Questions about running XP virtual machine on win8

[Kev Williams]

I posted up about my new Win8 computer awhile back, bottom line is it's pretty much useless for my work because I can't get my old equipment drivers to load-- Got some suggestions to use Virtualbox. I downloaded it and it's all seeming too easy! I'm installing XP right now--

My questions---

(1) Do I have to load up all the service packs and updates? One thing I've always loved is how XP runs like greased lightning right out of the box. I realize the upgrades are necessary because of online threats, but, I need XP ***ONLY*** to run my Corel and Gravostyle programs, and to install machine drivers to run machines. So, I don't need XP connected to the internet at all. HOWEVER--

(2) I would still like the Win8 host connected to the internet--so, can XP as a virtual machine be blocked from the internet separate from Win8? Will the VM show up as a separate computer on my router? I'm thinking not, so if so, is there a way to keep the VM off the internet while allowing the host ON?

If I have to download SP3 and all I will, I'd just rather not..

thanks in advance! :)

[Art Mulder]

Virtualbox is totally customizable on a per-virtual-machine basis. So you can configure your XP virtual machine to NOT have a network. (and of course you could also just login to the XP machine and disable it's network) You can configure it to have access to the USB so it can talk to your printers or whatever they are.

Your virtual machine will not even SEE the router unless you configure it to access the network.

Typically, you would have the virtualbox management software run NAT (network address translation) to access the network, so from the router's point of view it is your Host Win8 computer that is accessing the network.

[Kev Williams]

For this to work this computer must be on the network-

I have 14 machines and 3 printers (2 wireless) connected to 7 computers in various ways. If you look at my network, the E-machines computer is my "main" computer, it's the one I'm using now. I have 3 computers that are proprietary to the machines connected to them. This computer runs all other machines thru its own ports, and the IBM 'print server' ports.

My whole goal is pretty simple- I need the Win8 computer to run my Corel and Gravostyle programs because they're bogging down the E-machine. And I need to be able to run the machines from the Win8, which I can't because of driver problems. This is why I need the XP virtual machine.

I also need to add a USB-serial adapter to the new computer to run the 3rd 3400 machine and get rid of the switchbox, then I'll finally have NO machine-sharing. That should be no problem. (can't believe there's not a single PCI slot on this motherboard!)

[Dan Hintz]

Not sure if I should be envious of your toy list or relieved I don't have to support that networked scheme ;)

[Kev Williams]

what can I say, it works! Except win8... lol..

OK, got XP loaded, I've never done a virtual anything before so, it's learning-curve time..

From XP I can access the modem/router, and it DOES show the VM as a separate computer! So right now I'm using the win8 to type this, and XP has no internet access! Perfect! I tried it both ways, so XP IS able to access the net if I want! For now I don't want... :)

Next up, load programs and drivers!

[Myk Rian]

Virtualbox org is a great resource.

[Alan Caro]

I posted up about my new Win8 computer awhile back, bottom line is it's pretty much useless for my work because I can't get my old equipment drivers to load-- Got some suggestions to use Virtualbox. I downloaded it and it's all seeming too easy! I'm installing XP right now--

My questions---

(1) Do I have to load up all the service packs and updates? One thing I've always loved is how XP runs like greased lightning right out of the box. I realize the upgrades are necessary because of online threats, but, I need XP ***ONLY*** to run my Corel and Gravostyle programs, and to install machine drivers to run machines. So, I don't need XP connected to the internet at all. HOWEVER--

(2) I would still like the Win8 host connected to the internet--so, can XP as a virtual machine be blocked from the internet separate from Win8? Will the VM show up as a separate computer on my router? I'm thinking not, so if so, is there a way to keep the VM off the internet while allowing the host ON?

If I have to download SP3 and all I will, I'd just rather not..

thanks in advance! :)

Kev Williams,

In 2010, after changing from Windows XP Pro 64-bit to Windows 7 Ultimate 64-bit, I discovered that several of my favorite programs on which I relied heavily> especially Corel Graphics Suite 12 and WordPerfect 12. The most visible problem was that PhotoPaint 12 would only open one *.JPG at a time, but I tried other programs, I saw an increasing number of problems. Even trusty WordPerfect- which I had used since the days of DOS in 1993, was quirky and would sometimes display text over text. I really object to computers that have "sometimes" in their descriptions,..

I contacted Corel and their response was that they had decided that it was too complex to try and make every version of their product run on every operating system and in short> their "Version 12" products were no longer guaranteed to run on Windows 7. By coincidence, just an hour ago, I tried opening a 1994 file made in WP 6.1 DOS and it opened perfectly in WP X4, so the old files work even if the old application don't.

Though it's understandable from a technical and business standpoint, I was annoyed at the prospect of having to replace $600 of software that was perfectly adequate to my use, so I added an XP virtual machine to my Windows 7 Ultimate. This was not difficult to do, but was time-consuming because every piece of software had to be installed on the virtual machine. The real problem was that while the virtual machine worked, it took a very long time to load- longer than starting the system cold- and response time seemed noticeably reduced. As the applications were so important to work, I quite quickly abandoned the VM idea and purchased new software.

