Car batteries and infrequent driving

[Bruce Page]

Since retiring I only use my car 2-3 times a week, usually for trips under 15 miles. I bought a name brand 5 year battery on 11/15/2011. In just a little over a year, on 12/27/2012, the battery died and was replaced under warranty. I had to pay an installation charge of $68. Today, again in just a little over a year, the replacement battery has died. I assume that this one will also be replaced under warranty, and will include another $70 dealer removal/replacement charge. (The battery is located near the firewall in a tight quarters compartment)

Can anyone recommend a car battery that can survive my infrequent driving style?

Ps, the car’s charging system has been checked out by the dealer.

[Ryan Mooney]

You might look at hooking up a trickle charger to the battery when its not in use.

There might be some modern batteries that don't have a problem with sitting but all of the old ones would eventually drain out and had sulfation (?correctword?) problems where they wouldn't take a charge anymore. Part of the problem is that your car probably has a bunch of vampiric drain that is shortening the charge lifespan of the battery even more than just sitting on the shelf and once they get drained below a certain state most types don't deal well.

[Jerome Stanek]

I would check why the battery is dying and why they charge to replace it For that much I would go to walmart or autozone and buy a battery that they install for free. I have a truck that I only drive about once every other week and the battery lasted 5 years. My ford tractor takes the same battery as my f350 v10 and I only start it once a week in the summer and it is going on 7 years.

[Erik Loza]

You might look at hooking up a trickle charger to the battery when its not in use...

This ^^^

I use one on the "other" car we drive infrequently and it has saved the battery, I am sure.

Best of luck.

Erik Loza
Minimax USA

[Mike Wilkins]

For infrequent use such as you describe, a trickle charger will be a good investment. I have one hooked to my Ducati since it is too cold to ride. Auto parts stores or a motorcycle dealer will have one.

[Bill ThompsonNM]

Some of the newer cars do have a constant draw when not being used due to the electronics. That trickle really kills the batteries, either a trickle charger or a battery cut out switch would probably solve that problem. My older camper has a slight draw after adding a new stereo system so I awarded a separate all power off to the stereo

[Matt Meiser]

We are using 3 Battery Tender Jr's on our equipment/toys and after a year I'm really happy. We used to have some no-start issues in the past due to rundown batteries and I haven't had one since. They come with a fused harness you can wire onto the battery "permanently." I have that sticking out the the grill/hood/seat/whatever on all mine so I can just plug right in. Only trick is remembering to unplug.

But, until this year when my daughter started going to a different school where I need to pick her up at the bus stop every day I was only driving my truck a few times a week, usually more than 15 miles and its still got the original Motorcraft (probably Johnson Controls) battery from when the truck was built late 2008/early 2009. Those short trips aren't doing the rest of your car much good either. Not warming up enough to get rid of moisture is murder on exhaust systems. Find a new favorite restaurant for you and your wife on the other side of town or the next town over.

[Garrett Ellis]

Do you have to let the dealer replace the battery under the terms of the warranty, or can you do it yourself? For $70, I would hardly consider that a warranty replacement.

[George Bokros]

Your problem is puzzling to me. I have two "toys" that do not get driven or started from November until usually mid April or later. I put a battery charge on on them usually twice some times only once over the winter. I replaced the battery in one of them last year. When I went to Autozone to buy a new battery they told me the one I was replacing was ten years old. I am not sure how old the other one is but I would guess it is at least seven years old, it two is an AZ battery. I am retired and I do not drive my truck regularly, we use the other vehicle because it gets better gas mileage and I have had no issues with that either and it sits outside along with the other car we drive. Got to keep the "toys" in the garage.

George

[Harry Hagan]

Start with a good brand battery—I’ve had good luck with Interstate.

I also use a Deltran Battery Tender: http://www.amazon.com/gp/feature.html?ie=UTF8&docId=1000657791
and have had great luck with them on my Harleys.

