Strange Trotec Problem - Help!

[Tony saunders]

juGuys,

My Trotec Speedy 400 has developed a very strange problem - and as usual it's the weekend (!)

The engraving of text is all screwed up - with the correct depth in the middle, fading out to either end.

A client noticed it the other day and I thought the material was bowed - but I tried some tests tonight in the shop and it's definitely repeatable.

I have tried it on two separate machines - both loaded with Job Control X 10.0.1.0

I have restarted everything and no difference.

Mirrors / lens are clean - no junk in the nozzle.

I'm at a loss and I need to work over the weekend - Trotec is shut.:( Machine is only about six months old. 80W CO2.

Has anyone seen this before? - or any suggestions as to what I might be able to do?

Pic Attached...
280125
Thanks in advance
Tony

[Dan Hintz]

Can you copy the text and put them side-by-side for another test (or just make the same text wider)? If you get the same pattern over the group as a whole, that points to a low-level processing issue (i.e., the driver)... the laser is being reduced in power as it nears the end of the line. If that's not it, we can work from there.

[Tony saunders]

Can you copy the text and put them side-by-side for another test (or just make the same text wider)? If you get the same pattern over the group as a whole, that points to a low-level processing issue (i.e., the driver)... the laser is being reduced in power as it nears the end of the line. If that's not it, we can work from there.

Hi Dan,

Thanks for the quick reply. It's late here in the UK - I thought I wouldn't get an answer until tomorrow.

Okay, see attached. Done what you said - expanded text and added several other copies at different sizes.
Looks like the same issue.

BTW: I made a mistake - JobControl is 10.1.0.1 - Firmware is 10.07
You'll notice too that the hanging parts of 'gy' at the end are engraved differently as the laserhead just engraves these optimally.

I have tried it on two different PC's both with JobControl loaded. All has been okay until very recently.

Incidentally, the power is 100% and Speed 30 for the attached test with 600dpi output from CorelDraw. It's a standard output - not bitmap / relief or anything like that.

I have tried vectors (circle) and it appears to be doing the same but not as noticeably. It cuts okay though!... just engraving seems to be affected!

Pic attached:
280126

Regards
Tony

[Scott Shepherd]

Tony, look up the Trotec website, find the number for the tech support in Canada. They are still open. Call them. They should help you, but make it snappy, it's not much time left!

[Mark Sipes]

Is there something in the water? was there a recent update that has issues?

"Just noticed that when I laser anything large approximately 18" wide, the laser seems to loose power on the far right and left. Could this be some sort of focus issue?
Does anyone have any thoughts on this?

Thanks

Tami "

[Tony saunders]

@Scott : Good point - will try this now...

@Mark - Interesting!... although I haven't changed firmware or JobControl versions since about five months ago. Nothing has been changed since so if it is related to an update, it shouldn't have affected me (unless JobControl performs auto-updates which I don't think it does).

... back soon...

[David Somers]

A silly question, but is there a Trotec presence in the Hawaiian/Pacific Islands? They are 3 hours earlier than us and should be open another 2.5 hours?

Dave

[Tony saunders]

Well, no luck getting Canada. I'll have to ring UK monday but in meantime try to see if I can do anything to solve the issue. If I can find it I may re-install the Firmware and jobcontrol too...

I have a gut feeling it's hardware / firmware related (just a guess) but I have tried two PC's and two USB cables. Both of which worked before and now exhibit the same issue. Laser has been restarted, checked for obstructions and dirt. Mirrors look absolutely fine. Lens is clean and installed okay (2.0" lens), software settings look to be the same as before and I haven't changed anything anyway.

just one other thing I noticed and thought odd...

i have been cutting some parts from MDF and noticed that, just as the cutting is finished, the laser pauses, the table dips about half an inch and rises back... Then the laser goes to to home position. (?)

it was almost as though it had a value in the Z offset and was defocussing...!

I don't recall it ever doing that before either... And I feel that this isn't just a coincidence ?!?

Any more advice guys?

cheers
Tony

[Dan Hintz]

The fact that it is position independent says it's unlikely to be a mechanical issue. It appears to be affecting a specific (and fixed) length... 1.5 letters on the first one, 2 on the next one down, 3 on the bottom one, etc. as the text gets smaller. This strengthens my belief it's a driver issue where the laser power is being reduced improperly during accel/decel.

Steve, can you verify if Trotec is:
1) Overshooting the engraving area during accel/decel
OR
2) Staying within the engraving bounding box and increasing/decreasing power during accel/decel
?

[matthew knott]

I'm pretty sure they always overshot the engraving area, they should be upto speed when they hit the engraving area, can you set the direction of scan to be uni-directional , this looks to me like it could be the tube not ramping up power in time for some odd reason, if the scan is bi-directional you would see this at both ends (as is the case) uni would swap it all to the leading edge. Just a thought

[Tony saunders]

Dan,

Good points. FYI - It's overshooting the engraving area by approximately 1/2" - maybe less around 10mm - but thereabouts... (it always has done this and the 300 I had did also.) NOTE: This is when the laser is running at about P100 S50 - I have just dropped power settings to P50 and S10 - and the overshoot is obviously less - barely 1/8 inch!

Interestingly, I went to bed last night just after talking to you guys ... fired it up this morning after a power-down of about 8 hours - the engraving is better - "almost" okay this morning - but not perfect. Still exhibiting the problem but considerably less! - almost useable!

Now, yesterday the laser wasn't that busy - in fact less than normal, so I don't think anything was likely to be overheating.

Matthew - If it's possible to set bi / uni direction, it's not obvious in JobControl. Nothing I can see in SETTINGS or PLATE Properties, although I will try to see what happens if I change the orientation of engraving to portrait rather than landscape (so it moves up and down in Y rather than back and forth in X)

I have some expensive Oak plinths to engrave and I just can't trust it because I can't afford even one mistake. Best safe than sorry I think. :(

Thanks for your help so far guys - it's better than scratching my head when I'm on my tod in the shop. :)

Cheers
T

[Tony saunders]

UPDATE:

I tried the vertical engraving at P100 S50 - and the laser wasn't firing. I dropped the laser power while it was running by manually tweaking the values and the laser fired briefly, then didn't.

I then dropped speed to 20 - nothing much

I then entered a speed of 5 - the laser fired and engraved deep (not surprisingly!)

I therefore played about and running it at P50 and S10 it engraves perfectly (no discernible variances across the words)

Something is still not right though - for some reason, the manual changing of speeds (normally instant) - sometimes doesn't have an affect! - I think a re-install of the JobControl software from scratch is called for.

T

[TAMI WILSON]

Tony

I just had the same problem. Trotec said it was the Job control and firmware. They are sending new but I haven't installed yet. My 300 I is about
a year old also.

Tami

[Tony saunders]

Hi Tami,

Thanks for that info.

I was reading your thread earlier - that's good news really in the scheme of things.

I wonder what screwed up?? - must be the interaction between JC and firmware by the sound of it. Otherwise, I would have expected my backup machine to have worked if I had screwed up JC on the main PC.

Be interested to hear how you get on.

I have just engraved at slow speed and lower power and it looks fine! - it's not ideal but better than a messed up part. :)

Regards
Tony

[Dan Hintz]

Yep, sounding more and more like the driver.

