Scary Sharp?

[Bob Yarbrough]

Little gloat, just recieved Lee Valley low-angle block & smooth plane. First time I have spent any amount of time with a hand plane since high school woodshop back in the pre calculator days. I am in the process of learning by doing. Lot more fun then the random orbital sander, by far.

Scary Sharp?!?, I have read about the system, seems like a very good way to sharpen things needing to be sharp. Question, will this system work with Lee Valleys Mk II honing guide (daughter wants to get me one for Fathers Day)?

Also any suggestions on the use of my new tools would be appreciated.

[John Miliunas]

Bob, looking into methods of sharpening and honing your irons is a great place to continue your slide down the "slope"!:D Many methods to be had and probably just as many opinions. The MK II honing jig is a wonderful starting point, be it for SS or using stones. The purists will tell you that SS may have a tendency to round off the edge ever so slightly, due to the minuscule "curling" of the paper just in front of it. They're probably right, but I still think SS is a great and economical way to start! I've used it myself with very good results and now even own a technically "revised" edition of it, that being the powered MK II Sharpener from LV. I also do a LOT of honing by way of stones. I'm still trying to decide on the best, most efficient method, which works for me. :rolleyes: But there's part of the "secret": YOU will need to decide which method works best for YOU! Just MHO, but with those really nice planes you just picked up, you'll want to get them honed real, real soon. The SS system will allow you to do that most economically, and the MK II honing jig will ensure accuracy and repeatability.:) (BTW, those new planes really don't exist until we see pics of them!!!):D :cool:

[David Klug]

Bob I use the SS all the time. I have a 1/4x6"x36" piece of plate glass that I glue some strips of sandpaper of various grits up to 600. With a jig to keep the angle steady, it goes very fast.

DK

[Bob Johnson2]

Yep, works just fine. Note though that using the scary method you'll go through some paper. I've been mounting 2 1/2 sheets on one side of a 3/8" plate of glass and have to tear them off when I finish with those grits before going on to the next. Have considered using both sides of the glass or getting more then one. I have been using 80, 180, 220, 320, 600, 1200, then 2000 so I guess both sides of 2 plates would work. Got to watch that you don't get anything under the paper stuck to the glue. I also found you have to be carfull when you get to the 2000, the blades are so sharp by then they easily dig into the thinner 2000. lightening up on the pressure takes care of it.

On a side note, with a 2.75" plane blade I found that by the time I got through the 2000 the cutting edge was now square to one of the sides, while this old fella's sides are not parellel to each other. The real problem is that the blade is a real old one, so by using the guide I ended up with the edge square to one side and pretty far off from the other side, I need to NOT use the guide with this one. The jig/guide works very well, too well in this case.

[Dan Forman]

Bob---The answer is yes, and maybe. If you want your blades flat from edge to edge, then yes, it definitely will work.

If, however, you want to camber the edge, that is, round it a bit by taking a little more steel off the corners so as to prevent gouging on the side of the cut,, then the answer is maybe. David Charlesworth suggests that by varying the pressure on the corners of the blade while sharpening, on a jig which rides on a narrow wheel, the edge can be shaped in such a way. Whereas the wider wheel would lend stability to aid in creating a straight edge, it could conceivably make it more difficult to intentionally shape a curved one. The curved blade makes it possible to control the depth of a shaving by varying the position of the plane on the board, without having to adjust the blade itself. This makes it much easier to square the edge of a board while jointing.

I am hoping a Lee jig owner can answer that one. I asked that in an earlier thread, but it petered out at that point, and was never addressed. If that technique could be performed, I will buy one. It would sure make it easier to set a variey of bevel angles.

Dan

[Jack Wood]

Bob, buy your self some Japanese water stones in coarse medium and fine grits and learn how to sharpen by hand. It's really not that hard and once you learn it you can put a razor edge on a plane blade in about a minute. A lot of woodworking places give classes on this, I took one at Highland Hardware in Atlanta and learned more in one day about sharpening than I had since I started woodworking. The sandpaper method is a great way to sharpen but you will spend A LOT OF money on sandpaper. And try an alternative to sanding at all by using scrapers, they really work.

[Bob Johnson2]

Bob---The answer is yes, and maybe. If you want your blades flat from edge to edge, then yes, it definitely will work.

I am hoping a Lee jig owner can answer that one. I asked that in an earlier thread, but it petered out at that point, and was never addressed. If that technique could be performed, I will buy one. It would sure make it easier to set a variey of bevel angles.

Dan

Dan, I put rounded edges on my 2.75" blade. I first ground the blade to shape on a stationary belt sander then used the jig (this was the first time I've sharpened this old blade so I started from scratch). By applying a good deal of extra pressure on one side then the other it worked pretty good, couldn't do both at the same time though. Your correct in thinking the jig holds steadier then the last version, whne putting a lot of pressure on the one side the other side lifts off your medium of choice, in my case the sand paper. Using the jig worked out better for me then doing the sides free hand, I tried that and ended up rounding the bevel.

[Tom Saurer]

Scary Sharp does work, but I felt the eventual cost of sandpaper wouldn't be worth it, so I bought a good set of Arkansas stones. Arkansas stones cut slower, but you don't have to flatten them, like waterstones. I've never used waterstones, but many people like them. If you really have money to spend you can get diamond stones.

