/02DA6770-2659-4DD3-8E30-F699BD60F303_zpsyor0zl7h.jpg

[Paul Incognito]

Here's a couple shots of Chris sawing wood
282720
Finishing up the end.
282721
And finishing up the vise notch.
Another fun day in the shop!

Brian, Are the bolt holes holding your bench top slotted? Also, +1 on wanting to see your tool armoir build!

Bobby, Never really thought of my jointer as "impish" before. I'll have to think on that a while...

Marko, I'm with Chris on this. In this case it's not about the journey, it's about the destination!

PI

[Brian Holcombe]

Cool, I'll post it up along with the dining table. The bolts are slotted, but the slots are covered by the washers.

I have a feeling from photos that Chris is like a surgeon with hand tools.

[Chris Griggs]

Sweet bench Brian.

Surgeon...ummm, no.... unless by surgeon you mean because I operate very very slowly then yes I suppose..but I warn you, many a tree's family would sue me for malpractice. :)

[Chris Griggs]

Finished the dovetailing on the vise tonight. Man those are s lot bigger than I' used to. My dovetail saw bottomed out on the pins so I needed to use my sash saw to cut them, and I ended up using my bowsaw to cut out the waste (usually I use a coping saw or just chisel it out).

Anyway, I'm feeling to lazy to describe any details but here are the pics. I still need to saw down the vis's end cap (it won't have that L shape) and also bore a hole for the screw but otherwise the vise block is pretty much ready for glueup. I dovetails seem to be closing up well so I think once everything is glues and flushed up it will look pretty good. Fun!

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282741 282746 282739 282738

[william nelson colorado]

The bench is moving right along. It looks great so far! Man, those are big dovetails

[Brian Holcombe]

Thanks Chris,

those dovetails are awesome!

[Chris Griggs]

Thanks William and Brian. I've never cut DT that big before. The 2" thick tail board and corresponding 2" deep pins definitely make things harder, since any amount off you are is amplified by 3x-4x as much as it would be in typical dovetails. It took a couple of test fitting and trimmings to get them too seat fully, and I eventually realized a slightly out of square tail (which was cut right on the line so I guess was a marking error) was wedging and holding things up....once I realized the issue my float saved the day and everything came together easily. I love my float!

[Brian Holcombe]

I cut some large dovetails for my bench as well (10/4) and found the same thing, you have to be pretty spot on with the squareness. I found I have to do an incredible amount of paring for the fit.

I know many just cut to the line and seat it with a mallet, but I always test fit, and test fitting is especially helpful for extra large dovetails.

[Bobby O'Neal]

Bobby, Never really thought of my jointer as "impish" before. I'll have to think on that a while...

PI

I should have clarified…the routers are the imps. A jointer is a tool many neanders would covet, I think. Both rotary, but only one is a touch evil.

[Robert McNaull]

Chris, any new progress?

[David Weaver]

I heard there is!!

[Robert McNaull]

Thanks David, now I'm more curious, I'll follow that with the normal pictures or it didn't happen.:D

[Chris Griggs]

Yep. Didn't do any work on it last weekend because I had to work-work on Sat and Sun...I also have to work-work next weekend, but Paul and I got some good shop work in today. The tail vise is done so we mounted it and got to try it out for the first time...its awesome...totally worth the effort. In addition to clamping things between dogs those jaws can hold a piece ever which way like nothing I've ever seen...it works so well that actually started thinking that don't even need a front vise. After about 5 minutes of using it I am thoroughly convinced that a "traditional" tail vise is vastly superior than any other type of end vise (to me anyway..as always YMMV)

Anyway, as far as what we got done today...we got the legs and stretchers dimensioned and got the legs mortised into the top. We are pretty much almost done, and one more weekend day in the shop and it'll be fully constructed...this doesn't include the storage of course, but in two weeks when I make it out to Pauls shop again, I fully expect that the bench itself will get fully assembled and be ready to bring home. Pretty exciting.

We didn't take many pics today as we both had schedules to keep, but I did snap a couple.

This tail vise installed and opened to full capacity.