[Mike Null]

I would concur that it is a driver issue. I have recently noted another quirk in mine where JC alters a rectangle (used for name tags) making it an open curve disconnected at the top corners. I'm still able to run the jobs but there is a driver issue that I haven't had time to call about.

[Scott Shepherd]

I wonder is there wasn't a windows update recently.

You can always try uninstalling the driver and starting over. Not just installing it, but uninstalling it and installing it again.

[Mike Null]

Steve

You may be onto something as it has been perfect until this past week.

[Tony saunders]

Thanks guys - I will go through an uninstall and re-install (as you suggested Scott)

There could have been a Windows update it's true:

My backup machine runs Windows VISTA SP2 32 bit. updated a week ago...

The main PC runs Windows Pro 64bit - and has update settings to manual. It is awaiting about 107 updates so not been updated recently.

T

[matthew knott]

I have loads of trotec reps right in front of me right now, I would ask them what they think it might be, but I don't want to upset them! Did the driver reinstall work?

[Tony saunders]

Hi Matthew,

I couldn't try it - I was cutting art stencils until about 2.am this morning and again just now - the chap has just gone with them.

I didn't want to screw it up completely so I ran it slow. As I was mostly cutting I thought it would be okay. As it happened, it stutters when cutting around complex geometry that changes direction many times in a small area (around Leon trotsky's hair ! - don't ask!)

So, as yet i have made no progress. Sorry.

I am at Trophex tomorrow (I am guessing you are there today?) so will have spoken to support on way to NEC and will speak to them at the stand.

definately a problem though... I have to go painfully slow to get results... Like driving a ferrari in a playground!
T

[Kev Williams]

I didn't notice anyone touch on this (but I didn't read every word ;) ) -- the tops of all 3 lower case L's in 'technology were engraved at approx. the same power as the end letters-- I supposed that's because they ARE the end letters until the laser hit the shorter letters. The tails of the gy are very weak...

The laser will decelerate the speed of the head during fast engraving as it nears the end of the engraving travel to lessen the shock of the turnaround. As it does this the laser power must be lowered to compensate for the lower speed. Then there's the brief moment in time for acceleration to full speed, again requiring lower laser output. Tony and Tami (sounds like a new TV show? ;) ) both are having issues with the lower power on decel being way too low. Tami noted by engraving slow, the problem was semi-solved, this is because there's little if any deceleration needed because it's already running slow, and therefore little if any laser power adjustment needed. Tony also noted his laser failed to fire at times. Also, the lower gy engraving would always be done at the lower speed/lower power setting. Simple explanation to me (at least) is the lower power is much lower than it should be...

I doubt it's a driver/firmware problem, seems to me either their controllers are going south, or their tubes are...

[Dan Hintz]

I didn't notice anyone touch on this (but I didn't read every word ;) ) -- the tops of all 3 lower case L's in 'technology were engraved at approx. the same power as the end letters-- I supposed that's because they ARE the end letters until the laser hit the shorter letters. The tails of the gy are very weak...

The laser will decelerate the speed of the head during fast engraving as it nears the end of the engraving travel to lessen the shock of the turnaround. As it does this the laser power must be lowered to compensate for the lower speed. Then there's the brief moment in time for acceleration to full speed, again requiring lower laser output. Tony and Tami (sounds like a new TV show? ;) ) both are having issues with the lower power on decel being way too low. Tami noted by engraving slow, the problem was semi-solved, this is because there's little if any deceleration needed because it's already running slow, and therefore little if any laser power adjustment needed. Tony also noted his laser failed to fire at times. Also, the lower gy engraving would always be done at the lower speed/lower power setting. Simple explanation to me (at least) is the lower power is much lower than it should be...

I doubt it's a driver/firmware problem, seems to me either their controllers are going south, or their tubes are...

It's the driver that controls the power level during all operations, including the accel/decel part (in actuality, the firmware on the laser itself is likely making the modification since the driver itself is merely sending along a line of data to engrave, but that's neither here nor there). In a nutshell, the software/firmware is incorrectly adjusting the power during the accel/decel phase of the run, hence the reduced depth. It is highly unlikely that two systems show the same fault in the same manner at the same time... the tubes/controllers are fine. The fact that slower speeds show less of an issue is because the driver does not need to modify the laser power as much due to slower accel/decel.

[Tony saunders]

I've logged it with UK support because I'm at Trophex tomorrow, however I will update once I have some feedback.

Thanks for the ideas and support over the weekend. I have been able to use the laser by running it at about 1/5th to 1/4 speed and it's been 'useable' but painful to watch it crawling about when it usually zips...

thankfully, the machine is under warranty still (!)

cheers
T

[matthew knott]

Hope you get it fixed Tony, if you get a chance come and say hi, I'm on the Halo laser stand, not far from epilog and trotec stands, it's not a big show but there some great gadgets here !
Matt

[Kev Williams]

Dan, my mistake, I know that the firmware is part of the laser side of things, wasn't thinking on that one! ;)

[Tony saunders]

Hope you get it fixed Tony, if you get a chance come and say hi, I'm on the Halo laser stand, not far from epilog and trotec stands, it's not a big show but there some great gadgets here !
Matt

Hi Matt,

Sorry - only just logged on! ...got back about 2 hours ago.

It was a good day - shame I didn't see your post - I would have popped by to say hi. Are you at any other shows this year? - Mach?

Cheers
Tony

[Tony saunders]

Hi Guys,

I've spent about a half-hour session with Trotec's excellent UK support and the problem is now 'fixed' - well, there is a solution (!)
They don't know why it has started but have had this issue reported by a few others.

Relatively quick fix:
Upgrade to new firmware 10.10 necessary.

As already noted by some of you guys, the laser as it slows or accelerates adjusts power to compensate.
In Material Settings - each setting has a drop-down at the end of the line. I've looked in here but not touched. See attached picture

The Correction value needs to be tweaked. Apparently, earlier versions of the firmware recognised values in here for cutting but not engraving.

It represents a minimum value that the laser power drops to and is a percentage of the laser power.

Recommended settings around 10%-25% - need to be played around with for EACH MATERIAL (which is a bit of a pain to have to go through everything)
As I found that cutting was also affected when I was cutting stencils over the weekend, I guess I may have to tweak all those too!

The idea is to set power & speed normally. Then adjust this correction value to bring the faded edges in to the same engraving depth as the centre (if that makes sense)

I have briefly tried it and at 30% the edges are definitely more deeply engraved that the middle now.. so it works!

Many thanks to all who gave advice. :)

Kind Regards
Tony





280279

[Dan Hintz]

Thanks for keeping us updated, Tony...

[matthew knott]

Great news Tony, always nice to have an easy fix !! We will be at MACH, that is one 'mahosive' show unlike the tiny Trophex, some of the kit there makes the mind boggle, as do the prices. Also Southern Manufacturing is a quite a busy little show with lots going on if you like engineering shows, that's in Farnborough.
How did you find the show, did anything catch your eye?

