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Dave Lehnert
01-10-2014, 9:46 PM
Never used a service like this before but for the price may give it a try.

I have a Kindle Fire HD. Amazon Prime is $79/ year with no minimum free shipping. How is selection compared to Netflix?

Netflix is $7.99 a month. Only interested in streaming movies,

What is the selection like on Netflix? I looked at Netflix.com and thought the selection was kinda weak. Is it only a sample of movies offered then once you subscribe you get to see the full selection?

How hard is it to cancel the service. Want no part of spending months on end trying to dump the service if I do not like it.

Any woodworking related videos available.

Rich Riddle
01-10-2014, 10:16 PM
I have had both and still use Amazon Prime. It's more or less free movies since the shipping on items is worth the expense. Their selection is about as good as Netflix. Neither have recent movies, but I like John Wayne, Jimmy Stewart, Clark Gable, submarine movies, Westerns, etc. John Wayne, Jimmy Stewart, and Clark Gable haven't made made any recent movies.

Phil Thien
01-10-2014, 10:22 PM
I also have them both. I need Amazon Prime because of the free shipping (my business sources product there sometimes). I added Netflix because there is stuff that wasn't available for free at Amazon Prime. For example, Netflix has all the episodes for Breaking Bad including in the monthly fee, Amazon wanted me to pay something like $1 or $2 per episode.

I've had them both for a while now, I not longer have cable TV.

I just signed-up for a trial of Hulu Plus. I don't like the commercials. I'll probably drop that one.

Chuck Stewart
01-11-2014, 12:26 AM
If you shop at Amazon you can't beat that prime two day shipping though it does not apply to everything. You also get one free book a month to borrow for your Kindle. I just signed up for a thing called Kindle First (free) where they offer a choice of a book per month that has not been released yet. In the past their movie collection seemed to be lacking anything new but I read in the tech news that they are beefing it up to compete with Netflix. I have not checked it out yet however. I like Amazon but I read recently that they rate near the top for most disgruntled employees, maybe there is a price for us getting our stuff so quickly.

Stephen Cherry
01-11-2014, 1:38 AM
I can't compare it the other, but netflix gives tons for the 8 dollars per month.

Pat Barry
01-11-2014, 8:06 AM
My wife is using the free trial to NetFlix right now but they don't seem to have a big selection of new releases. I've also been looking at another, similar option, RedBox streaming. They have newer movies (it seems) not sure their total catalog is as big as the other two mentioned. It could be RedBox is more geared to new releases. Anyone here have experience with RedBox?

Larry Browning
01-11-2014, 8:08 AM
Movies are not the strength of Netflix. They have very few recent movies. TV shows are their strength. They have many really good British tv shows that have never been on us channels. We are watching one now called Foyles War which is very good. Plus, they are starting to develop original programming to compete with HBO.

Bonnie Campbell
01-11-2014, 8:56 AM
I have Prime, Netflix and Hulu plus. Each one has it's good points. About a year ago Netflix used to be better. They lost over 3000 movies when they made a deal to have Disney movies. It is a cheaper option than cable or satellite.

Ole Anderson
01-11-2014, 10:21 AM
We have Amazon Prime to get their free shipping, and let me tell you they are loosing money on us. At least half of our Christmas shopping used Amazon prime. We also have Netflix and that is where we started streaming to our Blu-ray player and to the TV. Both services have been problematic due to our Sony Blu-ray player having issues with the streaming servers. Lots of buffering issues. We mostly watch TV series. Recent favorite was the Canadian show Flashpoint, the best police series we have ever seen. We switched over to Amazon to watch season four due to buffering issues with Netflix. When we went to season five, Amazon wanted $2.99 per episode for HD quality, even with Amazon Prime, so we went back to Netflix to struggle to finish out the series.

Michael Mahan
01-11-2014, 10:48 AM
Movies are not the strength of Netflix. They have very few recent movies. TV shows are their strength. They have many really good British tv shows that have never been on us channels. We are watching one now called Foyles War which is very good. Plus, they are starting to develop original programming to compete with HBO.
I've watched every Foyles War on the local PBS station here for years !

Judson Green
01-11-2014, 12:50 PM
Just before Christmas I elfed myself a Netflix subscription and a Cromecast dongle (was on sale at BB for 30 bucks). Super awesomely cool. Not sure that Amazon has a Cromecast app but for the little extra chedder being able to watch streaming Netflix in the TV is dreamy.

