Best all-around bandsaw under $3k

[Chris Morrow]

I've read through many of the bandsaw threads here but still would like opinions on the best all around bandsaw under $3k. I'm setting up a shop in half of a 2 car garage and would like to get a nice bandsaw to complement hand tools. I may get some kind of track saw, but no tablesaw, chop saw, jointer or planer so I was thinking about splurging on a really nice bandsaw. Projects would include acoustic guitars, wooden kayaks, and furniture. It would be used mostly for ripping followed by curves followed by resaw. Priorities are on cut quality, ease of blade changes, throat depth, table size.

Options I'm considering:


pm1500: kinda expensive but seems to be pretty nice for my needs. Does not require guard changes going from 1/8 to 1" blades
mm16: doesn't take smaller blades without changing guides and many have described these as more dedicated resaw machines
felder510/hammer n4400: does not seem to take blades smaller than 3/8" - according to the specs
laguna 14suv: could save some money but doesn't really excite me too much - would rather go with the Powermatic
Scrounging up more $$ and going for a laguna lt16 or 18. Probably overkill and awfully expensive.


Most threads here seem to focus on resaw capabilities, but that is my lowest priority so I'm curious to hear what people think?

[Michael Mahan]

I got a MiniMax MM20 ( I sent the MM16 back , bigger is better :p ) & a Rikon 10" (Craftsman clone @ Sears ) best of both worlds the 10" sits on the bench .
the MM16 is $2900 I got the Rikon/Craftsman for $200
IMO changing blades is Such a pain in rear that getting two Band Saw is just better

[Mike Heidrick]

MM16 will do everything. It is not a resaw only bandsaw by far. Even the MM20 can run down to 1/8 blades.

[richard poitras]

Chris were are you located as there is a 16'' laguna on Craigs List in Bay City Michigan for $950.00 that looked like a good deal ... Not mine.

Richard

http://images.craigslist.org/00909_lCR1Ady3TQ6_600x450.jpg

[Stephen Cherry]

I vote for used- as you get a lot more bang for the buck. I have a 24 inch aggazani, which was about 2200 including a bunch of blades. Also there is the bridgewood pbs540 (it's Italian), which comes up from time to time for about 1k.

Any of the italian saws would be worth looking at.

It would take some patience for your deal to come up.

[Guy Belleman]

Chris, lot of good advice on bandsaws, but considering that your "Projects would include acoustic guitars, wooden kayaks, and furniture" , "but no tablesaw, chop saw, jointer or planer", I am not sure the full scope of what you need is realistic with just a bandsaw. All of the folks that I know do all each of those types of projects have quite few tools, which includes at least a couple of those on your no buy list.

As far as bandsaws, I highly recommend either the Grizzly 17" or 19". Both are great saws. However, for some of your small work you might want a small saw, maybe even a scroll saw.

Good luck.

[Rich Riddle]

The MiniMax is the best of the ones you mention, the Powermatic the least desirable. I own all the brands of tools you mention and a Powermatic 143 band saw, so there is no animosity toward any brand. When picking up a Hammer K3 Winner sliding table saw in Delaware last year, I was able to see the Hammer N4400 and Felder models, but don't remember seeing the Felder 510. The MiniMax is better quality and better made. If looking for the Laguna, look for the HD model, not the lesser models.

Indicate where you live so folks can offer better guidance.

1. Minimax
2. Felder/Hammer
3. Laguna models you mention
4. Powermatic
or;

1. Minimax
2. Laguna HD model
3. Felder/Hammer
4. Powermatic

[John Coloccia]

My choice would absolutely be an MM16 with a smaller bandsaw dedicated to curve cutting. I currently have a Grizz 514X2 setup for resaw/ripping and a 555 setup for curves.

[Jim Andrew]

Check to see if the Felder is still on sale. They had a pretty good end of year discount that ran into January. Minimax runs an end of year sale too. When I got my MM16 it came with some cool blocks for running narrow blades. My narrowest are 3/8" wide, no problem cutting curves.

[Bill Whig]

I've read through many of the bandsaw threads here but still would like opinions on the best all around bandsaw under $3k.

As has been implied, $3000 is a lot to spend on a bandsaw if you don't know exactly why you want it. Better to wait until you at least want resaw-capability before you buy it (IMHO). I also never heard anyone complain about having 2 bandsaws--as it reduced the need for blade changes.

Bill Whig

[Frank Drew]

As has been implied, $3000 is a lot to spend on a bandsaw if you don't know exactly why you want it. Better to wait until you at least want resaw-capability before you buy it (IMHO).


I made custom furniture for over 25 years and used my bandsaw a fair amount but only rarely resawed stock, mostly for things like drawer sides out of quartered oak; I veneered but never resawed my own veneers.