[Tony saunders]

Yeah, I like Mach. Totally missed the upstairs last time ...spent all the time doing exactly that (drooling over large CNC :) )

I will seek you out Matt at this years show. I have a tormach cnc mill (which is a semi-serious hobby mill) - nothing like a Haas but it's good fun, if a little more risky than running the laser. I have a tray of broken end-mills but laser beams don't break ;)

I was there to look at sublimation and other print technologies. Also, i wanted to look at the GCC vinyl cutters but there wasn't much there. It's always good to go to the shows though to see the technologies and understand what's possible. I like to have some knowledge and answers if clients ask what is possible, and it's a fun day ;)

Was the show good for you?

cheers
T

[matthew knott]

Show was good, not many visitors but the most seemed to be quality so probably the best scenario, i like the full colour UV printing machines but at £40k i would want to be very sure i could find for it, I quite liked the little 3D cnc router for £1600 but it would just be a fun toy for me that would make a mess, and i have no time to be playing right now. Thought the sandwiches where really good, the foos at the NEC is normally expensive pig swill, and what was with the company selling expensive kitchen knives, what the hell where they doing there, seemed an odd place to punt out knifes at £60 each

[Tony saunders]

<snip> and what was with the company selling expensive kitchen knives, what the hell where they doing there, seemed an odd place to punt out knifes at £60 each

Yeah, that was odd!... flint n flame?? Didn't take much notice but it was a big stand. They were chopping n dicing veg' when we went by.

I hadn't really looked at printing much before. Do you mean the one (mimaki?) that was also printing foil as well as colour? I spoke to the guy for a while and it was impressive. He'd entered in the Most Creative category award I think.

I am always shocked by how cheap (figuratively speaking) that some of this kit it. Maybe i don't get out enough but I see things like the sublimation printing equipment with heat press / ricoh printer etc and am surprised at the quality for what seems a small investment. Printing isn't my world so maybe I am easily impressed, but you can see why companies who have for years farmed out £6-£10k to a local shop suddenly bring it in-house. The print n cut stuff appears to be flexible, high quality and relatively inexpensive.

Arthur C Clarke once famously said that 'any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic' ... Hoofing about these shows, a lot of the tech these days is really that - impressive to a point it appears almost magic.

...just wish i had more space and more money ;)

T

[Guy Hilliard]

My Speedy 400 80w has started doing the same and it is 7 months old.

Is there an issue with this model / setup?

[Tony saunders]

I dunno Guy - but if I was a betting man, I'd say there was something odd yes...

The question is has anyone with any other Trotec models had this issue???

My concern is that the solution feels like a work-around compensating for something. After all, mine ran fine for six months then suddenly had a problem that didn't coincide with any upgrade / install or hardware change. Things rarely alter their characteristics - usually if something goes wrong it's either because something has been changed, or something has failed!

T

[Guy Hilliard]

In talking to the service person my issue seems to be something different.

Or on reading the following posts, maybe not...

[Tony saunders]

Thursday night is our 'project night' but Sam and I have been playing around with this and we're convinced it's not a solution.

I have an engraving that takes 2min 20sec and isn't uniform so the laser works down the engraving and leaps around depending on where needs engraving. This means that it is not a uniform cycle each time - some bits that hang down or stick up are quick etc...

Anyway, to force a uniform cycle we've put a line at each end so it traverses the whole length to do the engraving (puts it up to about 9 mins!)

Underneath we've engraved a standard one.

The standard one definately exhibits faint variances depending on the length of engraving run. Even though we've done loads of tests with correctoin values to find the best (closest) value (which appears to be 21)

I don't know if it accepts fractional values, but I don't want to start playing with such tiny increments. Mainly because, IF this correction value is just compensating for some variance in the laser power / firing / timing etc - what's to say it won't change again? ... being dependent on fractional values means the slightest degradation will mean a poor engrave cycle.

I am going to be back on to Trotec first thing - I have some very critical engraving coming in on the first of Feb - I can't risk this screwing up even slightly!!

Tony

[TAMI WILSON]

Tony

I am wondering if this problem might be due to "the new and improved ceramic tube" we got on our machines. I am thinking it was quite new when I bought my machine and your machine is about the same age. Possibly it is not agreeing with the software/ firmware?? Just thinking out loud. In my case people will say why is it just happening now? Well not sure I have engraved anything wide before. possibly it was this way all along I just didn't notice. Early on I had issues doing annodised aluminum. They instructed me to put it in "high quality." that helped with that issue.

The reason I spent the EXTRA $$ on the TROTEC was because I didn't want to have to deal with these PROBLEMS! ARE YOU LISTENING TROTEC??????

[Tony saunders]

Tony

I am wondering if this problem might be due to "the new and improved ceramic tube" we got on our machines. I am thinking it was quite new when I bought my machine and your machine is about the same age. Possibly it is not agreeing with the software/ firmware?? Just thinking out loud. In my case people will say why is it just happening now? Well not sure I have engraved anything wide before. possibly it was this way all along I just didn't notice. Early on I had issues doing annodised aluminum. They instructed me to put it in "high quality." that helped with that issue.

The reason I spent the EXTRA $$ on the TROTEC was because I didn't want to have to deal with these PROBLEMS! ARE YOU LISTENING TROTEC??????

Tami, you must have read my mind :)

...and to perhaps support that theory further, here's the latest.

I spoke to Trotec UK support this morning and explained what was happening, and how the problem is exacerbated when the laser optimally engraves rather than sweeping uniformly left to right. (Like you) I was advised that the settings where the Correction value is entered, if you check the HIGH QUALITY box, it forces it to sweep the whole work area (which is useful). However, it's also forcing the laser to be inefficient! it takes almost four times longer to do the engraving like this... this is not a solution, it's a work-around and a temporary one at best.

Which is why my main feeling is that there is a deeper problem here and that this 'correction' is merely treating the symptoms not the problem. We then talked about temperature and it turns out that there is quite a narrow range of operating temps, and once outside those, the mean time before failure of the tube may be 'drastically reduced'. Sounds like it pitches off an exponential curve but I haven't seen the data. Room temp is good - drop to 12 degrees (C) and things start to be unhappy!
(mine is in an un-heated workshop area that was a double garage). The temp is around 11 degrees today and although I run heaters when I'm in there, it may mean I have to run them an hour or two BEFORE I start work in order to warm up the laser.

When I bought it, I specifically asked if this was likely to be a problem - "no, not at all. in fact we have one guy working out of his garden shed" ... so I didn't think twice about it. Also, workshop environments are often cold overnight, and heaters put on the when the workers are present.

Anyway - I sent a service file to them so it could be sent to Austria for analysis. I was due to call them next week.

In the interim, I ran some more tests. One setting I have is to make an outline mark on masking tape using Power of 25 and speed of 40. I ran this (with correction values in place) ...and - nothing!

I upped Power to 40 - nothing!

P60... P70 ... still nothing.

It was only at around 85% power that I started to get a mark on the tape. 85% power of an 80W laser would normally be maybe 1mm or so in MDF! - something was wrong here.

It cuts okay - but the engraving is definately having issues.

Another call to Trotec. Without hesitation they are ordering a new tube and will come out ASAP to replace.!!

To be fair to Trotec, they have been EXCEPTIONALLY good so far with their support. The only criticism is that the support guys only know what they know and the Austrians seem to be like some distant 'Oracles' who don't always pass down the reasons - just 'fixes'. That's not the support guys problem as such - and I have to say I've been impressed.

As part of our tech discussions, we both feel as though there is some threshold here that the laser isn't crossing - it's not firing until it crosses some point and then it works, but even so, the power is such I may as well have a 10W laser.

