Oh no! I'm getting old!!

[Alan Schaffter]

This realization has nothing to do with my age, nor my physical condition, but everything to do with "almost responses" to threads complaining about tool or machine problems. So far I have resisted the temptation, but one of these days the old curmudgeon in me will come out and I'll post this response:

"Stop whining. You have no brains, and even less understanding of anything mechanical. Its time to sell your tools and give up woodworking, for something like stamp collecting!" My apologies to any Philatelists out there.

Maybe I can blame it on seasonal affective disorder or the Arctic Vortex.

[Doug Herzberg]

Alan, your post sounds like those tech support jokes I see all the time. Keep resisting. This forum is great for people just starting out and people moving into a new specialty or thinking about doing so. I've been the idiot a few times and occasionally I think I have something to offer. It helps me to keep in mind that a lot of schools don't have shop class these days, either because of budget concerns or fear of liability claims. Beginners can only learn so much watching the DIY TV shows and YouTube videos, then they need to ask a question. Better they ask than injure themselves.

I had to look up Philatelist, so I learned something today.

[Charles Coolidge]

I'm old enough to have watched the so called experts screw it up nearly as often as the noobs.

[Matt Day]

I'm in the same boat Alan. I write quite a few emails and posts that I never hit the send/submit button!

[Alan Schaffter]

I know. I've restrained myself and probably will continue to do so. Thinking more about it, it is not so much the newbies as the folks that want a quick answer, often to a issue that may be complex, but have made no effort to do research on their own, here or on the web in general. When I was a newbie, still am in many regards, I tried to research on my own first so I wouldn't sound like a total newbie and also so I had a better chance of telling when someone was blowing smoke and didn't know any more than I. Oh, well. Time to move on.

[John M Wilson]

I must be getting old too...


I've restrained myself and probably will continue to do so.

The ones that have me "almost replying" are the issues that go something like this:

OP: "I'm trying to decide between option #1 and option #2. What do you guys think?"
1st Reply: "Definitely go with #2. I did #1 and it was terrible."
2nd Reply: "#2 is best. I've worked in the industry for 30 years, and tried them all, and now I always go with #2."
OP: "Yeah, I know, but I heard this obscure reason for #1."
3rd Reply: "Here's a technically correct and well documented essay showing that #2 is better."
OP: "I don't think you understand... that can't be... my sister's boyfriend's grandmother's dog says #1 is best."

My unsent reply: IF YOU KNEW ALL ALONG WHAT YOU WANTED TO DO, WHY DID YOU ASK?

But then I calm down, and sit back to watch the controversy smolder on for another 30 posts or so...:cool:

But if I were really restrained, I wouldn't have sent this message! :D

[Rich Riddle]

Alan, take it from a psychologist.....you can't fix stupid. If you have an argument with an idiot, there is more than one idiot in the argument.

[Richard Coers]

Excellent post Alan. Unfortunately, I hit the send button too often. My two favorites; I'm selling my table saw so I can build cabinets with a track saw and a bandsaw. Pretty much two machines never seen in a professional cabinet shop. Second favorite; "help me spend my money". My response has always wanted to be, send it to me, I accept PayPal.

[Ron Kellison]

Rule #1: Never get into an argument with an idiot. They never know when they've lost!


Alan, take it from a psychologist.....you can't fix stupid. If you have an argument with an idiot, there is more than one idiot in the argument.

[Ray Newman]

“…it is not so much the newbies as the folks that want a quick answer, often to a issue that may be complex, but have made no effort to do research on their own, here or on the web in general.”
--Alan Schaffter


Alan: I understand completely and agree. I shoot original and reproduction Black Powder cartridge rifles from the latter part of the 19th century. And I see the same thing. Several times I have spent an hour or so, sometimes longer, verbally explaining or writing extensive personal messages about loading with Black Powder, casting bullets, sight adjustment, etc., to a shooter only to be told “Well that’s not the way ol’ lead arse on Bullshi**ers. com says how to do it.” It’s gotten to the point where I now give very little advice or help.

[Chris Fournier]

You're not that old if you are blaming your behaviour or psyche on an "Arctic vortex". Hell it's just cold outside junior! We call it winter. You have miles to go before you sleep!

[johnny means]

Rage! Rage! Against the dying of the light.

[Chris Fournier]

The days are getting longer now Johnny. Phew.

[Michael Mahan]

Rule #1: Never get into an argument with an idiot. They never know when they've lost!



never argue with person who is a lower level than you , because then you have to sink to their level & they then beat you by being more experienced at being stupid . ;)

[Larry Edgerton]

My favorite is "Post a picture, I am either too stupid or lazy to take the time to understand the explanation you just took thirty minutes to type"

There are reasons that I periodically disapear.

Larry

[Harold Burrell]

My favorite is "Post a picture, I am either too stupid or lazy to take the time to understand the explanation you just took thirty minutes to type"

There are reasons that I periodically disapear.

