Table Joinery Advice

[Daniel Rode]

I'm building a set of mission style end tables. They will have an apron on 3 sides at the top and a shelf between 2 runners at the bottom. The 4th side will contain a drawer at the top rather than an apron. While my table is unlike the example in this FWW article (http://www.finewoodworking.com/how-to/qa/lapped-dovetails-are-the-right-joint-for-a-top-rail.aspx), the apron and drawer details are identical. That article shows a dovetail for the top rail (above the drawer). I seems like the right joint for the task and I'm pretty confident I can pull it off with the tools and skill I have now.

My question is about the bottom rail (under the drawer 3/4" x 1 1/2" x 12"). I initially thought of a small M&T. I also considered trying a short sliding dovetail but I'm not sure I can pull it off. It's very similar to the lapped DT at the top but it's deeper (1 1/2" vs 3/4") and it shows to some degree. I'm concerned with strength alone. Since the only other support side to side is the back apron and the shelf, I'm want to get this right.

Combined with the dovetailed top rail, is the M&T strong enough on the lower rail or should I do more. If more, do I try a sliding dovetail, pin the tenon or something else entirely?

I didn't ask in the general woodworking forum because I want to stick to traditional joinery I can do by hand.

I'm open to any suggestions.

[glenn bradley]

With the DT at the top and the shelf at the bottom I would be OK with an M&T under the drawer. I have two nite stands built just as you describe that are going on 7 years without issue. Others may feel differently.

[Jim Foster]

In two casegoods, I've seen the lower rail you describe have a small vertical, double stub tenon used. With this double tenon one piece uses a pin or dowel in conjunction with the tenon.

[Chris Griggs]

IIRC, small double tenon is typically how I've seen it done to. I suppose you could drive a peg in from the back too for extra security, but I wouldn't think it would be necessary. YMMV

[Daniel Rode]

A double stub tenon across the height? I'm having trouble seeing how I'd fit 2 tenons across 3/4" unless there were no shoulders top and bottom.

[Prashun Patel]

Assuming that lower stretcher will not be supporting the weight of the drawer (if it rides on runners attached to the side aprons) then a tiny stub tenon is all that would be needed. But if you need more cowbell then I second (as if it lends more credence) to CGrigg's suggestion of a double tenon. There was just an article in FWW about tenons in skinny parts.

http://www.finewoodworking.com/how-to/article/strong-tenons-in-skinny-legs.aspx

Can any of this be adapted?

[Chris Griggs]

A double stub tenon across the height? I'm having trouble seeing how I'd fit 2 tenons across 3/4" unless there were no shoulders top and bottom.

No double across the width...side by side, not on top of each other. Honestly for a little side table it probably doesn't need to be double; it adds some glue surface though.

[Daniel Rode]

Thanks Prashun. That link helps a lot.

For clarification, my rails are 3/4" high and 1 1/2" deep with a 2 1/2" drawer between them while the aprons on the remaining 3 sides are 4" tall but only 3/4" thick/deep. The front/back double tenon would work well for this application.

[Jim Koepke]

Another joint to consider could be a half lap dovetail.

This could be on the backside of the legs to conceal the joint to those who didn't want to get down of the floor to look.

Making a shallow mortise on the legs where the rails meet would improve the look.

jtk

[Tom Vanzant]

Daniel, I built a similar table as a bedside table. Upper rail was lap DT into the top of the legs, lower rail M&T 1/2" dp, shelf rails open lap mortised into inner face of legs, pegged. Legs are 2" sq, rails span 15 1/2". Built in Houston TX, it has resided in AZ for two years with problems.

[Michael Peet]

Hi Daniel,

I've done it with a double tenon, this should give you an idea:

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Mike

[Daniel Rode]

Thanks Mike! And thanks to everyone for all the advice. Based on the feedback I got here, I drew something very close to what have in the picture. The stub tenons are 3/4" long in my drawing. Any advantage to having them shorter? Say 1/2" instead as yours appear to be?

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[Tom Scott]

Any advantage to having them shorter? Say 1/2" instead as yours appear to be?

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The advantage is that you create a shoulder all around the piece, which can hide any gaps in your joinery. This joint shouldn't show unless the drawer is out, so not a big issue. I do think it makes for a cleaner look, though.

[Michael Peet]

Hi Daniel,

I am not sure if there's an advantage to making them longer. On the one hand they will give you more glue area, but on the other they could be more fragile. I think you would be okay with 3/4".

It's hard to see in the picture I posted but there is a small shoulder above and below the tenons.

Mike

[Sam Stephens]

+1. i'd probably make the tenons the same length as the dt so the rail length and shoulder mark can be the same, but that's just b/c i'm lazy.


Thanks Mike! And thanks to everyone for all the advice. Based on the feedback I got here, I drew something very close to what have in the picture. The stub tenons are 3/4" long in my drawing. Any advantage to having them shorter? Say 1/2" instead as yours appear to be?

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