A method for making Moxon handwheels

[ryan carlino]

In an effort to save a little money, but replicate the really nice Benchcrafted Moxon hardware set, I came up with an alternate approach to the difficult acme-tapped handwheel problem. The hardware required for a Moxon Vise is pretty commonplace in general. I was able to source all the components at Enco for a reasonable amount of money, especially with their recent 20% off and free shipping. The prices below reflect what I paid with the discount on top of the acme sale prices.



3-foot length of 3/4-6 acme rod
$7.99
408-0206


(6) 3/4-6 acme nuts ($2.07 ea)
$12.42
407-2206


(2) extra thick 3/4" washers ($1.33 ea)
$2.66
319-8050


(2) cast iron, 5" handwheels ($5.59 ea)
$11.18
990-3271



$34.25
TOTAL



So, for about $35, I had an entire Moxon hardware kit! Almost.

Cutting the acme rod into two 9-inch segment wasn't too bad with a hacksaw. I have enough leftover rod to make another vise. A minute or two with a flat file got the threads in good shape and the nuts go right on.

The handwheels come with solid hubs. I looked far and wide for a handwheel with a tapped hub, but they don't exist. My research indicated they make them this way intentionally, so that the end user can adapt to whatever application they need. The closest I got was something Roton sells called a "Wing Nut". This is no wimpy thing! It's 9.5" long with acme thread tapped in the middle. Check it out (at the bottom of the page): http://www.roton.com/Mating_Components.aspx?family=7059406 At $33/each, though, they was not practical.

So, the next thing to decide was: fixed rod and threaded handwheel vs. rod attached to the handwheel and some sort of mounting hub on the vise. To do the latter, it would be nice to have a flange nut, kind of like a leg vise. I suppose I could embed the nut I bought, but I'm not sure how to make it flat and square and not fall out. Again, Roton sells it, but for $30 each. I decided on the Benchcrafted approach.

I called three machine shops in Colorado Springs. I couldn't find a rough 'n tough shop. They are all precision shops and none had the 3/4-6 tap on hand. We have a good-size machine shop at work, but they didn't have the tap either.

Plan B: drill a clearance hold through the handwheel and attach the nut to it (as the thread). At this point, I was wishing I bought a round nut (again available at Roton). Then I could drill a 3/4" clearance hole and a 1.25" partial hole. I'd drop the round nut in there and be done. But, I already had a handful of regular nuts. So I begged my co-worker (who is allowed into the machine shop) to take me down there and solve the problem. Here's what we came up with.

First, chuck the handwheel on a big metal lathe. BTW, these handwheels are not circular and the hubs are not concentric with the outer wheels. So, we chucked the hubs, not the wheels - just seems safer and more secure. We stepped up from 1/2" to 3/4" and drilled the through hole. The soft cast iron cut like butter. Maybe it was also the shop's awesome metal lather and sharp bits! Next we chucked up the nuts. It was a little sketchy to only be holding the tip of the nut, but it worked. With a simple cutting tool, we turned down the nut to a create a shoulder. The OD was 1" with about 1/2" of turned area. Then we re-chucked the handwheels and used a huge 1" drill to create a recess to receive the nut. The test fit worked nicely! Since this was on work-time, we didn't try for perfection, cleaned up, and left. Here's the result.

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You can see the shoulder on the nut, the recess in the handwheel, and a finished assembly. I thought about flipping the nut around and finishing it off, but the shoulder is kind of cool and feels right to me. Now, obviously, this isn't done yet, since the nut spins in the handwheel. I thought about epoxy or locktight, but the machinist at work said it would be service-able with a set screw and the locktight requires a better fit that we achieved. I could understand that, although doubt I'd ever wear out the threads :)

I had some 6-32 set screws, but would recommend 8-32. since the smaller size seems wimpy. However, I broke my 8-32 tap a while back and haven't replaced it yet. My 6-32 is intact. I used a drill press to make clearance hole in each hub. Then my hand drill to tap it. It was a little tricky, since the wheel interferes with the drill. The 6-32 tap is pretty short in length. I just made it with where I put the holes. Anyhow, the tap worked great for the set screw. With a single set-screw in each handwheel, I'm in business. They did loosen up on my with all the fiddling I was doing, but after a second tightening, they haven't moved again. I could grind a small flat on the nut, too, and I bet that would help. A second set screw on each on may also be needed down the road.