Brand new is nice, but if it was me with that budget I'd also look strongly at some older machines (Tannewitz, Yates, etc.)

[johnny means]

That type of money would get two maybe even three good bandsaws on the used market. I say this because, after owning a 24" beast for a few years, I find myself dreading every blade change. Ultimately, I'd like to have a couple more so I could optimize each for one purpose. Also, I find myself not really setting up for cuts add well as I should, because it is so tiresome. So in the end my one really capable machine rarely ever performs as well as it could.

[Loren Woirhaye]

Second-hand Northfield, Yates, Oliver. I've seen 36" Agazanni's sold real cheap too... large saws are something of a hassle to sell.

What Johnny Means says has merit too. I resaw on a Hitachi that takes a 3" wide blade. The guides are just for that blade and the optional Hitachi guides to run narrow blades are not an impressive design. I cut curves on a 20" INCA I leave set up with a 1/4" blade and never resaw on it. Changing wide blades out can be a wrestling match.

[Erik Loza]

I'll stay out of the "which brand to buy" part of the discussion for obvious reasons but do want to add my 2-cents on the question of whether to wait for a good deal on a used machine or to buy a new one.

Basically, unless collecting old iron is your hobby (and there are folks here, whose hobby it most certainly is...), I would not consider a used machine. Here is why: Deals on European-manufactured bandsaws (assuming that is what you are shooting for...) are few and far between. I talk to customers all the time who tell me, year after year, "Gee, I'm just waiting for the right deal to come down the pipeline". After hearing that, I think to myself, "Your time must not be worth very much, then". The reason I say this is because that logic assumes you will do zero woodworking in the time it takes you to find that magical deal. In other words, could you not be using that machine right now? And could the use you would be getting out of it have a value to you? I like rummaging through the discount shelf at the neighborhood hardware store but that's because I like rummaging through the discount shelves, not because I need a new nail gun. If I need a new nail gun, I'll just buy a new nail gun because I want to move forward with my projects and actually get them accomplished.

My suggestion to anyone who is considering the acquisition of a machine with the express goal of improving or otherwise enabling their workflow, regardless of what brand you want to go with, is not to wait around for a deal on a used machine. Just buy a new one. Sure, an opportunity might fall into your lap at the right moment but that is rare, very rare. Otherwise, in my experience, this is the quickest way to "not" move forward, LOL.

Getting back to a question that was mentioned earlier, any of the Euro-style bandsaws will handle thin blades, no problem. This is because the tires are flat and tracking the blades is much easier than with crowned tires that seem to be the norm among Asian machines. You will probably have to swap out the stock guides in order to go below 1/2" or so but the guide heads are generally universal and guides like the Carter Stabilizer will bolt right up to the existing bracketry. And as Mike M. pointed out, if you plan to run a thin blade quite a bit, it might make more sense to have a smaller dedicated BS just for that.

OP, best of luck in your search,

Erik Loza
Minimax USA

[Dominic Carpenter]

I love my Grizzly 17" X2. Plenty of power and accurate, well built machine. I own a hammer slider and combo machine, and the Grizzly has never disappointed me, even through a max resaw of 12".

[Ken Fitzgerald]

The used tool market is extremely variable depending on where you live. In my area, people are apparently proud of their tools and as of yet, I haven't found a good deal or a reasonable deal for a used tool on the local Craigs list. I'm not saying there haven't been or won't be a good buy in my local market, I just haven't seen it yet.

Beyond that, as someone who repaired electrical/mechanical and electronics for over 40 years, I don't want a busman's holiday. I want to work wood. I don't want to spend time rebuilding a tool, researching and waiting for replacement parts. I want to work wood.

The MM-16 gets my vote as it is what's in my shop. With a minor "adjustment" to the guard, one can position a 1/4" blade on it without changing the blade guides. I have the other blade guides and as of yet, found no reason to change them.

When I was in the market for a bandsaw, I emailed Mark Duginske concerning the Agazzani, Laguna and Mini-Max bandsaws I was considering asking for his opinion. His response was I couldn't go wrong with any of those Italian made bandsaws.

When a Creeker, a professional, lost his newly acquired used shop due to an unusually heavy snowfall most of his big power tools were ruined including his bandsaw. Members at SMC and another website took up a collection and when MM was approached about a reduction in price on a new bandsaw, the company not only donated the saw but paid shipping too. The company's generosity effected my purchasing the MM-16.

[glenn bradley]

I am also in the big saw / small saw camp. I run 3/8" and up on my 17" saw and 3/8" and down on my 10" saw. I also have a scroll saw for fretwork.

[Kelby Van Patten]

I have a Laguna 18. I love it. I was considering a 16" machine, but decided to go bigger, and I'm glad I did.

