fsl laser

[dave penosky]

is this a good one to start with

[Dave Sheldrake]

exercise some googlefu Dave and all will become clear :)

cheers

Dave

[gary l roberts]

Well, there are some who like'em and some who have used them for boat anchors. So do your homework. What are you going to do with your new toy, the occasional cut or engrave, or do you plan to take ovewr the engraveing world? PLease do searches here. I have decided all that is worth knowing about lasers (at least for me) can be found here. Best dang website around.

[Mike Null]

Dave

Do a search. FSL has been mentioned several times.

[Bert Kemp]

Do your searches here and czone and you'll learn all about them.

[Matt McCoy]

Dave: If you want an affordable introduction to laser engraving/cutting and you are not timid, then FSL can be a good purchase. The 5th Gen, for instance, is well-designed and had a successful Kickstarter campaign. The proprietary software isn't perfect, but it's quite good and FS has offered free updates to this point. The software is very easy to use and will handle most file types. If you can print from an application, you will probably be able to send the image to the laser.

Chances are you will need to contact support at some point, but they have either answered the phone or gotten back to me quickly and FSL does have some very knowledgeable people.

They also are pretty innovative and are now developing more proprietary tech like their new laser 3D printer.

I would like to mention that I have three of their lasers and I'm fine with dealing with the idiosyncratic stuff and I'm not afraid to roll up my sleeves.

[Isaac Clarke]

Chances are you will need to contact support at some point, but they have either answered the phone or gotten back to me quickly and FSL does have some very knowledgeable people.

They also are pretty innovative and are now developing more proprietary tech like their new laser 3D printer.
The 3D printer isn't really anything new, there has been kickstarters for similar printers before. One got over $2m funding :)

Don't write off chinese imports, they are good machines and a fair bit cheaper usually. What do you plan on using the machine for?

[Matt McCoy]

The 3D printer isn't really anything new, there has been kickstarters for similar printers before. One got over $2m funding :)

Don't write off chinese imports, they are good machines and a fair bit cheaper usually. What do you plan on using the machine for?

Hey Isaac: My point was that FSL is capable of developing new proprietary products to add to their line-up, like the 5th Gen. The 3D printer in the pipeline looks to be a little more than half the price of the one you refer to.

[Dan Hintz]

My point was that FSL is capable of developing new proprietary products to add to their line-up, like the 5th Gen.

I think the term "develop" is used extremely loosely here. They take an existing Chinese system and replace the controllers (initially with other off-the-shelf controllers made by someone else, but I have no idea if they use their own design finally). But it does make the system proprietary (I have rarely found that a good thing, mind you).

Maybe "tweak" is a better fit

[Matt McCoy]

@Dan. What Chinese laser did FS tweak to make the Gen 5?

Who makes their controller/code?

Thanks.

[Dave Sheldrake]

The Gen 5 machines are G Weike 3040 / 3060 series with different controllers. The hobby laser is a K40 with a different controller (and 5x the price tag)

All the machines are made in China by Weike's, the code I believe is US developed but the cards are made in China and fitted into the machines at source.

In effect the machines cost 5x the cost of a direct import of the same machine from China with a different controller card.

Fitting a Ferrari engine into a Ford doesn't make it a Ferrari.

cheers

Dave

[Matt McCoy]

Hi Dave. Thanks for jumping in. The 3040 does not look like the same machine to me. It is also my understanding that FS was assembling the Gen 5 in NV.

I'm not sure what the point of your last paragraph is.

Thanks.

[Dave Sheldrake]

They are built by Weike Matt :) or at least looking at a picture from a visit to Weike late last year that has FSL machines there being assembled.

The point was the base machine is still a basic Chinese laser just with a different control card fitted, it does not make the rest of the machine better over a standard Chinese machine quality wise. In effect I could spend thousands fitting a Trotech controller to a Shenhui machine and it wouldn't be a Trotech, it would still just be a Shenhui with a Trotech control.

