Recommendations for a guide system....

[Steve Swail]

Greetings to all....I am seeking some feedback and opinions on some type of guided system for cutting sheet goods to size. I'm in the process of "setting up" a small, hobbyist workshop (1/2 of a two car garage) and am trying to either buy or build the most useable items. I know we all make purchasing mistakes but I hate to spend money only to look back a short time later and say, "boy, I wish I would have gotten this or that instead"....I currently have an MM16 bandsaw and a combo J/P. I just built and attached to one wall a 3' wide x 12' long bench to use for my sliding miter saw. I was all set for my next project to be a quality workbench (got the plans for the Veritas modern bench just waiting for me) but after reading several posts on here and other sites I am now wondering if that is a wise thing. What are your opinions on the Festool MTF systems? I know Jerry Work just wrote a great manual for using them but I haven't read all of it yet....Thanks for your help and advise.

Steve

[Don Baer]

Steve;

I saw a contractor frien of mine using one like this for ripping and it works realy good. Here is a link on how to build it. I have looked at the expensive guides and maybe someday I'll buy htme but for just ripping this will get the job done.

http://benchnotes.com/Skillsaw%20Guide/skillsaw_cutting_guide_boa.htm

since I am a hobbiest I prefer to spend my money on other tools and material. Maybe that will change when I win the lottery.

[Bill Fields]

Steve--Really depends on how often/seldom you have to cut sheet goods. In my case it is perhaps 10-12 per year.

I bought a 2 x 6 steel stud at the borg and clamped at both ends it does the job. Crude.

If I were cutting more often, I'd make the simple crossed 2x 4 support. If I were a contractor or cabinet shop I would get either the Festool or the Eureka set up.

BILL FIELDS

[Jay Knoll]

Steve

Check out this month's issue of Workbench for plans for a small shop panel saw -- very interesting

That being said, I bought several components of the Festool system last fall and have been completely satisfied. Your question always seems to provoke a lot of response on this forum, hang on to your hat! :eek:

A lot depends on what you need, if you've got a good circular hand saw, then other guided systems should be considered

If you don't have a good saw, and are interested in a system approach, then check out the Festool stuff, it isn't cheap, but I have to tell you I have done things I never thought I could with the guides and saw and/or router attached.

Do a search on guided saw systems and you'll find a ton of information.

Jay

[Chris Padilla]

Steve,

As Jay alluded to, just do a search on "guided saw system" and you will find more stuff than you care to read. People on here get very passionate about two particular vendors of such systems...both have already been mentioned above.

Happy reading! :)

[Greg Mann]

Steve--Really depends on how often/seldom you have to cut sheet goods. In my case it is perhaps 10-12 per year.
snipped
BILL FIELDS

Steve,
I quoted Bill here because he alludes to sheet goods, implying that this is where the GCSSs are most used. Your question seems more about the MFT than the GCSSs. I suggest you finish Jerry Work's MFT manual before you make any decisions. You may have already noted that he almost never works with sheet goods but is still thrilled with the use to which he can put the MFT on dimensioned material. He stresses what he refers to as mirroring; the symmetrical alignment of dadoes, slots, or sliding dovetails, and assembly; either in glue-up of panels or assembling of finished furniture components.
If you believe these are the areas of most use to you then I would think you would benefit immensely from the MFT. You did not mention a TS, in fact, you did not even mention the GCSS, so we should not really assume those are necessarily part of your question. Of course, to get full benefit of the MFT you would probably want to invest in the circular saw and a compatible router. Short of that, it would not be particularly difficult to adapt an existing router to the guiderail you would get with the MFT. I think many of us tend to think of the MFT as a platform for machining (sawing and routing) but Jerry has opened our eyes to many more creative ways to use it. Its weaknesses? I don't really like it for handplane work or chisel work. You can do it, but not too elegantly.

Greg

[Dan Forman]

Steve,
Its weaknesses? I don't really like it for handplane work or chisel work. You can do it, but not too elegantly.
Greg

This is really the crux of the matter. If you want to do much in the way of hand planing, you will want something with greater rigidity. Any movement of your support surface represents energy which should have been delivered to the workpiece by the plane blade. This makes you work harder to make up for the diverted energy, and can also introduce irregularities in the planed surface. That said, I too am considering getting the MFT, but as an addition to rather than substitute for a solid workbench.

