Sway friend from borg lumber,...or let him use it?

[Craig Behnke]

i have a friend that has asked me to help him make a countertop for his vacation cabin (joint, plane, glue up, etc.). he wants a basic, no-frills countertop, 8 ft long, 32 inch wide that will take the abuse of camping life.

he wants to use borg lumber, 2x8's of southern yellow pine or doug fir (not sure if pressure treated). I've mentioned that the borg stuff wouldn't be my first choice and i'd recommend him getting hard maple from a local mill, but it's his baby and he can do what he wants.

in the past i've glued up borg boards with mixed success (warping, joint separation). should i very strongly recommend that he reconsider using the borg wood, or should I let him use it and try my best to help him work around the issues.

if he stays with using borg wood, i would recommend he let's it dry out for 1-2 weeks in his garage and i would recommend he does extensive doweling of the joints. I was thinking of using titebond III for the glue up. Any other major things I could do to help his project if he sticks with borg wood?

thanks for the help.

[glenn bradley]

I have always ended up with more spoil that parts when using BORG lumber. In the end I could have bought some properly prepared poplar at a "real" lumberyard and saved money. Using BORG lumber is a false economy; it has never paid off for me.

[eugene thomas]

Would 1 or 2 weeks be enough time for construction lumber to dry?

[Bill Gugel]

Get a formica counter top,cheaper faster easier.

[Steve Rozmiarek]

If you use borg lumber, use something close to the final dimension, don't rip 2x10's in half and expect them to stay put. If you get the good stuff, and can basically just finish the edges, there is a chance it could work. Same with any framing lumber though, not just the borg.

[Jamie Buxton]

If you glue green lumber up into a 32"-wide counter, the eventual shrinkage will be obvious. In a couple of years, the counter will be an inch narrower or so. You'll also need to use some sort of sliding connection between the counter and the base, so that shrinkage can be accommodated. If your friend really wants to use construction lumber, a better scheme would be to nail each 2x6 down to the base without gluing the 2x6s together. When they shrink, the gaps between the boards will get bigger, but that's "rustic".

[Alan Bienlein]

I have no problem with borg lumber. It's just a matter of knowing what to look for. Here is a photo of some shop cabinets I just finished with borg lumber. The doors were made from a 2 x 12 x 16' piece of southern yellow pine that I ripped into 2-1/2" pieces and then ran them thru the band saw to split those in half to make the stiles and rails for the doors. They came out a hair under 3/4" after making a pass on the jointer and a pass thru the surface planer.
280703280704

This is a shot of my work bench top also done with southern yellow pine 2 x 6 x 12's. I ran these on my jointer on edge after surfacing both sides running them thru my lunch box planer.
280705

I should mention that the wood I used for the doors I cut and machined the day after bringing it home from the borg.

[Bill White]

By the way, don't use PT lumber for a countertop. Bad stuff for that application.
Bill

[Myk Rian]

Get a formica counter top,cheaper faster easier.
^^^^This^^^^ Get one with a wood grain.

[Rich Riddle]

Alan,

You made your workbench top from Southern Yellow Pine from the borg? Never considered Southern Yellow Pine for a workbench top.

[Dennis McDonaugh]

Alan,

You made your workbench top from Southern Yellow Pine from the borg? Never considered Southern Yellow Pine for a workbench top.

That's what mine is made of, once you glue it together its very stable.

http://i139.photobucket.com/albums/q320/bmcdonau/IMG_0536_zps292f1893.jpg

I ran it through a lunch box planer in sections then used a number 6 Stanley one it was glued into one piece..

[Sam Stephens]

for abuse, syp won't do. it will dent. maple won't, at least not w/o some effort. For me, the cost is my time, not the lumber. if pine is what he wants, then I'd get some from a proper lumber yard and make sure the pitch is set, i.e. so the resin doesn't bleed out. If he's dead set on syp from the borg, get the long wide boards 2x10s and 2x12s 8-16ft range. They'll be the straightest. The boards cut from the center of the tree w/ the pith are preferred b/c the grain is basically QS. Just rip either side of the pith b/c you don't want that portion. You will have to watch out for internal stress though i.e. boards that warp while you cut, so plan on buying extra.
fwiw, my workbench is syp as well. great stuff in the right application.

[Loren Woirhaye]

I've found the 92" kiln dried hemlock pine 2x4s to be stable and generally dry enough to trust.

280743280744

[glenn bradley]

Would 1 or 2 weeks be enough time for construction lumber to dry?

Obviously experiences differ. I had the kiln dried 2 x 12 douglas fir from Lowe's stickered in my southern California shop for 2 months. It was pretty lively when milled down but, I finally got enough material to make a base for my bench. I had bought enough material for a second project and calculated 20% waste. I barely got the workbench base out of it. Even with the 200lb top on, and loaded drawer units in the base, it continued to move. It is a constant annoyance and as soon as I reach my limit, I will rebuild the base out of something else. JME.