[Bob Johnson2]

Scary Sharp does work, but I felt the eventual cost of sandpaper wouldn't be worth it, so I bought a good set of Arkansas stones. Arkansas stones cut slower, but you don't have to flatten them, like waterstones. I've never used waterstones, but many people like them. If you really have money to spend you can get diamond stones.

Kind of getting off the subject but I have a stack of cupped Arkansas stones, they didn't stay flat for long, except the black hard. They are now good for knives only. The diamond plates were great till I used them to level my jointer table, that dulled them pretty well, dumb move...

[Don Baer]

Here is an amusing article on the Scary Sharp method.


http://www.shavings.net/SCARY.HTM

[Michael Gabbay]

I used SS for about 2 - 3 years. I then moved to waterstones (Nortons). I like them better than SS. For a very small initial investment you can learn how to sharpen a tool with SS. It's only when you want a nicer edge and not have to use paper when you will move to stones.

You can always gradually move to stones. I still use my 220 grit paper for major edge repair.
Mike

[Dan Forman]

Michael--- What do you use to true your Nortons waterstones? I found they would dull 220 wet/dry in short order. I bought a "Smith" monocrystaline diamond stone for flattening the backs of plane blades, used it on the waterstones, but the diamond stone is not flat, consequently neither are my waterstones. Thus far I have found SS to be the more user friendly system, and certailnly more tidy.

Dan

[Alan Turner]

One way to flatten waterstones is to take some 90 grit or so silicon carbide grit and water, and rub the stone on a flat piece of granite, wetted with small amount of grit applied. Works fine and is quick and cheap. Granite floor tile is fine, but you need to check it first to see if it is truly flat.

[Dan Forman]

Alan---How large in relation to the stone does the granite need to be?

Dan

[Alan Turner]

Dan
I use a 12 x 12 of granite floor tile, which happens to be quite flat. I think my stones are about 3 x 8. I am not sure it needs to be that large. I use a circular motion, and try to use all of the plate so I don't dish it.

[Dan Forman]

Thanks Alan. I found a local place that will sell pieces of scrap very reasonably.

Dan

[Michael Gabbay]

I also use a 12x12 tile. You can get float glass but it can be pricey and probably not needed. I use a sheet of wet/dry 220 and don't seem to have any issues with the stones not getting flat. One test that Charlesworth does is to mark lines across the stone and then rub it on the paper to check for true.


Mike

[Roy Wall]

Dan -

A la Michael & Alan ---I also use a 12x12 granite plate and put a wet sheet of 120/220 sandpaper down; then rub the w-stones to flatten. Use pencil lines for reference...

I have 3 stones for sharpening. 2 -1000 and 1-1000 Norton's

[Dan Forman]

Michael and Roy---You don't find that your Norton stones dull the sandpaper in pretty short order? I tried the same thing, but found that after the first flattening, it took a LOOOOONG time to get anywhere with them. I used the pencil markings for a guide as well.

Dan

[Paul Erickson]

What adhesive do you use for holding the sandpaper to the slab?

I have seen reference to 3M "77" but the only item I can find locally
is 3M "super 77" and I can't seem to find out if they are the same thing.

Thanks in advance

[Andrew Ault]

Super 77 works for me. I use Goof Off to get any extra adhesive off after using a razor scraper to help get the paper off the glass plate I use.

-Andy

[Michael Gabbay]

I have not found the paper dulling to be an issue. I wash mine off and reuse it. As for adhesive, the water provides enough to hold the paper in place to flatten.I don't need to flatten my 8000 Norton all that often. The 4000 is flattened before each session (about every 4 - 5 tools).

[Chris Padilla]

Does any like/use the Shapton "stones" ?

[Alan Turner]

That is what I use, Chris. 1000 - 5000 - 8000

[Michael Gabbay]

Man, all this talk of stones and sharpening is getting me motivated to sharpen some planes tonight. Plus I can try my new LV honing guide. So far it looks like it addresses all of my issues with guides. Yes, that was a stealth gloat. :D Mike

[GORDON THOMAS]

Dan:


I have both the LV honing guides. The new one requires more "elbow grease" to put a curve on the plane iron. However, using the DC method of applying pressure on the outside edges of the iron will place a camber on the iron. If you nedd any more details please email me.

take care,

Gordon Thomas

[Roy Wall]

Does any like/use the Shapton "stones" ?

Chris,

I know Mark Singer does.........I also think Tage Frid goes up to the 15000 for final honing...

[Roy Wall]

Michael and Roy---You don't find that your Norton stones dull the sandpaper in pretty short order? I tried the same thing, but found that after the first flattening, it took a LOOOOONG time to get anywhere with them. I used the pencil markings for a guide as well.

Dan

Dan, it does tear it up a little bit....but I can flatten all three stones a few times... I think that frequent rinsing...(Like Micheal) may help - I'm going to try that more often... After I flatten the 1000's and the 8000, I rub the two 1000's together and rinse to get any "sheen" off the stones...then hit the 8000 to the 1000 for the same purpose...they seem to cut faster this way - I"m just doing the same thing the LN guy (Deneb) told me at the KC WW show....

[Dan Forman]

Roy, Gordon, MIchael---Thanks, guess I'll keep trying.

Dan