Netflix has a 30 day free trial.

I've got no affiliation with any of the above, other than being a happy consumer.

Mike Henderson
01-11-2014, 1:43 PM
I haven't used either service so I have a question for those who do use them. How do you connect from your Internet to the TV? It seems that you'd need something like a portable PC to connect to the Internet and do the selection of the movie, then have an HDMI connection to your TV.

I don't have any game consoles or BlueRay players - just a set top box connected via Ethernet to ATT U-Verse, and an HDMI connection from the set top box to the TV. The TVs I have do not have WiFi built in - just an HDMI connection.

Given that, how would I watch Netflix or Amazon Prime movies on my TV?

Mike

Phil Thien
01-11-2014, 2:12 PM
I haven't used either service so I have a question for those who do use them. How do you connect from your Internet to the TV?

I use a Roku, which is a little device that has a wireless transceiver and an HDMI port, along with a remote control. You connect the HDMI to your TV, and use the remote to configure the Roku for wireless access to your Internet router. Then you can add "channels" for Amazon or Netflix or Hulu or others (one of my favorites of late is PBS).

I think the Roku can also be hardwired, but the wireless works fine for me.

Mark Bolton
01-11-2014, 2:25 PM
We have Amazon Prime to get their free shipping, and let me tell you they are loosing money on us. At least half of our Christmas shopping used Amazon prime. We also have Netflix and that is where we started streaming to our Blu-ray player and to the TV. Both services have been problematic due to our Sony Blu-ray player having issues with the streaming servers. Lots of buffering issues. We mostly watch TV series. Recent favorite was the Canadian show Flashpoint, the best police series we have ever seen. We switched over to Amazon to watch season four due to buffering issues with Netflix. When we went to season five, Amazon wanted $2.99 per episode for HD quality, even with Amazon Prime, so we went back to Netflix to struggle to finish out the series.

Ole, we have the same problem with sony and I have gone around with them (sony) about it several times. The issue is they route all their traffic through their sony servers (gaming as well) which creates a horrific bottleneck. I have threatened many times to drive a railroad spike through the sony blueray and ship it to the US CEO. Its well documented that sony has this issue but they simply wont admit it or address it. Streaming from any device other than sony is fine. Its too bad for the providers (amazon/netflix) as people think its an issue with them but it has nothing to do with them.

Mike Henderson
01-11-2014, 2:26 PM
I use a Roku, which is a little device that has a wireless transceiver and an HDMI port, along with a remote control. You connect the HDMI to your TV, and use the remote to configure the Roku for wireless access to your Internet router. Then you can add "channels" for Amazon or Netflix or Hulu or others (one of my favorites of late is PBS).

I think the Roku can also be hardwired, but the wireless works fine for me.
Thanks, Phil. When you use Roku, how do you select the movie you want to see? Do you get a "selection screen" on the TV that allows you to browse the movies available and make your selection? Or do you make the selection on your PC and then tell the system to stream to Roku?

Mike

Mark Bolton
01-11-2014, 2:26 PM
Never used a service like this before but for the price may give it a try.

I have a Kindle Fire HD. Amazon Prime is $79/ year with no minimum free shipping. How is selection compared to Netflix?

Netflix is $7.99 a month. Only interested in streaming movies,

What is the selection like on Netflix? I looked at Netflix.com and thought the selection was kinda weak. Is it only a sample of movies offered then once you subscribe you get to see the full selection?

How hard is it to cancel the service. Want no part of spending months on end trying to dump the service if I do not like it.

Any woodworking related videos available.


My $0.02 is if you dont care about the shipping from amazon, netflix is much better. But as others have said, I use the heck out of Amazon Prime for shipping so the 79 is worth it regardless of the streaming. Both in the winter is my option.

Phil Thien
01-11-2014, 2:33 PM
Thanks, Phil. When you use Roku, how do you select the movie you want to see? Do you get a "selection screen" on the TV that allows you to browse the movies available and make your selection? Or do you make the selection on your PC and then tell the system to stream to Roku?

Mike

Once you go into a channel there are menus with movies/shows, typically categorized by genre. They include graphics like you might see on the cover of a DVD release, it reminds me a lot of browsing the isle of a Blockbuster store.