I use these timers to turn them on for an hour three times a week: http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B004TGO6RY/ref=oh_details_o06_s00_i00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

[Rick Moyer]

As others said, put a battery tender on it, either THE Battery Tender Matt mentioned (for cars) or another make, but that should help. I put a yellow-highlighted note on the steering wheel of our one car that we don't drive much in the winter to remind me to unplug it before I take off.
Having said that, your battery shouldn't be draining down driving it three times a week. Either you're getting crap batteries or there is something wrong. I'd be finding a new place to check out the car and the batteries. I use a local guy who specializes only in batteries. He also sells only Deka batteries, but I don't know if you can get them in NM. They are made here in PA.

[Rick Potter]

I have 8 cars, use battery tenders for some, and my F250 gets driven seldom, and eats batteries.

To answer part of your question, if you belong to AAA, they have a service that comes to your location, checks the battery and charging system, and if needed....installs a new battery. I was amazed when it cost almost exactly the same as buying a battery at Wall Mart, and putting it in yourself. I forget what the guarantee is, I think it is 5 years, but I do know that for three years it is guaranteed with no pro-rating........free replacement battery, including installation.

I now have them in several vehicles.

Rick Potter

[Lee Schierer]

Using a car 2-3 times per week should be more than sufficient to keep a battery charged without a trickle charger even with modern electronics in a car. Since I retired, at least one of our vehicles gets to sit around and only gets used once or twice a week and sometimes one sits for a week or more when we travel with the other one. I've been retired for over 2 years and still have the same batteries in all my vehicles. Even my boat, which has a 4 cylinder automotive engine has the same battery and it is over 4 years old and I can assure you it doesn't get used more than one or two times per week in the summer and not at all in the winter. You have another problem with your vehicle that is killing batteries. If the car is under warranty have the dealer check the charging system for proper performance. It sounds like your alternator is not putting out the full voltage or too much.

I would argue with the dealer about the $70 change out charge since this has happened once before just a year ago.

If your car has an Auto feature for the headlights to turn on/off, check your owners manual to turn that feature off so you have to use the switch. Also check and insure all the interior lights are in fact going off after the doors are closed.

[Val Kosmider]

I would check why the battery is dying and why they charge to replace it For that much I would go to walmart or autozone and buy a battery that they install for free. I have a truck that I only drive about once every other week and the battery lasted 5 years. My ford tractor takes the same battery as my f350 v10 and I only start it once a week in the summer and it is going on 7 years.

This^^^^

There is no reason a 'modern' vehicle should kill a battery in a few days. I run my car on a similar schedule to yours, OP, and never have any sort of problem. If I left it sitting for a month, I would expect it to fire right off. There is a problem in your system which is drawing voltage--likely a ground or some other arcing problem which should be measured with a sensitive meter by someone who knows auto electric systems.

The/a dealer sold you the battery, and installed it? Should be NO charge to replace it. A good battery only runs $100- $125(the 'best' are $200 or so)....$70 to replace a $125 item is a little silly, IMHO. Get your vehicle checked out. Something is not right, and no disrespect intended, but who wants to fart around with a trickle charger on a car which should easily sit idle for a month or more and still fire right up? What happens when you go the airport for a one week trip?

[Matt Meiser]

My mom just had a problem like that. A couple almost broken wires leading to the door kept killing her battery an a couple other weird things.

[Bruce Page]

The car is a ‘06 Infinity FX35 that I’m sure it has a few juice vampires including my iPod that sucks the teat 24/7. The original battery went a full 5 years before it died. I had the Infinity dealer and the Firestone dealer where I bought the Interstate Batteries MT35 check the charging system and both said it was good.
I was hopping someone had found a “Retiree” battery :) I’m going to Firestone tomorrow and have them install another replacement and look into a battery tender. Amazon has the Battery Tender Jr. package that includes the charger, harness, and extension cable for $40. The trick will be to remember to unplug..