I don't own a wood lathe, so I don't know if one could do this, but I'd probably try it. The handwheel and nut are both soft metal, so it wasn't too bad on a beefy lathe. Alternately, just buy the round nut and dill two holes: a clearance hole and the inset hole. One last idea was to drill the clearance hole and just glue or pin the nut to the hub. This is a pretty light-load application and I don't think it'd come apart. If you could drill a 3/4" hole, you might be able to make it work.

So, here is the finished product. I was supposed to make it from leftover workbench wood, but I didn't feel like gluing up a bunch of strips to get the 5" boards. So, my cost also includes an 8-foot piece of 8/4 maple, another $35. I will probably line the jaws with some leather, since the hard maple is really hard. Add a little oil and it's done.

Finished vise, mounted on bench:
280700


Side view, using holdfasts to secure:
280701

Close up of handwheel. You can see the set screw if you look closely.
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One last thing: I chose to not make my front jaw hang below the bench, so I could use the vise in the middle of the bench. I may add 2 tabs (like on the TFWW version) to help align it - not a big deal.

ryan

[Chris Griggs]

So, for about $35, I had an entire Moxon hardware kit! Almost.


Yes!!! That is my kinda moxon vise.

[george wilson]

I'll bet if you had used 660 Loctite,you'd not have needed the set screw. Believe it or not,they stick double barrel shotgun barrels together with it. My gunsmith friend Jon does. A lot easier than the old soldering. I think it is incredible that the Loctite stands the kick of the gun.

[Lornie McCullough]

Nicely conceived and executed!!

Lornie

[Michael Fross]

Fantastic. This is going on my todo list.

[John Gornall]

How about no threads in the handwheel - fix the rod in the handwheel - drill and put a pin through. Then fix the nuts in the rear vise jaw - weld on a flange for a couple of screws or? Then turn the handles and the rods tighten through the vise out of your work area. Like Roubo did.

[ryan carlino]

If I could get my hands on an acme flange, that would be a nice way to go. I definitely considered it, but the flange I found was costly. A nut could be used, but it's only 3/4" thick, so I don't know how well it would all align. One thing I found about the acme thread is that it has a lot of play in it with the nuts. The thing that makes it slide so easily also makes it a little sloppy.

I have enough extra rod, though, to give it a try. I could make a wooden handle, attach it to the rod, and see if it spins easily through a nut mounted in a board.

[Sean Hughto]

If you have a lathe, you could turn a wooden hand wheel and epoxy a steel nut in the center.

[Derek Cohen]

Sean, I imagine that a wooden wheel does not carry the same momentum into a turning that a heavy cast iron wheel does. Plus the cast iron does look cool.

I built the "Chris Schwarz" handles to start, the straight type. Nearly dislocated my wrists! These were discarded for something more traditional, which has remained (as nice as the cast iron wheel looks, I doubt I shall be upgrading - unless the vise disintegrates) ...

http://www.inthewoodshop.com/ShopMadeTools/ModsfortheMoxon_html_7ad02ebc.jpg

Ryan, that was well done. It does appear that some machining is needed to get closer to the level of the quality that is offered by BC. While the gap is pretty large on paper, BC does do all the work. Some will benefit from that and be willing to pay the premium which, in hours saved, is reasonable to me. I would more likely go down your route for myself. thank you for this.

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Sean Hughto]

I think I could make some pretty cool wheels on my lathe. And if I used some lignum or iron wood it would be good and heavy.

I had the same experience with CS's original design and my final, like yours has tommy bars.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/chevy_chase_hughtos/5608136319/

Cheers!

[Maurice Ungaro]

With regard to the cast iron wheels from Enco, an alternative could also work. Instead of turning a nut to fit inside the wheel, one could turn the acme screw down on the end to fit the hub of the wheel. Then, drill through the side to insert a pin. In practice, the hand wheel stays fixed to the screw, and the screw turns withe the wheel. You just have to have the balance of the screw run free out the back of the vise. Being a cheapskate, I like this thread. In reality, with no access to a machine shop, I'll end up buying Jameel's kit at $149.

[ryan carlino]

At the onset to this project, I thought the cost of the Benchcrafted set was a little high for what you got. With some shopping around, I found it's really only $30-40 worth of hardware. However, after struggling with finding a solution and investing the time in an ok compromise, I would fully recommend the Benchcrafted set. It's all done for you and it works! They cut up the acme rod, they sourced all the pieces, they provided the plans, and of course, they tapped the handwheels.

If you took your blank handwheels to a machine shop and it took them even an hour to tap them, you'd spend way more them the BC set.