Larry

Really? I need pictures. In fact, I don't even read people's posts who do not have avatars. ;)

[Mike Wilkins]

That is why I don't respond very often to posts. They are all learning opportunities; some more so than others. I too blame it on age.
By the way; I need to look you up the next time I am in 'Little Washington'. I am just up the road. I would love to see that wall cabinet in person.

[Mark Bolton]

To me the sad part about lazy researchers is they don't seem to comprehend how much you learn doing the research. You wind up on tangents learning about things which don't even pertain to your original research. This is of course elementary school 101 but for some reason this medium, and I feel many people having a desire to chatter rather than sit alone researching, seems to void those elementary school lessons we all learned.

Some of my pet peeves are those who somehow state they know the answers and or have already come to their conclusion but just want to kick it around anyway. In the end they only wanted to hear the answer they were looking for in the first place.

As far as I am from self censoring, I am WAY closer/better than I was many years ago.

It's a challenge but I find the instant I know that this is the case for the post, I move on and don't even waste my time.

[Jeff Duncan]

I feel where your coming from and have bit my tongue on more than one occasion. I now skim though and read the posts that I think I may be able to contribute to or possibly learn from. I look at it this way, there's plenty of guys on here who can help out with which saw to buy, or how do I do this basic technique. So there's nothing I can really add of value to the thread and as such I pass them right by. This allows me to skip the majority of threads so I can spend a little more time on the ones more suitable to my experience…..or lack thereof;)

I will say that SMC is really a good place to hang out overall. There is another forum I won't name that I check in on once in a while, there's so much nonsense being spouted there though it gets old real fast. Anytime you raise a point that goes against the "packs" common knowledge it becomes a pissing match. Funny thing is a lot of them badmouth SMC, (probably b/c they're not allowed to rant on with no basis in reality here?). When you start arguing with people who learned everything they know on online forums…..well it's just not a productive thing:o

JeffD

[Mark Wooden]

I'm getting older and too damn grumpy to put up with it. what really frosts my a** is when a self taught, of narrow experience and self-proclaimed "pro" discounts hard won experience and knowledge. Can't tell you how many times I've been told that techniques from driving a nail with a hammer, coping by hand with a coping saw to jointing stock flat, straight and square were un-necessary, slow or just plain dumb. And I've chewed a few of these clowns out in person. Sucks to be an anachronism in your own lifetime.

But then again- I did get a jointer dirt cheap from a "cabinetmaker" who told me he had "no need" for a jointer in his shop. ;)

[Jason White]

While I sometimes feel the way you do, I usually bite my tongue because the only way for some newbies to gain mechanical knowledge is by asking for advice from old curmudgeons like yourself.

;)


This realization has nothing to do with my age, nor my physical condition, but everything to do with "almost responses" to threads complaining about tool or machine problems. So far I have resisted the temptation, but one of these days the old curmudgeon in me will come out and I'll post this response:

"Stop whining. You have no brains, and even less understanding of anything mechanical. Its time to sell your tools and give up woodworking, for something like stamp collecting!" My apologies to any Philatelists out there.

Maybe I can blame it on seasonal affective disorder or the Arctic Vortex.

[Mark Bolton]

I did get a jointer dirt cheap from a "cabinetmaker" who told me he had "no need" for a jointer in his shop. ;)

Pretty common, makes for a great score for you! Depends a lot on what type work a shop does but when we are building cabs the jointer virtually never gets used. Maybe to clean up saw marks here and there but even thats rare.

[Jim Andrew]

Personally, I think I'm enjoying getting old. Don't have to struggle with payments, or meeting deadlines. My farm and my shop are my big concerns, grandkids are my little friends. Life is good.

[Jim Rimmer]

I agree with Jeff Duncan, there are lots of experts on here that can provide really good advice on specific topics so i usually keep quiet for 2 reasons: the experts that know more than I do and have more experience; and if the OP won't listen to them, why would he listen to me.

I also get peeved at the folks who have heir won agenda and give the OP an answer that doesn't address his question. Neanders, Festoolers, SawStoppers, for example, just to name a few. I have nothing against any of those folks but if someone asks what the best dovetail jig is for $XXX, he doesn't wnat to hear that he should cut them by hand.

[Alan Schaffter]

That is why I don't respond very often to posts. They are all learning opportunities; some more so than others. I too blame it on age.
By the way; I need to look you up the next time I am in 'Little Washington'. I am just up the road. I would love to see that wall cabinet in person.

Stop by anytime, I enjoy giving 25 cent tours! Look my up in the phone book and call just to be sure I'll be home- you know retired folk hop in the car at a moment's notice.

[Alan Schaffter]

Jeff, that has been my approach.