Thanks

[Greg R Bradley]

OK, now we have the rest of the info: the car and the battery. Also the people that are charging to replace a battery that is under warranty.

First, that car and that battery should be no issue if driven ONCE a week for 15 miles. MAYBE be an issue if driven once a month for 15 miles.

I've bought hundreds of Megatron batteries, including 3 today plus one of their gel batteries that is better for cars that are driven infrequently - by infrequently I mean several times a year. A battery tender is not needed for a car that is driven as much as yours. I do have 4 vehicles on tenders like a 2004 motorcycle that has 2100 miles on it.

Second, Firestone is ripping you off. If you bought a battery and they installed it, the battery is warrantied and so is the labor. The standard around here is 12 months and 12,000 miles unless specified otherwise. Even later during the prorata period it should be discounted labor. A legitimate shop should not be making a profit on a warranty claim but should be sharing some of your loss.

I think you might find that if you went over to the Interstate distributor that likely supplied the Firestone store that they would warranty the battery and do the labor for free. I know my distributor would.

[Jason Roehl]

The trick for either a block heater or a battery tender is to put the extension cord somewhere that you can't help but see it when you get in the vehicle. Drape it over the side mirror, or crack the driver's window (if garaged) and tuck the cord in there, or tuck it in the door handle if it's an open handle type.

[Bill Huber]

I am with the group that say you do not need a battery tender.
I have an S-10 truck that gets driven maybe once a week at best and I do not have a problem with the battery.
I had a Ford E-150 van that set more then it was driven, like every 6 to 8 weeks between drives and the battery did fine. I will have to say that in the van had an Optima battery, yellow top. I had that battery for like 7 years when I sold the van.

The Optima are not cheap but they are really good batteries and there is no water to add, they are maintenance free.

[George Bokros]

They may be checking your charging system but there is some sort of short that is draining that battery, even a charging system in top shape will not prevent a short from draining the battery. Take the car to a reliable automobile electric shop and have them check for a short. Has the car been in accident recently??

George

[Ken Fitzgerald]

Bruce,

Until I retired 3 years ago, my primary mode of transportation was my company van. My F-350 which I replaced with a used Honda Pilot didn't get driven once a week. Now my Pilot gets driven maybe 2 or 3 times week. I am still on the original battery.

I think getting a good electrical shop to take a look at the vehicle might be a good idea.

[Bruce Page]

I'm not keen on taking it to a shop to try to chase down a short, that could get really expensive. I conversed with Interstate Batteries via email today and they will stand behind the battery. I just have to see if I can get Firestone to replace it without the $70 charge. If I were 35 I would replace it myself but at 63, it's not going to happen - it's a pretty good lean-in to place it into the compartment on the firewall. I still have a good back and want to keep it that way. ;)
Other than a door banger that took out the left side mirror, the car has never been in a accident.

[Keith Westfall]

Find a speciality shop that deals only in batteries. They should remove and install for you as part of the sale. Dealers "need" and will "take" everything that they can. You'll probably get a better battery for around the same price.

[Chris Damm]

I have a problem with them charging for replacement of a battery under warranty. That's a new one on me and I have never been charged to replace any battery. For what they're charging you could have almost bought a new battery that's probably better than the one they're installing! I have a lawn mower, boat and classic car that don't get used a lot so I bought Battery Tender Jrs for all 3 and have had no problems. The boat battery is 10 years old, the lawn mower's is 8, and my El Camino's is 7 and they all are in great shape.

[Curt Harms]

I agree that you're not driving so infrequently that a battery should go flat. I'd consider getting one of these as a diagnostic aid:

http://www.harborfreight.com/heavy-duty-battery-cutoff-switch-66789.html

Disconnect the battery anytime the vehicle is sitting for several hours. If the battery were really bad, shouldn't it still fail even being disconnected? I'd tend to go along with 'there's something drawing juice even when the car's off' line of thinking. I learned the hard way that an older GPS will drain a battery if left on for a couple days.



