Looking for advice on applying and patinizing metal leaf

[Brian Brown]

For Christmas, my wife got me a copy of DJ Marks video on metal leafing. I have always wanted to try it, but after watching the vid, I have more questions than I started with. There is a lot of good information on the vid, but for the most part it seems to be a teaser to get you to take his classes. He describes an oil based sizing (adhesive) that takes 3 hours to come to tack, and is then is open for 3 more hours for leafing, but he never said who makes it, or where to get it. I bought the Mona Lisa starter kit made by Speedball. It came with a red undercoat, water based size, glazing, sealer, and Some Dutch metal gold leaf (fake gold). I also bought some real copper leaf. The instructions were terrible. They said the size would come to tack in 20 min, but gave no working time, or how long it would take to set. I applied the size to a turned piece, and it came to tack in about 4 min. I applied the metal leaf (copper) and for the most part it stuck well, but a lot of edge areas did not adhere well. The leaf came off easily when I was trying to brush away the excess. Now, I am waiting to fix the damaged areas, and patinize the copper. I am looking to get a blue color to the copper when it is finished. I have no source for small quantities of the chemicals Marks described in the video, so I tried some household acids to see what would happen. I put some copper leaf on a small sample of wood, and applied Toilet bowl cleaner (hydrochloric acid) lemon juice (citric acid) white vinegar (4%-5% acetic acid) and glacial acetic acid (100%). The Toilet bowl cleaner changed the copper very slightly to a pinker color. The others had little or no effect on the metal. That was 5 days ago, and there has still been no change. I am not really crazy about the bright shiny metal look, and would really like to get an aged and oxidized look to the metal. I really like the look of the metal on Mark's work.

I searched this and other forums for information, but found very little. So here are my questions... lots of them.

So here are my questions... lots of them.

1. What is a good source for the chemicals?
Cupric Nitrate/Ammonium Chloride
Barium Sulfide
Potash sulferated
Sodium Sulfide

2. Do the chemicals require neutralizing after the process is finished?
3. Will the metal continue to change after a sealer is put over it?
4. What brand of oil based size does Marks use, and where do I get it?
5. What is the best sealer for the finished work?
6. Do some or all patinized areas blister up and leave a texture like rust, or are they smooth?
7. How long do the patinizing chemicals take to achieve results?
8. What is the best chemical to quickly turn copper to blue or blue green?
9. Are there other reasonably safe and easily obtainable chemicals that can create other color combinations?
10. What method(s) do you use to apply the chemicals?


I'm sure that the answers to these questions will just bring up more, but at least it's a start.

[John Keeton]

Brian, David Marks gets his chemicals from www.artchemicals.com (http://www.artchemicals.com). David did a chat session on another forum and I have the text of that session. The late Jeff Myroup, a creeker, did some beautiful work on platters, along with outstanding pyro work, and Jeff provided a bunch of information to me, as well.

If you will send me a PM with your email address, I will send you some info that should answer your questions.

[Thom Sturgill]

In addition to the video on 'Gilding and Chemical Patinations', which I bought after seeing his talk at Tampa, David did a DIY-network show 'Woodworks' for a few years and he is now selling the DVDs of those. He did several shows on Gilding and Patination on that series. At his site DJMARKS.COM you can watch free youtube videos and download individual 'WoodWorks' episodes ($10 ea.) I also tried looking up chemistry sets and supplies for home and found a home teaching supply house (http://www.hometrainingtools.com/chemicals/c/134/) that has at least some of the chemicals in small quantities.

[Dale Gillaspy]

I agree with what has been said above. As for the adhesive size, the set time really depends on the brand, and a lot to do with weather and humidity. It sounds like you rushed it a little bit if it didn't adhere well. I also let mine sit for several hours before I brush off the excess to avoid rubbing too much off. To neutralize, blot with a dry paper towel.

Art Chemicals actually has a David Marks Kit. It comes with size, chemicals, leaf, a few brushes and tools, and an instruction booklet. I actually found this more helpful than the video. It tells you what individual chemicals will do to the different metals.

The patinas are smooth, not raised. The kit comes with a sealer, but I usually use spray lacquer, and this seals the metal from the wood, preventing further oxidation.

[Dave Mueller]

Brian,
Regarding the chemicals, the sodium sulfide (be sure it is sulfide, not sulfite or sulfate) can be purchased from Scientific Equipment of Houston through Amazon at http://www.amazon.com/SEOH-Sodium-Sulfide-Fused-Flake/dp/B00BR6QSXY/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1391118603&sr=8-3&keywords=sodium+sulfide. It is harder to find and not always available at art chemicals. Potash sulfurated can also be bought from them as well. Amazon sells Cupric nitrate and ammonium chloride. Buy the cheapest grade but not as a solution, since some like sodium sulfide are not stable in solution long term.

After patination, the chemicals do not have to be neutralized, since drying them stops the process and will stay stopped as long as the metal is dry. Some metals (dutch metal and real silver) will oxidize from the air over time. All patination colors are very thin films, much thinner than the metal foil, and are easily scratched. To prevent this, overcoat with several thin coats of a clear spray such as Krylon Crystal Clear Coating #1303 (Lowes). Unfortunately, this will change the color of the patination and you will lose much of the blues and greens, especially on dutch metal.

David uses ArtChemicals Quick Dry Gilding Size (http://www.artchemicals.com/Leaf_Adhesive_Quick_Dry_Oil_Based_Size_p/808181020.htm). It will reach tack in 30 - 60 minutes and remain tacky for the same time. However, it will dry very quickly (a few minutes) if used on unsealed wood.

I apply chemicals with cotton or a natural sea sponge dampened with the chemical. The variegation comes from the differences in chemical contact, and like David, I have also used crumpled tissue paper that is painted with the chemical using a brush. Just don't apply chemicals uniformly or apply so much that it runs (the runs will patinate darker and show). The time required to reach a specific color will vary with concentration and temperature. I do it outside and find that it works better in the sunlight or warmed with a heat gun.

Sodium sulfide will turn copper orange, then red, then blue and finally black. I believe cupric nitrate and ammonium chloride will turn it blue, as will vinegar and table salt.

You can PM me if you want to discuss this further.

Dave

[Brian Brown]

Thanks to all of you who answered my laundry list of questions. I got a little slammed at work, and I can't believe it has been 2 weeks since I asked. Now that I can come up for air, I have had time to read and start digesting the answers. I am anxious to try some of these patination techniques. Time to order some chemicals. It may take some time (a couple of months) until I get some positive results, but if they aren't too embarrassing, I'll post them here. Thanks again for the help.