The Netflix and Amazon interfaces are very similar. Hulu is a little less organized it seems (but I haven't been using it that long, and there is a LOT of stuff on Hulu).

All of the channels I've tried have also had a "search" feature in case you know something is there but just can't find it buried in a category somewhere.

Judson Green
01-11-2014, 2:36 PM
I haven't used either service so I have a question for those who do use them. How do you connect from your Internet to the TV? It seems that you'd need something like a portable PC to connect to the Internet and do the selection of the movie, then have an HDMI connection to your TV.

I don't have any game consoles or BlueRay players - just a set top box connected via Ethernet to ATT U-Verse, and an HDMI connection from the set top box to the TV. The TVs I have do not have WiFi built in - just an HDMI connection.

Given that, how would I watch Netflix or Amazon Prime movies on my TV?

Mike

The Cromecast is like a big USB dongle but it goes in a HDMI port. Also needs power if your HDMI port is not powered. Works on your Wi-Fi (your router assigns it an IP). You've got to do a bit of setup but after that its clear sailing. Not really sure the magic behind it but you start, pause and stop a movie with your phone (tablet, PC) but it doesn't use your devices processor or battery. Guess it sort of hands the signal over, but keeps the device aware of what's going on.

No remote, gotta use your phone or whatever.

Phil Thien
01-11-2014, 2:37 PM
My $0.02 is if you dont care about the shipping from amazon, netflix is much better. But as others have said, I use the heck out of Amazon Prime for shipping so the 79 is worth it regardless of the streaming. Both in the winter is my option.

The only thing I'll add is that, with Amazon you can watch new releases (at a cost). So if there is a movie you'd like to see and it isn't going to be available on any of the free services anytime soon, and if you don't want to go out to a Redbox (for instance), you can rent it from Amazon.

I don't know if that would work unless you were a member of Prime. If you aren't a member of Prime, I don't think you can add the Amazon channel, in which case you couldn't watch the new movies, either.

OTOH, there are quite a few other movie channels being added to Roku where you could side-step Amazon altogether. I just sort of like Amazon because I know they have bandwidth to spare and some complaints about alternative movie channels seems to relate to buffering because the channel's provider doesn't have sufficient bandwidth.

I'm fortunate because I need Amazon Prime even w/o the Roku channel. The decision is already made for me.

Dave Lehnert
01-11-2014, 2:50 PM
You do not have to be a Amazon Prime member to rent movies. You will see movies for rent for $2.99 but also say "free to Prime members"

I my case I hook my Amazon Kindle fire to the TV via a cable. Not only can I watch movies from Amazon or Netflix You can also watch Youtube videos (but the quality of most YT videos are poor) or look at your photos stored on the device.

Larry Browning
01-12-2014, 9:52 AM
As for new releases, we use a service called Vudu. They do not have a subscription fee of any kind. You need to register with your credit card info and then you rent movies on demand and only pay for what you rent. Their fees are a a little higher than at a video store, but you will never have the hassle of going to the video store and returning the DVD. Plus, the movies are always in stock. I think that you can do the same thing with Amazon.

If you are considering getting into the streaming video game, your biggest consideration needs to be your streaming device. I have learned that the built in streamers, such as a smart TV or Blu-ray player are probably your worst choice. A dedicated player is much better. I started out using an LG BD570 blu-ray player that I purchased with streaming in mind. I found out right away that LG was not in the streaming device business, they sell TVs and disc players. The added the streamer as a marketing strategy. Therefore they do not keep up with the latest technology. A dedicated Streamer (such as the Roku) is designed to be a streamer and Roku lives and dies with the streaming technology. For instance, The Netflix app recently got a complete overhaul on the Roku and is probably best streaming UI for any service on the market. I think it is available on the Roku 3 and maybe just a few others. Each device will have it's own set of apps and services that it supports so it is a good idea to try as best you can to determine which services you are going to use and make sure the device you choose supports those services.
The other thing to consider is your internet speed and the wireless router you are using. I recently upgraded mine and it made a world of difference in video quality.

Dennis Peacock
01-12-2014, 3:14 PM
I have found that Sony, Samsung, and LG all 3 have streaming issues. People that I've talked to that use Roku or Apple TV do not have the same streaming issues as the smart devices. My next move will be to a Roku 3.

