Hide Glue

[Ryan Griffey]

I switched to hide glue about a year ago and I'm happy with the results. However, I'm looking for an option when I haven't warmed the pot. Currently I'm still using yellow glue for spot duty. Any suggestions from other hide glue users?

[Roy Lindberry]

I switched to hide glue about a year ago and I'm happy with the results. However, I'm looking for an option when I haven't warmed the pot. Currently I'm still using yellow glue for spot duty. Any suggestions from other hide glue users?

Titebond makes a liquid hide glue. It still flows better when warmed, but I've been using it with wonderful results.

[Daniel Kratville]

I've used Old Brown Glue and it works well in my limited experience.

[lowell holmes]

A top removed coke can in a pot of boiling water will make up a small amount of hide glue quickly. I don't have a glue pot. When I use hide glue, I use the flakes and make a fresh batch.

[george wilson]

I use a gravy bottle to mix and store hide glue in the refrigerator. It will last several days there. I have a nice glue pot that I keep clean by putting the bottle in water I heat in the glue pot. I keep empty bottles on hand since I throw the away when the glue turns putrid.

[Bob Glenn]

I bought a mini crock pot for four bucks and it tested 140 degrees with a candy thermometer on the low setting. I fill it with water and let it warm up while my glue flakes are soaking in the bottom of a plastic drinking cup. I cut a hole in an old license plate that friction fits around the cup so it dangles in the hot water. After glue up, I just throw the cup away.

[george wilson]

In a test of glues years ago in Fine Woodworking,liquid hide glue was found to be stronger than regular hide glue. I prefer the real stuff for guitar making as it gets very hard and transmits sound better.

[Mel Fulks]

Bob, I've wondered how glue pots could be so expensive when crock pots are so cheap .

[george wilson]

They don't make as many. Plus,they are made of metal,and better made. Their thermostats are more adjustable. They have a removable inner liner with a wire bale on it. Many use crock pots. Just don't get glue too hot or the protein will cook like an egg,and be useless. I use 130º. I think 140º is pushing it too much.

You can use Knox unflavored gelatin to make a glue that is very nearly invisible(the glue line) on blonde hard maple. Lyon and Healey harps use it. Their joints are exceedingly fine.

[Mel Fulks]

Yeah,I'm sure they are made better. Seen some real old ones still working . Some of the crock pots don't have temp numbers but kitchen thermometer is pretty cheap. I bought my HOLD-HEET at a yard sale for a dollar . They were going to throw it away .

[george wilson]

If I didn't already have a nice glue pot,I might be using a crock pot. They cost so much! But,they do have a very handsome if simple look to them. I'd probably break down and buy one anyway.

[Mel Fulks]

Oops. Glue pot is STA-WARM not the name I posted before. No wonder I can't get any endorsement deals !

[Jim Matthews]

I keep my bottle of Liquid Hide glue in the refrigerator.

When I want some, I "nuke" it enough to flow out of the bottle,
and then heat the pour until it's like pancake batter.

Works for me.

[Ryan Griffey]

I was mostly looking for something that is grab and use. I've tried the titebond hide glue. I have to put the heat gun to it and it stinks. Which I have heard is the sign of bad glue.

Right now I'm using the flakes and storing the leftovers. Occasionally I need something quick. Or I just need a small amount. I think I will try some of the Old Brown Glue.

[Jessica Pierce-LaRose]

I was mostly looking for something that is grab and use. I've tried the titebond hide glue. I have to put the heat gun to it and it stinks. Which I have heard is the sign of bad glue.

Right now I'm using the flakes and storing the leftovers. Occasionally I need something quick. Or I just need a small amount. I think I will try some of the Old Brown Glue.

The Titebond hide glue is a bit stinky, and doesn't flow as well if it's cold, (but I haven't found the need to heat it up too much more than setting the bottle within a couple of feet of the heating vent) but the big issue for me has been finding bottles that aren't close to expiry - they have dates stamped on them some where, and they must not move much of it at the local hardware stores, because I've found bottles a year past that date on the shelves. When it's not old, it seems to work okay. I appreciate the long open time.