I think all of the European companies make great saws. If the choice is between a new 14" and a used 16", I would go for the used.

[Rich Riddle]

When a Creeker, a professional, lost his newly acquired used shop due to an unusually heavy snowfall most of his big power tools were ruined including his bandsaw. Members at SMC and another website took up a collection and when MM was approached about a reduction in price on a new bandsaw, the company not only donated the saw but paid shipping too. The company's generosity effected my purchasing the MM-16.I have Mini-Max, Felder/Hammer, and Agazzani in the shop and share your sentiments with Mini-Max. Not only are their products superb but the after-care they offer proves top-notch. They respond immediately and knowledgeably. Eagle Tools, particularly Jesse, responds well about the Agazzani as well. Felder/Hammer, what can one say about after care? They don't respond as fast, if they do at all. Good products though. That in itself will guide me toward Mini-Max in the future. Since the original poster is looking at both the Mini-Max and Felder/Hammer, hope he's able to factor in the after-care if he goes with one of those.

[Chris Parks]

Basically, unless collecting old iron is your hobby (and there are folks here, whose hobby it most certainly is...), I would not consider a used machine. Here is why: Deals on European-manufactured bandsaws (assuming that is what you are shooting for...) are few and far between. I talk to customers all the time who tell me, year after year, "Gee, I'm just waiting for the right deal to come down the pipeline". After hearing that, I think to myself, "Your time must not be worth very much, then". The reason I say this is because that logic assumes you will do zero woodworking in the time it takes you to find that magical deal. In other words, could you not be using that machine right now? And could the use you would be getting out of it have a value to you? I like rummaging through the discount shelf at the neighborhood hardware store but that's because I like rummaging through the discount shelves, not because I need a new nail gun. If I need a new nail gun, I'll just buy a new nail gun because I want to move forward with my projects and actually get them accomplished.

Eric has nailed it in spades, I could never understand the American logic of waiting for a deal and more importantly why the retailers encourage it. The plethora of deals and specials I get from the US retailers astonishes me, funny thing is I rarely buy anything. Waiting for a particular item to show up to save pennies is fairly pointless in my eyes.

[Stephen Cherry]

After hearing that, I think to myself, "Your time must not be worth very much, then".

Erik Loza
Minimax USA



I'm in the mid Atlantic area, and I see good deals on all sorts of machines on a regular basis. Italian, American, Taiwanese; they all come up. Ebay, craigslist, auctionzip, etc. Not every day, but pretty often enough. I can see how this would not work if there is not enough population within about a half days drive, but I'm not above getting into the old 1992 Ford pick em up truck and drive to save 2000-3000 dollars.

After all, at the end of the day, I'll still have that extra 2000-3000 dollars in my pocket! And if I decide it doesn't do what I want it to, I can sell without loosing my shirt.

Plus the concept of buying used lets you extend yourself where it would not otherwise make sense. For example, I have a ritter 23 hole line boring machine, which I bought for the whopping sum of 500 dollars.
http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?193440-Are-gloats-going-out-of-style
Anyway, I've had it over a year, and used it less than an hour, and it has earned it's keep. Plus, if I don't see a need for it any longer, I should be able to get out of it just fine.

Also got a good deal on a shaper:
http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?152605-SCMI-T110-shaper-gloat

And a table saw, which later received a scoring upgrade (total price, about 4400?):
http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?152605-SCMI-T110-shaper-gloat

My latest deal, a 1/4 crown stapler for 40 bucks. I know, it would have been very easy to hit the HD for a stapler, but as time goes by I just keep getting cheaper and cheaper:) (at this time, I also picked up a LN no 7 for 200 bucks)

[peter gagliardi]

Well, I'll be another vote "against the grain" so to speak. I have a 36" Tanny, AND a 30" Yates-American "snowflake" model. I bought BOTH of them in good running condition for less than 3k combined!! I have 22" of resaw capacity on the Tanny! The 3 phase argument not to buy disappeared a few years ago with the introduction of a tiny little box that says VFD on it! There simply is not a smoother running,longer lasting, or better cutting steel welded frame saw out there that can compete with these machines. They both weigh in at 2700 or more lbs.
I'm all for new where technology has advanced to save time and offer ease of use, but quite simply bandsaws were, are ,and probably will continue to be stone simple tools. Why not get something that is built to outlast even your grand kids?
In short, newer is not necessarily better, lighter built yes, but better no!

[Chris Morrow]

Thanks for all the replies.
I'm certainly open to buying used if I can find a saw that will work without much rehab, but Craigslist has not been particularly kind (so far).
It sounds like many people recommend the two bandsaw approach - I was afraid of that since I really don't want to give up the space. Also a lot of recommendations for the mm16 - that surprised me a little since I've heard more than a couple people say that it is really better for dedicated resaw (no geared trunnion, having to change guides for small blades, fence), but I guess I'll need to look into that more . .