For me, it was fun to learn to use the hefty metal lathe and gave my buddy and I an hour boondoggle at work. Of course, it also exposes the very obvious fact that there are many ways to skin this cat.

[John Gornall]

For the budget minded I saw online, can't seem to find it again, a cheap handwheel. Guy used a dumbbell weight seldom used in his basement. The weight is a cast iron, 5" diameter, about 1/2" thick, flat plate about 2 1/2 pounds. It had a 1" hole in the middle. He laid out a hex around the hole and filed until a nut could be hammered in with an interference fit. He didn't use acme thread, just standard threaded rod and he drilled and tapped near the edge for a bolt with a spinner knob. Seemed to work OK.

[Bob Glenn]

I am in the process of having one end of my acme rod threaded with pipe thread. I will then screw on a 3/4 inch Tee fitting after removing the internal threads where the handle will go through. In place of an acme nut, I'm going to try to split a large washer and mount both sides at an angle to match the threads. It may or may not have enough purchase to work well.

[Jessica Pierce-LaRose]

So for the cheap and non-machine-shop enabled, how difficult is it working with these materials? I have a cheap drill press, I can probably scrounge access to a nicer one. Is the cast iron something that can be drilled easily, or do you need fancy tooling? I'm used to working thinner, softer metals (mostly aluminum cases for guitar pedals), For larger holes, I generally drill smaller pilot holes on the drill press, and enlarge with a unibit in a handheld drill, since my press's slowest speed is 750rpm, which seems a bit fast when working large diameter holes in metal.

Maurice's suggestion of turning off the threads to fit into a hole in the handwheels seems easier, in theory, to me as well. Not having a turning solution for this, could one remove the threads carefully by hand with a file? With a grinder? I imagine it would be difficult to drill through the rod - what about grinding a flat on it, and then drilling just through the hub and using a set screw against the flat?

I keep waffling on purchasing a wooden thread kit and going that approach, but I don't know what else I'd do with a 1 1/2" screws.

[ryan carlino]

I think with decent bits, a good clamp/vise, and a lot of sizes from small to large, the cast iron can be drilled on a drill press. Compared to steel it is soft. I drilled the set screws on my drill press and it was easy. I could see slowly stepping up in sizes until you have a good size through-hole. The threaded acme rod seemed a little harder (or my hacksaw was dull), but it wasn't too bad to file the threads after I cut it.

[Isaac Smith]

Here is an option that requires no metalworking machines. I did use a drill press to drill the handles, but it could be done without one. You don't get the nice cast iron handwheel, but I haven't yet wished for them on this one.

I did splurge and used the precision Acme threaded rod. I don't have any of the regular thread to compare it to, but the handles do run very smoothly on this one.

The handles started out as 2 3/8" squares, and are about 4" long. I had some fears that it would be difficult to tighten them tightly enough, but that turned out to be a total non-issue. I can generate more than enough force to bow the front jaw (1 1/4" x 4 1/2" sycamore, but only 11" between centers).

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[Maurice Ungaro]

Nicely done, Isaac!


Here is an option that requires no metalworking machines. I did use a drill press to drill the handles, but it could be done without one. You don't get the nice cast iron handwheel, but I haven't yet wished for them on this one.

I did splurge and used the precision Acme threaded rod. I don't have any of the regular thread to compare it to, but the handles do run very smoothly on this one.

The handles started out as 2 3/8" squares, and are about 4" long. I had some fears that it would be difficult to tighten them tightly enough, but that turned out to be a total non-issue. I can generate more than enough force to bow the front jaw (1 1/4" x 4 1/2" sycamore, but only 11" between centers).

280753 280754 280755 280756 280757 280758

[Steve Voigt]

Here is an option that requires no metalworking machines. I did use a drill press to drill the handles, but it could be done without one. You don't get the nice cast iron handwheel, but I haven't yet wished for them on this one.

I did splurge and used the precision Acme threaded rod. I don't have any of the regular thread to compare it to, but the handles do run very smoothly on this one.

The handles started out as 2 3/8" squares, and are about 4" long. I had some fears that it would be difficult to tighten them tightly enough, but that turned out to be a total non-issue. I can generate more than enough force to bow the front jaw (1 1/4" x 4 1/2" sycamore, but only 11" between centers).


A very nice and economical solution, especially for those who don't have the ability to drill and tap a hand wheel. Beautiful saw in the first pic, btw.

Another option is just to make wooden handwheels. This thread is inspiring me to consider that when I eventually make a moxon…about 12 years ago, I needed a hand wheel for my Rockwell TS. After finding out that a factory replacement would cost more than $50 (which is almost what I paid for the saw!), I made a wheel out of hard maple. 'm still using that handwheel, almost daily, 12 years later.