283741

Paul wasting out the mortise in the underside of the top for the legs...he wasted out with a router and I did the fitting will chisels.
283740

The top and the legs getting taken apart at the end of the day.

283742

[Robert McNaull]

That's a nice bench Chris, puts mine to shame for sure. Thanks for posting!

[Brian Holcombe]

This is coming along nicely! I have a similar tail vise on mine, it's the vise I use on my bench most of the time that I'm using the bench.

[Chris Griggs]

This is coming along nicely! I have a similar tail vise on mine, it's the vise I use on my bench most of the time that I'm using the bench.


Thanks guys. It such a great style of vise. I can't believe they're not more popular (well, in mainstream WW media). I can't think of any recent "build x workbench" article, in any publication that used one. I'm still going to put my face vise on mine (just as you put a shoulder vise on yours), but honestly with a good tail vise of this type that has a good max opening I don't think I would miss a face vise if I didn't have one. It'll be interesting for me to see what I end up using more for joinery and other things I would typically do in a face vise...the tail vise or the QR vise.

I can't wait to get this bench into my shop.

[Brian Holcombe]

I use my shoulder vise for jointing edges and cutting dovetails mostly, works fabulously for those things.

Are you sticking with the typical draw bored mortise and tenons for the leg joinery?

[Chris Griggs]

Yeah, I think my face vise will be primarily used for edge jointing mostly...I wonder if I'll end up using the face or the tail more for DTs and tenons though.

The short stretchers will be drawbored into the legs, the long stretchers will be have threaded rod running through them, into stub tenons and out the side of the leg secured tightened/drawn in with nuts. That's how I did my first bench and it makes for a super solid joint that is easily knocked down.

The tenons in the tops of the legs won't be secured to the top...the weight of the top will keep the tenons in the mortises....again, so it can be knocked down.

I need to be able to knock it down to get it into my basement, and I want to be able knock it down if I ever need to move it again

[Steve Voigt]

Chris, the tail vise looks awesome! Love the dovetails!
Question: are you using the LV hardware that currently costs $74.50? Apologies if you already covered this--I couldn't find it.

[Brian Holcombe]

Come to think of it, I switch back and forth between the two for tenons.

That sounds like a good approach for the legs, I would suggest tusk tenons but they would strike me as being out of place on a roubo. I like flanged hex nuts for this type of thing, they are nice to look at. Something of the quality that you would see on a milling machine.

[Chris Griggs]

I considered tusk tenons...to late now actually, as the stretchers are all cut to length. The threaded rod is just darn effective and super easy to do.

Flange nuts or some other nice nut is a good idea.

[Chris Griggs]

After a very busy late winder that led to an about 2 month hiatus from working on (and very nearly completing the bench), Paul and I finally managed to get back together at his shop yesterday to finish up the construction.

Its was a fun day that involved...

Cutting the tenons on the stretchers on the bandsaw and mortising the legs at the drill press. (here I am squaring up the rounded ends of the mortises)
288634



Drawboring the short stretchers into the legs...There are few things more satisfying in woodworking than smacking a drawbore peg into place and watching the joint squeeze shut.
288638

Paul routing grooves for and running threaded rod that will hold the long stretchers into the legs. (needs to be knocked down to fit down my basement stairs). I'm a big fan of this construction method. I used it on my current bench too and have been really satisfied with it.
288637 288636

Assembling the bench in its full glory for the first time.
288633

And wrapping things up by making the chop for and hanging the front vise. This is how I left the bench yesterday, ready to be loaded into Paul's van to be delivered, possible today or next weekend.

288635

So while the build is done more or less, there are still a few things I need to do once the bench is at my place. Still need to make the dogs, do some shaping to the front chop, drill some peg and hold fast holes, turn a fancier handle for the tail vise, still plan make either a sliding deadman or freestanding board jack, and at some point add some cabinets underneath. I won't wait for all that to start using it though, of course..I'll make the dogs promptly drill some holes, and put it to use right away. Looking forward to bringing it home.

[Brian Holcombe]

Awesome, it's very well turned out!

