shopping for a new lathe

[jim boden]

started turning wood about 5 years ago on a old craftsman lathe you had to move with the wooble, stepped up to a jet 12/20 mida and although I`ve lots of nice stuff on it, it cant handle any real wieght and its been injured as a result. I`ve been looking at three lathes, and all of them have their meritts. The VB-36 the robust lathe and the serious lathe, I like the wieght,low center, digital rpm ect.. on the serious but 25" is max I like the slideing headstock on the robust and tilting tailstock, but the bearings seem small in comparision, the vb-36 seems like a great bowl lathe but only weighs in at about 400 lbs and all its weight is up high as the base is stamped steal. Any input from owners and turners on this equipment would be greatly appretiated

[Charles Coolidge]

Join me...she weighs 1,000 pounds :cool:

279517

[HANK METZ]

Join me...she weighs 1,000 pounds :cool:

279517

And here's the baby she just had, 86 lbs.:rolleyes:
279518

[Reed Gray]

Well, for me, my decision to buy the Robust was the sliding headstock. I had been turning on a PM3520A for 8 years, and loved the sliding headstock because down at one end it was a bowl lathe, and down at the other it was a spindle lathe. It is more versatile for turning bowls as well as turning spindles. Some people never use the sliding headstock which I don't understand, but having it at the end is the same as turning outboard. You can stand up straight and keep the tools in close to your body. Add in the telescoping legs, and made in the USA, and I was sold. I looked at the VB36, and no matter which configuration it was in, it said bowl lathe. I believe it is supposed to be bolted to the floor, but not positive on that one. If I was going to be turning a lot of huge bowls (24 inch would be small) I would have it as a second lathe. The Serious is a good lathe, solid and heavy, but no sliding headstock. If you live any where near me, come on by.

robo hippy

[Rex Guinn]

I have the 3520b and love it, the largest bowl I've turner is 32" oak burl. I would put my money on the robust, was in Wisc. and went to Brent's shop. If you get a chance go tour his shop

[Mike Heidrick]

And here's the baby she just had, 86 lbs.:rolleyes:
279518

That's more like the sperm than the baby LOL.

[Bill Blasic]

I'm surprised no one mentioned the Powermatic 4524b, weighing in at 900 + pounds and having a sliding headstock.

[John Thorson]

I was in Nick Cook's shop soon after he got his 4224B. He had and extension bed (or two) on it and was turning columns for the front porch on some grand old southern homes. Sliding headstock, massively built, this one should be able to handle anything. Nick said that he and Rude Osolnik worked with Powermatic to design the 3520 and 4224 and that he was also a consultant on the new 4224B. Nick is an incredibly knowledgeable turner and I'm sure he would share his opinion of bearings, etc. with you if you contact him. I have had a 3520B for a number of years and the 4224B would be on my list for consideration when I decide to replace it. Beyond size and weight increase while retaining the sliding headstock the attraction of the 4224B is the 3 hp motor. I would consider this option for the Robust American Beauty if you go that route and are really going to get into big turnings.

Take a look, there are shots of Nick doing some large architectural turnings on his website: http://www.nickcookwoodturner.com/index.htm

[Dennis Ford]

All of those lathes are very nice machines, if you need larger then look at old pattern-maker lathes or home-made.

[Peter Blair]

Drool, drool. I just have a smaller oneway which works just fine for me but if I win the lottery . . . well one of these would be in my shop.

Something that I didn't notice in the above is stainless steel ways? I would sure opt for them if I was to upgrade!!

[Hilel Salomon]

Can't speak to its performance, but if weight is a consideration, the Indian made Serious Lathe weighs 1600 lbs. It looked pretty solid to me. Indian made tractors and their recent entries into automobiles have gotten pretty good reviews. I have a PM 3520B and a DVR XP, and both will, on occasion need some additional weight which is a relatively easy matter. I wouldn't work on a huge piece on the DVR, but have occasionally done pretty heavy stuff on the PM. I also have friends who have used it on some impressive stuff. Still, if I were younger and had more money, I would probably get a Robust.

Good luck,

Hilel

[Roger Chandler]

IF the sliding headstock is not a big issue for you, then for a well built and solid machine, I don't think you could beat the Serious SL-2542. That lathe is a beast, and the folks at Serious Toolworks stand behind their product. The mass is down low, and it will handle big stuff like no other lathe on the market.

IF I were you I would at least have a conversation with the folks there at Serious Toolworks, and get the particulars.

[Scott Hackler]

I have researched all the top lathes over the last few years and last year I started saving for a Robust American Beauty. I only want to buy one more lathe so it had to have everything I desired and more. VicMark and Stubby make great lathes but they are very compact and I would have a limitation with a tall or long spindle and/or a hollowing system. VB36 and the like were out because I don't turn a lot of bowls. I looked at the Serious Lathe several times and it is impressive but most of the impressive revolves around the shear weight, not the features as all the top lathes are similar to the feature list.

So that left Robust and OneWay. Why not PM??? I am not as keen to buy China stuff. A 3520A would be on the list for best value on an USA lathe, but those days are over and the "A" is hard to find used but in good condition.