[Tom Blank]

Isaac,

Thank you for posting, I've been thinking my way through a similar project. A couple of questions please:

Is that a sleeve you put in the front chop, simply to keep the threads from chewing on the chop?

Did you use two nuts on each rod on the rear chop, or is that longer threaded coupling nut? If two nuts, how did you get the threads timed and tight at the same time?

Thanks,

Tom

[Isaac Smith]

Tom, there are two nuts on the rod at the rear chop. The one in the front is recessed into the wood so that the jaws can close all the way. The second nut is just tightened onto the rod from the rear. No need to time them. The nut in the handle is fixed to the wood, but is free to rotate on the rod. The wood handle is hollowed out so that it covers the rod that projects from the front.

That is indeed a bronze sleeve bearing, and as you guessed, is simply to keep the wood off of the threads.

Since that explanation may not be as clear as it could be, there are more pictures of it here (http://www.blackburntools.com/blog/finally-on-the-moxon-vise-bandwagon/).

[Malcolm Schweizer]

Thanks for this post. I am going to order the parts.

[Malcolm Schweizer]

UGH!!! The hand wheels are a non-NAFTA item so they cannot ship outside the US/PR. I guess I will have to ship it to mom and dad in the states. I hate rules.

[Paul Saffold]

If you aren't adamant about having a hand wheel there are other relatively inexpensive options out there such as a veneer press screw. Lee Valley and Rockler and others carry them. Nothing to machine.


http://www.leevalley.com/en/wood/page.aspx?p=31138
http://www.rockler.com/woodworking/Veneer-Press-Screw

[Maurice Ungaro]

Paul, this is an option that I had thought about, but quite frankly, forgotten. Do you think the handle could get in the way of sawing?

[Tom Blank]

Isaac,

Ah, I thought the wooden handles were tight on the threads and drove the acme screw back and forth through the nuts on the rear chop.

Thanks,

Tom

[Todd Hyman]

Ryan could you buy the roton round steel nut that is located at the bottom of the weblink (part 89519 two items above the wing nut for $5.52ea) and just drill a 1.25in hole in the handwheel and add the set screw.

[ryan carlino]

Totally true. One consideration, though, is that the handwheel hub is 1.4" in diameter (IIRC). That doesn't leave a ton of wall thickness (1.4-1.25)/2 = 0.075" for the set screw, assuming it was a circle to begin with. Loctite would work, too. This is definitely a simple enough vise that all of these sound like good options.

[jason thigpen]

I went the same cheap Enco route as well. I just bought a 3' length of 1/2" rod and cut 2" handles from it instead of sourcing hand wheels. Tig welded those to the nuts for a wing nut style handle. Not as fancy as the hand wheels, but still hefty enough to spin quickly.

[Maurice Ungaro]

VERY cool wing nuts, Jason! I'll bet they do have some heft to 'em!
Some very interesting takes on Moxon hardware out there. This thread has shown some real talent in the Creek.


I went the same cheap Enco route as well. I just bought a 3' length of 1/2" rod and cut 2" handles from it instead of sourcing hand wheels. Tig welded those to the nuts for a wing nut style handle. Not as fancy as the hand wheels, but still hefty enough to spin quickly.

[jason thigpen]

Thanks Maurice! That Enco sale was a great deal. So far I have just under $35 invested. I still have 20" of acme rod and right more of the nuts. Trying to decide how to use the rest of it. Maybe use some for a heavy duty wooden saw vise.

[Paul Saffold]

I haven't had any problems with the handle being in the way. The handles are 5 & 3/4" across and the ends do stick up above the jaw but with 24+" between the screws it hasn't been a problem.

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[Maurice Ungaro]

Paul, I realized after I posted that the width of the jaw would negate any interference. Looks like a quick and solid way to go.

[Malcolm Schweizer]

If you aren't adamant about having a hand wheel there are other relatively inexpensive options out there such as a veneer press screw. Lee Valley and Rockler and others carry them. Nothing to machine.


http://www.leevalley.com/en/wood/page.aspx?p=31138
http://www.rockler.com/woodworking/Veneer-Press-Screw


Thanks Paul. Strange, when I search LV for "Press Screw" it comes up empty. I thought they had stopped selling them. This is about the same price as buying all the parts individually.

[Malcolm Schweizer]

... And now it shows up when I search. Didn't do so the previous times. Must be Monday.

