Trotec Speedy 300 Review - A Twisted Engineer's Perspective

[Dan Hintz]

Although the paper is not near being ready as of this writing, I've received too many requests to get off of my duff and post it already. So, here it is, in unfinished form:
http://www.hi-tecdesigns.com/images/general/Speedy_300_CO2_Laser_Review.pdf

I can't say enough, this is not in final form, nor is it complete. I have left placeholders for info I still need to fill in. As I do so, I will post to this thread whenever I have a new edition uploaded, but the link above should always take you to the latest edition.

Also note, as of this writing, this is Part I of a multi-part review. Part I covers everything from shipping/unloading to my overall view of the system and the accessories in an unused state (well, it will once I'm finished with it). Part II will cover actual use of the machine, any foibles I come across, the job control software, etc. I expect part II to cover a lot of ground.

Enjoy!

NOTE: This version uses the updated footers. It shouldn't happen, but if you are still seeing my website in the footers, let me know so I can fix it ASAP.

[Dave Sheldrake]

Great read :) cheers Dan

cheers

Dave

[Ken Fitzgerald]

Dan,

One more thing if I may. Once you have finished the review would you please take the time to upload to this thread at SMC? The reason being, if for some reason, the link ever becomes invalid, this thread then becomes less valuable to those who might gain information from your review.

Thanks,

[Jason Hilton]

Great review so far, glad I finally got the chance to read it!

[Glen Monaghan]

Dan,

Just looked through the draft and noted:

Chapter 6 Accessories and Add-ons
...
• Cutting Table (a.k.a. Vector Table)
• Vector Table

That 2nd Vector Table probably should be Vacuum Table


Chapter 6.4 Air Assist
...
Not only does air assist help mitigate flare-ups, co-axial air provides an
air curtain around the optics to keep them clean.

I have no experience with co-axial air but have read numerous threads here about people having problems with their cones. Apparently, you should never use the cone without air assist turned on and I have the impression that, even with air on, some people complain that it sets up a venturi-type effect that can cause lens fouling. Also, I wonder how much of a nuisance it is to keep installing and removing the cone as you switch between jobs that need and don't use air assist. Is your statement about co-axial air based on your actual experience with lens cones, or a repeat of sales literature? Any qualms about the cones?


Chapter 7.2 The Lid
...
the only thing preventing you becoming friends with a lead dog is the lid.

When I saw "lead dog" I mentally pictures a pewter-colored metal dog, which made me think of Monopoly (but I digress :^). Perhaps I live too sheltered a life, but I've never heard of the sort of service dog I think you mean called a lead dog before. Guide dog?

[Rodne Gold]

Good so far DAN... waiting to see the performance results :)
Glen
I leave air assist on for every job , barring cerdec as the cerdec can flake off..(and barring stuff the air assist would blow around , like paper)
As to vortices , my GCC machines dont generate them with air assist and their nozzle implementation, but my chinese laser does , in all probability correct radiusing of the exit hole would put an end to that...

[Khalid Nazim]

Dan,

Thank you very much for putting the time and effort in penning your experiences down. I can't wait for the next update. You have a flair for writing :)

Regards
Khalid

[Khalid Nazim]

One more thing. I was watching Iron Man 3 yesterday and saw a Trotec in the background in one of the shots (http://troteclaserinc.blogspot.com/2013/05/trotec-lasers-iron-man-approved.html)

Dan Hintz = Tony Stark ??

[David Somers]

Glen,

For those of us who were sled dogs in a previous life....if you aren't the lead dog in the sled team (the first dog) then the view to the front is the same no matter what position you are in.

<grin>

[Dan Hintz]

Just looked through the draft and noted:

Chapter 6 Accessories and Add-ons
...
• Cutting Table (a.k.a. Vector Table)
• Vector Table

That 2nd Vector Table probably should be Vacuum Table
Fixed. Thank you.


Chapter 6.4 Air Assist
...
Not only does air assist help mitigate flare-ups, co-axial air provides an
air curtain around the optics to keep them clean.

I have no experience with co-axial air but have read numerous threads here about people having problems with their cones. Apparently, you should never use the cone without air assist turned on and I have the impression that, even with air on, some people complain that it sets up a venturi-type effect that can cause lens fouling. Also, I wonder how much of a nuisance it is to keep installing and removing the cone as you switch between jobs that need and don't use air assist. Any qualms about the cones?
These are good questions, Glen, and I will make an effort to clarify my points in the next revision. In a nutshell, however, there is a difference between how the different companies use air for either/or cutting improvement or optics protection. ULS uses air the proper way, IMO, and my first look at Trotec says they do the same (though I need to verify a few points once I get the side cover off).