[Ken Fitzgerald]

Options I'm considering:


pm1500: kinda expensive but seems to be pretty nice for my needs. Does not require guard changes going from 1/8 to 1" blades
mm16: doesn't take smaller blades without changing guides and many have described these as more dedicated resaw machines
felder510/hammer n4400: does not seem to take blades smaller than 3/8" - according to the specs
laguna 14suv: could save some money but doesn't really excite me too much - would rather go with the Powermatic
Scrounging up more $$ and going for a laguna lt16 or 18. Probably overkill and awfully expensive.


Most threads here seem to focus on resaw capabilities, but that is my lowest priority so I'm curious to hear what people think?

The OP is asking about specific band saws.

While a number people have been allowed to post about used bandsaw views, this thread has deteriorated into "New vs Used" debate. It has drifted way off the OPs topic.

When you start attacking someone's post line by line, you are no longer replying to the need of the OP but rather defending your narrow view.

[Nathan Callender]

Do you have experience using a large bandsaw or will this be your first experience? I you don't have experience with a good bandsaw, I would say to buy new, or be very picky with used. This is because if you don't know what to expect, you won't know if any problems are you, the machine, or the setup. I had a smaller bandsaw that I bought as a floor model, and I spent a good deal of time trying to get it to run smoothly, and finally sold it off. I wasn't worth the time for me, but if I knew how a bandsaw should run I could have saved myself a huge headache just turning it on in the store.

I it were me now, I'd get a mm16 if it were to be my only machine.

[Jim Andrew]

If you live in an area like mine, you won't see an Italian band saw for sale in the next 5 years. I've had mine since'05 and I have not seen a used one for sale since then.

[peter gagliardi]

I don't know where you are located, but there are always machines on woodweb, and I also saw one on Boyd on owwm.
Recently, on both I have seen Fay and Egan saws in the 36" range for around $14-1500 in working condition, these saws are as good as any of the more well known big US makers. You could get something like this with max capacity, be money ahead, and keep looking for a smaller machine with the savings, at your leisure!
In short, I guess I just feel that the used old iron is an infinitely better value at current market prices than ANY of the "new" technology being offered at current pricing. Maybe you could find a few shops in your area, and ask to stop by and talk about and evaluate first hand what people chose and why.

[John Lanciani]

Just last in line, but I think that suggesting that the OP buy a 30" or 36" piece of iron is not particularly helpful, especially in light of the list of contenders that he put forward. Most hobbiests have neither the room for, nor the ability to readily move a 2000# saw, let alone the need for it.

That being said, and given the list of options I'd give my biased reccomendation to the MM16. (I own a MM20) It will do everything that 95% of bandsaw users need, and in home use it will never wear out.

[Ken Fitzgerald]

Folks,

If you want to debate, used versus new, start your own thread.

The OP asked when considering the list he posted, what would you recommend? While it's reasonable to allow a few posts concerning used machines, it is not reasonable to allow that debate to occur in this thread. It becomes a hijacking.

[Kyle Evans]

Why would you say the pm1500 is the least desirable? I'm considering it and the lt16 hd right now. Haven't been able to look at either in person. The pm looks like a beautiful machine and seems to get good reviews from all the videos I've watched. Considering the reviews I've seen on the lt 16 3000 and their customer service it wouldn't think it would be any where near the class of the pm2000. Like I said I haven't seen any of these machines in person, just read a lot... Do you have any specific reasons for not liking the pm? I've read a lot of similar comments in negative towards the pm bandsaws but no real reasons. Just seems to be brand hating. Like hating the yellow paint job. Am I wrong?

[John Lankers]

I have the Hammer N4400, mine is a 2010 model, I run anything from 1/4" - 1" with the stock guides and wouldn't hesitate to try a 3/16" blade if I had a need for it. Having said that, I don't think you'd go wrong with any European built bandsaw (almost wrote BS :D).

[Lou Ortiz]

Out of your current list, i'd take the MM1st, Felder 2nd. I have an agazzani B24, but I would be perfectly happy with the MM.

[Matt Day]

Guys, remember to check the date of the OP's post. This one is 1.5 years old and he's likely decided by now.

[Alan Lightstone]

Guys, remember to check the date of the OP's post. This one is 1.5 years old and he's likely decided by now.
Who knows? He might still be waiting for Craig's list. ;)

personally, I would have chosen the MM16 (I have the Laguna 14SUV).

[Lou Ortiz]

Doh!

Attention to detail. I apparently just made two left arms for a chair again.

Thanks,

Lou