[Brett Bobo]

Great job and I really like how it turned out, Ryan!

The wing nut by Roton is an interesting idea as an alternative to the machining required on the handwheels. Based on the dimensions provided for the wing nut, the ball portion of the wing nut is 1 1/8" dia. and the center hub is only 1" thick so you would need some sort of sleeve to act as a standoff to provide separation from the vise jaw. Did you have something in mind for that? I guess most anything would work but I'm curious if you found something through Roton or Enco as well.

[ryan carlino]

The thick washers I mentioned in the first post would be what I would use with those wing nuts. The length of those, however, might be a little long at 9.5". The handwheels are 5" and just right. 9.5" would stick up a bit.

[Jack Curtis]

Funny, I, too, searched on LV for "press screw" and "press vise" last week without satisfaction. I, too, got a hit during the last couple of days; but today, no luck, LV no longer shows a press screw (I went there to add it to my shopping cart).

[Brett Bobo]

It appears the press screw does not ship to a U.S. address, which is why it doesn't show up in a search when I'm logged in. It does, however, show up in the search when viewing the Canadian site.

[Tom Blank]

Jorgensen also markets a veneer press screw, model 6700 in three thread lengths.

[Malcolm Schweizer]

I ended up going to woodworker.com and although they were $17 each where others had press screws for $15, they charged me $10 less shipping (same priority mail) than the other guys. So I am in for $50 shipped for two press screws. Since my Ruobo dream build is going to be a bit longer than hoped to become reality, this will make dovetailing easier for now. (Currently using world's worst-racking bench vise.)

Thanks for starting this thread because it motivated me to finally do this. I really like your hand wheel choice but since they couldn't ship to me I had to go with the press screws.

I will ill likely laminate the vise jaws out of mahogany and flamed maple that I have on hand and I need to use.

[Jack Curtis]

It appears the press screw does not ship to a U.S. address, which is why it doesn't show up in a search when I'm logged in. It does, however, show up in the search when viewing the Canadian site.

Of course, that explains it, thanks.

[Robert Johnson]

Ryan,
Thanks for posting this. I just placed my order with Enco with enough material to build two Moxon benches. Enco is offering 15% off and free shipping with orders over $99 (codes game day and kickoff). So I also ordered a 18 x 12 x 3 inch granite slab for flattening chisels and plane blades (item #640-0120) and a few other items for the shop. It was all $50 less than the price of the Benchcraft kit.
—Robert in Albuquerque

[ryan carlino]

Sounds cool - be sure to post your creation. It's been neat to see the many creative solutions to the handwheel/acme thread problem.

[Kelly Craig]

Some nice ideas!

Just for reference to those living in or near farming country and irrigation suppliers, consider looking into their old valves. Around here, irrigation circles use valves for twelve inch pipes. Of course, there are six inch pipes too. Many of these are tossed for the scrap value of the iron and brass. For that price, you can get the wheel and thread. If nothing else, you have the start of a cider press.

[jason thigpen]

Here's my finished vise. Total capacity between screws is 13.5". Opens to 4". I make a lot of small boxes so the wide capacity is nice for clamping the boxes sideways and cleaning up dovetails. Anything bigger and I'll use my Lee Valley twin screw to clamp it. This thing is smooth as butter and grips like crazy! Great little build.

[Michael Tubbs]

Hi Ryan,

Nice work! You really came out with a fine looking vise. Now that you've had some time to use it, and if you were to do it over again, would you stick with the 3/4-6 rod, or would you go to the 3/4-8 rod that Benchcrafted uses on their vise? I ask because I'm getting ready to order threaded rod and nuts for my own joinery bench (after seeing Shannon Rogers': http://www.renaissancewoodworker.com/joinery-bench-small-parts/) and the 3/4-8 rod is readily available at Roton. Maybe some others can comment on their experience with thread pitch on these vises?

Thanks for sharing your project. Very inspiring.

-Mike

[ryan carlino]

For me, it all came down to the cost and availability of the nuts. Roton has a much wider selection than Enco, but costs a lot more (min order of $60 IIRC). I don't mind the thread pitch at all for this application. If you give it a little crank, it's not going anywhere. Maybe you wouldn't have to tighten it as much with a 3/4-8 rod, but I've never felt the goodness of a Benchcrafted vise, so I wouldn't know the difference anyhow.

If you are ordering from Roton, you can get all sorts of cool threaded stuff and I'd say, go for what looks good. I was trying to keep my Moxon cheap, so I went the Enco route, which only has one nut thread type.