Is your statement about co-axial air based on your actual experience with lens cones, or a repeat of sales literature?
I separated this comment out as I wanted to make it very clear; any comments I make (unless otherwise specified) are based upon my actual use of a product. I learned long ago that sales literature is meant to generate a sale, not necessarily point out reality... a good company won't lie, but they can very easily paint a rosy picture that doesn't hold water come application time. One good example is the vector versus engraving time Scott "Steve" Sheperd has discussed many times over the last few months when comparing various machines from different companies. The facts provided by the companies aren't "wrong", but they may require specific circumstances to be "right". I am trying to separate fantasy from reality whenever possible, but obviously I can't cover every scenario, so the reader will have to make an educated guess based upon what I have written.


Chapter 7.2 The Lid
...
the only thing preventing you becoming friends with a lead dog is the lid.

When I saw "lead dog" I mentally pictures a pewter-colored metal dog, which made me think of Monopoly (but I digress :^). Perhaps I live too sheltered a life, but I've never heard of the sort of service dog I think you mean called a lead dog before. Guide dog?
<chuckle> Fair enough. Fixed.

Dan Hintz = Tony Stark ??

I'm not sayin' a word... :p

[Mike Null]

Dan

I don't share your apprehension about the lid. I rather think it's made of polycarbonate instead of acrylic but haven't researched that. (mine is 5/16" rather than 1/4") In any event, after 7 years mine still looks like new even with the occasional use as an assembly table as you mentioned. After 7 years the gas cylinders are operating like new whereas I had to replace the ones on my ULS after about 5 years. It seems that the ULS lid was glass (heavier) thus putting more stress on the cylinders.

[Dan Hintz]

I just received notice that my rotary has shipped, so I should be able to add a more "hands on" review of it to the doc in the next few weeks.

[Scott Shepherd]

I just received notice that my rotary has shipped, so I should be able to add a more "hands on" review of it to the doc in the next few weeks.

You do realize that by "Hands On", they mean actually plugging it in, not just touching it, right? :p

Dan, you're killing me man, killing me. FIRE THAT PUPPY UP!!!!!!!!!!!! Don't make me drive up there.....

[Dan Hintz]

Dan, you're killing me man, killing me. FIRE THAT PUPPY UP!!!!!!!!!!!! Don't make me drive up there.....

The beer will be cold and waiting for ya :D

[Jason Hilton]

I'm with Scott, how can you resist playing with your new toy!??

[Dan Hintz]

What makes you guys think I'm not? ;)

[Jason Hilton]

Pics or it didn't happen! :P

[Don Corbeil]

Great read, Dan... The speedy 300 is one of the systems I'm looking at as a first time purchase, and this review offers some helpful technical specifics.
I'm looking forward to your rotary review when you get it up and running. You mentioned that the rotary design was a big factor in a previous decision process, to go ULS over epilog because of the chuck option. Given that the trotec offers both chuck and roller, I'd be curious of the differences between the ULS and trotec chuck system performance, if any.

[Dan Hintz]

I was dinking around with the review early this morning, but I won't get any real time until tonight to write more. The rotary is supposed to arrive Monday, so hopefully some time appears to play with it before the weekend.

[Keith Outten]

I'm not aware that Trotec offers a chuck on their rotary attachment. I have one and I got both the cones and the rollers but no chuck was available at the time.
This link shows a table of options.

http://www.troteclaser.com/en-US-US/Laser-Machines/Accessories/Options/Pages/Rotary-Attachment.aspx

[Mike Null]

I agree with Keith, there is no chuck.

[Don Corbeil]

I agree with Keith, there is no chuck.

Oh, I see.. I was confusing a chuck with a cone.

[Mike Null]

Don

I think Keith and I are referring to a chuck along the line of something you'd fit to a lathe and would be adjustable.

[Keith Outten]

A small drill chuck would be a great option on the drive side of the Trotec rotary. It would give you a means of adapting to a wide variety of jobs. For the record I searched every resource on the Internet for a chuck or an adapter that would fit the Trotec rotary attachment and didn't find anything that would work.

[Dan Hintz]

A small drill chuck would be a great option on the drive side of the Trotec rotary. It would give you a means of adapting to a wide variety of jobs. For the record I searched every resource on the Internet for a chuck or an adapter that would fit the Trotec rotary attachment and didn't find anything that would work.

My intent is to retrofit a light chuck onto my rotary... I have one in mind already, so you can expect a write-up on it.

[Dan Hintz]

Rotary came in today... what a freakin' beast! It weighs over 30 pounds! Maybe my memory has gone soft, but I do not remember my ULS rotary weighing nearly that (if anyone out there has a ULS rotary, I'd appreciate a weight for the review).

[Tony Lenkic]

ULS rotary weights just under 9 lbs,

[David Somers]

30lbs? Really? Why? Vibration damping? Avoiding the need for an attachment to the table? A secret agreement with the Shipping Company who charges by weight?

Seriously though....This must be a large unit for a machine the size of the 300? What diameter and length object can it handle? I don't think the tailstock on my wood lathe weighs that much! Yow!

I hope you are rigging a ceiling mounted motorized gantry hoist to allow you to move this sucker in and out of the machine without herniating disks every time?