Weike, much like many Chinese companies are one of those companies that will make anything they are asked to if you order enough of them.

cheers

Dave

[Matt McCoy]

Hi Dave:

The Gen 5 parts might be manufactured by Weike, but this gentleman noted that he saw it being assembled in NV. This conflicts with your earlier post.

http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?200734-Full-Spectrum-Hobby-Laser-5th-Gen-review

It also appears that the Gen 5 not the same product as the 3040/3060 as you said. This product looks to be its doppelganger.

http://fslaser.com/products/lasers/pro-series/20x12-laser-engraver

Here is a link to the FS 5th Gen.

http://fslaser.com/products/lasers/hobby-lasers/newhobby

Again, I'm not sure how the rest of your comment applies here. I don't recall reading any of the comparisons you are making. Perhaps you're thinking of a different thread. Wasn't the question "is this a good one to start with". Would you opinion be no?

Appreciate your input.

[Dave Sheldrake]

Hi Matt,

I can't reasonably say one way or the other on if they are good machines, (I don't have one here at the moment) my comparison was to make potential buyers aware that adding a proprietary control card to a basic Chinese machine doesn't change what the machine is or it's fundamental reliability.

IF FSL's support network has improved, IF they have become more customer orientated and IF the machines are more reliable than the many first hand reports I have read suggest they are then it may be a good purchase to make, sadly unless anybody (including me) has other machines to compare it to or has purchased one recently individual lone opinions are conjecture (hence why I can't realistically say one way or the other)

Would I personally buy one now? not a snowballs chance in a firestorm, I love the look of the new 3D printer they do, sadly way too much negative press about FSL would stop me considering a purchase unless I started seeing a lot more positive reports.

cheers

Dave

[Bert Kemp]

Matt go on ebay by a $500 K40, call FSL and buy a card from them for $500 and you have yourself a $3500 FSL hobby laser, and most likely better support cause you get it from ebay seller.In answer to your question is it a good first machine I think Not!

[Mike Null]

These people are advertisers on SMC. Have a look at them. http://www.thunderlaser.com/

[Dan Hintz]

These people are advertisers on SMC. Have a look at them. http://www.thunderlaser.com/

Mike,

Do we know anyone here who has purchased a machine from them yet and can attest to the QA/QC? I'd hate to be pointing someone to a company just because they're a vendor here.

[Mike Null]

Dan

I don't have any history with this company and I did not make a recommendation. Why wouldn't you inquire and evaluate them as you would any other laser engraver?

I know you read every post so surely you realize that there are no Chinese built machines without warts.

[Rodne Gold]

I am not talking about any laser or laser mnfgr here, but just in general .
Why anyone would even take the chance of buying any expensive product from a supplier that has some fair amount of negativity associated with them is beyond me.

[Jerome Stanek]

The way the FSL stated in the one video I watched is they get a laser from China and go over it and install their controller but the laser is still made in China. Like what was posted they charge 5X the price for it but it still is a laser made in China no matter how they sugar coat it.

[Matt McCoy]

Hi Matt,

I can't reasonably say one way or the other on if they are good machines, (I don't have one here at the moment) my comparison was to make potential buyers aware that adding a proprietary control card to a basic Chinese machine doesn't change what the machine is or it's fundamental reliability...

OK, fair enough. You cannot reasonably say if FS makes good machines.

There is still confusion here, though. The Gen 5 does not appear to be a basic Chinese machine. I invite you to take a look at the links I dropped earlier, if you're interested. My shop has a K40 and I have seen a Weike 3040 and neither look like the FS laser Gen 5. Furthermore, my point in my first post was that the controller card/software is fairly good and there are several posts on this forum indicating that it might be better than the standard Chinese software -- including this thread. I do not see where anyone mentioned that it would make the machine more reliable.

If you have links or info to clear this up, please feel free to post it. I would be interested.


...too much negative press about FSL would stop me considering a purchase unless I started seeing a lot more positive reports.

I agree. But the original question was along the lines of whether or not it was a good machine to start with. This does not apply to you, but I appreciate your expertise and opinion. I wanted to share my honest experience and say it could be a good starter machine. I hope that's OK and that more positive reviews will pop up about FSL and others. The more competition, the better for people interested in these machines.

Since you threw out a car analogy, I'll share a car story. Years ago in the states, Hyundai offered a low-cost automobile and sold a bunch of them. Soon the poor reliability of these relatively cheap cars caught up with them and sales plummeted as Hyundai suffered from a reputation of making crappy products. Hyundai invested in R/D and offered a 10 year/100,000 mile powertrain warranty on its cars. They are now a very popular global car maker and make reliable products.


