The last 1/4"!

[Andrew Fleck]

Hey guys,
I normally hang out in the general woodworking section, but I do read the posts here fairly often. I use both power and hand tools. Recently I began a quest to eliminate as much sanding as I can, well because I dislike it. My solution is to become better with hand planing. I'm taking the route that a lot of people do by rehabbing old Stanley's. My question concerns flattening the sole of a plane rather than planing techniques.

I have been flattening the sole of a #5 1/2 for quite a while now. The sole was pretty bad when I started so I decided to flatten it. 6 hours of rubbing that plane on sandpaper and it is nearly as flat as I can possibly make it minus the last 1/4" in the heel. That is between .001 and .002 lower than the rest of the plane. I checked this with my Starrett straight edge and feeler gauges. Will this adversely affect the planes operation if I leave it as is? To be quite honest I'm tired of sanding this sole, but I will continue if it is necessary.

My goal at least at first is to use the #5 1/2 to remove machine marks and my #4 to smooth the wood. My #4 works great, but the sole is flat through the heel on it.

Anybody have any thoughts on this?

[Gordon Eyre]

You have gone above and beyond with your sole flattening. There is no way this last 1/4" could affect the use of this plane.

[Joe Bailey]

You have gone above and beyond with your sole flattening. There is no way this last 1/4" could affect the use of this plane.

I must agree

[Steve Voigt]

Agree with everyone else--you were done a long time ago.
By the way, if you are just removing machine marks from boards that are functionally flat, there's no need for you to use both those planes. You are just making extra work for yourself. Use one or the other, doesn't matter much which one.

[John Coloccia]

If you think the last 1/4" is bad, wait until you get to the last 1/16" :)

The only ill effect is that the plane is effectively 1/4" shorter than it could be. I'd call it a day too.

[Sean Hughto]

More power to you if you like this flattening stuff. I write for those that might be considering duplicating your effort and might value another opinion. This is the kind of thing that gives fettling a bad name. And is completely unnecessary. These old bench planes are not rare. If you really get one that won't take a shaving because it has some wacky sole warp - and I've seen and own a lot of old Stanley's and never come across one yet - buy another one. If you want to rub your plane on sandpaper, whatever you accomplish in 15 minutes will be fine. And mind you, the whole sole does not have to be a perfect gleaming surface in a single geometric plane for the plane to function; as long as there is no hollow in front of the mouth or some crazy high spot somewhere else, you're good.

Old Stanley's are great. The aren't LNs and won't be with fettling (no matter how many hours you do) but they will do a good job with anything you need.

[Andrew Fleck]

Thanks for the replies. That's a relief knowing that I can finally stop. I can think of more exciting things to do other than flatten a plane. I plan on picking up a #8 soon and plan on scaling back the flattening if it needs it.

[Andrew Fleck]

If you think the last 1/4" is bad, wait until you get to the last 1/16" :)

The only ill effect is that the plane is effectively 1/4" shorter than it could be. I'd call it a day too.

I don't even want to think about the last 1/16". It would be about 2 hours away!

[george wilson]

The last bit takes hugely longer because you are having to remove metal from an increasingly larger area as you go along. I just can't stand it unless I get it all,though. Too much OCD. But,OCD makes for the best craftsmanship.

[Sean Hughto]

At what point might you do more harm than good - widening mouths or thinning soles? I've heard of people overdoing it with machines. I wonder how many hours to get there by hand? Also, what do you think is the practical size limts on the plane the average woodworker, as opposed an expert like yourself, could do by hand and hope to actually achieve a flat sole?

[maximillian arango]

I guess it's time to take the planes off sand paper lol. Wish I started this thread my self, I haven't put that much time into one plane but in three planes I've got maybe 10 hours. Now I have to figure out how to get it so shiny.

[Jim Koepke]

Too bad you didn't ask before you put all that time into it.

My planes have to have a lot more than just a bit of rounding at the toe and heel before they get their soles lapped.

jtk

[Roy Lindberry]

Hey guys,
I normally hang out in the general woodworking section, but I do read the posts here fairly often. I use both power and hand tools. Recently I began a quest to eliminate as much sanding as I can, well because I dislike it. My solution is to become better with hand planing. I'm taking the route that a lot of people do by rehabbing old Stanley's. My question concerns flattening the sole of a plane rather than planing techniques.

I have been flattening the sole of a #5 1/2 for quite a while now. The sole was pretty bad when I started so I decided to flatten it. 6 hours of rubbing that plane on sandpaper and it is nearly as flat as I can possibly make it minus the last 1/4" in the heel. That is between .001 and .002 lower than the rest of the plane. I checked this with my Starrett straight edge and feeler gauges. Will this adversely affect the planes operation if I leave it as is? To be quite honest I'm tired of sanding this sole, but I will continue if it is necessary.

My goal at least at first is to use the #5 1/2 to remove machine marks and my #4 to smooth the wood. My #4 works great, but the sole is flat through the heel on it.