[Nathan Callender]

I wouldn't do it with DF. But, if you get some good syp then why not? You need to be selective on the boards you pick and grain orientation, and remove the pith, etc, but if he is going for a rustic, thick top, then it would be perfect.

i would definitely coat it with an epoxy top finish though.

[Randy Rose]

That's what mine is made of, once you glue it together its very stable.



I ran it through a lunch box planer in sections then used a number 6 Stanley one it was glued into one piece..

Same here, then through bolted the sections together with all thread.
Consider topping with a sheet of melamine coated Masonite, smooth, flat, glue & paint drips scrape off with a razor blade.
You can write or draw on it and then erase. When it finally gets beat up, replace it !

[Jim Matthews]

I'm almost as far North as the OP.

The construction lumber at my local HD and Lowe's tests at over 12% moisture content
with my pin meter. There's easy to get, and then there's easy to use.

If you're banging the nails, put your foot down or take a pass on this.
It's never going to be right, using wet lumber.

[Jeff Duncan]

Construction lumber is "wet" compared to furniture grade lumber regardless of where you buy it….it's supposed to be. And 12% sounds a little low, may have been sitting there in the heated store for a while? It's usually closer to 16 - 18% I think. There are several reason for this, but that's another thread.

What's available in terms of quality is going to vary by location. In my area, I can buy construction lumber at the Borg and spend 1/2 hour looking through the stack of culls trying to see if a straight board or 2 were accidentally included:o……or I can go to the local lumberyard and grab a few boards right off the top that will be much better quality for not much more…..maybe a few cents per stick. If you have a local lumber yard you may want to encourage your friend to try them first.

good luck,
JeffD

[Jim Matthews]

Construction lumber is "wet" compared to furniture grade lumber regardless of where you buy it….it's supposed to be. And 12% sounds a little low, may have been sitting there in the heated store for a while? It's usually closer to 16 - 18% I think. There are several reason for this, but that's another thread. JeffD

I won't buy lumber higher than 12% moisture content for interior cabs.
If it tests higher, I don't bother. That's what I meant to say.

Dealing with shrinkage, racking and twisting from lumber that was assembled "wet" induces headaches.

I've got enough headaches, already.

[Frederick Skelly]

Alan,

You made your workbench top from Southern Yellow Pine from the borg? Never considered Southern Yellow Pine for a workbench top.

I used BORG 2x4s for mine. Prepared them just like Alan describes. Been good for 8 years now. Pick through the stack carefully (took me an hour). Its cheap and it works very well.
Fred

[Kent A Bathurst]

he wants to use borg lumber, 2x8's of southern yellow pine or doug fir (not sure if pressure treated).

in the past i've glued up borg boards with mixed success (warping, joint separation). should i very strongly recommend that he reconsider using the borg wood, or should I let him use it and try my best to help him work around the issues.

if he stays with using borg wood, i would recommend he let's it dry out for 1-2 weeks in his garage and i would recommend he does extensive doweling of the joints. I was thinking of using titebond III for the glue up. Any other major things I could do to help his project if he sticks with borg wood?

Be sure you DO NOT use pressure treated.

SYP or DF are fine. They are in the store at max 19% MC. Letting them dry some more won't hurt, but at this time of year, I doubt they are at 19% anyway.

But - if you let them sit for a couple weeks, you will be prone to warp/twist. Me - I'd drop down to maybe 2 x 6. If you just joint the edges like any glue-up, the T-III will do fine.

[Rian de Bruyn]

What is "Borg lumber"

[Kent A Bathurst]

What is "Borg lumber"

Big Orange Retail Giant.

Colloquially, The Home Depot, or Lowe's.

May refer to independent lumber yards also, but usually not - just the Big Two.

In some cases - but not all - carries a certain hint of derision with respect to the marketing strategies, market muscle, results of a "race to the bottom" product pricing structure, etc.

Us legit woodworkers don't shop there, except when we do.............:D :D :D

[Art Mann]

I buy 2X4 and 2X6 SYP lumber at Home Depot just every once in a while when I see they have a good batch that is straight, flat and not too knotty. Then I bring it home and dry it in my shop loft for several months. When I get ready to use it, I consider it rough lumber. I will joint, rip and plane it down to 1-3/8 by 3-3/8 or 5-3/8 inches. Material prepared this way is smooth, straight and dimensionally stable. I have used it to make several shop tables, cabinets and shelves and have had no trouble with warpage. I don't think 2 or even 4 weeks is enough time to get this lumber down to a usable moisture level.