I hear what you say though Tami - I too spent a lot of money on Trotec, largely after reading reviews and user experiences on other places and of course I was a lurker here for a while reading the excellent posts by Scott, Dan, Mike, Keith et al... (thanks guys for sharing your vast wealth of knowledge BTW)
So it was either Epilog or Trotec - and I needed the larger bed of the Speedy 400... expensive, but it oozes quality.

I think we may be suffering from being 'early adopters' though - compared to the Speedy 300 which was bulletproof, I've had a few ongoing niggles with the Speedy 400 - and this is the latest.

I'll keep you updated going forward.

Regards
Tony

[Scott Shepherd]

Tony, you are using High Quality wrong. There's no issue with it that takes 4 times longer to engrave. See the other thread. You are sending the jobs over wrong which is why it takes longer. I'm away from the computer for 6 hours or more, but I'll explain it in depth when I get back, or if you want, you can log into my computer and I'll walk you through it.

[Kev Williams]

Depending on what you're engraving, HQ can easily take 4x as long-- this is assuming the Trotec does an "optimized" raster in LQ mode, where it only rasters color and not dead space, vs HQ rastering the entire bounding-box area the subject resides in. Best example I can think of off the top of my head, how about an 18" long x 1/4" tall rectangle that's on a 30° angle--- There's a logo I engrave regularly that has this rectangle. My old Optima-ULS and my new Triumph does "optimized" engraving. My LS900 does not, and it's always frustrated me. Pics below show the difference. Being forced to engrave the entire bounding-box area using Cermark eats up about 30 minutes. I created an island fill with .003 offsets just so I can vector this "bar". This way, and if the bar was horizontal, it takes around a minute or so to engrave. Big difference.

This is optimized--

http://www.engraver1.com/erase2/lqraster.jpg


This is how my LS900 does it, and I assume(?) the Trotec in HQ mode...

http://www.engraver1.com/erase2/hqraster.jpg

[Tony saunders]

Tony, you are using High Quality wrong. There's no issue with it that takes 4 times longer to engrave. See the other thread. You are sending the jobs over wrong which is why it takes longer. I'm away from the computer for 6 hours or more, but I'll explain it in depth when I get back, or if you want, you can log into my computer and I'll walk you through it.

Appreciate that Scott - I have replied on the other thread to your post so won't repeat here. I 'think' we're on the same page - maybe my terminology is wrong LOL - but if not, I'm always open to learn.

Cheers
T

[Tony saunders]

Excellent diagrams Kev … made the point graphically much better than I did.

[Mike Null]

Tony

I believe Trotec was on to this problem a few months back and created a firmware fix. I note that you currently have 10.10 so you should not have the problem any longer but by accident I was transferring some files to a flash drive and caught the attached. I have not had the issue so this apparently fixed it at the time JCX was installed on my Trotec.

One of the Trotec service failings (also shared by ULS and Epilog to the best of my knowledge) is that they do not have an automatic notification process to alert owners to firmware and driver updates.

281036

[Paul Phillips]

Mike, ULS doesn't have an automatic notification but in the control panel there is a button you can click to check for updates so you can see if one is available, it is then pretty easy to the download and install, I like that feature but hearing about all the great features on the Trotec JCX makes me all the more envious!
Paul

[Guy Hilliard]

Had a service call from Jon Colley of Trotec Canada today.

After installing the updated firmware the correction factor for engraving the material I was using (masking tape) was out of spec so Jon replaced the laser tube.
Now everything is like new again

Thanks Jon.

[Tony saunders]

Tony

I believe Trotec was on to this problem a few months back and created a firmware fix. I note that you currently have 10.10 so you should not have the problem any longer but by accident I was transferring some files to a flash drive and caught the attached. I have not had the issue so this apparently fixed it at the time JCX was installed on my Trotec.

One of the Trotec service failings (also shared by ULS and Epilog to the best of my knowledge) is that they do not have an automatic notification process to alert owners to firmware and driver updates.

281036

Thanks Mike for the confirmation. I'm presently waiting for a replacement tube to be installed.
I see the latest post from Guy just now... Sounds like we have a very similar issue.

cheers
T

[Tony saunders]

Had a service call from Jon Colley of Trotec Canada today.

After installing the updated firmware the correction factor for engraving the material I was using (masking tape) was out of spec so Jon replaced the laser tube.
Now everything is like new again

Thanks Jon.

Guy,

Couple of questions...

Since the tube replacement, do you have to still enter correction values for your material or has that gone away?

also, the room your laser is in, how warm is it? (Does it get cold at night? Do you have soem heating on all the time or just during the day?)

I have installed a temp sensor in my workshop area where the laser is. This used to be a double garage so isn't very warm. We are having a relatively mild UK winter here but the temp is dropping to about 8.5 degs C. I have a heating system that I put on when I'm working but it takes a while to warm up the place to about 16-18 degs (maybe an hour or more).

I'm curious as to a conversation I had with the techs about the life of the laser being significantly reduced if the operating temp window is less than expected. I need to find out more about this from Trotec engineer when they come to reinstall, but it seems that if it's less than about 12degs C it goes off a bit of a cliff?!?

Glad you're up and running again Guy. :)

cheers
T

[Guy Hilliard]

Tony;

I have only been running the laser for a few minutes since the tube swap but it does not require any correction factor to engrave correctly on the masking tape (just like when the machine was new and up until a few days ago).

The laser is in my living room. Yes, it's heated, 21C. The trouble and strife thinks it's not warm enough but it's a lot better than when I was living in Southampton, UK. If the wind was blowing out of the south you could fly a (very light) kite in the living room even with the windows and door closed. The electric fire did nothing but make the power bill go higher. The only redeeming features of the house was that it was located directly across the road from a pub and it had a public phone on the telephone pole at the end of the driveway (free directory assistance).

[Tony saunders]

Thanks for that Guy. I felt all along that something wasn't right and that suddenly having to 'correct' the laser spoke of some failure somewhere.

i have just been searching the creek, and sort of answered my temp question... Stable operating temps are better than this cold / warm cycle, and there's also the humidity to consider. Someone mentioned putting a blast gate on the exhaust too which I hadn't considered.

Looks like some insulation to do, plus a light bulb somewhere where I can keep laser warm with ambient heat overnight.

a pub AND a public phone eh?.... Sounds like you've been away from the UK for a while. Public phones fell victim to mobiles and have all but disappeared, and the number of pubs has dropped by about 2/3rds in the last 10 years... The credit crisis took a particularly heavy toll :(


..oh, but it's still windy n miserable so that's about the same :D

cheers
T

[David Somers]

Tony,

Don't know if this is available in the UK, but we have a product here called a Goldenrod. A tubular heater (not in the california surfer dude sense....it is a tube about a 1/2 diameter) that can be gotten in various low wattages...from about 25 watts and up. They get used in the boating world a lot to keep mildew down in small spaces by preventing condensation through a small to modest increase in ambient temp. I use them in various things and an engraver seems like a great spot for one. A google search on Goldenrod heater will get you there. Amazon has them I think. Boating places and camping/hunting places will have them. Might be worth checking them out. Probably a safer product than a light bulb.

