Buying new WW machines Saved my house from Fire ,maybe our lives

[Michael Mahan]

I bought a new MiniMax FS41 Jointer/Planer & a MiniMax MM20 Band Saw , plan on a SawStop PCS TS soon
I had to hire a electrical contractor to put in a sub panel for adding 120V & 240V lines into the Garage . The house is a old (1955) GI Bill spec house , single level on a foundation /crawl space , 2 car garage , 3 bedroom .
12 years ago I had a solar power system installed on the south roof area (4Kw) @ that time they added a new main panel & did away with 1955 fuse box .
Little did I know they put 20 amp breakers in place of the fuses , should have used 15 amp for my house wire size . one series of circuit was over head lights into the garage door way, laundryroom ,kitchen lights, dining room lights ,rear porch lite . all are over head lights on the run ,the run branched from the dining room on , I had added another outside light to the porch light . anyway when I had the garage light & power upgraded for the new machines . I asked if they could look at my Kitchen lights as they would flicker & one quit working years ago . they start looking for the failure & kept opening up the fixture boxes To find the they were getting hot & discolored , the one nearest to the branching dining room fixture the one above the stove the wire were burnt back 9 " to where they were just bare wire (they looked like blcck insulation but really was black from heat oxidation) , the Sheetrock above was black , baked & crumbly .
long story short had the 15 amps been inplace the run would have tripped when the wires overheated .
the Electrician was shocked to see how burnt the lighting fixture junction boxes were , he said we were a hair away from a major fire , he had never seen a junction/fixture box that bad . He was amazed that the bare wires weren't touching . He took a pix ,he said he had to show the "other guys" what really bad looks like .
Had I never bought those MiniMax machines , I would have never found this problem until the Fire Marshal did his post fire inspection :eek:

Next week they will re-wire the full run that is burnt & inspect the other runs as well , replace runs that are needed sailing back the 20 amp breakers to 15 amps . I'm also adding a dedicated 20 amp run to my home theater system .

My Wood Working hobby actually will have saved me from a huge disaster ;)

[Phil Thien]

Wow, it is amazing to think how close you were to a fire! You are so lucky you asked them to check it out!

[Stan Mitchell]

Makes you wonder how many other homes out there might have a similar issue.

Much of the do-it-yourself homeowner "improvements" that were in my current home had to re-done properly once I took possession. No electrical issues in my case though.

[Bernie May]

We all have to tell our partners that we need to spend $10,000 today on new tools to save our homes from a fire. Hey, Dear, you know what we need to do..... NOT !!!!!

[Jeff Fischer]

I have rebuilt several houses after electrical fires, I'm a insurance restoration contractor, and I have found exactly what you described. A recent project had black stripes across the ceiling joists where the homeruns crossed from overheated wires, and all the junction boxes had burnt connections in them. The main line to the hvac was the one that finally caught the ceiling joist on fire.
You are very lucky to have dodged that bullet.
Better go buy a lottery ticket, LOL!
Jeff

[Mikhail Lermontov]

I can't count how many times I used to work with such the bad wiring in multi apartment buildings. I rolled all the wires up with electrical tape and carefully placed them all back. Only once seen customers decided to upgrade their bad wiring.

[Roy Turbett]

I found a similar issue in a turn of the century house I currently rehabbing where previous owners spiced into the knob and tube wiring whenever they wanted to add an outlet or a light. To make matters worse they covered the knob and tube wiring with insulation that eliminated the air flow that is necessary to keep the wires cool. I found multiple locations in the attic where the joists were charred and one in the kitchen wall.

[Rich Riddle]

Did the contractor who installed the breakers not have their work inspected?

[Michael Mahan]

Did the contractor who installed the breakers not have their work inspected?
Yeah it was inspected Sorta !
I was there at the time when the solar system was inspected by the City, new woman inspector , she looked at the new main panel & said 'yeah looks good ' & then quickly signed off on the permit . She was at the house a full 5 minutes at the most .
She never even looked at the rectifiers , the power transfer panel , any of the connections , the new ground rod installed , never walked around to back of the house to even look at the roof where the solar panel arrays themselves were/are mounted .
Heck, I never knew about 15 amp vs 20 amp with relation to wire size till just recently .

[Jim Andrew]

I used to have a neighbor who was an electrician. He was good at explaining his work, so I was able to talk to him about my wiring as I was rehabing my shop building. The old panel was obsolete and he explained how exactly to replace it without having the power turned off. The power company had put in a policy of charging you for a service call if you wanted to pull the meter and reset it. He advised me how to wire the entire shop, as to individual machines and all. Think I'd rather have a good electrician than an inspector. I've seen some awful carpenter work that was passed by inspectors. One time I asked the inspector why the guy next door could get by with such poor work, that would not have passed on my job, and he told me straight faced "You have the ability".