Jim Becker
01-12-2014, 3:43 PM
We've had Netflix in the past, but since we already have an Amazon Prime membership (we buy a lot through them), it made the most sense to use AP for our occasional movie streaming needs. We stream through a Panasonic BluRay player in our media room. The Samsung TV in our master bedroom is also capable of streaming, but we've never bothered with that...don't really watch much!

Lee Reep
01-12-2014, 4:19 PM
We have Netflix, and like it for old TV shows. We do not expect to see a blockbuster movie show up ant time soon after it disappears from the theathers. My wife and I watch the first 4 seasons of Breaking Bad in 6 days! That was intense. Netflix only has the first 1/2 of season 5, so I am getting a little tired opf waiting to see season 5.

My daughter has cancelled and re-initiated Netflix numerous times, so apparently it is not hard to cancel.

I am currently watchin Battlestar Gallactica from about 10 years ago, and halfway thru the 76 or 77 episode. That is what makes Netflix so nice, at least for us. We stream thru a 3 year old BluRay player, and periodically it goes out and loads, which is annoying. I suppose I ought to just spend the $30 and get a Chromecast. The BluRay player also has Pandora and YouTube apps, so it is pretty handy, and easy to use. The use model on ours is that we open Netflix from our laptop or iPad, and add shows we want to our "Watch List". They then appear on the Watch List on the BluRay player. I beleive the newer players let you interacy with Netflix and other services from the player itself. I do not find the use model ab issue -- since we could be usign the laptop or iPad anytime, and anywhere, to browse Netflix and add shows to our Watch List.

I probably should look into making the straming function simpler for us, and convince myt wife that we need to dump DISH. But she uses the DVR to record a lot of shows to watch at other times, and that feature is simple on DISH. (And it should be for what we pay!)

Larry Browning
01-12-2014, 4:41 PM
If you have a roku, there is a ios and android app that can take the place of the remote. It has all teh features of the remote plus the ability to use the keyboard for searching. I use it all the time instead of the remote that came with the roku.

If you like to stream local content to your tv, check out the Roku app PLEX. It is awesome!

Ole Anderson
01-13-2014, 7:43 AM
I've had it with the buffering issues of my Sony Bly-Ray player. Roku at $99 or Chromecast at $35. Any reason not to just pick up a Chromecast at Wal-Mart and give it a shot. We certainly have enough IPhones and IPads around the house to serve as a remote. If it just plugs into the HDMI port, seems like it couldn't be easier. As long as the wireless setup is painless. Does it work with Amazon?

Brian Elfert
01-13-2014, 9:19 AM
One of the big issues with streaming is the exclusivity agreements various streaming services have with the movie studios. Studios seems to want to partner with just one streaming service and not allow other streaming services to have their content. You have to subscribe to more than one service if you want to see everything.

There is also the issue of the 28 day waiting period after release of the DVD before new releases can go to streaming. (Studios don't want streaming cutting into DVD sales.) If you don't need to see a new release right away then this isn't an issue.

Phil Thien
01-13-2014, 9:27 AM
I've had it with the buffering issues of my Sony Bly-Ray player. Roku at $99 or Chromecast at $35. Any reason not to just pick up a Chromecast at Wal-Mart and give it a shot. We certainly have enough IPhones and IPads around the house to serve as a remote. If it just plugs into the HDMI port, seems like it couldn't be easier. As long as the wireless setup is painless. Does it work with Amazon?

I haven't tried a Chromecast, but I was concerned a bit that it would tie-up my iPhone or iPad while I was watching a movie. I often like to "watch" a movie while I'm checking SMC. Will that work?

Larry Browning
01-13-2014, 9:31 AM
There is also the issue of the 28 day waiting period after release of the DVD before new releases can go to streaming. (Studios don't want streaming cutting into DVD sales.) If you don't need to see a new release right away then this isn't an issue.
Are you sure about that 28 day thing? Because it seems to me that Vudu has the new releases available the very same day they are released on DVD. As I recall, they have them available for "sale" and not for "rent" first, and then after a period of time (maybe it is the 28 days) they are available for rent. Of course I could be wrong about that, because I don't follow it that close.

Brian Elfert
01-13-2014, 9:50 AM
Are you sure about that 28 day thing? Because it seems to me that Vudu has the new releases available the very same day they are released on DVD. As I recall, they have them available for "sale" and not for "rent" first, and then after a period of time (maybe it is the 28 days) they are available for rent. Of course I could be wrong about that, because I don't follow it that close.