Your stretchers seem to lend themselves to a sliding deadman quite nicely. I still need to put holes for holdfasts in my bench, sheer laziness (and endless furniture projects) take over at some point. If it reduces the number of times that you need to wind a clamp, it's worth it.

[Chris Griggs]

Thanks Brian!. Yes the stretchers will lend themselves to a sliding deadman and that is likely what I'll do. The one thing extra that I'll need to do is build a track of sorts out about 4 inches from the stretcher since the top overhangs the base/legs by a few inches. I'll actually probably not wait too long to add that as its a pretty principle component of the bench as I planned it out.

[Judson Green]

Yay! Way to go Chris!

I dig the "Mr. May" glamour shot

[Chris Griggs]

I dig the "Mr. May" glamour shot

Hehe Thanks!

Maybe we can all take pics like that and put together an SMC men and their bench calendar.

[Hilton Ralphs]

Very cool Chris but you could've have shown some more leg! It must be a good feeling to see it finished.

[Judson Green]

Hehe Thanks!

Maybe we can all take pics like that and put together an SMC men and their bench calendar.

To raise money? Not sure anyone has that much pity.

[Chris Griggs]

To raise money? Not sure anyone has that much pity.

Yeah, the people who are actually in it would probably be the only who buy them :)

[Chris Griggs]

Very cool Chris but you could've have shown some more leg! It must be a good feeling to see it finished.

I'll PM you one with more leg. :)

Yeah, feels good to have it done. Looking forward to putting it to use.

[Roy Lindberry]

Winton,

Klausz uses a slave for jointing larger boards. Since you seem pretty familiar with his setup, do you know of another method with the Scandinavian style bench, or is the slave pretty much it?

[Cody Armstrong]

Congrats Chris. Glad to see you finally getting the time to finish it up.
I've been waiting for a conclusion. :)

[David Weaver]

That looks like a pretty serious bench!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1IRGenlpf-E

[Chris Griggs]

Thanks guys!

Too funny Dave! :)

[Chris Griggs]

Chris, the tail vise looks awesome! Love the dovetails!
Question: are you using the LV hardware that currently costs $74.50? Apologies if you already covered this--I couldn't find it.

Was just looking back at this thread and see I missed this question. Thanks Steve! And yes, its that stuff...I just spray painted it black cause I didn't like the green. It seems like good solid stuff. I was very careful to install the hardware and build the wood part with a lot of care and precision. I used the Fortune/Nelson vise instructions from the Scott Landis Workbench book. I erred on the side of making everything too snug so the vise is a little sticky, but there is almost no play in it and I figure it will loosen some in use.

Anyway, I was very pleased with the hardware.

[Matthew N. Masail]

Regarding the drawers and sliding dead-man. if it were me I would sacrifice a little space, maybe 4inch or so between the drawers, and make the sliding deadman 3.5 inch wide. that way you could 'park' it between the drawers when not in use and you'd have free access all the time.


And congrats on your new house! dosen't get much better than having your own home!

[Chris Griggs]

Regarding the drawers and sliding dead-man. if it were me I would sacrifice a little space, maybe 4inch or so between the drawers, and make the sliding deadman 3.5 inch wide. that way you could 'park' it between the drawers when not in use and you'd have free access all the time.


And congrats on your new house! dosen't get much better than having your own home!

Thanks, actually I was thinking something similar, but that would not require sacrificing any space. Because the front of the bench overhangs the base the deadman will need to ride on track the protrudes from the legs/stretchers (instead of running on the stretches between the legs). This mean that the deadman will be able to slide all the way in front of the right leg. If I make the deadman no wider than the front leg (~5" IIRC), than when it is in front of the leg it will be completely out of the way. If I think a 5" wide deadman than I'll do as just described and make it so it can slide out of the way in front of the leg. If I think I want something wider, than I'll just pull it off when/if it gets in the way. Honestly though, I'm not too worried about it blocking the drawers since they can be so easily lifted out of place.

[Christopher Charles]

Congrats Chris on finishing the new work bench- having a good tail vise has been a boon for me and I hope you find it to be the same. Love the glam shot and an will work on one myself :)

Am considering drawers underneath myself and have found a sliding deadman to be very useful (though was skeptical). Will look forward to seeing what you decide to do next.