(http://www.harborfreight.com/heavy-duty-battery-cutoff-switch-66789.html)

[Jerome Stanek]

I would start to look at what is draining your battery.

[George Bokros]

I agree that you're not driving so infrequently that a battery should go flat. I'd consider getting one of these as a diagnostic aid:

http://www.harborfreight.com/heavy-duty-battery-cutoff-switch-66789.html

Disconnect the battery anytime the vehicle is sitting for several hours. If the battery were really bad, shouldn't it still fail even being disconnected? I'd tend to go along with 'there's something drawing juice even when the car's off' line of thinking. I learned the hard way that an older GPS will drain a battery if left on for a couple days.



(http://www.harborfreight.com/heavy-duty-battery-cutoff-switch-66789.html)

The problem with completely cutting off the battery in the newer cars is the computer will always be in a re-learn mode which takes about 15 - 30 minutes while you drive. Can be troublesome, and inconvenient.

You can do some trouble shooting yourself with a multimeter. Disconnect the negative battery cable and use the multimeter, connect (touch) the negative cable with one lead end the negative battery post with the other lead. You should see only a slight current draw, AMPS. If it is more than a few AMPS you have short some where. I do not know how many AMPS to expect but would guess only 4 - 6 AMPS computer and the clock.

A few years ago we had my mother-in-law living with us and we kept her car because she could not get into our Jeep Liberty, to high. Her car sometimes sat for two months in the Ohio winter without being started and it never failed to start.

Thought, do you have a security system in your car, that can drain a battery but would not expect so in a few days, maybe a few weeks.

George

[Kev Williams]

Since we work from home, our vehicles probably get driven less than the OP's does. My 2 'main' vehicles are a 2004 Dodge Stratus that I bought for my mom in 2006. It's our 'gopher' vehicle, picks up supplies maybe twice a week. Aside from groceries about once every 3 weeks and dinner out once a month, it sits. Second is my 2002 F-250 Ford truck I bought brand new in April of '02. It just barely hit 50k miles about a month ago. It sits sometimes for weeks during the winter, in the summer it's our 'go boating' truck.

The Dodge still has the original battery in it. It's getting a bit weak-ish in 10° weather so it's not long for this world. The 11+ year old original battery in the truck was completely fine until last July one day when I launched the boat. When I turned the key to leave the launch ramp it went 'click' and that was that. No other warning.

For what it's worth, we have a houseboat that we've owned for 8 years, and the starting batteries (2 engine, 1 generator) all lasted over 7 years, and that's with them sitting in the bilge for 5 winter months. I get 5+ out of most deep-cycle batteries...

Also For what it's worth, I never use battery tenders.

My only battery problem is with my '84 Honda Goldwing. I have never gotten more than 18 months use out of the batteries I put in that thing, regardless of how I take care of them. Last casualty was an expensive lithium-iron(?) battery that was supposed to last 3 years. Got 1...

[Matt Meiser]

The 11+ year old original battery in the truck was completely fine until last July one day when I launched the boat. When I turned the key to leave the launch ramp it went 'click' and that was that. No other warning.

Someone told me that's the usual failure mode with modern batteries. Happened to both my mom's and my wife's cars at just over 5 years. I'm thinking of just replacing the one in my truck proactively since I'm right at 5 years.

[Val Kosmider]

Other than a door banger that took out the left side mirror, the car has never been in a accident.

First battery lasted five years? Door banger takes out (electric adjustment motor/defogger/internal door repair affecting electric window motor?) mirror, then you start to have dying batteries? I am just connecting the dots, and could be way off.

Could be a place to start tracking down the short. Isn't it worth it to spend a hundred bucks having the dealer or a high quality electric shop hook it up to trace the short, to measure the drain, rather than have to deal with chargers/tenders/inability to drive the car anywhere for fear of a dead battery? Maybe its just me.