Dave

[Guy Hilliard]

Just checked Google Street view. The public phone is gone but the pub is still there.:)

[Tony saunders]

Just checked Google Street view. The public phone is gone but the pub is still there.:)

Well, much as i miss the phone boxes, I'd rather see the pub ;)


Tony,

Don't know if this is available in the UK, but we have a product here called a Goldenrod. A tubular heater (not in the california surfer dude sense....it is a tube about a 1/2 diameter) that can be gotten in various low wattages...from about 25 watts and up. They get used in the boating world a lot to keep mildew down in small spaces by preventing condensation through a small to modest increase in ambient temp. I use them in various things and an engraver seems like a great spot for one. A google search on Goldenrod heater will get you there. Amazon has them I think. Boating places and camping/hunting places will have them. Might be worth checking them out. Probably a safer product than a light bulb.

Dave

Thanks Dave, We don't have goldenrod i don't think but they look the same oil-filled electric element pipe heaters i have in our water pump enclosures and chicken run (to keep water from freezing)

looks like one of them is going to get robbed :)

[Jiten Patel]

Another one bites the dust. My 80w 400 is having the exact same problems as of today. Trying to get hold of Trotec to get this sorted as I need my machine up and running.

Got lots of wiggle when running the same design...works on some, serious wiggle on others ruining a batch. Design cuts moving by themselves, but the pieces are in a jig, so they aren't moving, seems as if the software is having a seizure and not running the file properly. And now the faded edges on engraving! uh oh!!!

281153281154281155281156281157

[Tony saunders]

You kind of get the feeling that there's some design / implementation / technical issue here somewhere. That's three 400's in approximately the same timeframe. Coincidence?... possible but unlikely.

I've not heard this with any 300's??


I notified Trotec last friday afternoon, and they kicked the ball off to get a replacement for Austria. It was due to arrive today and an engineer to come and fit it, but it's not arrived yet.. and as it's TNT it won't arrive now.

I expect it will arrive tomorrow - which is about a week. I've got work backing up but thankfully the main client had a batch off me very recently so he's not chomping at the bit.


Jit - how warm is the place you keep your laser - has the temperature been low at night at all?


I currently have mine wrapped in blankets with a tubular heater in the base. I'm trying to get an insulated cover for it - it'll likely run me about £130 or so
(poss more as i want fire resistent material) - but I am determined to ensure that going forward I can keep the machine in a sensible temp / humidity band before startup in a morning.

If your firmware is at 10.08 (or upwards) Jit, you can 'get by' perhaps by ensuring the machine doesn't run optimised and you play with the correction values - about 21 worked for me for wood (well, MDF), but you'll need to see.

Having said that, once mine started going off a cliff, it was too erratic to risk engraving things that mattered.


Simon at Trotec UK Support has been very good so far. It's yet to be sorted (and I'd rather the spares were kept in the UK!) but they are bending backwards to get me up and running.


T

[Jiten Patel]

I agree with you Tony, too similar to be a coincidence!

My machines are kept in our unit, which gets cold over night. Heaters are on when people are working. I was told this was not an issue and the fact that we have had our Galvo in the same conditions for 3 years without issues means that this should be ok?! (correct me if I am wrong). These are industrial machines which are usually housed in industrial settings. I know of no industrial units or workshops who keep their heating on over night - can you imagine the bills!!!

I am trying to use High Quality at the moment - I know it takes an age, but need some jobs to be done by tomorrow and I don't have the luxury to wait at the moment. My firmware is 10.1.0.1. I didn't think correction applied to engraving - only vector cutting. We use it for every vector job as our work is detailed but was told it had no effect on engraving?

I agree UK tech support are brilliant, but disappointing that a machine that costs as much as this would fail after 6-8 months. Ceramic tube issues? Guess its the price you pay for being early adopters.

[Scott Shepherd]

I am trying to use High Quality at the moment - I know it takes an age, but need some jobs to be done by tomorrow and I don't have the luxury to wait at the moment. My firmware is 10.1.0.1. I didn't think correction applied to engraving - only vector cutting. We use it for every vector job as our work is detailed but was told it had no effect on engraving?


The firmware might me at 10.1, but it's the driver that's using the correction values for rastering now. Which version are you running? Just in case you didn't see this in the other thread, there's no reason for High Quality to take a long time compared to normal engraving. Check out the video I posted on here a few days ago explaining it :


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KR-0SMX__rI

[Tony saunders]

I agree with you Tony, too similar to be a coincidence!

My machines are kept in our unit, which gets cold over night. Heaters are on when people are working. I was told this was not an issue and the fact that we have had our Galvo in the same conditions for 3 years without issues means that this should be ok?! (correct me if I am wrong). These are industrial machines which are usually housed in industrial settings. I know of no industrial units or workshops who keep their heating on over night - can you imagine the bills!!!

I was told the same Jit. However, after speaking to the techs, they said that the lifetime of the laser can be (in some cases) quite dramatically reduced once you stray outside the temp window regularly. My shop was down to 8.5 degrees last night so I'm just going to go forward with a plan to 'enclose' the laser in a warm 'coat' and run a tube heater (which costs only pence a day) - I'll also put building heating on about an hour before starting work. Safe than sorry really! - the aim is to try to avoid the temperature 'shock' that can reduce it's life. I suppose too that once it gets very cold, the laser seals could potentially allow leaking.

I didn't have the machine back in 2010/2011 (obviously!) but we had sustained temps here of -14 degs and it didn't get above -6 for about 10 days. I recall thinking how much 'warmer' it was when it climbed to -4 !! :)


I am trying to use High Quality at the moment - I know it takes an age, but need some jobs to be done by tomorrow and I don't have the luxury to wait at the moment. My firmware is 10.1.0.1. I didn't think correction applied to engraving - only vector cutting. We use it for every vector job as our work is detailed but was told it had no effect on engraving?

That sounds like the version of JobControl? - rather than the firmware?!?. There's an option in JCX to 'upgrade' firmware and I used that to connect and pointed to the latest .TUZ firmware file I had because I was going to re-install the firmware (this was about 10 days ago). The firmware that was installed was newer (obviously installed by the tech when delivered). Then Trotec installed 10.10 to the machine as since about 10.08 the correction fix now applies to engraving not just cutting.


I agree UK tech support are brilliant, but disappointing that a machine that costs as much as this would fail after 6-8 months. Ceramic tube issues? Guess its the price you pay for being early adopters.

Yes - I think you're right!

Let us know how you're getting on Jit.
Cheers
T

[Scott Shepherd]

The Correction working on rastering only started with 10.2 on the software and it requires 10.08 on the firmware, according to the documentation I have. The firmware alone won't make that happen, you need 10.2 on JCX to make that happen.

[Tony saunders]

The Correction working on rastering only started with 10.2 on the software and it requires 10.08 on the firmware, according to the documentation I have. The firmware alone won't make that happen, you need 10.2 on JCX to make that happen.

Interesting Scott. My JCX is definitely 10.1.0.1 and firmware 10.10...
The correction does work for engraving (well, it did!)

281158281159

[Tony saunders]

Sometimes, things are so perfectly timed... with you mentioning 10.2 of JCX I was just about to search for it, or contact Trotec.

Just check my email for something and ...a newsletter has just arrived via email. !!!

281160

wow!... timely or what!
T

Interesting - some extra good news with the printer driver. Aside from the correction support for engraving, they have introduced greyscaled vectors (inc white) - so hopefully those red cut lines will not appear in JCX when setting the outline to the same colour as the fill in Corel...