Dan

[Steve Rowe]

Steve,

I have the Festool AFT55 and guide rail system. It works great for cutting sheet goods. I don't have the MFT table but, it is on my list to purchase in the future. Festool offers a 30 day money back guarantee so, if you get it and don't like it you could always send it back. Not much risk in that deal.
Steve

[Scott Coffelt]

Steve,

Not that you realized it, but the pot has been stirred, the sleeping giant has awaken..... :p :D :eek:

There are some serious feelings on GSSS that have been quite heavily debated over the last several months.

I will some it up with 3 takes:
1) Low Cost Version - Make your own, using a really straight piece of wood or other and attach that to a piece of hardboard. Use your CS and cut the edge. $

2) Bring Your Own CS System - These units not to bring up a name of any, allow you to use your own CS and then you use there guide rails. There are several out there, but one seems to get the most attention here. $$

3) Saw included system - These include the saw with the guide rails, you mentioned the only one I am familiar with. $$$

I have included dollar signs to represent the upfront cost to get started, assuming you already have a CS. Personally I used to use option one, with marginal success, mainly due to inaccuracies in my guide. I tried the other two and choose to personally go with a new saw system. Anyone of these will work for cutting down sheet goods, some have had great succes with #1. For most though i would suggest #2 or #3. Honestly, the choice between those two needs to come from you, your needs, your future plans, and also your funds. If you budget is a few hundred dollars and you have a CS you may find the second option best, whereas, if no budget concerns and/or do not have a good CS #3 may be best.

There I hope I gave you good input while trying not to stir the dreaded debate. If you would like more private input or opinions, please email or PM me.

[Jim Becker]

I've been using the MFT more and more in my shop and wouldn't give it up at this point. It really helps me do things "with ease" that I couldn't accomplish "with ease" on my cabinet saw, particularly with regard to working with sheet goods. This includes both cutting with the ATF-55 and routing with both the OF 1010 and OF 1400. (I also use the "regular" guide rails away from the MFT when appropriate)

I do recomment the larger unit and am glad I went that route. Good stuff... Talk to SMC member and woodworker Bob Marino if you have any detailed questions about the MFT not getting answered here. He's good, too.

[Bill Fields]

Greetings to all....I am seeking some feedback and opinions on some type of guided system for cutting sheet goods to size. I'm in the process of "setting up" a small, hobbyist workshop (1/2 of a two car garage) and am trying to either buy or build the most useable items. I know we all make purchasing mistakes but I hate to spend money only to look back a short time later and say, "boy, I wish I would have gotten this or that instead"....I currently have an MM16 bandsaw and a combo J/P. I just built and attached to one wall a 3' wide x 12' long bench to use for my sliding miter saw. I was all set for my next project to be a quality workbench (got the plans for the Veritas modern bench just waiting for me) but after reading several posts on here and other sites I am now wondering if that is a wise thing. What are your opinions on the Festool MTF systems? I know Jerry Work just wrote a great manual for using them but I haven't read all of it yet....Thanks for your help and advise.

Steve

I agree with Greg. The Festool system is far beyond cutting sheet goods--but you said cutting sheet goods was your issue.

Also, while I would (and I will overcome this) find it hard to lay out the $400-500 expense of an Eureka of Festool system, this is hard to justify for me, a hobbyist.

I also noted a limited-space work environment. I don't really suffer much from that as I have a 3-car garage and the vehicles live outside--but not well.

It was 106 here today and will be 108 + tomorow.

My advice: a couple of sturdy sawhorses, used outside, and a carefully placed steel 2 x 6 stud, plus careful measuring and a good CS.

BILL FIELDS

[Dave Falkenstein]

I am a relatively recent convert to the Festool system. I am also a hobbyist woodworker, although I do projects for "fun and profit", and I use those funds to buy new and exciting tools. The Festool GCSS is simply terrific. The EZSmart approach might be terrific too, but my experience is with Festool. Festool not a $400-$500 investment - it is more like $750 for a starter set of a guide rail, circular saw and dust extractor (vacuum). The Festool system really is a system, and the guide rails and dust extractor are common to most of the rest of the system. You can easily spend well over $2000 on Festool tools and guide rails. You can build on the system slowly, or make the leap as I did a few months ago. I love great tools, and I love my decision to get into Festool.