Matt go on ebay by a $500 K40, call FSL and buy a card from them for $500 and you have yourself a $3500 FSL hobby laser, and most likely better support cause you get it from ebay seller.In answer to your question is it a good first machine I think Not!

Hi Bert: Again, the Gen 5 is not a K40 and I believe FSL's cards start at $750. The Engrave 3D Ethernet, which comes on the 5th Gen is $1,500.

Ebay is a fine resource for someone that wants to source cheaper replacement parts, such as power supplies or tubes. I'm not confident enough to say empirically that eBay sellers have better support. I've been burned a few times.

http://fslaser.com/products/accessories-1/retinaengrave-usb-laser-controller-software-upgrade

Guys, I know you get what you pay for, but in this case it might still be a machine to start engraving and cutting material.

As a sidebar -- what do you do if you import a lemon from China? Do you pay to ship it back?

Thanks for the discussion.

[Matt McCoy]

The way the FSL stated in the one video I watched is they get a laser from China and go over it and install their controller but the laser is still made in China. Like what was posted they charge 5X the price for it but it still is a laser made in China no matter how they sugar coat it.

This was true a couple years ago with the Deluxe Hobby laser.

[Dave Sheldrake]

Way I see it Matt the new user is the one most likely to need the best support with their purchase. Based on numerous internet postings, personal email and blogs the support from FSL seems to be getting better,note "better" by all accounts I see better is still not good or excellent.

If I was in a position to publish private emails I could happily post pictures from last November showing the machines being made in China :(

cheers

Dave

[Jerome Stanek]

As a sidebar -- what do you do if you import a lemon from China? Do you pay to ship it back?

you pay to ship it back to FSL also and you may have to pay for any repairs that they make. warranty is a little help on a hobby laser from them. You can look up FSL free forums for help but they are not associated with FSL but a good group that tries to help

[Matt McCoy]

Thanks for the info Jerome.

I was referring to the lasers imported from China through eBay, Alibaba, or with a broker. I'm just curious.

[Dan Hintz]

Why wouldn't you inquire and evaluate them as you would any other laser engraver?

I know you read every post so surely you realize that there are no Chinese built machines without warts.

I'm not suggesting otherwise, but if I were the buyer I would hope someone else had already vetted the machine/company for me... if someone knew of a prior review, hopefully that would have prompted them to post a link or similar. Ray at Rabbit Laser has shown time and again to be a quality vendor... things do go wrong, but when they do he takes care of the problem. It may be Chinese equipment, but I recommend him (and his machines) whenever someone on a limited budget asks. FSL, on the other hand, has shown many of the opposite attributes over the years (giving Keith the virtual finger, so to speak, when he first came on here... If there are other vendors that can give Ray/Rabbit a run for their money, all the better.


what do you do if you import a lemon from China? Do you pay to ship it back?

Generally, you suck it up and eat the cost. Even with $100k machines, the Chinese are very reticent to takes merchandise back and refund money. For the many years I was having PCBs manufactured there for my LED business, if they made a mistake, the answer was "Suck it up, buttercup!" They're happy to do it again, but they expect full payment a second time, too. On top of that, shipping is in China's favor by a long shot. Our government worked out a wonderful trade deal (for them) where shipping from China to the US is dirt cheap compared to the reverse. For example, a 10kg machine roughly 2' cubed will run you around $30 shipped from China... ship it back to the same address and expect to pay $150. It means eBay stuff can be had for great shipping prices, but if anything is wrong, it needs to be a really expensive item to make return shipping worthwhile (of course, they all guarantee full refund... minus return shipping charges).

[Mike Null]

So you, as a a non-contributing member, would not suggest that one check out a paying advertiser who, with their advertising, help to keep SMC afloat. Very interesting.

[Dan Hintz]

So you, as a a non-contributing member, would not suggest that one check out a paying advertiser who, with their advertising, help to keep SMC afloat. Very interesting.

What? That's not what I said at all!

EDIT: And last time I checked, I contribute my time, knowledge, and experience multiple times throughout the day for free. Though if you'd prefer I keep quiet and pay $6/yr, I'm happy to oblige.