For those in the UK, the link takes you (currently) to a German page. Here is the US one: http://www.troteclaser.com/en-US/About-Trotec/News/Pages/2014-01-jobcontrol-software-for-windows-8.aspx

Cheers
T

[Scott Shepherd]

Interesting Scott. My JCX is definitely 10.1.0.1 and firmware 10.10...
The correction does work for engraving (well, it did!)

281158281159

I'm only basing that on the "What's New" tab in the help. On 10.1, it's not showing that correction does anything, on 10.2, it's showing that as a new feature. I have no knowledge on whether it not it was working prior to 10.2, but that's what their help screen shows.

[Jiten Patel]

Working with UK tech now (Simon) Just installed 10.2.1. Using the correction works when running at a high power (70%+) but as soon as you bring down the power, the fading returns. Waiting for a call back to get it sorted.

Also does anyone use Illustrator as opposed to Corel? I am asking because a enhanced geometries does not work with Illustrator. The file comes out in a mess (cut part all over the place)....

[Tony saunders]

I'm only basing that on the "What's New" tab in the help. On 10.1, it's not showing that correction does anything, on 10.2, it's showing that as a new feature. I have no knowledge on whether it not it was working prior to 10.2, but that's what their help screen shows.

I've just chased Trotec on the version. They're to install 10.2 when the laser replacement arrives.
I suspect that the minor release increment is their 'next public release' and will encapsulate any maintenance / revisions that have taken place since 10.1.0.0 that are often only available as issues arise. We used a similar format for our releases: major.minor.build.revision - although there are variants on the same theme.

[Tony saunders]

Working with UK tech now (Simon) Just installed 10.2.1. Using the correction works when running at a high power (70%+) but as soon as you bring down the power, the fading returns. Waiting for a call back to get it sorted.

I ended up at about 85% before mine touched the surface Jit.

Also does anyone use Illustrator as opposed to Corel? I am asking because a enhanced geometries does not work with Illustrator. The file comes out in a mess (cut part all over the place)....

I only use it if sent files in .AI - sorry Jit. I have noticed though that .DXF files when imported are really a mass of lines and curves that are broken up and will not even order correctly. .. and as you can imagine, there are a lot of versions of DXF from an awful lot of packages. Did you receive the file as DXF in the first place?

[Jiten Patel]

Hi Tony,

No, its a file we created from scratch in Illustrator. Just got off the phone with Simon, and we figured out its when you select enhanced geometries and flip the artwork in the driver, it comes out as a mess....see the attached picture - on the left is what is should look like, and on the right is when enhanced geometries is selected!

New tube is on order, so will receive it hopefully next week.

Talking about temp, I was advised have the surrounding area at around 16+ degrees (C) 60.8 (F) for all you over the pond, when you switch the machine on and run it. The machine has to heat up so quickly, that going from 0 degrees to whatever the running temp is a big no no. So I will have to run our heating in the morning for an hour or so before running the machine.

Again, huge thumbs up to Trotec UK support, they are fantastic. It reminds me why I paid what I did for a Trotec.

281167

[Tony saunders]

Hi Tony,
Talking about temp, I was advised have the surrounding area at around 16+ degrees (C) 60.8 (F) for all you over the pond, when you switch the machine on and run it. The machine has to heat up so quickly, that going from 0 degrees to whatever the running temp is a big no no. So I will have to run our heating in the morning for an hour or so before running the machine.


Yes, that's along the lines of thje conversation I had. I've just had a quote for a fireproof, insulated, custom 'jacket' that wraps around and buckles, with a 'lid' that fixes with velcro. It's a bit steeper than I expected at £267.60 ex works but it's an option I will consider. Either that or i will build something with Celotex insulation (kingspan) & plywood. But that might be a little unwieldy and I have to then store the damn thing. At least with a wrap I can fold it and store easily.

Glad you got the illustrator problem sorted Jit


Again, huge thumbs up to Trotec UK support, they are fantastic. It reminds me why I paid what I did for a Trotec.

Absolutely!!! - couldn't agree more. They've been superb!

BTW - I have the tracking number for my laser tube - it's been stuck in Arnhem in the Netherlands for some strange reason after coming from Linz -> Vienna -> Salzburg -> Arnhem in about a day!

[Steve Morris]

They have just released 10.2, don't know if it helps. Its also Win 8 ready.

[Mike Null]

Just a reminder for those using CorelDraw. If you check enhanced geometries in JC you must also change the setting in Corel per the screen capture.

Be sure to save as default in your document settings.


281184

[Steve Morris]

hmmm. thought I posted this earlier but its not here, anyway, I have just had an email from trotec that JC 10.2 is released to include win 8 compatibility plus a few tweaks.
Might be worth a look.

[David Somers]

It is there Steve. Post number 68 in this thread?

Dave

[Tony saunders]

hmmm. thought I posted this earlier but its not here, anyway, I have just had an email from trotec that JC 10.2 is released to include win 8 compatibility plus a few tweaks.
Might be worth a look.

Hi Steve,

don't know how you have your settings but if each forum thread appears at the top as a long list of posts as a hierarchy, you may want to change display dettings to "Linear Mode"from 'Threaded'
at the top, under DISPLAY you can change it, or change it permanently in your profile settings.

i only say this because if the view settings are like that it's easy to miss a post... :)
cheers
T

[Dan Hintz]

I've just had a quote for a fireproof, insulated, custom 'jacket' that wraps around and buckles, with a 'lid' that fixes with velcro. It's a bit steeper than I expected at £267.60 ex works but it's an option I will consider. Either that or i will build something with Celotex insulation (kingspan) & plywood. But that might be a little unwieldy and I have to then store the damn thing. At least with a wrap I can fold it and store easily.

I'm not sure, but it sounds like you are intending to wrap your machine in an insulated blanket to keep it warm through the night? If so, that's unlikely to work as well as you hope without a heater inside. You would have to envelop the entire machine to prevent heat loss to the environment, and that sounds... troublesome. Given an overnight stay, the machine is likely to drop in temp to match the outside environment.

[Tony saunders]

I'm not sure, but it sounds like you are intending to wrap your machine in an insulated blanket to keep it warm through the night? If so, that's unlikely to work as well as you hope without a heater inside. You would have to envelop the entire machine to prevent heat loss to the environment, and that sounds... troublesome. Given an overnight stay, the machine is likely to drop in temp to match the outside environment.

Hi Dan,

No, I have a tube heater that will sit inside the base, or you're absolutely right it would be a bit pointless. :)
I currently have various drapes etc around it with the heater in it and it's holding about 11 degrees C (against an ambient background of 7.8 degs at the moment)

Even if I can only get it up to maybe 13 or 14 degrees, it will warm quicker when I put the heating on in the morning. I have ordered another tube heater to supplement it to see how much better it makes it.

cheers
T

[Tony saunders]

Logistics! - what a world … the Iradion laser replacement was sat in the Netherlands when I went to bed last night - it's arrived here this morning at 8:30am!!
Hopefully being fitted monday and back in business..

[Tony saunders]

Quick update because I'm trying to catch up on workload...

Laser tube installed yesterday by Chris from the UK Support team. Top guy - really knows his stuff. Gone through many things with him so dying to try some techniques / settings out...

Laser installed okay and problem now solved. Glad I didn't have to do the mirror alignment though - I'd still be doing it.