Suggestion > My suggestion is to consider creating a dual boot system with the Windows 8 and XP configured so that there are independent operating systems and software selected on start-up, each running natively. In this way, the CAD/CAM drivers will not be running through any emulation process. Because you need to load the software independently to virtual machines anyway, this process is not significantly more involved. I've never made a dual-boot system, but here has to be piles of YouTube videos and how-to forum posts. Given the complexity of your network/ nodes it should be relatively simple. Of course, you can configure the XP to load without automatically connecting to the Internet, sound, and possibly even boot to different graphics cards. I think it's almost impossible to load an OS without Internet connection initially. I've eard of systems in which the alternate OS is booted from a flash drive. I assume that is done by specifying a boot order > if there is a flash drive detected it will boot from that, if not it will go on to detect an HD. One advantage of not having the Web permanently connected is that you can turn off all automatic updates so these will not interrupt work. I have a third system for sound recording and I had occasions where updates to software and the anti-virus interrupted and kicked the recording off.

There may be ways to organize the disk effectively in which the OS's can run from partitions which would protect the XP system from Internet attack. As I say, I haven't configured a dual boot system, but I can say that the XP virtual machine within Windows 7 was not a viable choice for me.

The other choice would be to have separate systems, one Win8 for CAD modeling, business, Web, etc., and the second purely XP for machine operations. It's possible to buy very competent Dell Precision T3500's and even T7500's in the $400-500 range that could be the XP workhorse. I kept my previous Precision T5400 and intend to dedicate it to running renderings while the new system is free for CAD 2D and 3D modeling and graphics.

Alan Caro

HP z420 (2013) > Xeon E5-1620 quad core @ 3.6 / 3.8GHz > 24GB ECC 1600 > Quadro 4000 (2GB)> Samsung 840 SSD 250GB /Western Digital WD1003FZEX 1TB> M-Audio 192 sound card > AE3000 USB WiFi // HP 2711X, 27" 1920 X 1080 // Windows 7 Ultimate 64 > Autodesk Building Design Suite, Inventor, Solidworks, Adobe CS MC, Corel Technical Design Sketchup Pro, WordP Office, MS Office Pro

Dell Precision T5400 (2009)(Rendering System) > 2X Xeon X5460 quad core @3.16GHz > 16GB ECC 667> Quadro FX 4800 (1.5GB) > WD RE4 500GB / Seagate Barracuda 500GB > M-Audio 2496 Sound Card > Linksys 600N WiFi // Dell 24" LCD // Windows 7 Ultimate 64-bit > AutoCad, Revit, VRay, 3DSMax, Sketchup Pro, Adobe CS MC, Corel Technical Design Sketchup Pro, WordP Office, MS Office

[Kev Williams]

Alan, this is my first experience with a virtual machine, other than my BIL who works with me who just bought a Mac laptop with a Win7 VM built in from the getgo. Pretty cool actually-- But I REALLY wouldn't know how to do a dual-boot. Sounds interesting, because I really don't care about Win8, I just want a really fast, efficient XP!

FWIW, I have a copy of XP w/SP2 that loads with no internet support whatsoever.

Where I'm at right now: I have XP all loaded, SP3 and about 200 updates loaded up. I have Gravo 5.3, Gravo 7 and my Corel x3 installed. XP is running like greased lightning compared to my E-machine. Corel loads nearly instantly, files on other computers on the network open and work instantly. "Instantly" is simply something I'm not used to, and is exactly what I'm looking for with this setup, and so far I'm not disappointed!

HOWEVER-- the fly in the ointment is my USB ports. I have the wireless keyboard/mouse combo, 2 Gravo dongles and a 32gig flash drive in the USB ports. While the VM shows them attached in the VM devices menu, the only thing working is the keyboard and mouse. The dongles and flash drive do zilch. I've added them in the "filters" menu, no help. If I click on them in the device menu I get an error message that states the "USB failed to attach to the VM"... So, I can get them to work on the Win8 side, but when I switch to XP, they all go dead (the dongles and FD all have leds, and they go off). And when I switch back to Win8, they're STILL dead. As soon as I shut down XP they pop back on on Win8.

This is probably just part of my computer curse ;)

If I can just get past this USB issue, I'll be golden!

[Alan Caro]

Kev Williams,

The USB problem in virtual XP seems related to problems I had with my virtual XP in running the sound card and which I never solved before removing the VM. In the case of USB support in your XP VM, the drivers are probably loaded first thing when booting in Win8 (it's an option to boot from USB drives so the drivers must be running right away), but may not be not loading in the XP VM as it is running more like an application and it is not a restart. Or, it may be trying to run USB drivers that are too new to be recognized by XP. You might compare the Win 8 USB drivers (System > Device Manager > Universal Serial Bus controllers > Properties) to those in the XP Device Manager. Also, check if the "This device is working properly" or there are any helpful error messages. If not, try the "update this driver" button on each USB device listed. It's possible that the Win 8 is trying to use drivers that are simply too new- for example USB 3.0, to be recognized by your XP even if XP has been updated. USB standard are supposed to be fully backwards compatible but the VM has to communicate across platforms or in some way an emulation, I think trying to update the USB device drivers in XP would be a good start.