[Mike Null]

You didn't?
Do we know anyone here who has purchased a machine from them yet and can attest to the QA/QC? I'd hate to be pointing someone to a company just because they're a vendor here.

[Dan Hintz]

You didn't?
If you read my later posts, I explained... I was hoping someone would come forward with a review of the company/equipment. I even said it would be a good thing if there were more known quality vendors than just Ray/Rabbit. If the company you point to is one of those, then that's great (for all of us). I simply can't understand how you're reading what I'm saying as negative.

[Rodne Gold]

The modular way the lasers are made in china does not require shipping back , the only case where a machine would have to be shipped back is if the laser was dropped and the frame was warped or something like that.. the rest of the parts are small , not propriety to the mnfgr (easy to substitute another generic part) and easily and quite cheaply shipped barring tubes - which are a little bulky but can be found locally anyway. I have been to the factories as well , its not the cheap labour (which isn't that cheap anyway) that make these machines affordable , its actually the fact that they all use more or less the same parts and economies of scale come into play big time.

[Mike Lassiter]

So you, as a a non-contributing member, would not suggest that one check out a paying advertiser who, with their advertising, help to keep SMC afloat. Very interesting.

Mike, is the fact that they contribute to SMC suppose to be taken by the users here as an endorsement of the contributor by SMC? That anyone contributes to SMC doesn't make their products worthy of recommendation based solely on that contribution alone in my opinion. It would take more than that for me to make a purchase, and it would take more than one or two recommendations before I would also. And, it would take more than that speaking against anyone to turn me way. Personally, I would try to gather as much information as I could good and bad and make the best informed decision I could with those facts.

[Bert Kemp]

[QUOTE=Matt Mccoy;2209830]OK, fair enough. You cannot reasonably say if FS makes good machines.

There is still confusion here, though. The Gen 5 does not appear to be a basic Chinese machine. I invite you to take a look at the links I dropped earlier, if you're interested. My shop has a K40 and I have seen a Weike 3040 and neither look like the FS laser Gen 5. Furthermore, my point in my first post was that the controller card/software is fairly good and there are several posts on this forum indicating that it might be better than the standard Chinese software -- including this thread. I do not see where anyone mentioned that it would make the machine more reliable.

If you have links or info to clear this up, please feel free to post it. I would be interested.



I agree. But the original question was along the lines of whether or not it was a good machine to start with. This does not apply to you, but I appreciate your expertise and opinion. I wanted to share my honest experience and say it could be a good starter machine. I hope that's OK and that more positive reviews will pop up about FSL and others. The more competition, the better for people interested in these machines.

Since you threw out a car analogy, I'll share a car story. Years ago in the states, Hyundai offered a low-cost automobile and sold a bunch of them. Soon the poor reliability of these relatively cheap cars caught up with them and sales plummeted as Hyundai suffered from a reputation of making crappy products. Hyundai invested in R/D and offered a 10 year/100,000 mile powertrain warranty on its cars. They are now a very popular global car maker and make reliable products.



Hi Bert: Again, the Gen 5 is not a K40 and I believe FSL's cards start at $750. The Engrave 3D Ethernet, which comes on the 5th Gen is $1,500.

Ebay is a fine resource for someone that wants to source cheaper replacement parts, such as power supplies or tubes. I'm not confident enough to say empirically that eBay sellers have better support. I've been burned a few times.

http://fslaser.com/products/accessories-1/retinaengrave-usb-laser-controller-software-upgrade

Guys, I know you get what you pay for, but in this case it might still be a machine to start engraving and cutting material.

As a sidebar -- what do you do if you import a lemon from China? Do you pay to ship it back?

Hi Bert: Again, the Gen 5 is not a K40 and I believe FSL's cards start at $750. The Engrave 3D Ethernet, which comes on the 5th Gen is $1,500.

I have engrave 3d on my old 4th gen hobby, so I don't know where you come up with your figures. Look I can't get in this argument here. Do what you want.

[Mike Null]

Mike Lassiter
I would agree that advertising on SMC doesn't buy endorsement but it should at least get consideration if one is doing serious comparison shopping. None of my remarks included an endorsement but I wouldn't endorse any Chinese brand as I have had no hands on experience with them. Based on experiences shared by others I don't believe a Chinese machine would do the job for me.