It's hopefully all good ... onwards and upwards ... thanks to all on here who gave advice :)

Hope you're up and running soon Jit??

Cheers
Tony

[Mike Null]

Tony

Glad to hear you're up and running. I'm surprised that the tube was the answer.

[matthew knott]

Thats quite a few tubes that are getting replaced on new machines, wouldnt want those kind of bills out of warranty. Maybe im reading the thread wrong but it looks like 3 people needing new tubes, as a sample size how many active members on here have new machines? Cant be that many! Sounds like the support is Ace so hopefully just a weird glitch and normal service will be resumed.

[Tony saunders]

Yes, several folk on here have had replacement lasers for their 400's. Iradion ceramic 156F 80W units that must cost somewhere around the £5k mark.

... And, yes, the support has been exceptional. Like others, I spent a lot of money on this laser and juggled for ages as to whether to go for GCC, Epilog, Trotec or cheap import. I have nothing against Epilog but I wanted a larger model. if the Epilog Fusion had been available, it may have been a harder choice.

I know nothing much about GCC so really can't comment.

I lurked on here and read much on the web, as well as visiting shows and decided I valued good commercial support if I was going to go down the laser route...

I have had several niggles and definately feel that this is down to it being a new machine (well, new model!)
Whether it's been rushed out or not I don't know, but it feels that way. It's not been a patch on the near bulletproof speedy 300.

I've had issues today with the pause function causing a crash needing a restart. Trotec were super quick though and remotely diagnosed it. A change has been made to a parameter that we (thought) had fixed it. But it hasn't so I will be pursuing it tomorrow. This is relatively minor, but if you need to pause a job to open the lid, it's not possible to do that anymore. Looks like it was (possibly) introduced with the latest firmware/JCX install.

I don't regret buying from Trotec, but I am starting to lose confidence in this particular model...

if it wasn't for their constantly good support here in the UK, I would be seriously thinking about giving the whole lot back. I can't base a business on unreliable equipment!

The exhaust issues haven't gone away, but they are better than they were, although I am having to run two exhausts and a separate vacuum unit rather than the initially supplied single exhaust with a takeoff for the vacuum table. ... So, three separate motors = more power used = more running costs.

The worst issue with the exhaust is the lenses constantly getting dirty. I could run all day on the 300 and not need to clean them... Now, I have to clean them maybe half a dozen times in the day running the exact same jobs...

Part of the problem IMO is that it would be better if the material settings had AIR ASSIST set ON as default... Rather than off. It's VERY easy to forget to set this if you are setting up multiple vector settings for a material. i am going to feed this back as a request. Ideally, you would have a setting in options to allow people to choose whether it is ON by default, or OFF to allow flexibility for those that perhaps don't run air for whatever reason (no nozzle).

Would I recommend Trotec to others based on my experience... Yes, certainly here in the UK I would recommend them based on the excellent support guys and some of the other guys... Bryan Jater is a top guy and very knowledgeable.

Would I recommend the Speedy 400 to others???? ...

I'd like to be able to... Watch this space (!)

cheers
Tony

[Dan Hintz]

Yes, several folk on here have had replacement lasers for their 400's. Iradion ceramic 156F 80W units that must cost somewhere around the £5k mark.

That's the one I have on my 300... I will be watching it like a hawk!

[Tony saunders]

That's the one I have on my 300... I will be watching it like a hawk!

You know, so far, I haven't heard of any other Trotec models having a problem with this laser module.

IF the same module has been used for some time on other models, then you could reasonable conclude that the module itself is okay. The issue is therefore more likely to be caused by the 400's ancilliary control or power hardware causing issues with the laser module... In other words, it's the gubbins in the 400 that is screwing the module.

If this IS the case, then I would expect that my laser module may cause problems again in the future.

If on the other hand someone with a different model has had issues like this with the same laser module, then maybe there's a problem with the laser module itself.

T

[Kev Williams]

I pretty much figured all along the tubes were going bad. If those tubes made a profit before they went south, then so too will the replacements. Something about the cost of doing business... ;)

[matthew knott]

I pretty much figured all along the tubes were going bad. If those tubes made a profit before they went south, then so too will the replacements. Something about the cost of doing business... ;)
Its not so much if they made a profit or not, its how long they made a profit for, $200 Chinese tubes last about as long, and dont cost $$$$ to replace, combine that with how many from a small sample have failed and its a potential worry. or a storm in a teacup hopefully the later.
You cant but this sort of thing down to the cost of doing business.

[Jiten Patel]

Glad you up and running Tony. Our tube arrived on Monday. Engineer is booked for tomorrow so hopefully everything will get sorted.

What extraction are you using and what are you cutting? We have an atmos and our keeps the lens pretty clean - not cleaning required daily (I still do just in-case) but they look spotless.

I do have an issue with air-assist - I personally do not think it is powerful enough because when cutting Mirror Acrylic, I get serious re-melt which is a B%&* to wean. As most of you know, the nature of our work is extremely detailed, so weaning something can take longer than the cutting which is ridiculous. Anyone have any thoughts on this? I use the following settings on the 400 - 100%power, 0.8 speed, 5000hz

[Tony saunders]

Hey Jit,

excellent... You'll soon be up and running (then hard at it playing catch up :) )

long story with the exhaust. I have out-to-air extraction and it has been plagued with problems not removing the smoke. It's way better now than it was, but not like the 300 was.

the air assist adjustment on the pump is not well thought out on the 400. You have to take off the lower panel on the rear (about 10 screws or so) to be able to adjust. I suggest talking to the engineer when he comes to fit the tube and let him go through it with you.

Jit, the acrylic sounds like it's quite thick is it? Although I usually have a high frequency (PPI) for acrylic to get a nicer flame finish, maybe you want to bring that down a bit and try that. Alternatively, try lower power and possibly lower speed. (Ideally you would want to be moving faster through the material but you're already at 100% power so you probably can't do that)

having said all that, I haven't cut mirrored acrylic. Are you cutting from the mirrored side or the reverse?


CheerS
T

[TAMI WILSON]

Hmm, My 300 was doing the same as Tony's 400 but a new job control seems to be working for me................Wondering if it is just a bandaid and I am going to have more problems in the future. Just thinking out loud. Fingers and toes crossed.

tami

[Tony saunders]

Hmm, My 300 was doing the same as Tony's 400 but a new job control seems to be working for me................Wondering if it is just a bandaid and I am going to have more problems in the future. Just thinking out loud. Fingers and toes crossed.

tami

Glad you're up and running again Tami :)
You may get issues, you may not. Sometimes different problems present themselves a similar way… keep your eye on it and perhaps consider taking out the Trocare maintenance / ext warranty package eventually as the standard warranty comes to an end. Warranty is two years I believe (not including optics - which is only 3 months here)

[Glen Monaghan]

I'm guessing your mirror is extruded acrylic, which definitely has a problem with small pieces re-welding themselves back to the main piece. I had huge problems with that recently until I ran out of the white acrylic I had been trying to use and had to buy more. I thought what I'd been using was cast, but the new stuff looks different, more of a dull (not matte but definitely not as glossy as the previous stuff) finish, and it cuts radically differently! The cuts don't stick back together at all, tiny cutouts just drop out with nothing more than a swipe of a finger (about 3/4 of them just fall out on their own when picking up the cut designs). Absolutely no broken parts caused by trying to force out stuck bits. Life's suddenly much better :^)

Don't know whether you can get cast acrylic mirror, but I suggest you check on that. If not, I found the most success came from reordering the cuts to space them apart in space and time, and made sure that no cutout was done all in one run. A time/space optimized cutting order does all the cuts in one area, causing a buildup of heat that contributed to cut parts welding themselves back to the main piece when they shifted at the end of their cutout. Jumping around the part and breaking every cutout into at least two cuts gave time for each cut to cool down so there was less chance that a fully cut piece would weld back into place when the cut finished and the piece shifted/fell.