Cheers,
Chris C.

[Chris Griggs]

Congrats Chris on finishing the new work bench- having a good tail vise has been a boon for me and I hope you find it to be the same. Love the glam shot and an will work on one myself :)

Am considering drawers underneath myself and have found a sliding deadman to be very useful (though was skeptical). Will look forward to seeing what you decide to do next.

Cheers,
Chris C.

Thanks Chris. Yeah something to support a board while edge jointing is absolutely essential. I've been working on an "English" style bench so I'm used to having a big apron full of peg holes. It's also nice to having something like a deadman or an apron to clap the side of wide boards for dovetailing that isn't clamped in the vise. In the case of my new bench having a sliding deadman flush to the front of the bench will replace the apron and having flush legs (flush legs can be nice, but they can get really annoying too, which is why I set them back on this bench)

[Matthew N. Masail]

Thanks, actually I was thinking something similar, but that would not require sacrificing any space. Because the front of the bench overhangs the base the deadman will need to ride on track the protrudes from the legs/stretchers (instead of running on the stretches between the legs). This mean that the deadman will be able to slide all the way in front of the right leg. If I make the deadman no wider than the front leg (~5" IIRC), than when it is in front of the leg it will be completely out of the way. If I think a 5" wide deadman than I'll do as just described and make it so it can slide out of the way in front of the leg. If I think I want something wider, than I'll just pull it off when/if it gets in the way. Honestly though, I'm not too worried about it blocking the drawers since they can be so easily lifted out of place.

Yeah thats a great idea. I was thinking the legs will be flush with the top, just because a dead-man automaticaly made me think that.
I donnu about removing the dead-man on a regular basis.. that could get annoying if you use the drawers regularly, I guess it also depens how easy it slides. but why on earth would you want something more than 5" wide?.. I guess (almost sure) I'm missing somthing about it's use?

[Chris Griggs]

Y
I donnu about removing the dead-man on a regular basis.. that could get annoying if you use the drawers regularly, I guess it also depens how easy it slides.

They lift right off the track pretty easily, and should slide pretty easily as well. Really the only time a deadman would get in the way of the drawers (even if it was not removable), is if I wanted to get something out of a drawer while I was jointing something...I'm not super concerned about it.



why on earth would you want something more than 5" wide?.. I guess (almost sure) I'm missing something about it's use?

Don't know. Probably don't...but it needs to be wide enough to put a a bunch of holes in and still have enough "meat" around the holes to hold up...not that they take a lot of abuse, but one definitely wants a reasonable amount of wood between the holes. I'll need to have a piece of wood in front of me and lay out a hole pattern to figure out how wide I need it. I agree though, narrower is good...while its not a major concern to me, having the option to slide it out of the way certainly won't hurt.

[Mike Allen1010]

Congratulations Chris - your workbench looks awesome and I'm sure it's something you will enjoy using all the time! Thanks a lot for taking the time share the pictures, I really enjoyed following your thread.

Finishing your second workbench certainly puts you in rarefied company, however that doesn't mean I for one want to see your legs:)! Stout workbench legs with impressive M&T joinery yes, your hairy gams, not so much. However, I do look forward to another of your shop videos featuring your cats because… well who doesn't like cat videos? - I mean shop videos.

Cheers, Mike

[Chris Griggs]

Congratulations Chris - your workbench looks awesome and I'm sure it's something you will enjoy using all the time! Thanks a lot for taking the time share the pictures, I really enjoyed following your thread.

Finishing your second workbench certainly puts you in rarefied company, however that doesn't mean I for one want to see your legs:)! Stout workbench legs with impressive M&T joinery yes, your hairy gams, not so much. However, I do look forward to another of your shop videos featuring your cats because… well who doesn't like cat videos? - I mean shop videos.