Anybody have any thoughts on this?

After spending hours flattening my first two planes, I've come up with a rule: don't bother flattening the sole unless the plane isn't performing its designated task. I've since acquired eight more Stanleys and have yet to flatten a sole. And they are all performing beautifully.

[Winton Applegate]

I know, I know,
you want to wrestle this pig and pin him to the mat.
But
six hours times fifty dollars an hour shop time (cheep) . . .
. . . now let me see . . . that's . . . don't tell me . . .
Well any way it is more than buying one of these that will make you smile every time you use it.

http://www.leevalley.com/US/wood/page.aspx?p=45156&cat=1,41182

[Winton Applegate]

The last 6.35 mm
why didn't I think of this before !
(when I was lapping my planes ha,ha,ha)
Are you ready ?
The simpest solutions are the hardest to arrive at.

SAW OFF THE LAST 6.35 mm

[Jessica Pierce-LaRose]

But
six hours times fifty dollars an hour shop time (cheep) . . .

Man, I wish I made fifty bucks an hour.

[Winton Applegate]

Well you know what I mean though. When some one walks in the door and says what is your shop rate?
Here is a humorous little story.
About twelve or fifteen years ago I was working at a high end body and paint shop, Porsche, Mercedes, Audi etc.
A guy walked in off the street, looked at the list of repair rates on the wall and was then shown in to the "inner sanctum" to talk to the owner.
The customer wanted some fiberglass work done . . .
This was when we were so busy we couldn't imagine keeping up with all we already had to do.
Remember those days?
Those GOOD old days of long ago? Around that time I made a transition and both places were like that.
. . . any way . . . where was I ?
oh yah . . .
The customer says to the owner "I need you to do some fiberglas work for me. When shall I bring the car in ?"
The owner says "We don't do fiber glass work".
Customer says "Your sign says Fiber glass work $45 an hour".
The owner says "Where's it say that"?
They walked back into the waiting room office.
The customer pointed at the sign.
The owner whipped out a magic marker, put a one to the left of the 4 and walked back into the shop.
Yah he was a little nuts but fun to work with. Well not fun exactly. But that was.

[Winton Applegate]

Or look at it this way . .
Home shop, not going to make money from it.
Well you have only a few hours to Have A Good Time there each week.
What's that worth to ya' ?
Probably more than your hourly wage at work right ?
I know if some one came over and wanted me to use up my prescious shop time on THEiR stuff (or fixing something THEY should have done right the first time like the plane sole) I would be charging out the keeester.

[David Weaver]

If you lap a plane, you want to do as little as possible, and disregard cosmetics. Prettier from hours of work usually means less flat.

[Andrew Fleck]

Or look at it this way . .
Home shop, not going to make money from it.
Well you have only a few hours to Have A Good Time there each week.
What's that worth to ya' ?
Probably more than your hourly wage at work right ?
I know if some one came over and wanted me to use up my prescious shop time on THEiR stuff (or fixing something THEY should have done right the first time like the plane sole) I would be charging out the keeester.


I actually do enjoy tuning up old tools, but lapping a plane doesn't fall into the enjoyment part. Oh well, lesson learned. At least I will always have those 6 hours to serve as a reminder to not do it again in case I get a wild idea in the future. The Lee Valley plane you linked to in your other post is nice, but my current train of thought is to learn on these old planes and figure out what I like and don't like. This #5 1/2 feels nice to me right now, but I haven't even made a shaving with it yet. I might find that a #5 or even a #6 is right for me in actual use.


While I feel the lapping was unenjoyable, I do feel it was time well spent for me because I learned from it.


There is also a certain nostalgia that goes along with restoring theses old planes for me. I found this one in an old barn that is partially collapsed. It probably hasn't taken a shaving in half a century or even longer. (This is the # 5 1/2 with a 2 1/4" wide blade.) A get personel satisfaction knowing that this plane will be used once again when it was almost certainly going to rot and erode away eventually.

[Andrew Fleck]

If you lap a plane, you want to do as little as possible, and disregard cosmetics. Prettier from hours of work usually means less flat.

I lapped purely from a functional standpoint after researching the spiderweb of information out there. The problem for a guy like me who has relatively little experience with hand planes is the volume of information on the internet or books, magazines, etc for that matter. For every post or article you find that advocates leaving your plane bottom alone or just lightly touching it up you find one that advocates doing the exact opposite. In my case I had to make a decision. To my inexperienced eye the bottom of the plane was a little out of tune.


Luckily I read some pretty good articles about lapping planes that prevented me from ruining the plane. I can see how you could easily make things worse if you weren't careful. Will I ever lap a plane again? No. As was suggested earlier I will put my next one into action without lapping and see how it works. If it doesn't I will toss it and get another. As Sean said, they did seem to make an endless amount of these things over the years.


If my woodworking ever gets to a point where a truly flat bottom really matters then I will probably just buy a premium plane and be done with it.