One topic that really gets me are those on electrical topics- post by newbies who have no knowledge whatsoever about things electrical to EE's and electricians. Post and recommendations on those threads are all over the place, but some are downright dangerous (or deadly) and they assume the OP will correctly follow the directions. That is not to say us old hands can't get bit by Mr Watt every now and then. But I've been tinkering with electronics and electricity for most of my life, have learned a lot though schooling, reading, and doing, so if I get bit it is usually because I was careless or taking a short cut. It scares me when I think about someone with little or no background attempting the same stuff.

Jim A, I don't think I'm enjoying getting "old" much, but sure am having a blast and enjoying "retirement" doing what I am doing, especially, Jim R, with things like the best box joint jig on the market and my other little doohickey! :D :D

[Mel Fulks]

This seems a good place to add that sometimes we don't hear how some interesting problems are finally solved. Some things even with good advise , require some research , drawings ,price quotes,etc. But regardless of how long that takes ,it's good to know what was done.

[Paul McGaha]

It's true that the posts on electrical threads can go all over the place.

Electrical threads can turn hostile too.

Comes down to the people making the posts I guess.

PHM

[Jeff Duncan]

Yup, I generally avoid the electrical threads as well unless it's something simple like maybe a question about 3 phase equipment and no one else has answered.

I learned just enough to be dangerous by watching over the shoulders of electricians over the years. I've wired my own shops for years and have no worries doing so, but I don't do high voltage either. Single phase and 220v 3 phase only. I'm just smart enough to know I don't want to be telling someone else how to wire.

JeffD……..whose also been "bitten" while being careless and it's never a fun experience:(

[Jim Matthews]

It must be nice to have seen it all, done it all, and never made any mistakes along the way.

Your absence isn't missed by us beginners.

Fortunately, real pros like George Wilson chime in when we're stuck, which is often at the onset.

[Mark Bolton]

It must be nice to have seen it all, done it all, and never made any mistakes along the way.

Your absence isn't missed by us beginners.

Fortunately, real pros like George Wilson chime in when we're stuck, which is often at the onset.

Pretty rich,
I highly doubt any poster believes they have done it all and made no mistakes though it can easily be heard that way by any individual who only wants to hear the answer they want to hear.

I think a major "miss" here, as well as other places, is there is an unbalanced mix of people who have to look at this work for profit, and those who look at it for fun and enjoyment. I can't count the times I have learned immensely from someone looking at the process from a complete non profit point of view, yet there is no way in the hot place that I could count the times people want to go overboard because they think it costs them nothing merely because it's a hobby.

Perhaps when I was 14 or 15 I learned two things. If you want to figure out how to do something, shut your mouth and watch a guy who does it every day. Keep your trap shut and suck him dry. Second thing was, if you watch someone doing something and it looks easy? It's likely the hardest thing you'll ever do.

It seems many never catch on to these things and you see 50 year olds watch a crew finish drywall, lay block, cut dovetails, spray, and they think "I got it!"

I've watched thousands of block, sheets, and gallons, and still realize I'm a noob.

[Michael Mahan]

Pretty rich,
I highly doubt any poster believes they have done it all and made no mistakes though it can easily be heard that way by any individual who only wants to hear the answer they want to hear.

I think a major "miss" here, as well as other places, is there is an unbalanced mix of people who have to look at this work for profit, and those who look at it for fun and enjoyment. I can't count the times I have learned immensely from someone looking at the process from a complete non profit point of view, yet there is no way in the hot place that I could count the times people want to go overboard because they think it costs them nothing merely because it's a hobby.

Perhaps when I was 14 or 15 I learned two things. If you want to figure out how to do something, shut your mouth and watch a guy who does it every day. Keep your trap shut and suck him dry. Second thing was, if you watch someone doing something and it looks easy? It's likely the hardest thing you'll ever do.

It seems many never catch on to these things and you see 50 year olds watch a crew finish drywall, lay block, cut dovetails, spray, and they think "I got it!"

I've watched thousands of block, sheets, and gallons, and still realize I'm a noob.+1
practice , practice , practice , mistakes you actually learn from then more practice , practice , practice , then you start to learn what you need to learn the right way & again more practice , practice , practice .
How many guys buy a shop full of dream equipment to not do the above & then sell the whole lot a year later :) that's where good deals on barely used tools , machines come from :p

[Alan Schaffter]

But I hate doing drywall and I'm not good at it either!!!

[Lornie McCullough]

Alan, I guess I'm getting old, too.

Two responses that I 'almost post' but hold myself back from posting:

(1) " If the safety of your fingers and hands depends upon a spinning blade stopping before you touch it, then maybe working with spinning knives and cutters is not for you. Think first. Keep your hands far enough away from any cutter such that they cannot be pulled into it."

(2) " If you really want to know about dust collection, read Bill Pentz website. Read it all. Read it twice. Read it until you understand why he has reached his conclusions. I don't know anywhere on the web that has explained it better."

Please remember I did NOT post these things. I'm not interested in argueing.

To quote a very wise Creeker: " I am glad it is my shop I am responsible for."