Cheers, Mike


Hehe. Thanks buddy, I'm sure looking forward to using it. I'll see about making more cat videos.:)

[Graham Haydon]

Chris I want to see this bench but SMC does not always show the up to date thread? Am I being thick or doing something wrong? I would dearly love to see the finished article. I can only see up to 02 of April

[Chris Griggs]

Graham. Are you in Linear mode? If not, go up to the top of the page. Click the "display" dropdown and select Linear mode. Then everything will come up chronologically. The completed (well technically almost completed) pictures are on post #108 which should appear on page 8 of this thread once you are in Linear mode.

Jeez! Stop being so thick all the time Graham ;)

[Graham Haydon]

I can't Chris, Lord knows I've tried :D. The bench looks great and really pleasing to see a quick release vice on there. The second to last photo will keep me warm tonight :). Nice to see Napoleon Dynamite making an appearence on a woodworking forum too!

[Chris Griggs]

I can't Chris, Lord knows I've tried :D. The bench looks great and really pleasing to see a quick release vice on there. The second to last photo will keep me warm tonight :). Nice to see Napoleon Dynamite making an appearence on a woodworking forum too!


Glad to here that all of you wildest dreams have come true :-)



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qUvZ8ixAde4

[Graham Haydon]

I've lost count of how many times my wife and I have watched that film, I need to dust it off again!

[Chris Griggs]

Paul was kind enough to somehow load my bench into his van this weekend, drive it over to my house, and help me lug it down my very steep and narrow basement stairs (in two pieces...sure glad I made it knockdown!)

With the bench home, I began adding a few finishing touches.

I turned a nicer handle for the tail vise with some low profile ends/knobs. Then just for giggles, I stuck a simple molding profile on the edges of my front vise jaw. Lastly, I mixed up 50/50/ BLO and turpentine and gave the bench a nice soaking of the stuff (making the house reak of turpentine which did not make my wife happy!)

Still have some other finishing touches to do (dogs, deadman, holes etcc..) but those might need to wait until I finish up the current project I'm working on for my wife. Feels good to have it in the shop!

289658 289659 289660 289661

[Prashun Patel]

Really beautiful. Love following your threads, CG.

[Chris Griggs]

Really beautiful. Love following your threads, CG.

Thanks Buddy! You are too kind.

[Tom Vanzant]

Beautiful bench Chris.
With your leg to bench edge configuration, I'd lean toward a board jack instead of a sliding deadman. If you need to build a lower track 4" out from the stretcher and would park the deadman in front of the leg, that's no different than having flush legs and stretcher, right? Even if you remove the deadman, you'll still have the track at or near flush. OTOH, if you add a drawer unit, pull out a drawer to support the free end of the workpiece.

[Chris Griggs]

Beautiful bench Chris.
With your leg to bench edge configuration, I'd lean toward a board jack instead of a sliding deadman. If you need to build a lower track 4" out from the stretcher and would park the deadman in front of the leg, that's no different than having flush legs and stretcher, right? Even if you remove the deadman, you'll still have the track at or near flush. OTOH, if you add a drawer unit, pull out a drawer to support the free end of the workpiece.

Almost like having flush legs BUT...and this is the main reason I set the legs back....flush legs get in the way of dog holes and occasionally in the way of clamps (though I typically rely on holdfasts). It seems like a small thing , but I can't tell you how many times on my other bench the flush legs got the way of clamping and to much greater extent how many times I wished I had dogs holes where the leg was. I don't have any issues with the idea of the track sticking out a little, and I really like that a deadman will have some of the advantages of the big flush apron/flush legs I have grown used to, without the things about them that get on my nerves some times.

That said, I still could go either way, as far as the jack vs deadman is concerned. I'll probably use the bench some before I make up my mind and before I build either, I'd drill some holes in the front edge of the top. That alone with let me work edges well enough (albeit a little too high)

Thanks for the comments Tom!

[Judson Green]

Way to go Chris and Paul, my back's a little sore just looking at it... I'm sure you guys had a few sore back relievers, aka beers.

Looks good Chris I like your front vise not just the edging detail but also how you let it in.

[Frederick Skelly]

Looks like a million bucks Chris! Ill bet shes going to be sweet to work on.

Love the low profile handle and the molding!

Fred

[Archie England]

Hey Chris, what a bench!!!!!!