[John Coloccia]

http://www.frets.com/FretsPages/Luthier/Technique/Glue/UseHideGlue/usehideglue1.html

[george wilson]

Just try a test of the expired liquid hide glue. If it is bad,it will not dry hard. If it is good,it will "Dry hard with a vengeance" and you can make a movie out of it!!:)

[John Coloccia]

"Dry hard with a vengeance"

http://www.freesmileys.org/smileys/smiley-laughing025.gif (http://www.freesmileys.org/smileys.php)

[Jessica Pierce-LaRose]

That pun is hilarious.

And that's exactly what happened when I used some Titebond that either expired or went through some freeze-thaw cycles. It never quite dried. Weeks later, it was still sticky.

[Robert LaPlaca]

I mostly use hot hide glue, but in a pinch I have use Olde Brown glue also, it works well but sometimes to get it to flow well it still needs to be warmed up a bit. The Olde Brown glue has a date stamped on the bottle, plus it's pretty easy to know when it has gone bad, by the really bad smell..

[george wilson]

To freeze glue tis death!! When I was young,I had to work in an unheated garage. My glue froze and was ruined. After that,I kept it indoors.

[george wilson]

I challenge all of you: Who would be the hero of "Dry hard with a vengeance?" I have an answer,but will wait to see what you come up with.

[John Coloccia]

Have you tried freezing freshly mixed hot hide glue, George? It actually works quite well. I pour a batch into ice cube trays, and pop out a cube or two when I need it.

[george wilson]

I have not frozen it. I am a little concerned that it might hurt the protein,but perhaps not. If you have used it thus it must work well. What about dehydration? Ice will dehydrate over time. We used to put our laundry out on the clothesline to freeze dry in Alaska. I could fold the frozen dried sheets and they would be like they were ironed. I would want to protect the glue from dehydration if I were to freeze it.

[george wilson]

No guesses as to the hero of the movie? I suggest he would have to have good GLUEts.

[John Coloccia]

I only keep the glue in there for about a month or so. Read the article I posted. I stole the idea from Frank Ford. I figured if HE uses it, it must work well :) It's just too hard to mix up a small batch accurately. I mix up a medium batch, and freeze off what I don't use. 1/2 the time I use it later for something...the other half, I just throw it out. Hide glue is cheap enough that I don't worry about it. I buy it in bulk from TFWW and it's really not very expensive at all. It's about $40 for 5lbs of 192 gram strength, and 5lbs lasts a LONG time for instrument building.

[John Coloccia]

I challenge all of you: Who would be the hero of "Dry hard with a vengeance?" I have an answer,but will wait to see what you come up with.

It's an all star cast, George:

Tom Glues
Sean Joinery
Gerard Depargleux

[george wilson]

It's not the cost,it's the convenience factor that you and I are trying to improve. Perhaps freezing the glue in small plastic prescription medicine containers? I wouldn't try glass. It might burst when the glue freezes.

[John Coloccia]

I pour it into an ice cube tray, and pop out a cube when I need it :) The first time I did it, my wife panicked. "Why is our water so dirty?????". Ha ha...don't use the dirty ice cubes.

[Tony Zaffuto]

I used a crock pot for years, and would still be using it, except early last summer it quit heating. I bought a "Sav-Heat" (think that's the name, but it is the one sold by Highland Hardware and TFWW. Worth it, as far as I'm concerned. I tend to estimate the amount of glue I need, make about 1-1/2 times that amount and end up through a little bit away at the end of the job (stuff is cheap and easy to make). I would really consider the heating vessel!

For small glue-ups, I use Titebond II.

[george wilson]

BTW,have you tried to buy an ice cube tray lately? Even Lowe's does not sell them. "All our fridges make cubes automatically". I don't use that feature because I use filtered water. What a pain to find one. My wife found some at the Dollar Store. They are so flimsy,they sag when filled and nearly spill the water.

[Jessica Pierce-LaRose]

We bought some terrible flimsy ones at the grocery store; that was no good, so we bought some at a fancy kitchen supply store in town. (They have some really nice knives, too, but we mostly go there for the CO2 for our seltzer maker) We saw the same thing cheaper later on at Bed Bath and Beyond. I like the rubbery kind, because sooner or later the plastic kind break. We had an old metal one with the "flippers" for the longest time, but I don't know what the heck happened too it. I should ask my wife, now that I think about it.