Another item to check is the system BIOS and I recommend updating that to the latest. If you haven't done this previously, at startup, go to your setup screen, make a note of the version number, back up the original BIOS, go to the manufacturer of your system, enter the model number and the OS you're using and if it much newer, download the (tiny) *.exe - a program that will self-install. This is not universally helpful as in some cases of using an older OS, the older BIOS may be preferable, so try this after updating the USB drivers first. In the case of the device drivers, there is a button to roll back to the previous driver and you can also run an .exe of the older BIOS. I've read quite a number of people having problems with Win 8 with drivers for their older devices not working properly.

I might be missing something, but is it possible to have all the machine control systems running XP and have only the design/setup/sequence system running Windows 8? I ask as I had a look at my Corel Technical Designer X-5 and it will save Techical Designer (*.des) back to CorelDraw 7.0 files, and XP will read up to V 12 files natively. If this would work, you could desing and set the cutting sequences in WIn 8 but save the files as CorelDraw 12 and send them to the XP machines. I'm not an expert with networks, but I believe you can have nodes with different OS's.

If the USB problem seems insurmountable, I recommend a YouTube search "How to dual boot Win 8 and XP". I just had a quick look and that search produced 51,000 choices, including choices for when Win8 is loaded first and XP after and vice versa. As always with YouTube, the problem is sorting through useful videos. Except for people using programs like Oracle VMWare that are programming, I almost never hear of anyone using virtual XP, but are instead having dual boot systems because of driver conflicts.

Yes, computers do sometimes seem cursed and I've been so frustrated at times, I magically learned to swear and threaten them in Hungarian, "Látom az én kristálygömb # # # # # # # Windows dobálnak a windows". "I see in my crystal ball ####### Windows being thrown through windows". I was reluctant to start with them at all, but in 1993 was going to be publishing and had to provide digital files. At about that time, architecture more commonly was being done in CAD and eventually 3D, so I've had twenty years of the digital curse. Worse, to stay in business I was forced to learn how to solve the problems- it's like owning a British sports car, essential to use it, except without the fun when it's working.

I just don't like anything I've ever seen or heard about Windows 8, from the deleted Start button, which MS was forced to bring back in "8.1"- to the "tiles" that replace icons and are really intended for mobile touch screens. I've used every MS OS since DOS 6, and Windows 95 was by far the worst, XP Pro 64-bit the best, and will be skipping Win 8 entirely. When I bought my new system in November (13), I had a choice of Windows 7 or 8 and like most of the buyers of workstations,..

Alan Caro

[Rick Moyer]

I'm not very computer savvy, but I was wondering if this will be a problem when XP is no longer supported? April 8th, 2014 is the date given for no more support; i.e., no more virus software updates, etc.

[Kev Williams]

Well, does anyone have a recommendation for another virtual-machine resource other than Virtualbox?

Turns out Virtualbox, as of yet, has no support for USB 3.0, and guess what my HP/Win8 computer is filled with? http://www.engraver1.com/gifs/nilly.gif

So, as much as I love the XP VM as it is, it's of no use without USB ports...

>>heavy sigh<<

[Graham Wintersgill]

Kev

I thought USB 3 was backward compatible? This might be worth a try:

http://www.techrepublic.com/blog/windows-and-office/make-usb-devices-accessible-to-a-windows-xp-virtual-machine/

[David Masters]

I hope I'm not leading you down a rathole, but maybe look at installing a USB 2.0 PCI card in your computer? On Amazon, these run under $20.

[Mark P. Miller]

I use VMWare player quite a bit, and like it. I don't know if it has USB 3 though.

This seems to be a thread where some people were discussing some options with VMWare player.

https://communities.vmware.com/thread/454910

Some people talked about disabling USB 3 capabilities in BIOS, which forces them to default to 2.0. Others mentioned trying to put a USB 2 hub inline with the dongle to force a 2.0 connection. David's suggestion above may be more robust though.

Good luck.

[Kev Williams]

Virtualbox has support via an upgrade download for USB 2.0, which I've installed. No help.

Today we (my BIL and I) tried the hub trick- the hub would light up, but not the dongles or flash drive. The instant I start XP the USB ports go dead, and won't work even for Win8 until I shut down XP. As soon as the shutdown-music starts, the ports fire back up. Frustrating!

Can't install a PCI anything in this new computer, no place to put one. There's all of one slot on the MB, and I'm not even sure what it is, but it's not PCI.

I'll give the bios a try, it's worth a shot--

I'll look into VMware too, thanks! :)