[John Lanciani]

... AMPS. If it is more than a few AMPS you have short some where. I do not know how many AMPS to expect but would guess only 4 - 6 AMPS computer and the clock...

George

4-6 amps is going to kill the battery in less than a day. An optimistic guess on the reserve capacity of a car battery would be 80 amp-hours. (deep cycle batteries for an RV or trolling motor are +/- 100AH) I would expect to see less than 100 milliamps doing the test that George suggests. I also agree with George, disconnecting the battery on a modern car is not a great idea due to the computer having to re-learn all of the operating perameters every time you re-connect it.

[George Bokros]

4-6 amps is going to kill the battery in less than a day. An optimistic guess on the reserve capacity of a car battery would be 80 amp-hours. (deep cycle batteries for an RV or trolling motor are +/- 100AH) I would expect to see less than 100 milliamps doing the test that George suggests. I also agree with George, disconnecting the battery on a modern car is not a great idea due to the computer having to re-learn all of the operating perameters every time you re-connect it.

Thanks for correcting me John. I have no idea what the computer might draw but you are correct the draw should be in milliamps. Now thinking about it 4-6 is a healthy draw.

George.

[Jessica Pierce-LaRose]

Just an aside - I had some battery problems in my car - turned out at some point (probably before I bought the car from what turned out to be a bit shady used car dealer, but who knows) someone had put the wrong battery in the car. Every time I had the battery checked after having problems, it checked out okay, and replacements wouldn't last as long as I would like. Finally dug up the Ford manual for the vehicle on their website, and realized I had an incorrect, smaller, battery in the car than required. When I had it replaced in the past, I had just taken the old battery down the shop and gotten the same. Getting the proper battery for the vehicle, I haven't had any problems since.

Not saying this is your problem at all, but might be worth checking out - one screw up in replacement could easily lead to a long line of improper replacements if someones not paying as much attention as they should.

[Bill Huber]

I guess I still have a question, is the battery going dead and the car has to be jump started or is the battery just going bad and will not take a charge?

[Curt Harms]

The problem with completely cutting off the battery in the newer cars is the computer will always be in a re-learn mode which takes about 15 - 30 minutes while you drive. Can be troublesome, and inconvenient.
<snip>

George

I guess that's the advantage of drive near-antiques:p. We have two Ford 4.0 V6s early 2000s vintage and no issues with drivability after disconnecting the battery. I guess they're pretty low tech by today's standards.

[Greg R Bradley]

I guess that's the advantage of drive near-antiques:p. We have two Ford 4.0 V6s early 2000s vintage and no issues with drivability after disconnecting the battery. I guess they're pretty low tech by today's standards.
It is very low tech by today's standards but is still probably new enough to have some issues. It just is not having enough issue that you are noticing it. They were going to those systems starting well before 2000 but started slowly and mostly in the higher tech systems.

It probably has enough of those systems in it that you could generate enough of a fault to turn on the check engine light if you did silly things with the throttle during the first few minutes of running. Many modern cars are still recalibrating functions for around an hour after the battery is disconnected and will flunk a smog test during that time.

[Bruce Page]

Firestone replaced the battery at no charge.

Bill, the previous 2 batteries just slowly lost their oomph when the temps started dropping into the teens. I would put the charger on it overnight and it would fire right up. I don't know what is causing the problem. I will have the dealer look into it at the next service.

Thanks for the advise.

[Jim Koepke]

After sitting for months, my truck is sometimes a touch cranky, but it will start on the second try without battery problems. I moved it a few days ago and first had to wash off all the pine cones and needles so I could see out the window.

This kind of problem is where an amp meter comes in handy. My bet is you will get a good spark when you connect and disconnect the battery cable. The amount of spark can be an indicator of the amount of current draw. In the old days I would remove fuses one at a time to identify the circuit where the problem was located. Now days a lot of items have inline fuses with which to contend. An alternator can produce a charging voltage yet still have a diode that bleeds current to ground when the system is off.