[John Coloccia]

Check antique stores. That's where I got my "church key" style bottle opener. I got tired of paying for bottle openers that only worked once or twice, and were made of such horrible metal that they immediately start to bend and become useless. My mom has the same one she had when I was growing up. One day, I went to the antique store and found a whole box of them. I grabbed one for $.25. That was 7 years ago. :)

[Chad Ashton]

Newb question of the day....why hide glue? Is it better than wood glue or is it just taking traditional woodworking one step further?

[Jessica Pierce-LaRose]

The biggest advantage of hide glue, either hot or bottled is it's easily reversible if you screw up or need to repair vintage furniture, or remove squeeze out you missed. Traditional hot hide glue has the advantage of very quick setting, for joints that aren't overly stressed, you can do a "rub joint" and glue up two boards without clamps. Bottled liquid hide glue has the advantage of a long open time allowing you to plenty of time to put together carcase pieces without panic.

[John Coloccia]

Believe it or not, it also has great resistance to heat. Not moist heat, but locked in your car heat. I tend to use it on headstock breaks. It holds well and if the headstock should ever break again, its not a repair nightmare for the next guy. Use Titebond or something like that, the only choice is epoxy next time around.

[Allan Speers]

Regarding the alternatives, like Old Brown Glue, Titebond Liquid Hide, etc:

Has anyone tested to see if they creep over time? One of the major pluses of regular hide glue, besides the fact that you can easily soften it undo a seam, is that it exhibits very little movement. Typical wood glues like Titebond I & II move quite a bit, if given the chance.

For most furniture building, this isn't an issue due to the joints we use. However, in some case like instrument building, veneering (to some extent) etc it definitely is something to consider.

So.... what's the verdict?

[David Ragan]

When I was doing some veneer work a few years ago, Urea-formaldehyde resin (a powder you mix with water) was the most secure in this regard, for veneer. Dangerous, toxic stuff, but no creep at all.

[Mel Fulks]

I disagree that yellow glues creep. White glue has a lot of creep and that is one of the main reasons that it has been superseded by yellow glue. There is a difference between being flexible and creep. Creep used to mean two surfaces would actually shift out of alignment after the glue was set. I have never seen that happen with yellow glue. If there is a different current meaning,I wish someone would say what it is.

[Allan Speers]

I disagree that yellow glues creep. White glue has a lot of creep and that is one of the main reasons that it has been superseded by yellow glue. There is a difference between being flexible and creep. Creep used to mean two surfaces would actually shift out of alignment after the glue was set. I have never seen that happen with yellow glue. If there is a different current meaning,I wish someone would say what it is.


I HAVE seen it happen. First-hand, and on two different projects. Both were guitar repairs, where the joint was under some pressure. One was probably Titebond I, and the other was definitely Titebond II. After that, I did some reading, and found lots of documentation on this being the case.

Probably, Titebond is just much better than white glue, but not equal to hide glue. Then again, I don't know if any serious clinical tests have ever been done. I don't remember the specifics of the articles I read back then. (many years ago)

[lowell holmes]

Newb question of the day....why hide glue? Is it better than wood glue or is it just taking traditional woodworking one step further?

Read the following link. It spells out the use pretty well. Hide glue is reversible and also easy to rejuvenate with warm water.

http://oldhouseblog.blogspot.com/2010/12/why-use-hot-hide-glue.html

[Mel Fulks]

I can understand that on a guitar,Allan. Yellow glue is not often reccommended for instruments, and that is probably one of the reasons. But the movement that can occur overnight on a white glued mortise and tenon joint, does not happen with yellow glue. Seen furniture go back to work room because of white glue a number of times in a late 1960s employment .Boss saw what was happening but would not allow hot glue.

[Peter Evans]

I successfully (so far) use Titebond Liquid HG for rubbed joints. Put bottle in hot water for a while, brush it on generously and rub until grabs. I only do this for two board glue up. I use clamps for multiple board glue ups because of the issues (for me) in balancing the boards.

[Michael Ray Smith]

Newb question of the day....why hide glue? Is it better than wood glue or is it just taking traditional woodworking one step further?

As Joshua points out, it's easily reversible and can be cleaned up easily with warm water even after it dries. Of course, if you're making something that may get wet -- say, a cutting board -- that's bad, not good. There are other reasons to use it in musical instruments that have to do with the sound, but that's about all I know on that topic -- George can give you a better explanation. If you're repairing antiques, it's probably what was used originally and therefore more authentic. And then there's just the "cool" factor, or to put it less flippantly, the satisfaction of doing things the way they were done in the past.