Robust vs OneWay. I like the offset head and sliding headstock of the Robust better, but the design of the bed and dependability of the OneWay is very good. Tie breaker for me.... Robust being built in the USA and the owner, Brent English, has spent many times talking to me answering all questions I come up with. He is also AT the symposiums representing his products. So my next lathe will be a Robust AB.

[Jeffrey J Smith]

Jim: I was in almost the same position two years ago - looking at Oneway 2436, Powermatic 4224, Serious and the Robust AB. I'm probably going to sound like a broken record here, but, for the kind of dent it was going to make in my turning budget the situation demanded a good, considered and well reasoned decision - the kind that can only be made by spending some time turning on all the candidates. Get a hold of the manufacturer or rep and locate one close to you that you can spend some quality time with. How they react before you buy one is just as important (and a good indicator) of how they're going to service you after you've bought it.
For me, it was going to be my last relationship, I wanted a few walks on the beach at sunset before popping the question. If you're in the Seattle area, let me know and you can spend some time with the Robust AB.
I too looked at he VB36 - there was one for sale reasonably close. Turns out the ergonomics didn't work all that well for me, but it is a great piece of equipment, if a little quirky. The new Powermatic 4224 was just out when I picked up the Robust, but, after spending some time on the older model, there wasn't that much different about the new one to overcome what I had found to be shortcomings.
The Robust for me was just a great fit from the start. It was comfortable to turn on with the headstock at either end. Smooth, powerful, comfortable, adjustable, stainless ways, Leeson 3hp; it was love with the first shavings flying off the tool. And, it's made in the USA - I can get the guy who designed it and built it on the phone and talk through anything I find. Haven't had the need, but its nice to know that they're there. The only thing it didn't have that was on my list was a digital speed readout - and, after putting one on (just to get to know the sounds it makes at different speeds - about a $35 idea) I find that I that after about 6 months, I haven't looked at it. From the very start, it seemed to fit well. Ergonomics are very important to me and the Robust seemed to adapt to me rather than me having to adapt to it as I found with the Powermatic and the Oneway. The only way I could have discovered that is to find people that were willing to let me spend a little time with their tools. I tried to be as considerate as I could be - brought my own tools, chucks, live centers, and picked up the shop when I got done - even took the shavings with me when I left.
All the lathes that were on my list were in the same ballpark for cost except the VB36 - it was at the top end of what I considered my range.
The serious is the only one I didn't get a chance to turn on, but then I decided there just wasn't enough room in my shop to put it.
You said the bearings on the Robust seem small? Could you be mistaking the size of the headstock where the bearing cassette is mounted with the size of the bearings - they are actually slightly larger than those in the Oneway or Powermatic, not sure about the Serious. Robust is the only manufacturer to warrant the bearings for a full 7 years. Talk to the people that build them, too. Brent at Robust and Clay at Oneway were both anxious to talk with a potential customer.
Good luck with your decision - enjoy the process. Don't accept anyone else's opinion without checking for yourself. What is a problem for one can be an asset to another. Locate a few lathes and talk to their owners - turn on them. It can be fun and you'll learn a lot before you're done. Best of all, you'll get what fits best. The best part - you get to meet people that like to turn as much as you do.

[Don Bunce]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Eg7v8Y4qiKU
I bought a PM3520b last month, and I don't see myself ever outgrowing it's capabilities, but after watching the videos on the VB36, IMHO, that would be the lathe to have...

They list it at 583 lbs, over 700 with the tailstock.

[Tony Rozendaal]

I've been going through this same thought process. Thanks everyone who posted.

For Jeffrey Smith - what are the perceived shortcomings of the 4224B? I have had a chance to turn on a Oneway and a Robust, but not that one.

[Brian Kent]

O Wow! Look. A green-eyed monster in my brain. :rolleyes:

(…whose name is envy and consumer lust!!!)

[Charles Coolidge]

Wow that VB36 is a beast.

[Jeffrey J Smith]

Tony - it's not that there was anything particular I didn't like about the PM4224 - it just wasn't a good fit for me. The cost was just about a wash compared to the Robust AB with the tilt-away for the tailstock, 3hp upgrade and the vacuum adapter. The PM included things I didn't need (already had a good vacuum setup) and didn't have things I wanted - stainless steel ways (I turn a lot of green wood) and the tilt-away (which I am delighted I have every time I turn). The cutaway headstock makes access to the base very easy, and the easy adjustability and range makes it simple to get the height just right.
I'm really into the ergonomics - I want the lathe to adapt to me and the Robust allows just that in my experience. I want the lathe to disappear when I turn, and for me, it does just that. It has taken some very large, very out of balance blanks and handled them with ease and grace.
I don't know if you're anywhere nearby, but your welcome to come over, bring a blank and try it out for yourself.

[David C. Roseman]

[snip] I only want to buy one more lathe...[snip]

Now Scott, don't go talking crazy. :eek:

Although I doubt anyone on this board would hold you to that.

David

[Guy Belleman]

The Robust and Oneway are both superb lathes.

[Jeffrey J Smith]

Guy - I'd add the VB36 to that and the PM4224 to the superb list, too. The decisions are weldment vs cast iron, sliding headstock vs fixed, and the various feature sets that enable the turner flexibility in how it functions.