The other thing I sometimes did was to pause between each design, pull out the just-finished part, and immediately start removing the cutouts while the next design was cut. Waiting until all the designs were cut allowed the first ones to cool completely and stuck bits became harder to remove than when they processed right after cutting. But switching to a cast acrylic was the major thing.

[Paul Phillips]

Hi Jit, I'm not sure how difficult it would be to do on the Trotec but maybe you could bypass the built in air and hook it up to your shop air if you have a shop compressor, that way you can regulate the pressure to a higher volume if you need it, I find that helps me when cutting various thicknesses of Acrylic. Only draw back is a little more cost to hook up proper air filtration so you don't get moisture. Hope this helps.
Paul

[Dan Hintz]

it cuts radically differently! The cuts don't stick back together at all, tiny cutouts just drop out with nothing more than a swipe of a finger (about 3/4 of them just fall out on their own when picking up the cut designs).
Just as a random check... is the new stuff the same thickness as the old? I ask because a slightly thinner "new" might cut like magic compared to a thicker "old" when done with the same settings.

[Glen Monaghan]

Well, they feel the same thickness to my mark 1 fingers and both are supposed to be 3mm. While the new stuff measures more like .117" than the old stuff's .118", that's not enough to explain the differences. I'm going to try the burn test on a scrap of the old stuff because I think it may have been some sort of extruded rather than the cast it was supposed to be.

[Dan Hintz]

I'm going to try the burn test on a scrap of the old stuff because I think it may have been some sort of extruded rather than the cast it was supposed to be.

That's the likely answer, I just wanted to cover all bases (and measuring is a simple, non-destructive test).

[Jiten Patel]

Hi All,

Back up and running. Nice shiny new tube. Old one war putting out 67 watts after 7 months of moderate use....not good. New tube is putting out 86.

Thanks to all for the replies regarding mirror acrylic. I am cutting it from the back and it is only 3mm. No matter what settings I try, I can never get the pieces to fall out. Maybe this is to do with the intricate patterns. I occasionally get this with cast too, but they fall out much easier (still need weaning which is not ideal). The ideal situation is I lift the piece off the bed and ta-da, everything has already fallen out.

Paul, thank you for your suggestion, unfortunately, we do not have another compressor as the lasers are the only heavy machinery we run.

[David Somers]

I am curious. Is there a way to visually tell the difference between cast and extruded acrylic?

Dave

[Paul Phillips]

David, this might answer your questions, short answer is no, not visually but there are tests you can do.
http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?68176-Cast-vs-Extruded-acrylic

Jit, it might be something to look into in the future, you should be able to put together a small compressor system for a few hundred dollars and it will allow you some more flexibility in your cutting.

[Glen Monaghan]

Jit, something I did to help with removing small, intricate shapes being cut from a finished piece is to add additional cross cuts so that the cutouts are smaller and generally convex. For example, if you were cutting out an hour-glass shape from your finished piece, the hour glass would tend to get hung up in the opening and be relatively difficult to clear out. So, add a small cross cut at each end of the hour-glass shape's middle stem, creating a separate "bulb" shape on each end and the short, straight, center piece. The little extra time required for the additional cuts is much less than would it would take to worry out the entire hour glass shape; those three smaller pieces will come out a lot easier and faster than the entire hour glass shape. Also, when a cutout does try to weld itself back to the finished piece, those extra cuts make it easier to pop the cutout bits free without so much risk of breaking the finished design.

[Mike Null]

Dave

There are a couple of ways. As somebody else mentioned cast acrylic engraves to a frosty white while the extruded engraving is almost clear just showing the laser mark. Extruded is unsuitable for engraving in my opinion.

All the cast acrylic I've purchased has a paper protective cover front and back while extruded has always had a plastic covering.

[Donna Hawk]

We usually used 10 for our correction value on our Trotec Speedy 500 when cutting. We were never able to get a suitable answer for significant 'overshoot' on raster engravings - slowing it down helped, but there was always an overshoot that made the finished engraving look 'fuzzy'. I'm curious - do you notice 'faceting' on curves when you use Job Control? it was great for a lot of applications, but curves were always a series of straight lines (however small) rather than a true curve. Anything that had to have a good curve got cut in iCut.



Hi Guys,

I've spent about a half-hour session with Trotec's excellent UK support and the problem is now 'fixed' - well, there is a solution (!)
They don't know why it has started but have had this issue reported by a few others.

Relatively quick fix:
Upgrade to new firmware 10.10 necessary.

As already noted by some of you guys, the laser as it slows or accelerates adjusts power to compensate.
In Material Settings - each setting has a drop-down at the end of the line. I've looked in here but not touched. See attached picture

The Correction value needs to be tweaked. Apparently, earlier versions of the firmware recognised values in here for cutting but not engraving.

It represents a minimum value that the laser power drops to and is a percentage of the laser power.

Recommended settings around 10%-25% - need to be played around with for EACH MATERIAL (which is a bit of a pain to have to go through everything)
As I found that cutting was also affected when I was cutting stencils over the weekend, I guess I may have to tweak all those too!

The idea is to set power & speed normally. Then adjust this correction value to bring the faded edges in to the same engraving depth as the centre (if that makes sense)

I have briefly tried it and at 30% the edges are definitely more deeply engraved that the middle now.. so it works!

Many thanks to all who gave advice. :)

Kind Regards
Tony





280279

[Michael Reilly]

Yes, I knew it was correction, but if that version of the software wasn't going to listen to the setting, it wouldn't have mattered.

Correction is essentially a power minimum. When the head slows down to prepare to change direction, it has to taper off the power to maintain the same depth. But if it tapers in a linear fashion, some materials (anodized for instance) require a minimum amount of power before they mark at all, so they will experience problems. This setting is basically a threshold. What I never could really figure out is whether the value is an absolute minimum (20=20% power) or whether it was a percentage it can vary (20 = 0.20x100% power = 80% power minimum). I mostly just left it at 20.

What Donna is mentioning is something else that was a much bigger problem for us, but it doesn't sound like what you're seeing.

Michael

[Kev Williams]

I am curious. Is there a way to visually tell the difference between cast and extruded acrylic?

Dave Maybe not so much visually, but- Extruded acrylic is MUCH softer than cast. If you smack a piece of cast with a screwdriver handle, it will have a hard, 'solid', resonant sound. Smack a piece of extruded and it goes "thud".

The other way to test is, you can indent extruded acrylic with a screwdriver tip (for example), cast acrylic will chip or crack, but you can't put a dent in it (unless it's very warm or hot)...

>disclaimer< -- Lexan can act like either, it's harder than extruded but it can be dented. Best giveaway to lexan is it has a blue tint. (usually)

[David Somers]

Thanks Paul, Mike and Kev! I will tuck that info away for later use.

Dave