Awesome job! Glad I finally read through your build series.

Blessings,

Archie, near NOLA

[Chris Griggs]

Thanks Judson. I actually just inset the vise to eek an extra 1/2" of opening capacity out of it it, but I agree it did create a cool visual effect. Yeah, that thing was a pain to get down the stairs!

Thanks Fred! I'm really looking forward to working on it. I drill some peg holes in the front last night so I can edge joint with it now. I really need to drill the holdfast holes and make at least a coupe dogs so I can start using it.

Archie! Thanks for commenting! Hope NOLA's good these days. I miss our shop hang outs. Hope you are well!

[Brian Holcombe]

Looking good Chris! The table is right at home.

[Jeff Ranck]

Hi Chris:

I'm interested in the details of your tail vise. I've been thinking that I want a tail vise and not a wagon vise. I know you said you used Tom Nelson's design from Landis' book. I don't have the Landis book, so could you tell me what hardware you used? It looks like it might be the LV tail vise hardware (not the quick release one but the other one with the metal frame and plate). Is that what you used?

Jeff.

[Chris Griggs]

Looking good Chris! The table is right at home.

Thanks Brian!


Hi Chris:

I'm interested in the details of your tail vise. I've been thinking that I want a tail vise and not a wagon vise. I know you said you used Tom Nelson's design from Landis' book. I don't have the Landis book, so could you tell me what hardware you used? It looks like it might be the LV tail vise hardware (not the quick release one but the other one with the metal frame and plate). Is that what you used?

Jeff.

Hi Jeff. Yes I used the green hardware that LV sells: http://www.leevalley.com/US/Wood/page.aspx?p=31136&cat=1,41659

I just painted it black, becasue I didn't like the green.

[Jeff Ranck]

Thanks Brian!

I just painted it black, becasue I didn't like the green.

I hear that! IIRC, someone here had one of the green screw hardware kits and stripped the green off and did an baked oil finish on it. If I end up using that hardware, that is probably what I'll try.

Great bench btw, making me jealous. We've just moved into a new place and I now have a shop. A bench is my first order of business - as soon as I can figure out where to get a bit more 8/4 ash.

jeff.

[Chris Griggs]

I hear that! IIRC, someone here had one of the green screw hardware kits and stripped the green off and did an baked oil finish on it. If I end up using that hardware, that is probably what I'll try.

Great bench btw, making me jealous. We've just moved into a new place and I now have a shop. A bench is my first order of business - as soon as I can figure out where to get a bit more 8/4 ash.

jeff.

Yeah I saw that tail vise makeover. It was pretty neat. I definitively considered doing it, but ultimately didn't care enough to go through the trouble of stripping it. Black paint was good o' nuff for me.

Moving into a new place and getting a new space is great! I worked for several years without any dedicated shop space and then with a dedicated but impermanent space which is why my previous bench is a 5 1/2 ft long knockdown bench. Wife and I bought out first home about 9 months ago, and that meant it was time for a BIG BOY bench.

[ian maybury]

Hi Chris. Coming in late and am just (after a couple of years of looking at the material) starting my first bench myself. Re. your stepped back legs there's pics in a few places in the Landis book 'The Workbench Book' of sliding deadmen (?) with the lower rail stepped back in under the bench top - pages 32, 39, 103 - in some cases possibly to create foot room when the deadman extends more or less to the floor to maximise the space above for cabinets. The deadman doesn't have to be a flat board - they use either a curved return on the lower end (like a J), or a simple block attached to the rear of the main board to pick up the lower rail. Done right it has the potential to be the basis of very nice feature actually.

Possibly a way to combine a sliding deadman with your stepped back stretchers?

PS There's a phot of a nice example in post 226865 here by a guy named Rogacien - about half way down: http://www.lamortaise.com/forum/outils-manuels/226694-etabli-traditionnel

[Chris Griggs]

Hi Ian. I know the exact picture and benches you are speaking of. Those benches (along with Michael Fortune's) are more or less what I based the design of mine on. Yes, something like what you describe is exactly what I have in mind.

The Landis book is a fantastic book!