<grin> Dave

[Dan Hintz]

My apologies to everyone for not posting a new version (the multiple PMs and thread posts aren't being ignored, I assure you). I have been slammed at work putting together a few presentations, so what "free" time I have lately gets spent on research PowerPoint slides :-/

While I have not uploaded a new version yet, my copy has been updated to include text/pics on the shipping crate, and I'm spending a lot of frustrating time getting pictures and captions situated (it used to be so easy in Word to add a caption while still allowing for resizing/moving the pic... now it has to all be included in a text box, with a slew of tedious steps each time, and resizing after the fact is nigh impossible). A section was added for the focus tool, too.

I hope you guys will like what I have to add... and watch this space for an update on when a new version has been uploaded.

Thanks!

[Don Corbeil]

Dan,

No apologies necessary :)
We know you have a business to run, on top of all your contributions here on the forum.
Looking forward to your updates, whenever you have them ready.

[Keith Winter]

Congrats on the new Speedy 300 Dan!

[Mark Ward]

The dimensions of the Speedy 300 it says are: 1090 x 890 x 590.
Now a standard door size width in the UK is about 762mm but the width of the Speedy 300 is 890mm. Does the fan(?) part that sticks out of the back of the machine come off to make it smaller to get through a door or am I going to have to be making a wider door way for it?! :)

[Dan Hintz]

You flip it on its side to get it through doorways, Mark. Or in my case, you make use of your previous demo work from installing a CNC machine where you rip off the entire door casing/framework and use a jigsaw to cut a wide hole along one side ;)

That fan part is actually the laser cartridge and you generally don't want to remove it... doing so means you'll have to realign the beam, and that's not a fast process.

[Mark Ward]

Aaah good thinking. I currently have a builder in now putting up a stud wall and was about to ask him to make the doorway 900mm just so I could get it in :D

I presume that 2/3 blokes should be able to lift the machine between us then (quickly just doing a few more press ups), your reference of needing an engine hoist has me slightly worried :)

[Jiten Patel]

Mark, a 300 should be able to be lifted with 3 people. I managed to to it when we have a loaner 300. Now the 400, that's a different ball game. We have 6 guys, and one of the them looked like he was going to have a heart attack and S&*% himself at the same time. It's a heavy beast.

[Mark Ward]

Jit, I hope you took the "overseeing" role when the 400 got delivered then, ha!

[Jiten Patel]

I didn't pay all that for a machine to carry it! Not a chance! That's like me paying my staff and doing their job!

[Mark Ward]

Well my Speedy 300 has been delivered today, it's an absolute beast. Just before I call in the back up to help me with moving it I wondered if I'd missed anything "easy" that can be removed to save weight. I have taken off the glass lid and also the metal front and unscrewed the machine from the base, is there any other weight saving I can do that isn't going to compromise or invalidate anything? I can't spot anything myself but thought it worth asking just on the off chance!
My back is already aching at the thought of the lift to come :(

[David Somers]

Mark,

Could you run down to a rental shop and grab a hand truck? Then you are only trying to lift it straight up long enough for the truck tines to get under it.
hopefully you aren't talking about going up stairs? If so, use straps to help keep your backs upright?
284650

[Mike Null]

Dave

They have to lift and rotate it 90 degrees to an upright position to mount it on the trolley. 3 men are the proper tool.:)

[Mark Ward]

I played it safe and got 3 mates round, it wasn't too bad with 4 of us, all nicely through the door and back on the trolley again now.

[John Bion]

Hi Dan,
Perhaps I am blind - but I can't find an updated version of your report. Have you done one or are work pressures still on the boil? Looking forward to reading it when finished. I had an interesting couple of hours with Trotec today, very tempting but the ££££ signs flashing before my eyes like an '80s retro sign will keep me awake for the next two nights :)
Kind regards,
John

[Dan Hintz]

John,

I have not posted an updated version yet, awaiting some free time. Actually, I handed in my resignation earlier this morning, so I will have a couple of weeks of "free time" before I start my new position. Of course, taxes are due smack dab in the middle of that, so we'll see where life leads me. I could post a more recent revision, but I don't think the amount of changes in it are worth getting people excited about it yet.

I'm also deciding if I want to include my initial list of software bugs/annoyances in this one, but I will likely hold off on those for part II.

[John Bion]

I'm also deciding if I want to include my initial list of software bugs/annoyances in this one, but I will likely hold off on those for part II.
HI Dan,
thanks for your reply. Well... I do hope your resignation went well - these sort of things can sometimes go a bit south :(. I also hope the new position does you well.
Your comment re: software will be very interesting. That is just the sort of nitty gritty report we are all waiting for.

If you have a tax ‘problem' you ought to have bought the Speedy 500 not the 300 :)

Kind Regards, John

[Scott Shepherd]

Dan make sure you're running 10.2. It fixed a lot of minor bugs in 10.1.