I used to use a simple automobile light in a socket with test leads as a poor man's meter. Mostly for setting my distributor points. (that tells my age, eh?)
If this is placed between the battery and the cable a bright light tells you there is a heavy draw on the battery. The higher the draw, the brighter the light. If you are interested in more info on this PM me and I will post a reply here.

Some culprits could be the lights in the engine, trunk, glove compartment or other "courtesy" lights not turning off when they should. Many of these draw more than an amp.

The clock in the radio and other parasitic voltage eaters shouldn't be enough to drain a battery in a few days.

We sometimes do not move our going into town vehicle for as much as two weeks. (we love our hermit lifestyle) It fires right up. I let it run easy for a few minutes to let the oil get back to the places from where it drained.

Your mention of the side mirror also makes me wonder about how the repair was done. There could be a bit of sloppiness in the wiring that has a wire (or wires) making a current path to ground. This seems off to me since most cars I am familiar with do not have these controls enabled with the key off. But then again I am not a wiring engineer who designs this stuff.

Any place that changes a battery should be able to put a meter on and tell you what the "key off" load is on your battery. The worst would be if you have something intermittent. Also note the alternator may be attached directly to the positive cable. This is why it is best to check the load on the ground cable side of the electrical system.

jtk

[Kelly Craig]

Remotes, radios and clocks drain batteries, but shouldn't do it quickly.

If you removed the negative battery cable and connect a 12 volt light between it and the battery, it will come on, in most instances. This is because the radio and/or circuit provides a path for current flow. If you doubt that, after you connect the test light, turn your head lamps or parking lights on and the test light will come on. If it does, but goes off when the lights are off, you have no drain.

If the light is on when all switches are off, you can remove fuses to the radio and clock. If the light goes out, that was the only draw. Otherwise, remove fuses [then replace them] until the light goes off and that will tell you which circuit is the problem child. It could be, for example, a glove box light, or a trunk light.

Sixty-eight dollars is absurd for a battery swap. I could buy a NAPA battery for a little more than that. That aside, my Gruman step van was doing that and I just installed a battery kill switch inside. The switch kills everything and I go up to six months between starts. That would be a bit complicated, but you can get knob type shut-offs that go on the battery that are pretty easy to install. You have to open the hood for each run, but nothing will drain.

If your car is a late model, this may mess with some electronics, so check around to see if this is a viable option. If not, the trickle charger would be your best bet. You could secure it so the cord was outside the car for quick connections.

[Duane Meadows]

Or... if you are starting the engine, driving a block to the corner store, shutting it off. Coming out of the store and doing the same thing, driving home. Do this enough, you will eventually kill that battery as it doesn't have time to recharge. Just a thought. If you drive it for several miles should it should be ok. If you are doing this with lights, heater/AC, radio, etc on, may happen even more rapidly.

My wife killed one doing garage sales that way... granted it was old anyway, but that finished it!

[Bruce Page]

Or... if you are starting the engine, driving a block to the corner store, shutting it off. Coming out of the store and doing the same thing, driving home. Do this enough, you will eventually kill that battery as it doesn't have time to recharge. Just a thought. If you drive it for several miles should it should be ok. If you are doing this with lights, heater/AC, radio, etc on, may happen even more rapidly.

My wife killed one doing garage sales that way... granted it was old anyway, but that finished it!

I do that a few times a week. I also drive across town 8-10 miles about once a week, sometime more and sometimes less.
Since retiring I'm only driving my car 3 to 4 K a year.

[Jerome Stanek]

My new truck sits for long times I had to take it yesterday and id started up ok the last time I drove it was Dec 23 and we have had some below zero weather here.

[Chris Parks]

All modern cars have constant battery drain and if you disconnect stuff like radios you have to either forget about using them or re-program every time you use the car. Something stupid like a trunk light might be staying on if a switch fails in the on mode but it could be anything really. with the high output alternators these days frequent stop start driving is not such a problem but it sure destroys exhausts quickly.