[Carroll Courtney]

I think this is one of those rare times to say Congratulations on that misforture,that was a very close call-----Carroll

[Richard Wolf]

You better keep buying machines, maybe something else will show up.

[Ruhi Arslan]

A couple of years ago, I've canceled and got my "deposit" back from a 12KW solar system when I suspected the project electrician (engineer) to work in my project had no clue how to deal with an existing 3-phase panel I have. They did not even believe I had 3-phase fir till I demanded he must come and see himself. When he said "don't worry, we'll figure out something", it was time to call it quits for me. Turns out there are specific 3-phase solar power transfer switches. He had no clue... There were other issues too but the crux of the problem for me was their lack of knowledge necessary to design the integration of the two electrical systems.

[Jim Finn]

I had a similar story at my former house. The house was only six years old when I took the circuit box cover off to make some wiring changes and found a bunch of (about ten) white wires burned black. I called the electrician that built the house and he came out and replaced all the burned wires and left without explaining to me what the cause was.

[Paul McGaha]

Overheating at the light fixture locations (both the wiring and the drywall) was probably caused by using light bulbs in excess of what the incandescent light fixture was rated for.

I came across a house like that some years ago when I was doing residential electrical service work. It took a lot of work to get it all fixed, New light fixtures, some drywall repair, some wiring repair. It probably was just a matter of time before a fire would have started.

As incandescent light fixtures and lamps are being phased out of service I would hope this is a thing of the past but if you are still using incandescent lamps and fixtures in your house please follow the lamp rating on the fixture.

[Michael Mahan]

Overheating at the light fixture locations (both the wiring and the drywall) was probably caused by using light bulbs in excess of what the incandescent light fixture was rated for.

I came across a house like that some years ago when I was doing residential electrical service work. It took a lot of work to get it all fixed, New light fixtures, some drywall repair, some wiring repair. It probably was just a matter of time before a fire would have started.

As incandescent light fixtures and lamps are being phased out of service I would hope this is a thing of the past but if you are still using incandescent lamps and fixtures in your house please follow the lamp rating on the fixture.
that wasn't the case of using too big a incandescent bulb , I've used CFFL's for 16 years now in every fixture in the house & I am now migrating to LED . As for the why of it all the electrician said it could be different factors & the damage was so bad he couldn't pin point it . He also said this could have been a bad install 58 years ago that just was getting worse as time wore on . all the taped connections the black tape was melted to some degree in all fixtures & switches . The oxidation on some wires was so thick that he had to sand the wire to get a reading on his meter , He said that shows that the problem was many years in the making .
this was a install before they used wire nuts .

[Ole Anderson]

I have been helping my son rehab a 1970 home for rental where the previous owners did all sorts of strange things. I found two circuits that had 20 amp breakers on 14 gauge wire circuits. To top it off it was an old Federal Pacific panel, notorious for problems. New 15 amp FPE breakers, made by a third party as FPE is out of business, were almost $35 each.

[Paul McGaha]

that wasn't the case of using too big a incandescent bulb , I've used CFFL's for 16 years now in every fixture in the house & I am now migrating to LED . As for the why of it all the electrician said it could be different factors & the damage was so bad he couldn't pin point it . He also said this could have been a bad install 58 years ago that just was getting worse as time wore on . all the taped connections the black tape was melted to some degree in all fixtures & switches . The oxidation on some wires was so thick that he had to sand the wire to get a reading on his meter , He said that shows that the problem was many years in the making .
this was a install before they used wire nuts .

Damaged wiring and drywall at the fixture locations really sounds like the fixtures over heating to be Mike. This could have been done by a previous owner of the house.

I'm not sure when it became a standard practice to use wire nuts to insulate a splice. I got into the electrical trade in 1977 and wire nuts were certainly in use then and I think had been for several years.

I'm sure you and your electricians will get to the bottom of it.

I'm glad the problem didn't result in a fire in your house.

Congratulations on all the new Mini-Max gear.

PHM

[Michael Mahan]

That's the odd thing was the light socket wires looked fine , the inside of the fixture was fine , the fixtures themselves were not showing any heat damage , the one junction box above the fixture was actually black from the heat & the heat was radiating downward.
the paint that was peeled away from the sheet rock was still white but the sheet rock that under the paint was dark brown & black under the paint . If the fixture was over heating then the reverse would be happening & the heat would have damage going up .
In any case , I was glad it was caught when it was , I had a hard time sleeping last night , going over & over the "what if's" in my mind .
I've opened up boxes before & even when the solar system went in all the wire connections are wrapped in black tape