It may not apply to all streaming services, but most. If the movie is available to buy rather than rent then the studio isn't losing a DVD sale.

Judson Green
01-13-2014, 10:46 AM
I've had it with the buffering issues of my Sony Bly-Ray player. Roku at $99 or Chromecast at $35. Any reason not to just pick up a Chromecast at Wal-Mart and give it a shot. We certainly have enough IPhones and IPads around the house to serve as a remote. If it just plugs into the HDMI port, seems like it couldn't be easier. As long as the wireless setup is painless. Does it work with Amazon?


I haven't tried a Chromecast, but I was concerned a bit that it would tie-up my iPhone or iPad while I was watching a movie. I often like to "watch" a movie while I'm checking SMC. Will that work?


Setup was easy, way easy. Not sure if it works with Amazon, you will need to a little research. I got it on sale a BB for $30, and asked about returning it if it didn't live up to my expectations, the clerk said no problem. I haven't even thought of returning it. It will work with phones, tablets, or a PC. It doesn't "tie up" your phone (or whatever). not really sure how it works but it seems to initiate the movie or TV show and then hand the signal of to the Chromecast dongle. doesn't use the processor or the battery of your device. It does seem to keep it aware of what's going on though. Also its discreet you don't see it at all in front of the TV. Highly recommend it. and for 30 or 35 bucks really not that bad of a deal just make sure you can return it if you don't like it.

Bert Kemp
01-13-2014, 11:20 AM
I hook my PC directly to my big screen TV, most tv's have a place to hook up a pc . I get Netflix so I have most of the TV shows I want comm free, Most TV stations stream shows now. I get all the major sports I wanna watch, Just watched the Pats Colts game live stream (GO PATS) I get all the Nascar races, If you know how to use a search engine you can find just about any TV show, movies, or sports broadcast you want to see for free. I have never had cable, I have used the internet since mid 90's and before that had an antenna.I also get most every radio station in the world over the Inet, so no need for satellite radio. Just get your self a good set of speakers hook them to your PC and you got it all.I also use the computer for my home phone system. I Pay $61 a month for everything, Internet, TV, Movies, Phone, Radio, all of it and I'm sure I have a better selection them most people who are paying 1-200 a month for their services.

Larry Browning
01-13-2014, 12:03 PM
Setup was easy, way easy. Not sure if it works with Amazon, you will need to a little research. I got it on sale a BB for $30, and asked about returning it if it didn't live up to my expectations, the clerk said no problem. I haven't even thought of returning it. It will work with phones, tablets, or a PC. It doesn't "tie up" your phone (or whatever). not really sure how it works but it seems to initiate the movie or TV show and then hand the signal of to the Chromecast dongle. doesn't use the processor or the battery of your device. It does seem to keep it aware of what's going on though. Also its discreet you don't see it at all in front of the TV. Highly recommend it. and for 30 or 35 bucks really not that bad of a deal just make sure you can return it if you don't like it.
Judson,
I don't quite understand the concept of "casting" that is a part of Chromecast. How does that work? And what does it provide that a Roku does not? I am thinking about getting one for my bedroom and office tvs.

Judson Green
01-13-2014, 1:39 PM
Judson,
I don't quite understand the concept of "casting" that is a part of Chromecast. How does that work? And what does it provide that a Roku does not? I am thinking about getting one for my bedroom and office tvs.

I think it has more in common with a Roku player than it has differences. You must use your device to browse for your movie (TV show, you tube video). You use your device as the remote. Its smaller, completely out of view behind the TV, doesn't need a line of sight for a IR remote. Don't think its as friendly for playing your own sourced movies (other content), but with the Plex app you mentioned above I think ya can. PC users of Chrome can download an "extension" to do the job. Not sure about price points, I think the Chromecast is cheaper than the lowest priced Roku but not by much. If you have a newer TV with, I think V1.5 HDMI, you don't even need to provide a power source. If not then you need to use the supplied USB power adapter (only for power), so in my case I plugged the USB cable into my unused USB port on the TV. Oh, and its 1080, don't know what Roku is.

When I start playing a movie it starts on my device then I press the Chromecast icon at the top of the screen, then have a choice to play on device or the TV. Select TV then magically it starts playing there. Only need to do that once in a session. Like say I'm watching a few episodes of Breaking Bad, I don't need to re select to play on the tv between each episode.