[John Sincerbeaux]

After months and months of reading reviews and talking to many pro turners who either own or have turned on all the lathes mentioned here, I decided to go with the VB. In fact my lathe is being custom made as we speak in Germany. The VB is now owned and built by Steinert in Germany. After talking to the owner, I talked him into having my VB painted in the "Steinert" colors which is navy blue and yellow. I will probably be the only one in the world with this paint scheme on a VB for a little while anyway. Someday, all new VB's may be painted this way. I am getting into turning for one main reason... Hollow forms! I don't think there is a better lathe for doing them. I also believe the pure heft and engineering of the VB cannot be beat. I think most people assume the VB is only good for very large work. Actually, very few VB owners EVER turn what the VB is capable of. I think what most VB owners love about the lathe is how super quite and silky smooth they run. When I buy machinery, I like to "over buy" ie, I like to know the machine will always out-perform me:) I talked to two VB owners who did said the VB's were not very versatile but both those owners did not have either tailstock option. In the end, we all love what WE own:)

[Peter Blair]

I know you are going to love it!!!
Wondering out loud what you are going to hollow with.
I agree with your statement about 'over buy" that's why I use a Kobra on my Oneway!!

[Scott Hackler]

Congrats on your upcoming lathe, but you know the VB is a BOWL LATHE, right???? Unless your going to always hand hollow or have dreamed up a new captive or articulated hollowing system that has it's own base.... you wont' be able to do anything but hand hollow. There isn't a bed to attach a system to.

Don't get me wrong, its a bad _ _ _ lathe, but not what you generally would concider if you want to primarily do Hollow Forms.

[allen thunem]

scott the vb36 does have a long bed attachment but i dont know if anyone is making a hollowing system that attachs to the vb36 bed ways or tubes as it were.




Congrats on your upcoming lathe, but you know the VB is a BOWL LATHE, right???? Unless your going to always hand hollow or have dreamed up a new captive or articulated hollowing system that has it's own base.... you wont' be able to do anything but hand hollow. There isn't a bed to attach a system to.

Don't get me wrong, its a bad _ _ _ lathe, but not what you generally would concider if you want to primarily do Hollow Forms.

[Jason Edwards]

The thing I don't like about the new PM4224 is how clunky and heavy it is. While Nick Cook might find it great for doing great big columns, it is not much of a bowl or vessel lathe. The built in vacuum is a venturi style so you need a separate air compressor to run it. The index mechanism is on the outside of the headstock and you can't use the wheel as a handwheel because there is a great big pinch point. The big square headstock makes it hard to work on the base of the piece. The tool rest clamp on the banjo requires you actually bend a piece of cast iron to clamp the post. I think with the 3520, PM hit a sweet spot for a lot of turners, but missed the mark with the 4224.

[Scott Hackler]

Allen, I knew about the attachment, but being it's not standard bed ways and instead a set of tubes that are NOT both horizontal with the floor....getting a hollowing rig (that we're all used to seeing) will require a custom clamping system to attach to the top tube and firmly as to not rotate. That is of course IF he opts to get the attachment in the first place.

I have seen some MONSTER forms including hollow forms getting made with VB36, but the ones i have seen had huge openings and the turners were hollowing by hand with a giant tool rest inserted into the form.



scott the vb36 does have a long bed attachment but i dont know if anyone is making a hollowing system that attachs to the vb36 bed ways or tubes as it were.

[jim boden]

thanks so much for all the input, I havent had a chance to respond as my computer has been down. thanks for the many invites as it sounds like I need a little hands on time

[Olaf Vogel]

The old pattern-maker machines are great quality, will last forever, handle large sizes and best of all, are often very cheap.
The downside is, huge weight, some sacrifice in slickness (parts aren't as smooth or easy to adjust) , weight! (my tailstock is 200+ lbs) and non-standard parts.
But for $800 and some elbow grease, I can't complain - the lathe will outlast me. (made in 1880 and will handle 32" by 48")

So, I added a 27 in bandsaw (1907) a 12" grinder (1930) and a couple of drill presses.

all work great, for under $4k.
Kind of a different direction, but all works well and has a certain appeal working on great old machinery.

[Geoff Gaudet]

Congrats on your upcoming lathe, but you know the VB is a BOWL LATHE, right????
I've wanted a VB36 for years, because it's a bowl lathe. Alas, doubt I'll ever be able to justify one...

[Russell Eaton]

Jason, I'm a little confused as to the bent cast iron comment. I bought a 4224b right after they came out. I have turned on it for close to a year now with no issues at all. I have a local friend with a oneway and he prefers my lathe to his for turning. The headstock is box shaped but a a cheap fix is a 4 inch extention. I have only needed one a couple of times. The only other lathe I was interested in was the Robust. Brent makes a great piece of equipment.

[Quinn McCarthy]

Vega lathes never get any respect around the creek. I have the 1553 with the outboard turning atachment. Very moderately priced compared to PM and oneway lathes. Made in the US if that is a big factor for you. They have models that go to 10' between centers.

Hope that helps.

Quinn