The MFT is a wonderfully flat work surface that is very versatile and useful in cutting, clamping, glue-ups, sanding and other workbench uses. I don't do hand planing, so the MFT is plenty sturdy for all my uses.

Cutting sheet goods with the CS and guide rails is a breeze - far, far easier, more accurate and better cut quality than any other method I have tried in about 30 years of home-shop woodworking.

All of the above is, of course, IMHO.

[Steve Rybicki]

For many years I used a home-made guide. It cut accurately, but not until I bought the EZ Guide did I realize it's short comings. The biggest being the poor edge left by the home-made guide. The no-chip base on the EZ guide is something I would buy even if I thought i could get by with using a straightedge to guide it. So, even if the speed of set-up, and versatility isn't important, the cut quality probably is. The edge left by the no-chip base is about as perfect as it gets. An added advantage is the same great edge is left on the waste side, which often gets used elsewhere. It's nice to not have to re-cut it to get that good edge. I believe you can buy just the base and anti-chip inserts if you want to save money, and use it with your own guide.

[Paul Berendsohn]

Hi Steve...

Welcome to Saw Mill Creek.

Gee, it's been weeks since we had this discussion. ;)

The first thing you need to do is ask yourself a few things:

Do you want antichip/splintering on both edges? Even off the guide rail?

Would you like a bidirectional guide system so you'll never have to flip the guide, or worry that damaging an edge would put you out of commission?

Do you want the guide rail that has been widely recognized as the most rigid with connectors that are the most precise and secure?

Do you want a true system solution that will work with any circ saw, router, planer, etc without being locked into one brand?

Would you like to be able to cut the narrowest of workpieces safely and accurately without cobbling up solutions?

Would you like absolute accuracy and speed for repeated cuts with integrated measuring?

If so, there's really very little debate (inside joke :D ) get a SmartGuide system. www.eurekazone.com (http://www.eurekazone.com/)

Happy to answer any questions you may have...

Best Wishes,

Paul B

(edited for typos... where DO they come from?)

[Ron Taylor]

Mornin' Steve and welcome to the creek..

After reading all of the responses I had to go back and reread your original post to find out what the question was :)

There are a couple of factors you didn't mention.... cost.... availability or intentions regarding other power tools, etc. You did mention a space limitation and that you are just setting up and didn't want to make hasty decision that may later bite. In that regard, I would recommend Don's suggestion, a homemade guide for the CS. I use just that solution and am quite pleased with it. I do considerable sheet goods work alone, and at approaching 60, I just don't feel like swinging a 3/4" sheet of plywood around, even though I have a good TS and plenty of space.

So, I cut down to size with my homemade CS guide, then do final cuts and smaller stock on the TS, BS, RAS, CMS, router table, or whatever seems appropriate at the time. Actually, the homemade guide is true enough that for stuff like cabinet carcasses, I just cut to dimension. As for clean edges, with a good sharp blade on the CS, I am satisfied.

My cost is zero since I built the guide from scrap, and I'm happy with the solution until I have all of the other toys that I covet.

[Jeff Sudmeier]

As always there isn't any one solution to this "problem". You have been told the three most popular ways. I personally own option two, the Eureka Guide. I really like it. However, it is by no means the end all solution. Take a good look at all three options and decide the one that is best for you as only you know what your needs are.

[Ray Bersch]

(edited for typos... where DO they come from?)

TYPOS (Greek) is a central nervous system disorder that affects the operation of the fingers and is most often exhibited as spelling errors in e-mail or web site postings. However, this conditon may also exhibit itself in other forms such as making the wrong cut mark on a board, especially if combined with "burning" an inch or when a government official says something in print that looks bad when printed. The errors are usually random and not numerous. However, a sever case of TYPOS may be the root cause of a very long, often testy, string of replys to an innocent question on a web site forum - such as "Which is the best airplane to fly, a high wing or low wing?" There is no known cure for run of the mill TYPOS, however, the best treatment for a severe case of TYPOS is taking two or three short breaths while counting to ten.

Ray
(Hay, a little humor - we've gone 15 posts on this subject without getting testy, cool - besides, I am in a bad mood and needed to laugh at myself.)

[Frank Pellow]

(Hay, a little humor - we've gone 15 posts on this subject without getting testy, cool - besides, I am in a bad mood and needed to laugh at myself.)
And indeed, a good laugh :D you did provide us with Ray. Thanks!