Benjamin Moore Advance using HVLP

[scott vroom]

I'm working on a paint grade shelving project where the customer wanted to match existing Benjamin Moore wall paint. In the past, my go to BM paint was Satin Impervo waterborne alkyd.....sprayed well, dried to a hard finish, and of course matched BM wall paints. Due to ever-tightening VOC restrictions BM discontinued Impervo a few years ago, replacing it with Advance waterborne alkyd. This is my first attempt at spraying Advance and I was a bit apprehensive given the negative comments I read around the web. I thinned the paint 10% with water and used my 4 stage FUJI HVLP and the #4 tip (gold) to spray over an oil base sanding sealer, setting the spray more toward a fine mist. I was pleasantly surprised at how well the paint laid down....no sag, excellent coverage, and quick dry time, and dries very hard...seems harder than Impervo. I give it a double thumbs up!

I top coated 2 coats of Advance with 3 coats of GF Enduro satin WB poly, sanding between coats 1&2. The final finish is smooth and very hard.

Hope this helps anyone considering spraying with Advance.

[Rick Thompson34]

Good to know!

I assume the discontinuation of waterborne Satin Impervo is a California thing? Otherwise, I guess I'll need to switch over to the Advance when I finally get around to painting the rest of the trim in our house.

Rick

[scott vroom]

yup....good 'ol california leading the way to a sterile environment :(

It's only a matter of time before the enviro-nazis come calling in your state.....

[John TenEyck]

Why did you put the EnduroVar on top?

John

[scott vroom]

Why did you put the EnduroVar on top?

John

John I didn't use EnduroVar; I used GF Enduro Clear Poly. Advantage isn't nearly as durable as GF Enduro Poly, nor is it as easy to touch up should that be necessary.

[Sam Murdoch]

I have enjoyed using the BM Advance on some recent and current projects. I'm glad to read that it sprays well through a FUJI HVLP.

I agree that the Advance is in fact an advance over the Impervo. Scott did you notice the tip on the Advance can that you should give a final clean of all your tools (including spray equipment) with mineral spirits? And just to add to this conversation the manufacturer recommends a 16 hour dry between coats rather than just a few hours or an overnight as you might expect with a water based product. How was the drying time for your spray coats? You wrote "quick" but what does that mean in hours?

[scott vroom]

I have enjoyed using the BM Advance on some recent and current projects. I'm glad to read that it sprays well through a FUJI HVLP.

I agree that the Advance is in fact an advance over the Impervo. Scott did you notice the tip on the Advance can that you should give a final clean of all your tools (including spray equipment) with mineral spirits? And just to add to this conversation the manufacturer recommends a 16 hour dry between coats rather than just a few hours or an overnight as you might expect with a water based product. How was the drying time for your spray coats? You wrote "quick" but what does that mean in hours?

Sam, I laid down a fine spray and was sanding w/320 grit after 4 hours without problem (I sanded with light pressure to avoid pulling the paint away from the wood; the paint itself was hard enough to dust up with light sanding). I recoated immediately after sanding. I know the can says 16 hours for sand/recoat, but I believe that assumes brushed application.

Edit: I should add that Advance doesn't cure as hard as an oil base alkyd IMO. I sprayed out a test board before applying to my project and noticed that it dinged easily, exposing the underlying wood. I chose to topcoat with 3 coats of Enduro poly to protect the painted surface from scratching. If the poly scratches, touch up is a breeze.

[david brum]

Scott, do you have experience with Advance's tendancy toward "blocking" without the clear coat? I keep going back to oil based Satin Impervo, even though it is a pain to spray, because it dries hard and isn't sticky. I'd love to have a decent waterborne alternative.

[scott vroom]

Scott, do you have experience with Advance's tendancy toward "blocking" without the clear coat? I keep going back to oil based Satin Impervo, even though it is a pain to spray, because it dries hard and isn't sticky. I'd love to have a decent waterborne alternative.

No, but this is my first effort with Advance. I've had the problem with Impervo WB where door hits the stop...it's frustrating. Unfortunately oil based Impervo is no longer available in California.

[John TenEyck]

Thanks for the reply Scott. I really like GF Enduro Clear Poly, too. Back to paint, you might consider SW's Pro-Classic Acrylic Latex. It's very hard and I've seen no evidence of blocking. I've sprayed it with an HVLP conversion gun, but an airless unit would be a better choice.

John

[david brum]

Thanks John. I'll look into Pro Classic and also talk to my local store about Advance to see what their experience is with blocking. I would likely also be using an HPLV conversion gun also. I have a room full of painted cabinets coming up later this year and don't think I can face another solvent equipment cleaning session.

[scott vroom]

David, you might also take a look at General Finishes pigmented Enduro Poly....you can have it custom tinted to match popular brands, they also have their own color palette to select from. I've used it on several kitchen/bath cabinet jobs....it's designed to be sprayed and is just an excellent choice for painted woodwork. Good coverage, quick dry time, sands very well. IMO it's superior to any of the latex/alkyd waterbornes offered by Benj. Moore (I've not tried the Sherwin product). You can buy it through Homestead Finishing or directly from GF.

http://generalfinishes.com/professional-products/water-base-paints-glazes-and-pigmented-topcoats/pigmented-acryilic-high-solids-finish#.Ut3zxWTTm_U

[Peter Quinn]

Another option that may be available depending on your are is ML Campbell's aqualente system. They have white base that can be tinted to any of be major paint makers colors if you have a formula. Performance is good ime, sprays well with minimal thinning, dries quickly and achieves a hard durable surface quickly. They recommend one or two coats of clear as a top coat. Target has a similar option though I haven't personally used their pigmented coatings.

I was involved with a kitchen that used the BM advance last summer iir, hand brushed application, seemed to work well.

[david brum]

Thanks guys. I'll look into those options as well. I tried a tinted WB laquer earlier this year from my BM store (Lenmar Duralaq). The guys at the store weren't familiar with tinting lacquers, so they called Lenmar to make certain that the BM universal colors would work. They got the OK from Lenmar and mixed me 2 gallons. When I sprayed it, it layed down so beautifully that it brought a tear to my eye. Unfortunately, it immediately formed hundreds of fish eyes. Good thing I tried it on scrap. The guys at the store shrugged their shoulders and gave me a couple of gallons of oil based Satin Impervo instead. I was scared off of WB laquer, but would certainly be willing to try it again from a different company.

[Wakahisa Shinta]

To add more data to this thread.

I sprayed a mid-size bookcase with BM Advance semi-gloss (first time usage) using an Earlex 5500 HVLP + 1.5 mm tip. Dilution of ~11% with distill water. Outside temp ~78 F. Light wind. No paint booth; just in the courtyard open sky. After some pattern adjustments, the combination of paint and sprayer works well. I am not a professional, but I like the result, which is much nicer than brushing.

Paint is dried to touch after 1 hour. It seems to dry pretty hard, but can't tell for sure until it cures in 1-2 days.

Thorough cleaning the spray equipment took about 15 minutes. Warm water + soap. Zero mess.