By the by, how do ya like Plex?

Ole Anderson
01-14-2014, 12:37 AM
Picked up the Chromecast this evening, got it hooked up to Netflix and watched a full episode of Flashpoint without any buffering issues. It took about a half hour to initialize it and download the newest software. Only problem is that I could only use the TV speaker, so that was a bummer as I am used to 5.1 surround with a SVS sub rocking the living room. Not sure I will be able to get sound back to the receiver as the LG TV has limited outputs, one optical sound output, and the only optical on my receiver is taken with the Blu-Ray. Might just have to replace the 10 year old Yamaha receiver with a new one with HDMI inputs. Does it ever end?

Larry Browning
01-14-2014, 10:12 AM
Picked up the Chromecast this evening, got it hooked up to Netflix and watched a full episode of Flashpoint without any buffering issues. It took about a half hour to initialize it and download the newest software. Only problem is that I could only use the TV speaker, so that was a bummer as I am used to 5.1 surround with a SVS sub rocking the living room. Not sure I will be able to get sound back to the receiver as the LG TV has limited outputs, one optical sound output, and the only optical on my receiver is taken with the Blu-Ray. Might just have to replace the 10 year old Yamaha receiver with a new one with HDMI inputs. Does it ever end?
NO! It never ends. The electronic manufactures will see to that. It's what keeps our economy going.

Judson Green
01-14-2014, 11:05 AM
Picked up the Chromecast this evening, got it hooked up to Netflix and watched a full episode of Flashpoint without any buffering issues. It took about a half hour to initialize it and download the newest software. Only problem is that I could only use the TV speaker, so that was a bummer as I am used to 5.1 surround with a SVS sub rocking the living room. Not sure I will be able to get sound back to the receiver as the LG TV has limited outputs, one optical sound output, and the only optical on my receiver is taken with the Blu-Ray. Might just have to replace the 10 year old Yamaha receiver with a new one with HDMI inputs. Does it ever end?


Bummer dude!

Just using the TV speakers myself. The commercials for the sound bar thing really entice me.

Ole Anderson
01-14-2014, 11:13 AM
Bummer dude!

Just using the TV speakers myself. The commercials for the sound bar thing really entice me. Good news, my memory failed me, again. I checked and do have four, count them, four optical inputs on my receiver! But it is just old enough that it has no HDMI ports. Now I just need to get a 25' optical cable. Well, off to Amazon for some shopping.

Larry Whitlow
01-14-2014, 12:42 PM
Movies are not the strength of Netflix. They have very few recent movies. TV shows are their strength. They have many really good British tv shows that have never been on us channels. We are watching one now called Foyles War which is very good. Plus, they are starting to develop original programming to compete with HBO.

After reading your note I started watching Foyles War. It is very good and addicting. Thanks for the recommendation. However, I'm now looking at something like 30 hours of episodes to complete the series.

For whatever it is worth, I connect to Netflix via the wireless in our Sharp TV. Have not had any issues with either sound or picture. I do listen to audio via an old Denon receiver using optical cable (have the TV speakers turned off).

Jim Becker
01-14-2014, 7:38 PM
For those experiencing buffering while streaming, while your device could certainly be contributing to that, it may also be due to a "peering" problem between your Internet service provider and the content provider's storage network...congestion between your ISP and other networks. A lot of folks "out there" have been having issues with that and it may get worse now that the courts have struck down the FCC "network neutrality" rules this week. Many of the large Internet service providers prefer that you get your video on demand from them and they now have a free hand to have more control over the quality of streaming from other sources. Devices that have better buffering algorithms should help with this, however.

Greg Portland
01-14-2014, 7:51 PM
There is also the issue of the 28 day waiting period after release of the DVD before new releases can go to streaming. (Studios don't want streaming cutting into DVD sales.) If you don't need to see a new release right away then this isn't an issue.That's the minimum time. For popular titles, they go up for bid; PPV, HBO, Showtime, etc. are all bidding to own the broadcast rights for a certain # of months. It could be years before a popular title is cheap enough for Netflix to own the broadcast rights. Now, last year they tried some work-around by paying Showtime a certain fee to sub-lease their rights. I'm not sure if that will continue or not...